My middle child is driving me nuts.

[LisaKinVA]

He's always been my difficult child. That obstinate one, who feels deeply, is passionate, dramatic, and can be an absolute joy, when he's not being an absolute pain.

 

When he screws up, he knows it.  And then he turns all of that frustration on himself and delves headlong into an un-communicative funk.  He will literally just lie down on the ground and be completely non-responsive.  He pulled this at the last swim meet and it took four of us (2 coaches, me and his brother) nearly 40 minutes to pull him out of it and get him in line for his next race (it took 6 people 20 minutes to find him first).

 

Other times, he just blows up -- and while he wouldn't dare say things like, "No, I'm not doing that" to his father or I, he's said it to his scout leaders in front of other scouts.  He pouts, he whines, and goes to the bathroom for 3 hours to hide.  He's a poor sport (gets mad when he loses, lords it over others when he wins). This is my child who "ran away" one morning, and will cry about how everyone would be better off if he were never born, weren't here, etc.

 

I've had these feelings growing up.  I know the feeling of not having friends, of feeling completely alone in my own family, of wanting to run away, etc.  But, at my worst, I was always able to bring myself out of it, and become good at some things (swimming, track, music, school).  I was never popular.  Moving and changing schools has a way of doing that.  

 

But, I'm at a loss.  He's going to be 13, and it feels like he's going on SIX.  

 

Zero motivation to do anything. Zero motivation to even try.  If it's not easy (in other words, he's automatially good at it), he doesn't want to try or practice.  If he is really good at it (it's too easy), it's boring, and he already knows how.

 

Please...help me.

[G5052]

Saying this gently, you need to consider therapy for him. Finding a therapist that works with your values and with him isn't easy, but it sound like you need a third party here. 

[JFSinIL]

Does sound as if he would benefit from being seen professionally, he sounds very unhappy, and obviously it is affecting the rest of you, too.

[LisaKinVA]

He's not always unhappy. He's mostly a happy kid.  But when he IS unhappy (whether it's because he feels left out, or he did something dumb...like missing his relay because he was playing a video game and missed the call for the clerk, so his whole relay team is now mad at him because they weren't allowed to swim), he's monumentally unhappy.  Once we got him to do the *only* thing that would have any chance of making him feel better (as in, get clerked, and swim the best race he's ever swum to earn points to the team and not just SAY he was sorry, SHOW he was sorry by his actions), he turned it around...but it was an hour of agony for me (first, not knowing where he was, and knowing he was off hiding somewhere being non-responsive, then getting him where he needed to be so we could deal with the emotional issues).

 

I'm his mother, I've been doing this for nearly 13 years now.  I am probably the one person who both gets him and knows how to pull him out of whatever funk he is in.  But, I can't always be there (like this last weekend at a scout camp).

 

He's always struggled with appropriate responses. When he was really little, if a kid poked him (hard), he'd full-on punch him VERY hard.  If he was hurt (a little, make most kids say "ow, wince and maybe tear up), you would swear the child had broken his arm in 3 places and bones were protruding based upon the tears (and snot) that was coming out of his face.  If someone is mean to him (and yeah, he's been bullied), he can become very angry (not volatile -- but angry, then upset, and then enter the funk).  

 

We successfully (for the most part) helped him learn more appropriate responses to most things.  But these emotional battles are so much more difficult.  And, I'm tired.  Honestly, to those who have difficult girls, my son will give your girls a run for their money.

 

When he's good, he's quite an impressive soul.  He's made an impression on the high school instructors he's met.  He's a favorite for watching younger kids, because he really interacts with them, and the younger kids just LOVE him. He is loved by the parents of Aspies and some highly-functioning autistic kids -- because he just accepts pretty much everyone at face value.  He doesn't hold grudges.  And he does try. He's impressed many an adult because of his wit, and his ability to hold very weighty conversations.

 

But the flip side...oh dear.  

 

He was excited about this weekend's camping trip.  He's a Patrol Leader for the first time.  I'm trying to get him to understand that leading a patrol doesn't mean making all of the decisions and bossing others around.  That it doesn't mean getting his way.  That if one kid wants to make rice for dinner and the other kids say "okay" then he needs to get in there and help make rice for dinner.  If the grubmaster didn't go shopping, so they didn't have eggs for breakfast, or hot dogs to go with the buns -- what can we learn from this?  How do we make sure it doesn't happen next time.  How he can get other kids to listen to him...and when he gets upset he needs to go find an adult and tell them what is going on instead of stomping off or laying on the ground playing dead.  

[Bambam]

My personal rule of thumb for when to suggest to people that they need to seek professional help is when the child cannot do things that most kids can do at that age - or when their responses are so inappropriate that it leads to problems as well. At 13, I wouldn't expect you to need multiple people to help pull you out of your funk. I think he needs some skills (or medicine, sometimes that is appropriate, I say this because many seem to find the very idea of medication horrible, but sometimes it is necessary, I have no idea in your case) that he currently doesn't have. It sounds to me like the behaviors, although not continuous, are harming his ability to function properly in the real world. And that does have an impact - both on other's perspective of him as well his confidence in dealing with future issues. He needs help to break the cycle of poor responses and develop coping strategies and start building a series of successful responses. 

[Annie G]

 

 

When he screws up, he knows it.  And then he turns all of that frustration on himself and delves headlong into an un-communicative funk.  He will literally just lie down on the ground and be completely non-responsive.  He pulled this at the last swim meet and it took four of us (2 coaches, me and his brother) nearly 40 minutes to pull him out of it and get him in line for his next race (it took 6 people 20 minutes to find him first).

 

 

When I first read this, I kind of laughed and thought he sounds like Cameron from Ferris Bueller. And then I stopped laughing because while it was mildly funny in the movie, in real life that's a real problem. One you want to nip in the bud. But I don't know what that even looks like- is it a case where he needs time to mature?  Does it mean he needs professional help? I have no idea. 

 

I would focus on what could have been done to prevent the problem- he was at a swim meet to swim, not play video games. Yeah, there is lots of downtime but his teammates had downtime and they managed to be ready for the race.  So if he steps up his maturity he might eliminate many of these kinds of episodes...but he still has to learn to deal with it when he does make true mistakes. We all make mistakes but how we react to them...how we handle adversity...is key.

[JFSinIL]

Bambam nailed it. He needs outside help. You are perhaps too close to the situation to clearly see how much he does need help from a trained professional - to learn coping skills, true, but also possibly medication IF a medical professional deems it worth a trial. The older he gets,the harder it will be for you and the folks out in the real world to deal with his lack of coping skills. As you noted yourself re: swim meet - you will not always be there. Nor should you need to be as he enters the teen years (which will fly by). Good luck, and not trying to come down hard on you, you are a GREAT mom and this is in no way a reflection on either your parenting skills or the young man himself, as I get a feeling he simply can not help it (possible brain chemistry hiccup or touch of Aspergers, who knows.)

Edited February 22, 2016 by JFSinIL

[Amy in NH]

It sounds like he is lacking "resilience", which is a buzzword in education because it's related to dropout. There is a lot of advice if you Google "help kids learn resilience"

[Haiku]

It sounds like his lack of coping skills is far outside the norm for a kid his age. He's pulling preschool-like tantrums. I agree with others that finding a therapist/having him evaluated is a good idea.

 

I'd also stop working so hard to pull him out of a funk. If he wants to hide and be funkish, fine. If he misses out because of that, not your problem. It's time for him to start taking some ownership and stop depending on other to twist themselves into pretzels for him.

 

My child was in counseling for several years when she was a teen (and also on medication), so I have some experience with this.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My aspie was like this at this age.  We spent a lot of time role playing possible scenarios and the appropriate responses to them.  I also spent a lot of time managing his behavior BEFORE the shutting down.  Still a lot of work, but it is a lot less drama to have mom doing the work of making sure he is available for his relay, than to have to rely on a group of people to search for him and to pull him out of it after he has missed the call.   I think it is the parent's responsibility to do that extra work rather than to put it on the team. 

[purplejackmama]

I have no advice for you, but wanted to give you a virtual hug. That sounds exhausting for my low patience self. I hope you find a way to help him, he sounds like such a great kid with a few road bumps to navigate through. :)

[FriedClams]

What is the payoff for the drama? A bunch of coaches and mom running to your aid sounds like payoff. I might spend some time seeing what your doing to feed in to the situation, and see if altering that makes a difference. Maybe you not reacting, encouraging, building, etc might help. In your example, I'd have stayed through the end of a meet, but let the coaches coach - and correct/discipline him later as necessary if he missed a heat. They can counsel on attitude, resilience, and team work. Gently - are you stepping in too quickly to cushion and build him up?

 

I'd also look into scouts or another man-led activity without mom around (even if he's not 100% for it). Boys react VERY differently with mom nearby and men are less gentle when teaching resilience. They also know, as men, how important it is and can impart that wisdom ina way mom cannot.

Edited February 22, 2016 by FriedClams

[Guest]

Sounds like a sensitive, volatile kid.... I'm not sure what help a pro could give, but learning resilience is a good thing to focus on, I agree. Big hugs here!

[GinaPagnato]

Sounds exhausting!

 

I agree with others who've suggested having him speak with a counselor. 13 is a tough age anyway, what with hormones running amuck. Having said that, he's definitely not behaving "normally" for a kid that age...as you were describing him I was remembering a certain wonderful little 7 year old boy I know and love who used to do many of the same things. *BUT* he was 7, and he outgrew it. Your guy may benefit from talking through how he handles these emotions with someone other than you.

 

And remember, nobody is saying he's a mess! I totally hear you when you talk about how wonderful he normally is, and that these are just behaviors confined to certain episodes. The thing is, much of life entails these difficult situations, and at his age he truly needs to learn how to navigate them in an age-appropriate way. What you don't want to have happen is that he begins to lose any potential friendships because of his meltdowns. Those will be increasingly hard for other kids to overlook as they all grow older. You've got nothing to lose by having him speak with a counselor. Good luck!

[LisaKinVA]

Therapy would be nice, but here where we are stationed, it is not available. There is family counseling...if you are active duty. There is help for sexual assault, domestic violence, and work related counseling...nothing for kids. When I wanted to deal with dd's issues with food, we learned a lot about what we have access to. If something is serious, you get an emergency medical relocation for the dependents. This is not life threatening (he is not at risk for harming himself or anyone else). The issues are also not significant enough for the school to be involved in any way. We are on our own.

He has been much better here in Italy making more friends than he was stateside.

 

The swimming incident was once out of 9 meets. I work on deck every meet. I am not hovering around or rushing to save him. I did not intervene when he was rightly chastised. I gave him time to stew. But this was a huge mistake for him. It was something I had warned him about. He knew it was huge (our Divisional Championships, his friends). He felt it deeply. Had I been in a position to go find him, it would not have taken as long. But I couldn't leave. The longer he stewed, the deeper he spiraled. It took me under 10 minutes to deal with him. But I know how to talk to him to get him where he needs to be mentally. I'm pretty certain he won't do it again. He usually learns from his mistakes. I just wish he could better apply lessons from one situation to another. I could be wrong, but I don't believe it's attention seeking behavior, because he only spirals when he's down on himself, because of something he did that he knows was wrong.

 

He is in scouts. He wants to be there. There is a lot of coaching and role playing we can do there to help him with confrontations and disagreements with other scouts. But he also needs to learn when to ask for help in dealing with things.

 

I do feel hormones are at play, because unlike the handful of minor things, and maybe one or two major things a year we are seeing an increase in the number and degree of instances. He grew 5 inches since September, his voice is changing, and there are other noticeable physical things happening.

 

FWIW, I am not the soft, gentle mom. I am not the fun parent. I am the suck it up parent. I am the life is tough, and only going to get more difficult parent. I don't believe in rescuing my kids from consequences. I do believe in recognising feelings, and helping my kids learn how to deal with them appropriately.

 

He also stopped writing in his journal (which helped), and has been a pain about taking his supplements, which he also admits help.

 

I do need to come up with ways to help him make better decisions in the moment. We offer lots of praise and positive reinforcement when he does good things (completing difficult tasks, cleaning his room, swimming the best race of his life...caring for the younger kids, being responsible and on time when he has to take the bus on a schedule, doing an excellent job on an assignment at the high school, etc.)

He loves hearing about his positive attributes, and he has many.

 

I need some constructive things we can implement, a book or something to look for guidance, because we do not have access to therapy here.

[Guest]

I didn't 'like' your post, but I feel for you in the difficulties. He sounds like he is having a lot of things factoring in right now that might be making coping or flexibility harder :(

Edited February 22, 2016 by Arctic Mama

[freesia]

Since you don't have access to counselling, I would recommend getting this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/076792083X?keywords=panic%20attacks&qid=1456168433&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1

and maybe the accompanying workbook.

 

It is full of CBT techniques that would really help him. The crux is the messages that he is giving himself when he messes up. He needs to fix his thinking and responses--to find healthier ways to handle the feelings and to correct his wrong ways of thinking. I don't think I'm saying this clearly (I have one kid practicing TKD, another studying to music and a husband who keeps sharing his book and-oh--the six yo who wants me to sew her stuffed lizard).

 

We are a very dramatic family full of perfectionists here and the techniques in the above book have been the best at helping me guide us to better/healthier responses.

 

I also love this series:http://www.amazon.com/What-When-You-Worry-Much/dp/1591473144/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1456168771&sr=8-3&keywords=what+to+do+when+your+temper+flares

but he *may* be too old for it. I like it bc you can sit with the child and work through the activities and then you have a common language.

Edited February 22, 2016 by freesia

[Tess in the Burbs]

I have one of these kids.  And while others have suggested therapy, my kid does NOT want to talk to anyone else.  Just suggesting it made him extremely upset, like I violated some trust between us to take it outside our safe family situation.  He knows that is an option for the future if his coping doesn't stay pretty near to my expectations.  Just last night I had to walk him through an apology.  He didn't understand why he needed to apologize.  I had to explain WHY he needed to do it, and HOW to do it correctly, not just say 'sorry'.  He felt it was forced, but honestly, it wasn't about an apology at that point, more of teaching him why it's important to do it when you wrong someone.  He's super moody and has been for as long as I can remember.  Coping skills.  It's what I am focusing on.  He did do a weekend away with his scout group last summer.  Apparently there was a team event and the leader asked my son how to solve it.  He couldn't.  And tears were there.  I hated hearing about it later.  But I know it was a good lesson in how to handle stress/fear.  This is my kid who doesn't want to do anything.  So I am forcing more group activities on him.  It doesn't help his dad had to step up to take over the scout thing.  I really think more time away from his safe family unit would benefit him.  In how to cope with others.  Yes, this is the kid who refused to do things when he really needed to do them.  Yes, this is the kid who always has some angry moment when on vacation b/c we actually want to do something.  And every time at home we go do something without him he regrets it.  At some point I think he will figure out to just come along even if at that moment it's not what he wants.  

 

Mine is 14 now.  I do see glimpses of maturity.  I do see glimpses of a kid who has it figured out, who can cope in a hard situation.  But yes, we still have mistakes.  I figure it this way...I make mistakes as a mom from time to time.  I have to give my boy grace and mercy as well.  It is getting better.  Just very slowly.  Not my ideal pace.  But it is better in some areas.  School, not so much.  I do wish he was more outgoing and less sensitive.  But every once in awhile I get another adult tell me how awesome he is.  How kind is he.  How he notices others and does everything he can to make things fair for all.  And he was given a job at church that he has totally taken on without any help or nudging from me.  The adults involved all praise him.  

 

Which only makes me realize less time with me may be better for him in the long run.  We have been working together on a school project all weekend for an online class.  He has been so mature about the situation.  Willing to accept help, but still try to learn as fast as possible so he can do more of it.  He gets mad sometimes, but recovery is quicker than in the past.  I don't see him getting overwhelmed to the point it ruins the whole day.  He can calm down quicker now.  Realize his mistakes.  

 

If mine would go to counseling we would have done it.  I can't make him.  I can't force him. Just mentioning it makes him livid.  So we are learning to cope.  Showing each other grace when we aren't our ideal selves. And it's all of us.  He just seems off kilter more than we are.  But like last night, not making it a big deal of the wrong behavior, but more a learning session on how to act the next time this happens...well, it was good for us all to remember how to cope and react to hard situations. 

 

I will say 14 is going better than 13.  12/13 was extremely awful.  I see progress.  Without counseling.  Like I said, if he were open to it, we would. But he's not.  So we are learning to cope together through the hard stuff.  ((HUGS))  You are so not alone in this.  

 

 

[zoobie]

Counseling may be available via Skype. It sounds like anxiety could be at the base of things.

[fairfarmhand]

Have you read the Explosive Child? It helped me immsely/

[Forget-Me-Not]

Just a thought. Do you think he's getting something out of having so many people find him/talk to him/encourage him/etc.? I am in no way in your shoes or in your house, but consider carefully if at some point you might be enabling this behavior. For example, at the swim meet, what would have happened if you'd said, "Gee I'm sorry you didn't perform as well as you'd like" and then walked away and let him deal with the natural consequences of missing his next race and whatever that entailed (letting his team down, failure to qualify for future events, whatever).

 

Maybe it's time to step away and give him some space to deal with these fallouts on his own. If he hides out and refuses to do things, he doesn't get the positive results, whatever they may be. This may happen naturally or you may occasionally have to say, "no I'm sorry since you didn't do X, then Y isn't going to happen."

Edited February 22, 2016 by Forget-me-not

[LisaKinVA]

Just a thought. Do you think he's getting something out of having so many people find him/talk to him/encourage him/etc.? I am in no way in your shoes or in your house, but consider carefully if at some point you might be enabling this behavior. For example, at the swim meet, what would have happened if you'd said, "Gee I'm sorry you didn't perform as well as you'd like" and then walked away and let him deal with the natural consequences of missing his next race and whatever that entailed (letting his team down, failure to qualify for future events, whatever).

 

Maybe it's time to step away and give him some space to deal with these fallouts on his own. If he hides out and refuses to do things, he doesn't get the positive results, whatever they may be. This may happen naturally or you may occasionally have to say, "no I'm sorry since you didn't do X, then Y isn't going to happen."

 

I'm going with a big nope here.  This is the first -- and only time -- something like this has occurred.  Most of the time these things happen at home -- and I don't coddle.  Usually, he's sent to his room to write in his journal, calm down, sleep, whatever.  After about 30 minutes, I'll check on him -- ask if he needs to talk, and if he's ready to come down and do whatever it is he was supposed to do.  Sometimes he wants to talk.  Sometimes he's not ready to come down, sometimes I make him come down (for example, there is work to be done and everyone else is doing their chores, his aren't going away by staying in his room). The main response to anything on the minor end has always been essentially, "That's the breaks, kid...you don't want to participate, you can go over there and wait until we're done."  "That's fine kid, you don't want to do X, well that means you can't do Y."

 

The only reason THAT many people were looking for him was because *I* was on-deck working, and I *knew* he had disappeared.  He was embarrassed, chagrined, and ashamed.  He did not want to be found (He was actually just lying on a couch under his towel quietly crying -- I bet several people had walked right past him but didn't realize it was him, because he wouldn't answer and they didn't know he was under the towel).  The head coach talked to him first, because she had been the one to RIGHTLY rip him a new one for missing the relay.  I felt THAT was important because he needed to know FIRST that she knew he could do better, and that she didn't hate him.  The male coach (with a child younger, but similar to mine spoke to him next), because I was working. Being a coach, he gave my son an "out" (asked him if he wanted to do X).  Frankly, I was having none of it, and as soon as the Freestyle events started, and I could get coverage, I went to speak with him.  In my world, there is no quit.  I told him he was right to feel bad about what he did, but that the only way he was going to feel better, and the ONLY way he could try to make it up to the team was to get out there and swim.  He could tell the coach and friends he was sorry all he wanted, but that ACTIONS were needed, and that meant swimming the race of his life.  Quitting and hiding would only punish the team, because the team would lose any points he'd earn -- and that wasn't being a good teammate.  Instead of working to make the situation better, he would be making the situation worse.  He cried about how he didn't know how he felt, and I told him that it was a bunch of bologna, he was crying in public.  Everyone can see how he feels.  I asked him if he knew the first thing you're taught after you fall off a horse was, he said "no."  I said, it's to get up, brush yourself off and get right back on the horse.  You know why?  Because the longer you stay off the horse, the more afraid of falling off again you become.  You made a mistake.  It was bad.  Everyone knows it.  But the way you recover from that mistake isn't to make another one and quit on your team -- it's to get your cap and goggles on, get back in line and get on those blocks and swim.

 

It worked, he swam.  He swam an incredible race.  After that race he apologized again to his teammates and his coaches.  He was good the rest of the time.  

 

At scouts, when he went off and pouted, they just left him there to pout.  He doesn't get tons of attention or anything from these behaviors.  No one is running up and hugging on him and saying "poor baby."  

 

There was one other incident (on the bus, he blew up at his big brother -- then "ran away" on the base) about 18 months ago.  I wasn't there, my oldest was.  I had him report that he was missing, and per-protocol, they shut down the base, and literally *everyone* was looking for him.  Phone trees were set off, active duty personnel everywhere, both mall and base security looking for him.  A couple of MPs found him and he was held at the station until we could get there.  He was incredibly embarrassed and apologetic.  

 

If he truly "loved" the attention he gets from these activities he'd do them MORE often, in MORE public ways -- I mean, what more could an attention-seeking kid want than to have an entire military base on lock down and every active-duty person in a chain of command on the base looking for YOU.  Not my kid.  So not my kid.

 

I went and looked up some things on resiliency -- and found myself nodding along.  He does need some positive "self talk."  (Feeling Good?) I've thought about that before.  I'm going to look into that a bit more.