Book a Week 2016 - BW7: be my valentine!

[mumto2]

Robin, Last December we had a conversation regarding planning for reading about India. I mentioned hunting for a Shukriyya recommendation that sounded wonderful but I couldn't remember beyond it had a pretty cover. Unlike many of you I am highly visual, my mom used to take me with her to used book shops to show her which Harlequins she had already read, I sorted by cover art.

 

I have continued my search and am relatively confident the author is M.M. Kaye. I think the book is The Far Pavilions but Shadow of the Moon is a close second. In honour of my search I am currently reading the first in her mystery series titled Death in Kashmir. Good so far and very different setting. I never associate skiing with India. Thus far (20%) the book has a bit of a Christie feel....may turn in to a locked room. Isolated ski chalet where murder is going to happy really soon. ;)

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1040250.M_M_Kaye

[Lady Florida.]

 

 

I also wanted to say that I was not arguing that one was better than the other or that one was right and the other was wrong. I don't feel that way and if it came across as such, I apologize. I kind of wish our culture had more spirituality and mysticism in it.

 

 

 

I didn't get the impression you thought one culture was better or right. Just that you had trouble understanding and taking to the Indian culture of the 20s and 50s. 

 

The beauty of reading (fiction) books is that everyone comes away with their own feelings about the characters and the story. There's no right or wrong in that.

[MaeFlowers]

I'm still lost in last week's thread, though I did see that you responded this week MaeFlowers.

 

 

 

Regarding the first part, while I don't like the way the Muslims are treated, it's important to understand that Hindu-Muslim friction goes way, way, back to the 7th or 8th century. Each has taken their turn oppressing the other though the Hindus seem to have come out on top. Though India has a secular constitution and government it's generally regarded as a Hindu country. I'm not condoning treatment just because "Well, they did it to us first". Just trying to point out there's a very long and complicated history there. 

 

It's important to remember too, that both books we're reading and discussing were written a long time ago, and one from the point of view of an Englishman. A sympathetic Englishman but still an Englishman. And it would be easy to say how disgusting it is to see the treatment of Indians by the British.

 

As to your last paragraph, what I've discovered by reading both of these books plus recently reading several books written by Africans (specifically Nigerians) is that people are people everywhere. Of course I knew that in theory, but reading stories from around the world shows how true it is. Parents worry about their adult children. Children disappoint parents and parents disappoint children. Siblings get along and don't get along. Some politicians want to serve the people they represent and some merely want to serve themselves. People are caught between the way things were and the modern world (just look at all the "computers/video games/smart phones will ruin us" threads here on WTM and you'll see that's still an issue). And on and on and on. People are people everywhere. They always have and always will be. I see more in these books to connect us than to separate us.

 

I don't see the religious aspects (superstition) being any different than Christianity or Judaism, which are our two largest ones. 

 

 

 

 

I'm having the same issue. In addition to A Suitable Boy and A Passage to India I started The Moor's Account for my IRL book club. I've put Swann's Way aside for now. If I would just pick one of the three to keep reading I'd probably finish it soon. Instead I keep going back and forth.

 

I recognize that the books were written quite a while ago but it doesn't make the reading any easier for me. It still find it frustrating even when I put it in historical perspective. I agree people are people but culture seems to affect the limits to which we express our worries, disappointments, etc. It sets norms for personal boundaries. My personal boundaries are relatively strong and, to me, there seems to be far looser personal boundaries in Indian culture.

 

In my last post I forgot to add current readings and my list for the year.

I am currently reading Welcome to Night Vale. I only read a few chapters last night as yesterday ended up being a busy day and really don't have much to say about it yet. I am still working my way through HotAW, reading writings of the church fathers online, and doing Bible study with dh when I can work those in. We are taking a break from school this week and am hoping to get more reading done. Mostly, I just want to tackle my storage closet. It is a huge mess and I really need it to be organized.

 

So far this year:

6. A Passage to India

5. Return of the King

4. The Two Towers

3. A Suitable Boy

2. A Pilgrim's Progress

1. Fellowship of the RIng

 

[Jane in NC]

As to your last paragraph, what I've discovered by reading both of these books plus recently reading several books written by Africans (specifically Nigerians) is that people are people everywhere. Of course I knew that in theory, but reading stories from around the world shows how true it is. Parents worry about their children, including their adult children. Children disappoint parents and parents disappoint children. Siblings get along and don't get along. Some politicians want to serve the people they represent and some merely want to serve themselves. People are caught between the way things were and the modern world (just look at all the "computers/video games/smart phones will ruin us" threads here on WTM and you'll see that's still an issue). And on and on and on. People are people everywhere. They always have and always will be. I see more in these books to connect us than to separate us.

 

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

 

Nicely said, Kathy.  This goes along with Pam's earlier comment on how literature increases our understanding of the world around us.

[Jane in NC]

I recognize that the books were written quite a while ago but it doesn't make the reading any easier for me. It still find it frustrating even when I put it in historical perspective. I agree people are people but culture seems to affect the limits to which we express our worries, disappointments, etc. It sets norms for personal boundaries. My personal boundaries are relatively strong and, to me, there seems to be far looser personal boundaries in Indian culture.

 

 

MaeFlowers, I have really enjoyed your comments.  By responding, I hope that you don't think me argumentative--that is not my intention.

 

About those personal boundaries, I am unsure if they are uniform across American culture.  I was born in the Midwest where people are friendly--but don't discuss much with "strangers" (i.e. acquaintances and neighbors!) beyond the weather. 

 

Then I moved to the South...Oh my!!  One of the first questions I was asked regularly was "What church do you attend?"  In my Midwestern childhood, this was the equivalent of discussing religion which was just Not Done.  One of the Jewish moms I met through a recreational activity grew tired of explaining so she started referring to her temple as a church. 

 

What really blew my mind though were the questions when my son was younger about why we did not have more children.  Family size is no one's business, of course, but at a time when I was not successful of maintaining pregnancies, it was painful to be asked this question from relative strangers. 

 

Can I blame this on the heat?  Do people in hot climates not understand boundaries?  (Inject stereotypical vision of Scandinavians with few words.) :lol:

[Chrysalis Academy]

I have also finished a couple of books recently. I enjoyed A Dirty Job by Christopher Moore. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33456.A_Dirty_Job. This was a book that I suspect I read at the wrong moment in time but still enjoyed overall (I had been waiting a really long time so went ahead). The book is about a young father, owner of a secndhand shop, who has a very odd second job in the overall world, collecting soul vessels from the dying and reselling them in his shop. Parts are hilarious but other parts depressing. I won't be continuing the series any time soon but the dc's and I now have a new "kitty" joke, for those who have read the book.

 

 

 

I discovered Christopher Moore a few years back, for the totally silly reason that I dated someone by that name in grad school, and wondered for a moment if it was the same person (it wasn't).  Anyway, I read Lamb and liked it enough to read a bunch of his other books.  Irreverent, quirky, unexpected. I think they were just right for me about 10 years ago, so I get what you mean about wrong place and time. I don't think I'd like them as much now, maybe? But definitely good beach reads.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Robin, Last December we had a conversation regarding planning for reading about India. I mentioned hunting for a Shukriyya recommendation that sounded wonderful but I couldn't remember beyond it had a pretty cover. Unlike many of you I am highly visual, my mom used to take me with her to used book shops to show her which Harlequins she had already read, I sorted by cover art.

 

I have continued my search and am relatively confident the author is M.M. Kaye. I think the book is The Far Pavilions but Shadow of the Moon is a close second. In honour of my search I am currently reading the first in her mystery series titled Death in Kashmir. Good so far and very different setting. I never associate skiing with India. Thus far (20%) the book has a bit of a Christie feel....may turn in to a locked room. Isolated ski chalet where murder is going to happy really soon. ;)

https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1040250.M_M_Kaye

 

Oh yeah, I read lots of MM Kaye back in my Heyer-infested youth! I've pretty much entirely forgotten the books you mention, but I know I liked them when I read them as a teenager.

[felicity]

I'm trying to keep reading, but it's GS cookie season and I run two troops. All of my reading time is taken up delivering cookies or worrying about cookies but strangely not actually eating cookies.

 

That said, I'm partway through The Little Paris Bookshop, Jar City (I'm a sucker for anything set in any of the Nordic countries), and the Casual Vacancy. None of them is really catching my interest but the Casual Vacancy is really dragging. I did finish The Light Between the Oceans and cried, but it's not one of my favorites. Good, but not something I'm revisiting in my mind.

 

That's my brief update before I get back to packaging cookies. The sale ends March 6th, so after that I'll have a little bit of extra time. I hope.

[Lady Florida.]

 

That teasing is something that romance readers frequently encounter.  It's curious, but readers of other genre fiction such as mysteries, science fiction, fantasies, and suspense thrillers do not seem to encounter the same disparagement.  Romances are often accused of being poorly written, formulaic trash.  Yes, I've encountered my share of poorly written romances; however, I've also encountered books in other genres that were poorly written.  I'll agree that romances do follow a formula.  The organization Romance Writers of America defines a romance as being comprised of “a central love story and an emotionally satisfying and optimistic ending.†

 

 

 

Thank you, Karen for taking this week to give us some information about your favorite genre. It's obvious there are many, many types of romance stories out there. I used to like romance novels, and while I no longer enjoy them I can't really say how, when, or why that changed.

 

I've been thinking about the quoted paragraph since I read your post yesterday. (I hope you see this, since I'm actually quoting Robin). It's grossly unfair for romance novels to be put in a box the way the often are. Many of us BaWers are fans of detective novels and everything both good and bad said about romance novels can be said about detective novels. Some are poorly written. Some are formulaic. They too have a formula, depending on whether it's a police procedural, amateur detective, cozy mystery, etc. Only the highest literary snobs look down on detective novels, yet plenty of people feel free to look down on romances. 

 

Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm sorry you and your fellow romance novel fans have to deal with teasing at best, and literary snobbery at worst.

[idnib]

There is an interaction in the book between Fielding and Aziz that I think might explain where I am coming from a little better. Fielding and Aziz are having a discussion and Aziz has a reaction that Fielding sort of scoffs at. Aziz asks Fielding if he is upset by the reaction and Fielding basically says, no, it's the degree to which you react. I see us as being more buttoned-up and that we feel the need to keep emotions to a minimum and value logic (maybe not the right word) more. Not that we are more logical, but that we value it more or maybe simply value the expression of emotion less?

 

...

 

To idnib. I did think about the Salem witch trials. I was wondering why we sort of left that sort of thinking behind. I do hear people say that our kids shouldn't read Harry Potter because of the witchcraft but I don't think these people actually believe witchcraft is real. They don't think witches are wondering through their villages stealing the children. But, in India and other countries, they still do. I guess my questions is, "Why don't we?" Do we consider it illogical? Is it because of negative views towards spirituality? Has Christian mysticism disappeared? (There is actually an author who writes about Christian Mysticism, and where it's gone, that I would really like to read.) And if people here still believe, why aren't they stoning people to death for it anymore? Not that they should. But why is there no outcry of some sort? Also, thank you for the information on the Jinn. I learned a little about them when I read The Golem and the Jinni last year and found it very interesting.

 

...

 

The character I had the most trouble with was Aziz. I really did have issues with the degree of his emotions. He could go from happy to mad to sad in a matter of minutes and all at extraordinary degrees. I don't take to people like this IRL well, either. In my mind, if you're that passionate about everything, then you are really passionate about nothing.

 

I agree that the West has been much better about leaving things like fear of witchcraft behind, which I attribute to both education and a focus on scientific, provable ideas. Not that those don't exist in the Islamic world, but I think the thinking of science is more about discovering God's creation through the language of math and science, not using them to disprove the existence of God.

 

As I've read more of this book, I have realized that I have a complex relationship with it. Last year, when I read Ulysses, I had extensive discussions with friends about whether Joyce does a good job writing women. Many modern women feel he does not, while men seem to think he does. Likewise, I think Forster, whose writing is so beautiful, has missed the mark on the Indian mind. I can see where he is trying to get inside, but he cannot, although I am unable to decide whether it is due to his own lack of perception, or a desire to appeal to the non-Indian reader. Part of that failed attempt is to make Indians seem much more emotional than he should. Aziz would be considered a bit crazy by Indian standards, I think! It is a more emotive culture, but if its people were to be as subject to mood swings as portrayed in the novel, I think it would be terrible.  Forster has overplayed his hand on this several times, and I flagged a couple of sections that particularly stood out, although there are numerous instances:

 

 

[in response to Fielding speaking about whether the situation is fair, and that he is happy he was born:] The Indians were bewildered. The line of thought was not alien to them, but the words were too definite and bleak. Unless a sentence paid a few compliments to Justice and Morality in passing, its grammar wounded their ears and paralyzed their minds.

 

...

 

[Just after the train leaves the station] She was perfect as always, his dear Mrs. Moore. All the love for her he had felt at the mosque welled up again, the fresher for forgetfulness. There was nothing he would not do for her. He would die to make her happy.

 

 

Is there a documented correlation between posting in these threads and reading more? I'm hoping so and volunteer to be a data point.

 

Yes there is, if I am to be a data point also. There is also a direct correlation to impacts on the family budget, number of bookshelves in the home, and the consumption of hot beverages, as far as I can tell.

 

I didn't get the impression you thought one culture was better or right. Just that you had trouble understanding and taking to the Indian culture of the 20s and 50s. 

 

The beauty of reading (fiction) books is that everyone comes away with their own feelings about the characters and the story. There's no right or wrong in that.

 

I also did not get that impression at all.

 

Can I blame this on the heat?  Do people in hot climates not understand boundaries?  (Inject stereotypical vision of Scandinavians with few words.) :lol:

 

It's too hot to work in the afternoon. What else are you going to talk about after all other topics have been expended? Joking aside, I think it's more of a collective midst that an individual one. If some part of the collective is doing something different, it must be investigated, post haste, to satisfaction, preferable over food and drinks.  ;)

[Kareni]

Thank you, Karen for taking this week to give us some information about your favorite genre. It's obvious there are many, many types of romance stories out there. I used to like romance novels, and while I no longer enjoy them I can't really say how, when, or why that changed.

 

I've been thinking about the quoted paragraph since I read your post yesterday. (I hope you see this, since I'm actually quoting Robin). It's grossly unfair for romance novels to be put in a box the way the often are. Many of us BaWers are fans of detective novels and everything both good and bad said about romance novels can be said about detective novels. Some are poorly written. Some are formulaic. They too have a formula, depending on whether it's a police procedural, amateur detective, cozy mystery, etc. Only the highest literary snobs look down on detective novels, yet plenty of people feel free to look down on romances. 

 

Anyway, I just wanted to say I'm sorry you and your fellow romance novel fans have to deal with teasing at best, and literary snobbery at worst.

 

Thank you, Kathy, for your kind words.  I've never really understood the anti-romance sentiment; it seems a shame to look down upon a genre that celebrates love.  I've decided that posting here in the Book a Week thread about the romances I read is my way of standing up for the genre.

 

As regards genres that have a formula:  I considered adding another line to my piece to the effect that were Picasso, Rembrandt, and I all given a pencil and paper and asked to draw a person [the formula], we would produce vastly different results.  It's the author's creativity with the formula that gives each book its own appeal (or not!).

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Kareni]

Kareni the maths book I mentioned last week is called, algebra and geometry, anything but square and is from Basher books.

 

Thank you.  Conveniently my library has this book, so I've requested it.

 

Regards,

Kareni

 

[Kareni]

Melville House has reissed a 70's "cult classic", Lucinella by Lore Segal.  As it often the case, I seemed to have missed this cult classic but am reading it now. Four words and an ISBN grace the back cover.  Those words are "Intelligence turns me on."  Hey Kareni--any sapiosexuality to add to your list? ;)

 

 

Sapiosexuality is a new category to me. The book does sound intriguing, and I'll be the first to admit that "intelligence turns me on"!

 

I just finished Brotherhood in Death. A series I read for the relationships.

 

I am now reading Strong Signal by Megan Erickson and Santino Hassell

 

 

That's an interesting observation about the ... in Death series; I think that I read most of my romances for the relationships.  Of course, you can do a lot of relationship building when you have a forty book plus long series.

 

I've heard good things about Strong Signal; I'll look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Thank you, Karen, for the lovely write-up on romance novels.  I’m not much of a romance reader either, but I’m tempted by one or two of the titles you listed. 

 

I read and finished Mr. Penumbra’s 24 Hour Bookstore and thoroughly enjoyed it.  I would like to read more books like that for my fluffy reads. Any suggestions?

 

I've yet to read Mr. Penumbra’s 24 Hour Bookstore, so drats!

 

I did find a couple of blog posts that have suggestions that might work for you ~

 

She Reads Books: Mr. Penumbra’s 24-Hour Bookstore

 

Help me find fiction books that make me feel happy and alive!

 

 

...

 

I have continued my search and am relatively confident the author is M.M. Kaye. I think the book is The Far Pavilions but Shadow of the Moon is a close second. In honour of my search I am currently reading the first in her mystery series titled Death in Kashmir. Good so far and very different setting. I never associate skiing with India. Thus far (20%) the book has a bit of a Christie feel....may turn in to a locked room. Isolated ski chalet where murder is going to happy really soon. ;)

 

I'd never thought much about India and skiing but saw this headline today ~

 

Skiers Stumble Across Endangered Snow Leopard

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Kareni]

We did this one.  It was perfect for me; the author speaks to the audience exactly like a  kindergarten teacher, lol.  "Take your pencil.  Start at one edge of the paper.  Draw a line -- it can be curvy or straight or bent -- over to a different edge of the paper.  Make four such lines.  Now your paper will have sections!  Each of the sections is going to have a different pattern.  Now we'll learn some different patterns..."

 

 

It's amusing because the book you mentioned, One Zentangle A Day: A 6-Week Course in Creative Drawing for Relaxation, Inspiration, and Fun (One A Day), is one of the two that I read through yesterday.  And I (cough, cough) still found it a bit challenging. 

 

I think that this one, Zentangle Untangled: Inspiration and Prompts for Meditative Drawing by Kass Hall, which I also read yesterday might be my speed.  Its author is clearly meeting me at the preschool level!

 

**

 

Last night I finished the historical romance Dukes Prefer Blondes (The Dressmakers Series) by Loretta Chase.  It was an enjoyable read but not my favorite by this author. 

 

Here's a positive review from Kirkus and a lengthier (and not quite so positive) review from the Dear Author site.

 

From the back of the book:

 

"Biweekly marriage proposals from men who can't see beyond her (admittedly breathtaking) looks are starting to get on Lady Clara Fairfax's nerves. Desperate to be something more than ornamental, she escapes to her favorite charity. When a child is in trouble, she turns to tall, dark, and annoying barrister Oliver Radford.

 

Though he's unexpectedly found himself in line to inherit a dukedom, Radford's never been part of fashionable society, and the blonde beauty, though not entirely bereft of brains, isn't part of his plans. But Clara overwhelms even his infallible logic, and when wedlock looms, all he can do is try not to lose his head over her . ."

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Onceuponatime]

Hello, yesterday I started The Rook by Daniel O'Malley. My librarian insisted I read it. So far, it reminds me of Men in Black, but with a woman operative who has been "flashy thingied" and her mentor is letters from her former self.

 

About romances, when I read romance in the past it was always with a dash of gothic intrigue or mystery, like Mary Stewart, Phyllis Whitney, and similar authors. When I was an idealistic teen, I liked Grace Livingston Hill and still have my favorite story from those Years, Crimson Roses. Now, I enjoy some mysteries with romance, but with a little humor too, and not too much angst. I have especially enjoyed some of the newer light romances that have magical elements.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Onceuponatime

[Momto4inSoCal]

Well I didn't post on here last week but I am still chugging along with War and Peace. I am about 800 pages in. I watched the first episode of the bbc mini series and as always the book is so much better. I had high hopes for the mini series since it seems to have great reviews. Tolsky has such a gift at painting a picture of human characteristics that no one utters but everyone feels. Doubts about how you are being percieved by others, conjuring up boldness to do things you should, the growth of a person and how understanding of something can evolve. The series captures the story quiet well but the emotions of the characters, which you grow to understand and feel quite close to in the book, feel underdeveloped in the series. The chapters on war do translate better on film than in a book imo. I found myself just wanting to get through those parts while reading it but on screen it was much more exiting. Overall am really enjoying this book and should be able to finish it by the end of the week. I will most likely move onto Mere Christianity once I have finished since I started it prior to getting sidetracked with war and peace.

Eta: and I must say the romance with natasha goes nicely with the romance topic although war and peace is not quite the quick easy romantic read and is part romance, part war with some history sprinkled throughout. I read Anna Karenine over the summer and it leans much more to the romance side.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Momto4inSoCal

[NoseInABook]

Coincidentally enough, I've been reading a lot of romance lately! I just opened Patricia Briggs' River Marked today. Over the last few weeks I read the 5 books in the NOLA Zombie series by Gillian Zane (warning: lots of explicit sex that even made a seasoned romance reader like me go OH MY!), the three books in Rowena Through The Wall by Melodie Campbell, and Jennifer Estep's 5 superhero romances. Actually, I think I've finished one book out of the 20 this year that WASN'T romance and it was a nonfiction on marriage so technically... that could count. Hmm. 

[Angel]

I advise audiobooks.  Jim Dale = #Brilliant.  

 

You're a very good mom.  Chocolate frogs, that's beyond my pay grade, myself...   :lol:

They were a very simple chocolate mold.  The worst part...being in the kitchen that long  :ack2:

 

I haven't received my invitation yet. I'm sure it'll be here tomorrow. In case it's not could you post your address here and then we can all join the festivities. 

 

Ah, it's that ruddy bird Errol.  He frequently gets lost  :P

 

That sounds like such fun! We never hosted, but attended a number of Harry Potter parties when ds was younger. I made chocolate frogs too. I still have the mold, and though I'm pretty sure I'll never make them again I can't bring myself to get rid of it.

 

The host of one of the parties had woods behind their house and the teens in the group (the party was hosted by a family in our hs group) set up a tri-wizard tournament in their back-yard woods. 

 

I hope you all have a blast. We have great memories of our HP parties.

That sound really amazing!  We wanted to set up Quidditch in our front yard and play but a couple of inches of snow and freezing cold temperatures Saturday prevented that.   :glare:   Definitely hold on to the mold!!

 

How fun! We want to come too!

 

We had a great time!  I was shocked to receive rsvp's from everyone we invited but one!  Our basement was full!  Some of our guests completed the 1000 piece Harry Potter puzzle I found at the thrift store around 10:30 that evening.  The oreo bon bon golden snitches were the first food to disappear.  I think my 11 yo nephew maybe at half of them!   Some of the kids made it through all 8 movies, which ended at 2:30 am.   :scared:   I went to bed a little after midnight, almost all of the adults left around 10:30.  We started at 7:30 in the morning.  I had a picture of Moaning Myrtle taped to the toilet downstairs which had the boys (young and old alike) in giggles.  I'll try and share some pictures tomorrow! 

 

 just have to chime in and say I absolutely LOVE that book!  I think it's definitely one of my favorite Narnia books.  Link is reading through the series now - I read them to the boys when they were younger, and I just realized I haven't started them with Pink yet!  Maybe soon.   :)  Which actually brings me to another reason I was postI

ing:  Good kids books!  Well, he's a kid but not a little kid.  Link is 12.  (HOW THE BLOODY HECK DID I GET A TWELVE YEAR OLD ALREADY?!  SHEESH!!)   He goes through books like there is no tomorrow.  

 

I love the Narnia books too!  When I was younger The Last Battle was one of my favorites but truly I think The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and The Dawn Treader are now my favorites.  

 

Does your son like fantasy?  Most of our titles would be that lol.  Dd21 just gave my nephew, 11, the first book in the Dragons in our Midst series by Bryan Davis, Raising Dragons.  There are maybe 12 books in that series.  Same nephew read and enjoyed the Magyk series, The Land of Stories series, and Artemis Fowl.  I'm not a fan of Artemis Fowl myself (I only read the first one and wasn't impressed).  Dd15 just read The Land of Stories and liked it.  And I read the Magyk and liked it.   

 

 

 

So I am reading The Dress Shop of Dreams which I picked randomly because I liked the pretty dress on the cover. 

I read this last year as my book I picked because of its cover!  I really enjoyed it.  I've got another book of hers on my TBR list.  

[Chrysalis Academy]

Re: romances - well,, y'all already know that I've read pretty much every Georgette Heyer book ever written.  Like Onceuponatime, I grew up reading Gothic romances - Phyllis Whitney, Victoria Holt, Mary Stewart.  My mom did have a stash of Harlequins and a few other books that she kept under her bed in a box.  When I was sick, I was always allowed to spend the day in their bed, and I'd sneak the romances and read them inside of another book, or with another book handy and slide them under the covers if I heard someone coming.  I learned a lot from those books!  ;)  I especially remember the Calder saga by Janet Daily, and the Texas series by Fern Michaels.  Whew!  Most enlightening to a young teenager who was starting to have feelings for boys, but who had no idea what to do about it.   I haven't really read romances since high school, but it was definitely an important phase in my, er . . . development.  ;)  :D

[prairiewindmomma]

:seeya: I am still around, even though I haven't posted in a few weeks. I became impatient waiting for a paper copy of a particular book and have been listening instead.  I am 23 hours in. I enjoy the story, but it's cut down on my book churning immensely.  

 

I love the discussions on these threads!

[Ausmumof3]

Is there a documented correlation between posting in these threads and reading more? I'm hoping so and volunteer to be a data point.

I'm pretty sure there's a correlation between the thread and the size of my library list. And possibly the housework backlog 😕

[PeacefulChaos]

^^^^Definitely a correlation between the thread and the length of my 'to read' list on Goodreads.  :D

 

Finally finished up Woman of Influence by Pam Farrel.

 

It was a re-read.  I can't remember my exact impression the last time I read it - it was probably 5 years ago, around the same time of year, with a group at church.  This time around, I'll call it enjoyable.  It wasn't particularly challenging, faith-wise, but was solid and comfortable.  Overall I think it was nicely placed for me this time around as something that sort of backed up what I was already thinking, as opposed to being a book that was new and pushing me to new things.

 

I'm glad I reread it.  There are a couple quotes in it that are some of my favorites in any book of its type (be aware of blatant Christian content ahead) :

 

'Most women don't see themselves as women of inflence bcause they think they have to do some grand thing to be influential.' 

 

'If we stray too far in one direction, we can become legalistic and set up barriers for people who are seeking Jesus.  If we stray too far in the other direction, we may live no differently from those who are apart from Christ, and they may never see Jesus in us.'

 

The first I love and can be applied to any women, anywhere - I find it especially true of myself, as a stay at home (for the most part), homeschooling mom - I was literally just talking to a friend about this sort of thing and saying that I have no inflence on anything, or anyone, ever.  She shut me down pretty quick (in the good way lol), and then I read this tonight and thought of my conversation with her, and how so often we misunderstand 'inflence' as having to be of a certain magnitude.

The second is just so relevant to Christianity today - it was relevant to our situation 5 years ago (I underlined it that time through) and when I posted it on FB back then, a friend called me and was like YES.  It happened to be sandwiched on their news feed between two examples of the exact opposites that are listed in the quote!   :lol:  This time around it hadn't lost its potency.  It's so true.

 

 

Next I'll be picking up another reread of a favorite - this year I'll be going through all of my Peretti books, and the next on the list is Piercing the Darkness.  It's the first Peretti book I ever read and I loved it.  Despite the flaws of the Darkness books of his, I go back and greet them as old friends - I can't help loving them anyway. Despite seeing the huge holes and uncomfortable writing more as I get older, it's easy to brush past them and not worry about it.  I hope I'm not the only one who does that!   :D

 

 

I also read the second chapter of The Power of a Praying Wife today.  Meh.  It was better than the first one... but I still think I have some theological issues with it, as I don't believe in a 'perfect will of God' for an individual.  So.  This book may be a wash.  Or I may keep reading it as I was planning to (one chapter a week, focusing on that in prayer for the week) but only as a bit of a loose reminder or focus point for the week.  The first week was 'his wife' (aka pray that I'll be a good wife - that one was just.... wow.) and the second is 'his work'.  I can pretty easily just use that loose guideline.  

Maybe I'll just read the chapter titles each week.   :lol: :lol:

Edited February 16, 2016 by PeacefulChaos

[Angel]

Re: romances - well,, y'all already know that I've read pretty much every Georgette Heyer book ever written.  Like Onceuponatime, I grew up reading Gothic romances - Phyllis Whitney, Victoria Holt, Mary Stewart.  My mom did have a stash of Harlequins and a few other books that she kept under her bed in a box.  When I was sick, I was always allowed to spend the day in their bed, and I'd sneak the romances and read them inside of another book, or with another book handy and slide them under the covers if I heard someone coming.  I learned a lot from those books!  ;)  I especially remember the Calder saga by Janet Daily, and the Texas series by Fern Michaels.  Whew!  Most enlightening to a young teenager who was starting to have feelings for boys, but who had no idea what to do about it.   I haven't really read romances since high school, but it was definitely an important phase in my, er . . . development.  ;)  :D

:lol:  :lol:  My mom kept hers in her dresser drawer and it was Kathleen Woodweiss.  I can so relate!!

 

 

'Most women don't see themselves as women of inflence bcause they think they have to do some grand thing to be influential.' 

 

'If we stray too far in one direction, we can become legalistic and set up barriers for people who are seeking Jesus.  If we stray too far in the other direction, we may live no differently from those who are apart from Christ, and they may never see Jesus in us.'

 

I also read the second chapter of The Power of a Praying Wife today.  Meh.  It was better than the first one... but I still think I have some theological issues with it, as I don't believe in a 'perfect will of God' for an individual.  So.  This book may be a wash.  Or I may keep reading it as I was planning to (one chapter a week, focusing on that in prayer for the week) but only as a bit of a loose reminder or focus point for the week.  The first week was 'his wife' (aka pray that I'll be a good wife - that one was just.... wow.) and the second is 'his work'.  I can pretty easily just use that loose guideline.  

Maybe I'll just read the chapter titles each week.   :lol: :lol:

I'm so glad you shared these quotes!  I like both, though the bolded rings more true as I see so many people, especially older teens and young adults swinging so far toward the world just to NOT be labeled legalistic or judgmental.  

 

I remember reading The Power of a Praying Wife years ago.  I'm not much of a "read a book about the Bible" person, preferring to study the Bible itself, but I remember listening to those who were really getting a lot out of this book and wondering what I was missing  :laugh:

[PeacefulChaos]

 

 

I'm so glad you shared these quotes!  I like both, though the bolded rings more true as I see so many people, especially older teens and young adults swinging so far toward the world just to NOT be labeled legalistic or judgmental.  

 

I remember reading The Power of a Praying Wife years ago.  I'm not much of a "read a book about the Bible" person, preferring to study the Bible itself, but I remember listening to those who were really getting a lot out of this book and wondering what I was missing  :laugh:

To the first paragraph: Yes.  Just yes.  It's very trendy and popular and cool right now to be trendy and popular and cool.  :lol:  There's a balance to it that for a good while was swinging veeeery far in the opposite direction of legalistic!  I do think that more people are beginning to find that balance now and seeing the problems with either end.  One can hope, anyway.  :)

 

Second: Same.  I read some 'books about the Bible' over the years through different ministries and stuff and was getting very tired of it. I was so thrilled when some friends decided to start a Bible study group that just reads the Bible!  What a novel idea!  :lol:  Now I try to reserve the 'books about the Bible' to be either highly recommended over time (Knowing God by J.I. Packer is, so far, very good, and The Celebration of Discipline is an old favorite of mine) or rereads that I'm trying to decide whether or not to get rid of.  :D :lol:  I find that sometimes they have their place, but any book has to be taken with a grain of salt.  Or a whole shaker full.  Whatever.  :D 

[Angelaboord]

I am slowly coming back into the world after my baby's birth a little over a week ago. Abigail Therese was born on Feb. 5, 7 lbs 11 oz, 20 inches long, with lots and lots of dark hair with really surprising blonde highlights. She also almost certainly has Down Syndrome. We are waiting on the test results, but it is highly unlikely that they will be negative. This was quite a shock as I had had no prenatal testing and there were no markers on my ultrasound. She does have some heart defects which may require surgery, but as of the moment, she is doing really well. I, of course, have shifted my reading to all Down Syndrome related titles, as I found I knew next to nothing about it. I am not sure how much I will be able to participate going forward, but I have to say that right now it is nice to have my Goodreads feed to scroll through at the end of the day just to have something a little normal.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Kareni]

I am slowly coming back into the world after my baby's birth a little over a week ago. Abigail Therese was born on Feb. 5, 7 lbs 11 oz, 20 inches long, with lots and lots of dark hair with really surprising blonde highlights. She also almost certainly has Down Syndrome.

 

Welcome, Abigail Therese!  I imagine that this is a time of both celebration and concern, and I wish you both well.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[MaeFlowers]

MaeFlowers, I have really enjoyed your comments.  By responding, I hope that you don't think me argumentative--that is not my intention.

 

About those personal boundaries, I am unsure if they are uniform across American culture.  I was born in the Midwest where people are friendly--but don't discuss much with "strangers" (i.e. acquaintances and neighbors!) beyond the weather. 

 

Then I moved to the South...Oh my!!  One of the first questions I was asked regularly was "What church do you attend?"  In my Midwestern childhood, this was the equivalent of discussing religion which was just Not Done.  One of the Jewish moms I met through a recreational activity grew tired of explaining so she started referring to her temple as a church. 

 

What really blew my mind though were the questions when my son was younger about why we did not have more children.  Family size is no one's business, of course, but at a time when I was not successful of maintaining pregnancies, it was painful to be asked this question from relative strangers. 

 

Can I blame this on the heat?  Do people in hot climates not understand boundaries?  (Inject stereotypical vision of Scandinavians with few words.) :lol:

 

First, I don't think you are argumentative. Even if I did, I wouldn't mind. I think people should bring their ideas to the table and everyone should discuss. If I'm wrong, I don't mind being proved wrong. That's how we grow in knowledge and wisdom, right?

 

Oh, I live in the south, too. I grew up in OK but now live in GA. I get it. I remember one time my very southern MIL complaining about a family issue. Not thinking I said, "I think your family needs some boundaries." It was said offhandedly and with no judgment but, oh, she got huffy. "We do NOT need boundaries. Families are not supposed to have boundaries!" I changed the subject.

 

My parents were married for nine years before they had me, an only child. At parties, people would ask them why they didn't have kids. My Dad finally got tired of it and starting responding, "Well, we used to." He said it was pretty effective at ending the conversation.

 

 

I agree that the West has been much better about leaving things like fear of witchcraft behind, which I attribute to both education and a focus on scientific, provable ideas. Not that those don't exist in the Islamic world, but I think the thinking of science is more about discovering God's creation through the language of math and science, not using them to disprove the existence of God.

 

As I've read more of this book, I have realized that I have a complex relationship with it. Last year, when I read Ulysses, I had extensive discussions with friends about whether Joyce does a good job writing women. Many modern women feel he does not, while men seem to think he does. Likewise, I think Forster, whose writing is so beautiful, has missed the mark on the Indian mind. I can see where he is trying to get inside, but he cannot, although I am unable to decide whether it is due to his own lack of perception, or a desire to appeal to the non-Indian reader. Part of that failed attempt is to make Indians seem much more emotional than he should. Aziz would be considered a bit crazy by Indian standards, I think! It is a more emotive culture, but if its people were to be as subject to mood swings as portrayed in the novel, I think it would be terrible.  Forster has overplayed his hand on this several times, and I flagged a couple of sections that particularly stood out, although there are numerous instances:

 

I think science here and in Europe used to be more about discovering God's creation, not disproving it. I think we are more non-religious than the east and have probably lost some of that.

 

Maybe Aziz was an exaggeration of his perception of Indian culture.

[Stacia]

I am slowly coming back into the world after my baby's birth a little over a week ago. Abigail Therese was born on Feb. 5, 7 lbs 11 oz, 20 inches long, with lots and lots of dark hair with really surprising blonde highlights. She also almost certainly has Down Syndrome. We are waiting on the test results, but it is highly unlikely that they will be negative. This was quite a shock as I had had no prenatal testing and there were no markers on my ultrasound. She does have some heart defects which may require surgery, but as of the moment, she is doing really well. I, of course, have shifted my reading to all Down Syndrome related titles, as I found I knew next to nothing about it. I am not sure how much I will be able to participate going forward, but I have to say that right now it is nice to have my Goodreads feed to scroll through at the end of the day just to have something a little normal.

 

Congrats on your new daughter (& you have given her a very lovely name). :001_wub:

 

Caring :grouphug: :grouphug:  as you face health issues with your daughter & also happy :grouphug: :grouphug:  in celebration of your newest family member.

[Ali in OR]

I am slowly coming back into the world after my baby's birth a little over a week ago. Abigail Therese was born on Feb. 5, 7 lbs 11 oz, 20 inches long, with lots and lots of dark hair with really surprising blonde highlights. She also almost certainly has Down Syndrome. We are waiting on the test results, but it is highly unlikely that they will be negative. This was quite a shock as I had had no prenatal testing and there were no markers on my ultrasound. She does have some heart defects which may require surgery, but as of the moment, she is doing really well. I, of course, have shifted my reading to all Down Syndrome related titles, as I found I knew next to nothing about it. I am not sure how much I will be able to participate going forward, but I have to say that right now it is nice to have my Goodreads feed to scroll through at the end of the day just to have something a little normal.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Congratulations on the birth of your newest little one!

 

I know you find yourself on a different road than you imagined when you have a special needs child. My oldest is severely disabled and has had several classmates with Down Syndrome--all delightful people, each with unique gifts to offer the world. May the many joys awaiting you always make the challenges easier to navigate. Wishing you much delight in your little girl!

[Guest]

Sister Citizen: This book is exactly what I was would hoping it would be - an entry point to seeing some of the worldview of black women in the States.  When and Where I Enter, which I read last week, gave me an overview of the history and a bit of perspective, but this was a perfect next step. 

 

Stepford Wives: I've heard this referenced for years, but never read the book.  ...what a perfect (and terrifying) thing to read while revisiting some feminist history...

I am left shaken by this grim nightmare of men and their real desires.  I don't believe it to be true of all, or even most, men, so I am struggling to find an angle of view that feels more probable for this, technically improbable, story.  The two ideas I am weighing are that this town and its dystopia were, in some way, a self-selecting proposition, that the guys whose families moved there were looking for something like this... though that doesn't address the seemingly universal participation of the families in the town originally... the other idea is that this is a direct response to the, then, relatively new but growing, feminist movement.  (And I think the text could support such an argument). 

 

The book blurb describes this as: "At once a masterpiece of psychological suspense and a savage commentary on a media-driven society that values the pursuit of youth and beauty at all costs". 

 

I agree with the first half, but the second seems all wrong - this book isn't addressing media or youth or beauty, it is, very clearly, unequivocally, addressing male fantasies of control and keeping their wives in their place... or, more accurately, not wanting wives, wanting sex toys and housekeepers, without dreams, ideas, or beings of their own. 

 

Shake, Why Don't You Sing: Maya Angelou poetry volume from the early '80s.  The flavor and rhythm of these poems clicked for me and I read the slim volume in a single sitting (I'd just pulled it off the shelf to glance at...)

 

Absurd Person Singular: This Ayckbourn play was rather a disappointment.  I remember his Seasons Greetings as farcically hilarious with a bitter edge of truth.  This had some of the humor, but the bitter edge was a mile wide swath and didn't quite balance with the humor.  Perhaps a top-notch performance could pull it together?

 

Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian: This was a disappointment too - in part because it uses some of the same material as the short stories in Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven and in part because I found the YA genre a poor match for the sad grimness that underlies Alexie's stories.   I think he is an important author to read, but I am not sure I will be up for more any time soon... [side note: I felt the crudity of some sections made it not a good choice for my teens, I actually think his adult stories would be more comfortable for them, ymmv]

 

Lady of Quality by Heyer: A comfort reread.  There is much I am fond of in this book, but it has a flaw that annoys me: we got plot and interaction and then a character explaining/justifying herself & describing what just happened... and then we have it again and again... but otherwise this is a sweet diversion.

 

Passage to India: A fascinating book with incredibly crafted prose and enough complexity and ambiguity to require much reflection and, over the years, probably more than one read.

 

I felt that the heart of this story wasn't the caves, or what happened there, but the prickly, doomed attempt at friendship between Aziz and Fielding, which, I thought, on some level, symbolized the attraction/repulsion/unequal connection between their respective countries.

 

I did connect strongly with Adela - her earnestness, her sincerity, her desire to do the right thing... and her innocence and vulnerability. I wanted this to be her story, but it wasn't, she was never really center stage....

 

Mrs Moore's shift as we moved from part I to part II seemed part of her declining health, as she pulled inward and away from her son and prospective daughter in law and from her more outward focused, experience the world space of the first part.  In some ways this seemed to represent the ineffectuality of her approach against the weight of Anglo-Indian affairs...

 

Jane, thank you for inspiring me to finally read this!  I knew the main plot points, which had always kept me from reading it before... but the plot points weren't, it seemed to me, at all the point of the story... as is so often the case with great works of literature...

 

 

 

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

I am slowly coming back into the world after my baby's birth a little over a week ago. Abigail Therese was born on Feb. 5, 7 lbs 11 oz, 20 inches long, with lots and lots of dark hair with really surprising blonde highlights. She also almost certainly has Down Syndrome. We are waiting on the test results, but it is highly unlikely that they will be negative. This was quite a shock as I had had no prenatal testing and there were no markers on my ultrasound. She does have some heart defects which may require surgery, but as of the moment, she is doing really well. I, of course, have shifted my reading to all Down Syndrome related titles, as I found I knew next to nothing about it. I am not sure how much I will be able to participate going forward, but I have to say that right now it is nice to have my Goodreads feed to scroll through at the end of the day just to have something a little normal.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

:grouphug: to you and Abigail. Congratulations, and best wishes to you both - may she thrive.  :grouphug:

Edited February 16, 2016 by Chrysalis Academy

[idnib]

I am slowly coming back into the world after my baby's birth a little over a week ago. Abigail Therese was born on Feb. 5, 7 lbs 11 oz, 20 inches long, with lots and lots of dark hair with really surprising blonde highlights. She also almost certainly has Down Syndrome. 

 

Welcome Abigail Therese!  :grouphug:

 

Maybe Aziz was an exaggeration of his perception of Indian culture.

 

Yes, maybe. That's what I'm struggling with. How much is a deliberate exaggeration, how much is misunderstanding, how much is that Aziz would be like this regardless of what his culture and country was? What if A British author simply wants to write about an emotionally unstable person, who happens to be Indian? Will people find that character to be simply overwrought, or will it reflect badly on the author as a ham-fisted attempt? What if the same character were dropped into a known as a much more reserved place, such as Scandinavia? Would people assume he was off kilter, rather than typical? How does an outsider write an emotional character who lives in an emotional culture?

 

I have to admit I am not inclined to be generous because it's not just Aziz, it's entire groups of people on emotional roller coasters together. But then I am inclined to be generous because I love the writing and there's not enough good writing about this particular place and time.

[Guest]

Michelle: I hope you are continuing to heal from your TBI.  Sending you hugs and warm thoughts.

 

Heather: I hope you are getting over your cough!

 

Stacia: I know this has been a hard time - I hope the unemployment season is over soon! 

 

 

 

I have no reading to report as I've been in buried with music, house guests and getting ready for our trip. The other day I actually went to the library and didn't check out a single book.  Madness, I tell you, just madness!

 

Enjoy your guests, love!    ...and I hope the trip preparations are being more fun than stressful.

 

I enjoyed reading Karen's thoughts on romance and jotted down a few titles.  Admi), ttedly, I don't read much romance, and when I think of romance, I tend more towards Harriet Vane/Peter Wimsey type romance.

 

The past few weeks I've been reading a lot, but it's mostly a little here, a little there, and not finishing much of anything.  What I did finish: Come Rain or Come Shine by Jan Karon, Lewis's Perelandra (finally), The Hidden Treasure of Glaston (YA historical fiction) Seven League Boots by Richard Halliburton, and People Who Eat Darkness by Richard Lloyd Parry.  That one kept me up all night. And several Sherlock Holmes' stories.

 

Right now I'm working on Everybody Was So Young by Amanda Vaill and for fun (and with my dd's urging) Cart and Cwidder by Diana Wynne Jones, who has never disappointed me.

 

I, too, seem to prefer the romance as part of a larger story (and more cerebral than physical).

 

I have to say, DWJ did disappoint me once.  Her Sudden Wild Magic felt less well crafted than her other books I'd read up until then.  It has grown on me over the years, but it remains, imho, her weakest book.  (and one of her few adult books - it is decidedly not intended for children).

 

 

Thank you for the kind words on the romance write up.  It's given me a new appreciation for all the work that Robin puts into her weekly posts while reminding me of my tendency for procrastination.

 

 

 

Kareni, I want to join the chorus of appreciation for your write-up... and of sympathy for the disrespect often shown to romance readers.  It doesn't make much sense - there is formulaic writing in every genre, there is escape reading in every genre.... and every genre has its fans and those who just don't connect with it...

 

I read (some) Heyers with pleasure, but other than that have bounced off of the romance genre fairly consistently.  I am still puzzled by it, and will probably try again some day to see if there are exceptions.  (Though it is hard to find modern romances I can comfortably try since I don't like to read direct descriptions of physical attraction.

 

Which reminds me: I was reading a Q & A on Jo Walton's Goodreads page and discovered that I am not as normal I thought I was.  I am, apparently "demisexual"

 

From a demisexual resource website:  "a sexual orientation in which someone feels sexual attraction only to people with whom they have an emotional bond."  which I'd always thought was how most people were, but the site says:

 

"Most people on the non-asexual side of the spectrum feel sexual attraction regardless of whether or not they have a close emotional bond with someone. They may have sexual feelings for attractive people on the street, classmates or coworkers they’ve barely spoken to, or celebrities. However, they may choose to wait to have sex for a variety of reasons: it might not be feasible or appropriate, they want to make sure the person is respectful and kind, it’s against their religious beliefs, they only want to have sex in a romantic relationship, etc. The difference is that demisexuals don’t start out with these sexual feelings at all."

 

...which I guess makes the kilt threads and some other discussions here make more sense.  I've always been confused by them.  ...and I wondered if this is one reason romances as a genre are such a failure for me, and Heyer is an exception, because Heyer doesn't talk about physical attraction directly at all, the emotional bond, and the fluffy story line, are the focus in a way that works for me as comfort reading and that romance novels hit the wrong note on....

 

 

 

I finished Strange Bodies by Marcel Theroux.  I ended up liking it considerably more than I thought I would halfway through. I found the premise unbelievable - that consciousness is entirely based on language, and could be recreated in a different body purely by "coding" someone's written work into a brain pattern that could be imprinted on another body.  I think there is much more to consciousness & personality than just language, in particular the constructed personal narratives that we create. I think there is genetics, and felt/body experiences, and there is the "reality" of what happens that is separate from the stories we tell ourselves about our lives.  But, despite that, I did appreciate the exploration of identity that the book offered. And I do agree with the following:

 

"The human personality is not an object, it's a process, a constant state of becoming that depends on a web of interdependencies, binding us to one another with invisible filaments, to our time, to memories and possessions, and back to our changing selves. And even that image probably overstates the solidity and integrity of the human personality. Strip a person away from the relationships that constitute his identity - the friends, the loved ones, the familiar sounds - and the outcome is bound to be breakdown and madness."

 

With your review and Stacia's I am not fairly sure I will want to read this... thank you!

 

 

 

 

Is there a documented correlation between posting in these threads and reading more? I'm hoping so and volunteer to be a data point.

 

 

Not for me.  I average a book a day, and have for most of my reading life.

 

...but being part of the discussions here has shifted how and what I read in ways which have given me great joy and delight.

 

 

 

I also read a play, King Charles III by Mike Bartlett. I don't typically read plays but dh and I had seen it in NYC so he got me the play as a gift for my birthday. It's a great play. The premise is that it's a "future history" play. Queen Elizabeth has died and Charles is the new king. He immediately gets embroiled in an issue that causes a major governmental crisis. It's all about the role of the monarchy. William and Kate and Harry are all in it as well. It's written in blank verse and feels very Shakespearean. It's also quite funny. 

 

That sounds really neat!

 

I am going to put in a purchase request with my library...

 

Thank you!

 

I am slowly coming back into the world after my baby's birth a little over a week ago. Abigail Therese was born on Feb. 5, 7 lbs 11 oz, 20 inches long, with lots and lots of dark hair with really surprising blonde highlights. She also almost certainly has Down Syndrome. We are waiting on the test results, but it is highly unlikely that they will be negative. This was quite a shock as I had had no prenatal testing and there were no markers on my ultrasound. She does have some heart defects which may require surgery, but as of the moment, she is doing really well. I, of course, have shifted my reading to all Down Syndrome related titles, as I found I knew next to nothing about it. I am not sure how much I will be able to participate going forward, but I have to say that right now it is nice to have my Goodreads feed to scroll through at the end of the day just to have something a little normal.



 

 

:grouphug:

 

What an intense time this must be - so much joy, but, I imagine, grief for the path that life isn't taking, and uncertainty about where this journey that has opened up before you will take you.  :grouphug:

 

The world always changes, forever, in such deep ways when we have a new baby... and a major diagnosis also shifts our universe.  ...and you're processing both at once.  :grouphug:

 

[Guest]

 

 

Yes, maybe. That's what I'm struggling with. How much is a deliberate exaggeration, how much is misunderstanding, how much is that Aziz would be like this regardless of what his culture and country was? What if A British author simply wants to write about an emotionally unstable person, who happens to be Indian? Will people find that character to be simply overwrought, or will it reflect badly on the author as a ham-fisted attempt? What if the same character were dropped into a known as a much more reserved place, such as Scandinavia? Would people assume he was off kilter, rather than typical? How does an outsider write an emotional character who lives in an emotional culture?

 

I have to admit I am not inclined to be generous because it's not just Aziz, it's entire groups of people on emotional roller coasters together. But then I am inclined to be generous because I love the writing and there's not enough good writing about this particular place and time.

 

I think we are seeing one culture very, very much through the eyes of another.  And to a culture that valued 'stiff upper lips' so much, a more openly emotional culture, open expression of feelings, would, I imagine, seem very unstable and unpredictable.

 

I don't see this as a flaw in the book, really, it is showing us India through (relatively sympathetic) British eyes, and I find that fascinating.  I don't know how much is Forster as intentionally unreliable narrator (though reading the opening section again I am slightly inclined to give him credit for more intentional unreliability than I might otherwise) and how much is his own limitations.  I've started his Hills of Devi (which Jane recommended & which it turns out I have on my shelves) and am hoping that might tip the scales for me one way or another.

[Guest]

Hello my lovelies.

 

For those of you reading Passage, we now move the discussion to what you think may have happened in the cave--and the aftermath.

 

 

 

I think Mrs Moore's experience in the first cave is not unrelated to what Adela experienced later. 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler Warning: If you are still reading Passage, you may want to skip this post!

 

I finished Passage this morning.  I loved the first section and was fine with the third section.  But I had a really hard time with The Cave.  I've been mulling it over all week, and I think that what I've come up with is this: Forster does his male characters very well - Aziz and Fielding were very deftly drawn.  I don't think he is as successful with his female characters. Neither Miss Quested or Mrs. Moore rang at all true to me, at least not their behavior/reactions to the Cave scene, or in how they behaved during its aftermath.  Mrs. Moore was such a lovely character in the first section, and I just don't follow or accept the shift in her whole personality and outlook that followed after the Caves.  Was she just disillusioned, and gave up?  Whatever the explanation, she doesn't hold up as this magical, mystical bridge between East and West - especially as she made no effort to actually do anything about what I assume she perceived as Adela's mistake.  Or maybe she believed the accusation, and that is what disillusioned her? I don't know, and what's worse, i didn't believe it.  

 

Nor did Adela's behavior seem particularly comprehensible, especially if you take the view that she just imagined the attack.  I can buy her making a mistake about *who* attacked her, and overreacting/panicking, but I can't accept that she just created the entire incident. 

 

I don't know, I just didn't get those two characters. And so my appreciation of the book as a whole suffered, although I appreciated the beautiful writing and the insights about the meeting of cultures - at least the male half.

 

 

 

I don't think the female characters are badly drawn, but I do think they are not the central focus of the story - even when the plot puts them there.  The Fielding/Aziz relationship is the heart of the book, I think, and everything else frames it.

 

Mrs Moore had her own cave experience which shook her physically and emotionally.  She isn't the same again afterwards, either physically or emotionally.  She'd been pulling back before, but would flicker to life again, we see it in her conversation with Aziz right before the first cave, but not again afterwards.

 

Adela - she experienced something which scared her, something that was also both physical and emotional and left her shaken and confused.  She ran away from it, encountered Miss Derek and must have tried to explain why she was so upset.  In trying to describe it, imagine Miss Derek's responses and assumptions and think about assault victims and how easily their memories can be shifted by the way they are questioned... I think she was so shaken and didn't have a clear picture of what had happened and, when leading questions were asked and assumptions made, it shaped her memories... and she struggled with it afterwards it what I felt was a very believable way... and then when she was being walked through it at the trial, she had a clear, untainted memory which jarred with the tidy explanation she'd come to believe. 

[Jane in NC]

Welcome Abigail Therese!  And hugs to Angelaboord and her family.  If you think some snail mail might be cheering in the months ahead, you might want to add your name and address to the BaW mail list.  Just send the info in a PM to Robin or me.

 

 

I think we are seeing one culture very, very much through the eyes of another.  And to a culture that valued 'stiff upper lips' so much, a more openly emotional culture, open expression of feelings, would, I imagine, seem very unstable and unpredictable.

 

I don't see this as a flaw in the book, really, it is showing us India through (relatively sympathetic) British eyes, and I find that fascinating.  I don't know how much is Forster as intentionally unreliable narrator (though reading the opening section again I am slightly inclined to give him credit for more intentional unreliability than I might otherwise) and how much is his own limitations.  I've started his Hills of Devi (which Jane recommended & which it turns out I have on my shelves) and am hoping that might tip the scales for me one way or another.

 

I shall be curious to hear your comments on Hills, Eliana.  That volume solidified for me a feeling that Forster truly loved India. 

 

In thinking about the caves as a metaphor in Passage, I stumbled across an article in the Guardian that I think may be of interest to my fellow Forster readers.

[Chrysalis Academy]

 

 

I shall be curious to hear your comments on Hills, Eliana.  That volume solidified for me a feeling that Forster truly loved India. 

 

In thinking about the caves as a metaphor in Passage, I stumbled across an article in the Guardian that I think may be of interest to my fellow Forster readers.

 

Interesting.  in my reading, i never questioned that Aziz might be guilty. It seemed obvious he wasn't. But I also didn't question whether an attack had happened - given the evidence of the broken strap - I assumed it was the guide. I also didn't pick up on Adela being attracted to Aziz and projecting her feelings onto him, either. I just thought she was attacked, and badly shaken, and made a mistake about who did it, encouraged by Miss Derek, and was encouraged in this muddled memory by the other English, and as Eliana said, it wasn't until she was systematically led to walk through her memories that she realized she had made a mistake. I definitely give her credit for owning it.

 

So I never saw a lot of ambiguity about what happened at the cave. What was central was how everyone responded to what happened, and  why.

[Nan in Mass]

Whoever recommended Gurney Journey, a thousand thanks. I am having SO much fun reading it. (Not a book - a blog. I have read his books, though, and this builds on them.)

 

Nan

[Pam in CT]

All right.  Re: Passage.  What do y'all think was going on, back in Mosque, when they hit the "jackal"?  (Please reply before reading spoiler...)

 

 

 

Spoiler:

 

I presumed that the car had hit a child. I kept expecting, all through the remainder of Mosque and into Caves, we'd come back to this.

 

 

I think this ambiguous episode may be coloring my reading a great deal (including the question of intentionally unreliable narrator) and I'm curious what my fellow readers thought of it.

[mumto2]

Welcome Abigail Therese! What a beautiful name. :grouphug: to Angela and her family during the coming months.

 

 

I finished 90 minutes in Heaven last night. It is one of my bf's favourites and I have had her copy for years......dusty, recommended by friend, number in title wins!

 

My feelings about this book vary widely. The spiritual message was good but much of it was about his recovery and bounced all over the place. As a quick summary, leaving religion out as much as possible..... He was in a horrible car accident and was declared dead on the scene. A minister friend arrived on the scene (former Vietnam medic) and crawled into his wrecked car to pray for him. After quite awhile the man returned to life. But then came the recovery which I puzzled over. His wife approved an experimental treatment in order to attempt to save his leg from amputation. The procedure was painful and required being relatively immobile for a year but would save his leg if it worked. The recovery portion jumped all over the place timewise which I found a bit difficult to follow.

 

As I read I had a real problem with his negativity during that time because I was in the hospital, confined to a bed for over 100 days while pregnant. It was scary, but I was grateful and tried my hardest to be pleasant to everyone because they were helping me save my baby. This man was a dreadful patient and I read and cringed for about 80 pages. A friend did eventually explain to him that he needed to be more appreciative of his friends who were trying to help him, and he was. I suspect I missed something important in the later pages of this book because of my experience.

 

I also want to apologise to my goodreads friends because I just put a stack of books on my currently reading list. I am getting ready to go to my mom's and will only have short periods of time on the internet. In order to hopefully get the bulk of my books recorded I put everything on my kindle in currently reading so I can quickly switch to read. I lost my paper list one year....

[Lady Florida.]

I am slowly coming back into the world after my baby's birth a little over a week ago. Abigail Therese was born on Feb. 5, 7 lbs 11 oz, 20 inches long, with lots and lots of dark hair with really surprising blonde highlights. She also almost certainly has Down Syndrome. We are waiting on the test results, but it is highly unlikely that they will be negative. This was quite a shock as I had had no prenatal testing and there were no markers on my ultrasound. She does have some heart defects which may require surgery, but as of the moment, she is doing really well. I, of course, have shifted my reading to all Down Syndrome related titles, as I found I knew next to nothing about it. I am not sure how much I will be able to participate going forward, but I have to say that right now it is nice to have my Goodreads feed to scroll through at the end of the day just to have something a little normal.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Welcome Abigail Therese!  :grouphug: Hugs to you and your family, Angela. In my field of education I worked with many people (children and adults) with Down Syndrome. They are as varied individuals as the rest of the population. 

 

Congenital heart defects are not uncommon, but are fortunately fixable with modern medicine. 

 

You have a long road ahead that will be filled with laughter and tears. Life is taking you down an unexpected path. I wish your family the best as you head down this new road.

[Chrysalis Academy]

All right.  Re: Passage.  What do y'all think was going on, back in Mosque, when they hit the "jackal"?  (Please reply before reading spoiler...)

 

 

 

I think this ambiguous episode may be coloring my reading a great deal (including the question of intentionally unreliable narrator) and I'm curious what my fellow readers thought of it.

 

I don't know how to do that cool spoiler thingy.  But I agree with your interpretation and think it is odd we never revisited that episode, although I think if I remember rightly Adela does refer to it once, near the end - without resolving the ambiguity. I thought it was perhaps a foreshadowing of what was to come? The fact that Adela could be knocked off the path she had chosen - not marrying Ronnie - by this one event - trivial? dramatic? depends on what they hit - kind of fits in with her (melo)dramatic (over or wrong)reaction at the cave.  Maybe?  In neither case does she come across as a very stable person, which is at odds with how she is explicitly portrayed - pragmatic, prosaic, unromantic. .  . . unattractive? Although that doesn't automatically correlate with the first three.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Chrysalis Academy

[idnib]

I think this ambiguous episode may be coloring my reading a great deal (including the question of intentionally unreliable narrator) and I'm curious what my fellow readers thought of it.

 

Interesting. I admit I didn't even think about this episode once it was over, although I should have because a fair amount of space was devoted to it. This could change the angle with which I am approaching the story.

[Jane in NC]

Regarding Pam's thesis I offer an article from the Duke University Press, an academic journal piece that deftly demonstrates the reason I never became an English major! The abstract is in the spoiler below.

 

 

This article argues that the central episode in E. M. Forster’s A Passage to India is not the incident at the Marabar Caves, as decades of critics have argued, but the car accident preceding the expedition to the caves. Focusing on the specifics of the accident, and especially the figure of the hyena upon which the accident is blamed, it proposes that the novel advances an indeterminate ethics of alterity that prefigures the insights of Emmanuel Levinas and Jacques Derrida. Tracing the cultural histories of the hyena in West and South Asia, as well as in England, it argues that the hyena is a marker of ambiguity and indeterminacy implicitly bound up with questions of race, sex and sexuality, and ethics. Following Forster’s language closely, the article illustrates how Forster links the figure of the hyena together with a thematics of spectrality that crosses cultural boundaries in the novel. Finally, it suggests that this dynamic is characteristic of modernism more broadly and indicates a crucial means by which modernism anticipates and paves the way for later theoretical insights.

 

 

Now for my own meandering thoughts on that scene:

 

 

Mrs. Moore is insistent that the car hit a ghost. Whatever was hit, chance entered into the equation of the characters' lives. Chance threw Adela and Ronnie back together as opposed to either making a mature decision.

This happens repeatedly in the novel as in everyday life. Decisions are not finalized until chance forces our hand. Only later do both Adela and Ronnie have the ability to make real decisions for themselves--however we wish to judge them. For me, this is part of their passage.

 

[Stacia]

I finished Santiago Gamboa's Necropolis.

 

I'm not even sure what I think of it. It's a relatively long & meandering book with stylistic touches reminiscent of both The Decameron & The Canterbury Tales. Some of the tales & digressions are more interesting than others. There are various tales but, ultimately, there is an overall story arc that is completed. And, there are many, many literary references & tips of the hat woven throughout the book. Reading some other reviews of this book made me realize that it is part of a newer Latin American literary genre classified as McOndo (a riff on Macondo, the fictional town in GGM's One Hundred Years of Solitude), a style of writing by Latin American writers who are wanting to escape the overall prevalence & expectation that magical realism be an integral part of the story.

 

A solid 3 stars.

 

ETA: Rose, are you still interested in this one for your 'pick a book by its cover' selection? If so, let me know & I'll drop it in the mail to you.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Stacia

[Chrysalis Academy]

I finished Santiago Gamboa's Necropolis.

 

I'm not even sure what I think of it. It's a relatively long & meandering book with stylistic touches reminiscent of both The Decameron & The Canterbury Tales. Some of the tales & digressions are more interesting than others. There are various tales but, ultimately, there is an overall story arc that is completed. And, there are many, many literary references & tips of the hat woven throughout the book. Reading some other reviews of this book made me realize that it is part of a newer Latin American literary genre classified as McOndo (a riff on Macondo, the fictional town in GGM's One Hundred Years of Solitude), a style of writing by Latin American writers who are wanting to escape the overall prevalence & expectation that magical realism be an integral part of the story.

 

A solid 3 stars.

 

ETA: Rose, are you still interested in this one for your 'pick a book by its cover' selection? If so, let me know & I'll drop it in the mail to you.

 

Yes, thank you. It sounds intriguing. I like literary allusions and don't love magical realism ;) , so it sounds like something I'd enjoy. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I finished a book today: Answers to Questions Teachers Ask About Sensory Integration.  This is the most succinct book of questionnaires, checklists, and classroom accommodations that I have seen.  I've read fairly extensively on sensory processing disorder, and this is the first time I remember reading helpful information on sensory based postural disorder.  It's something rarely covered separately; it tends to get lumped into dyspraxia if it's mentioned at all.  Anyway, this was a truly helpful book and the questionnaires are what we were given during intake for occupational therapy. I recognized them. ;)

 

ETA: that was book #11 for me for the year

 

Edited February 16, 2016 by kbeal

[Pam in CT]

Hmmm.  Despite almost a week of gestating, I'm afraid I'm still not ready for prime time re: Passage.

 

I dunno about the Duke thesis that "the novel advances an indeterminate ethics of alterity that prefigures the insights of Emmanuel Levinas and Jacques Derrida..."  I don't think that's my challenge -- I actually don't have the vaguest idea what that even MEANS, lol.

 

But.  (Spoiler alert)

 

Starting with the jackal/ hyena/ ? scene, I as a reader carried a perspective that Adela and to a lesser extent Mrs Moore carried a nagging anxiety/unsettled feeling of not-quite-acknowledged guilt that they hadn't bothered to stop and investigate.  And I kept thinking we'd come back and resolve, or at least address, what had happened.  And we didn't.

 

So when we got to the caves -- and Mrs. Moore has her first, not-disastrous-but-nearly-so, encounter with the baby's bottom, and she was rattled but not quite unmoored (no wisecracks kareni) by it, I experienced her experience as taking her back to that earlier, not-investigated-still-unsettled episode.  Things aren't necessarily what we assume.  She didn't quite lose it at that point, but she was too rattled to go on... and she never really returned to her (amiable, Christian, self-assured) self.  For me, when she ran away (as surely, she did) she was running away from the muddle of complicity, of standing by rather than chasing down the truth (which, as a reader, we exasperatingly don't know, of either event) and standing up for it even in the face of her community norms.  

 

And when Adela had her (ambiguous) cave experience -- whatever happened, she too was carrying that nagging anxiety/unsettled feeling of not-quite-acknowledged guilt.  At first she was swept along by prevailing norms / community outrage... but then ultimately (not through a cerebral decision, but in a swept-up-in-the-moment-compulsion) she kinda-sorta did the right thing, except not really fully, since it never occurred to her, on her own, to apologize to Aziz or even acknowledge the time he spent in jail falsely accused.  (OT but: I have to believe jail, then, there, was pretty dang miserable.  Forster doesn't really go there, and I can't quite figure out whether he expects us to fill in the blanks, or not.)

 

 

And then: what do we think about Aziz' (generous, unrecognized and unthanked, spot-on) assessment, that in not pressing Adela for damages, he allows her to retain her fortune so that she can attract a mate; and thereafter, his (mournful, equivocal, spot-on) assessment that Fielding will go forth and marry her for just that reason?  The Muslims are the hopelessly helplessly emotional ones who can't penetrate the veil of cold logic?

 

 

The first third, I read as about encounters of individuals across cultures (and the immense difficulties of achieving real connections across the divide)... but the rest of the book, I increasingly read as about encounter between individuals and their own blind spots / complicity / challenges between doing (or at least trying to do) the Right Thing vs going along with prevailing community expectations.

 

 

 

 

Thank you, Jane.  I expect I'll remember it better thirty years from now...

 

 

[Kareni]

 

So when we got to the caves -- and Mrs. Moore has her first, not-disastrous-but-nearly-so, encounter with the baby's bottom, and she was rattled but not quite unmoored (no wisecracks kareni) by it, I experienced her experience as taking her back to that earlier, not-investigated-still-unsettled episode.  

 

Well, drats!  I was just getting ready to unleash some witticism ....

 

**

 

I'm about a third of the way through my book group book; we'll be meeting on Thursday to discuss Nicole Krauss'  The History of Love.  A number of others in the group had read this previously and raved about it.  I need to read more to decide how I feel about it.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[prairiewindmomma]

I finally finished two more off my stack:

Homeschooling the child with Asperger Syndrome by Lise Pyles &

Asperger's Teens: Understanding High School for Students on the Autism Spectrum

 

The first title seemed more a reflection of her experiences and others. I have found a lot of the same bits to be true in our experience, and while there was some discussion about how homeschooling a child with ASD is different than general homeschooling, I wish that there was more coverage on those nuances.  Personally, I find homeschooling NT and non-NT kids to be very different experiences.

 

The second title is a great springboard for discussion on soft social skills, building executive functioning skills and moving toward independent living. It's a gem, and something I'm going to utilize more fully with my kids who are near the spectrum but not on it.