Ethics question

[luuknam]

So, my wife wants to go to some sort of computer programming conference that's 2 days and costs like $1000 to attend (not including travel and accommodations). We're not rich; we're lower middle class, so that's a lot of money. But, there is a scholarship that women can apply for. Is it ethical for her to apply? She's a male-to-female transwoman who transitioned 8 years ago, and almost nobody knows she's trans so coworkers/potential employers treat her as if she was born female. Personally, I think it's questionable, since she lived with male privilege for 31 years (she didn't get a tech job until 4 years ago though, but has been programming since she was 10yo, way back in the 80's). If you're both in the tech industry AND part of the LGBT community you get to vote twice.

 

Is it okay for her to apply for that scholarship?

[Daria]

Weird.

 

I chose I am not for the top 2 and then its okay. But I show up as zero votes for its okay.

[Daria]

I should add that I am assuming that the question is, is it OK for transwomen to apply. Then the answer is yes.

 

If you are asking of it's ok for someone who could afford it but for whom it would be a stretch ... Then I would ask how much of stretch, and whether the scholarship has a mission of attracting women to the field, or if it aimed at helping people who otherwise couldn't afford it.

[luuknam]

I should add that I am assuming that the question is, is it OK for transwomen to apply. Then the answer is yes.

 

If you are asking of it's ok for someone who could afford it but for whom it would be a stretch ... Then I would ask how much of stretch, and whether the scholarship has a mission of attracting women to the field, or if it aimed at helping people who otherwise couldn't afford it.

 

Yes, it's about the trans part, not about the financial part.

[regentrude]

This poll does not work; it requires me to answer every question which is impossible.

 

I vote it is OK. I don't know much about trans issues, but anything that comes up always emphasizes that the person IS of their chosen gender. So, she IS a woman - and thus eligible for the scholarship.

 

The real ethics question would be whether it is right to discriminate based on gender by offering only women this scholarship.

 

Edited February 20, 2016 by regentrude

[hjffkj]

Hmm I'm in niether communities but it seems wrong because she did have male privilege for so long and this types of scholarships were set up because of the inequalities. But at the same time she is a woman now and statistically at a disadvantage because of it. So I don't really know.

[luuknam]

This poll does not work; it requires me to answer every question which is impossible.

 

The real ethics question would be whether it is right to discriminate based on gender by offering only women this scholarship.

 

The last answer option for each question is that you're not in that group, so you should be able to pick that answer and be able to vote.

 

And yes, there is that other ethics issue, and I'm not a big fan of affirmative action kind of things like this, but that's definitely a topic for a different thread. I'd happily be rich enough to be able to afford to boycott gender-based scholarships. We're not that rich though; a scholarship would be the difference between being able to attend or not.

[justasque]

..she is a woman now and statistically at a disadvantage because of it....

I think you may be overthinking this.  She should apply.  She has disadvantages now because she is a woman.  If the conference is going to be helpful to her, as a woman in the tech field, then she is the target audience.  If there is someone else in the applicant pool who needs it more, you need to trust that the application process will give it to that person.

[Daria]

Is the mission of the scholarship to make up for inequity?

 

Or, is the mission to bring diversity to the tech industry, and the leadership within the industry.

 

Businesses benefit from a diverse workforce. When the creative talent and the customer service teams represent the customer base, the product is improved, the market share increases, and the profits go up.

 

I wouldn't assume that the people funding this scholarship are motivates to correct historical wrongs. I would guess their motivation is to increase diversity. Your wife brings that diversity.

[Barb_]

Who cares?

 

You're overthinking. Tell her to apply :)

[Kathryn]

Is the mission of the scholarship to make up for inequity?

 

Or, is the mission to bring diversity to the tech industry, and the leadership within the industry.

 

Businesses benefit from a diverse workforce. When the creative talent and the customer service teams represent the customer base, the product is improved, the market share increases, and the profits go up.

 

I wouldn't assume that the people funding this scholarship are motivates to correct historical wrongs. I would guess their motivation is to increase diversity. Your wife brings that diversity.

This.

[athomeontheprairie]

If, even after polling the hive, you still aren't sure, can you call and ask if she qualifies?

[zoobie]

Will she have to provide paperwork/documentation if she were to receive the scholarship, and does it reflect that she's "female"? Edited to explain quotes--if she says she's female, I don't care, but does her driver's license, etc. reflect that for official purposes? Quotes are to indicate a word choice on a form.

 

I would say yes it's fine because she is living and working as a female. She didn't throw on a dress to apply for the scholarship.

Edited February 20, 2016 by zoobie

[Tsuga]

It is ethical to apply. She's a woman. The transition from MTF or vice versa is so drastic that it is nearly impossible that anyone could be incentivized to make it for the sake of the benefit; most importantly it would take too long.

 

In addition, many women filter out of STEM not in high school, but in college, when your wife was not even studying tech. Even if she was a man at that time, that's when she'd have gotten her big advantage.

 

There are lots of STEM scholarships for everybody as well, and many of them go to men who had lots of advantages in secondary education and post-secondary education, simply by virtue of upperclassmen, TAs and professors being comfortable with long sessions in the labs. Anyway, that's what I experienced--my friends were invited to study sessions, I wasn't, and soon i got irritated and left science and went into philosophy which was also male-dominated but in which women were intentionally included.

 

So, I think she should go for it. I also agree with Daria: she brings diversity and a woman's point of view. She's been female for eight years so while she can't speak to my experience, she can speak to her own experience.

 

The only exception would be if it is for female-born persons only, or if she is required to talk about discrimination she faced during her secondary schooling; of course she should not lie.

[Tap]

I don't work in the tech industry.

 

I am not in the LBGT community perse, but I have several close family members who are. 

 

I am fine with it.  Honestly, I see qualifications like 'female', to be an effort to include people from that demographic.  I don't think it has anything to do with 'we want to help someone who was born with a brain that was exposed to certain hormones at birth.  I see it as 'we want to help someone who represents the female population to attend this event."

[Crimson Wife]

Biologically male and now living as a woman, yes. Biologically female and now living as a man, no. Remember the famous quote from Prof. Ben (born Barbara) Barres about being told his work is "so much better than your sister's" after the transition. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB115274744775305134

[Pen]

I find how the votes go depending on whether people are in tech industry, LGBT community, or neither interesting.  Tech has as of my reading no one neutral, but almost an even split ok to wrong. LGBT has no one thinking it is wrong and 80% finding it ok. And "neither" is all over the place, but with okay representing half of responses.

[Haiku]

She's a woman. The scholarship is for women. She should apply.

[JFSinIL]

She's a woman. The scholarship is for women. She should apply.

 

Exactly. 

[Spryte]

She's a woman. The scholarship is for women. She should apply.

Yes.

[gardenmom5]

are there a limited number of these 'scholarships' for women?

 

I'm not in the tech industry - but my daughter is.  she's a techie (**of a type I prefer not to disclose)  - completely surrounded by males.  if taking a preference as a woman (despite years of doing this type of tech as a man) would exclude a woman who has only done this as a woman (and yes - it is a disadvantage.), I think it would be unfair.

 

** she did her training with almost all guys.  when they were done - the trainer told the guy who scored highest  (by far to whomever was next) that he *only* outscored her because he had five years of experience she was brand new.

[AK_Mom4]

I'm female.  I'm in the tech industry.  I think it's fine for her to apply for the scholarship.

[Arcadia]

If it is for women working in tech, then she would be in the target group. She applied for her first tech job as a female after all.

 

I used to be in tech until I stop working. I am short and petite so on one hand I was never allowed to carry stuff and on the other hand guests mistake me for the secretary if my secretary is out for lunch. I was the only female engineer in that regional office. So there is differences in treatment based on perceived gender.

[Katy]

They want women to work in tech.  She is a woman.  I read somewhere recently that trans women especially do really well in tech.

 

I'm not sure I entirely buy into the check your privilege thing anyway, but even if I wholeheartedly did, she has never not been part of a group that is arguably more discriminated against than women.

 

I think she should GO FOR IT!

 

 

ETA:  I've read that many boot camp like scholarships are actually paid by major employers in the tech industry who want to hire women, not by the programs themselves.  She's not taking anything away from anyone by going for it.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Katy