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I get so depressed reading some posts on this board....


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Why is it depressing and demoralizing to acknowledge "My kid struggles in math and will barely get through Algebra 2, but she's an excellent artist and is kind and compassionate and a hard worker"? Or "My dyslexic son hates to read, so we are going really light on literature and are focusing on practical writing tasks instead of literary analysis, but he loves tinkering with computers and is building one out of spare parts."

These types of comments assume that a student who struggles in some areas excels in other areas. That's not always the case. Some students aren't excelling anywhere. Some are just struggling.

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That depends on how hard they make you fight for that A.

The student who claws his way way to the top through sleep deprivation and low blood sugar by sheer force of will... you bet he is struggling in every sense of the word... including the overwhelming sensation of drowning that "barely keeping head above water" implies

The difference being that he doesn't.

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The difference being that he doesn't.

 

???

So we are supposed to use the term "struggle" only if the fight is, in effect, futile? So a struggle that is successful is not a struggle, only those who struggle in vain truly struggle?

Makes no sense to me, but whatever...

Edited by regentrude
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???

So we are supposed to use the term "struggle" only if the fight is, in fact, futile?

Makes no sense to me, but whatever...

Context.

 

There is struggling and making it to the top.

There is struggling and drowning anyway.

 

Both are struggles, but the outcomes are very different. I wouldn't compare the two, but that's just me. YMMV.

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Ok,to sum it up then Tara has a student using TT which in her words is a relatively easy text (which I am assuming is less offensive than lighter) and struggles with its content and may never be on par with peers is a struggling student. But we can't offer advice on texts we think might be appropriate for struggling students bc that imples those students using those texts are struggling students.

 

Kids who have struggled in the past which was at that time our present and we had no idea that one day that they would be able to function on the same level as their peers were not struggling students bc in the then future they do.

 

Kids who make As don't struggle. I will inform my Aspie of that.

 

It is ridiculous that people feel like they can quantify everyone else's experiences.

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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???

So we are supposed to use the term "struggle" only if the fight is, in effect, futile? So a struggle that is successful is not a struggle, only those who struggle in vain truly struggle?

Makes no sense to me, but whatever...

 

Yeah, I'm not really following this argument either. It assumes there's no such thing as a student who struggles yet also manages to succeed — at least at something. If the student succeeds, then by definition he must not have really struggled. The extent to which someone struggled can only be determined retroactively, after he has failed. 

 

:confused1:

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I suspect that the non-overachieving kids are more likely to end up in public school before high school.   If the kid is an eager learner who is ahead academically, it is pretty much a no-brainer to keep homeschooling, if at all possible.  Whereas if the kids whines or seems behind, it is a different story.   

 

I don't understand this reasoning.  "______ is behind and struggling with 1:1 help, so let's put him in a classroom with 30 kids."  

 

That seems so backwards to me and what I've seen.

 

 I've also heard, "______ is way above "normal" so I can't keep up with her or provide the next level that she needs.  I'm sending her to school so she can be "challenged."  (BTW, I hate the word "normal." )  While I agree that there are some very fantastic teachers that CAN teach a child on a higher level, most of the time, schools are going to divert attention and resources to the middle of the pack.  Some will aim to help the children struggling.  Gifted students are often the last population to receive special attention and effort, imo.

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But the student may be genuinely struggling in that class and working his behind off to make it.

 

My extraordinarily gifted DD has classes in which she is definitely struggling. If you are spending 13 hours on a single weekly homework assignment, study for many hours for exams to receive a 60% on the test, worry about failing the class - that is struggling, even if it eventually results in an A.

 

As a college instructor, I see students struggle in engineering physics all the time. Some fail, some end up excelling - but it may have been through gruelling work and emotional turmoil. Just because it is a high level class and they end up with a good result does not mean their struggle is not real, or their process could have been described through a verb that implies an easier time.

 

Struggling has nothing to do with inherent ability or an absolute scale; it is always relative to the circumstance and goal.

Conversely, one can say that a student who is never given the gift of struggle has been short changed and not adequately challenged.

 

Regentrude, you have said it so much better than I did.  I agree completely.

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It is ridiculous that people feel like they can quantify everyone else's experiences.

That's not what I was trying to do. But I do find it puzzling that you seem not to see the difference between a kid who can get A's and a kid who struggles to get C's and not understand how it might sting to be told that the A student is a struggling student.

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1. I think that if someone is asking for book/curriculum/class suggestions, they should say "I am searching for X because of reasons ABC" instead of the very common "what do you use for X?" or "what's good for X?" with no or few details.

 

Context is everything.

 

Waiting until 15 people have responded with their choices to give details about the specific situation is counterproductive and can lead to hurt feelings.

 

2. For a while on the logic stage board I felt the need to add a disclaimer to my posts about dd being accelerated and to take that into consideration. (I had received some unkind comments about my lack of helpfulness.) I'll have to start doing that again.

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I think this thread has become unproductive.

 

Well, I have just re-read the entire thread, and although it has wandered off from the original topic, I have found it has given me a lot to think about, specifically about the importance of effort vs achievement to life long outcome. Clearly both are important, but I am hearing so much in this thread about achievement (specific classes, keeping up with the Jones, student comparisons in class level) and I feel like people are underplaying the importance of struggle in the development of character.  I work with students at both ends of the spectrum, so I have seen a lot and am trying to integrate this thread into my own experience.  Fascinating, really.

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That's not what I was trying to do. But I do find it puzzling that you seem not to see the difference between a kid who can get A's and a kid who struggles to get C's and not understand how it might sting to be told that the A student is a struggling student.

My child is making As now but if he had been in school when he was younger he wouldn't have. He struggled mightily learning how to read. He still spells like a.third grader. Yes, he now makes As, but when he was

10 I had no idea if he would be able to write anything coherent bc he could barely write bc his reading and spelling were so low.

 

Just bc you are in the thick of it doesn't mean no one else can relate or that while things for them improve that they still don't struggle.

 

And my Aspie made As easily, but can barely.manage being a donation greeter at Goodwill.

 

Struggles exist for lots of people. No one is diminishing your.child's struggles. But his do not diminish theirs either.

 

On my phone

Edited by 8FillTheHeart
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That's not what I was trying to do. But I do find it puzzling that you seem not to see the difference between a kid who can get A's and a kid who struggles to get C's and not understand how it might sting to be told that the A student is a struggling student.

 

I just told one of my students that even though her school is allowing her to take AP chem, that her grades for 11th grade chem are too low and she missed too many assessments to be able to do AP Chem. So she is retaking 11th grade chem. She wants to be a neurobiologist and has dyscalculia.  So will she have to work harder than others to get to her dream? of course.  But here's the thing, the harder she works and struggles, the stronger her work ethic and persistence will be.  Her fight might be the making of her and allow her to out-compete others who have had it easy but never learned grit because of it.

 

My grandfather was a chemist who worked on synthetic rubber and then the bomb.  He told me once "Geniuses in my field are a dime a dozen.  Give me a hard worker any day of the week over a genius."  His message was clear.

 

Grit is critical in life long outcome.  I teach ALL my students this, regardless of whether they are at the top or the bottom of the curve. I absolutely have students with greater innate skill who will not go nearly as far in life as kids who have struggled all through school.  The difference *is* the struggle they have experienced not the actual courses they have taken.  

 

Ruth in NZ 

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...

 

Struggling has nothing to do with inherent ability or an absolute scale; it is always relative to the circumstance and goal.

Conversely, one can say that a student who is never given the gift of struggle has been short changed and not adequately challenged.

 

This.

This.

This.

 

Time reading the accelerated board has taught me that if one of the fairy godmothers in Sleeping Beauty had really wanted to give the baby princess a useful gift at her naming, she would have given her the gift of being normal.  But probably she would never have made it out of the castle alive. It is a most under-appreciated trait.

 

What I don't understand is why people from the accelerated board aren't allowed to talk about their struggles and successes.  As Regentrude says, struggle all depends on the goal.  It is relative.  And the really discouraging part, to me, is that many of those people are also posting on the learning challenges board because of asynchronous development.  Even I, who compared to many of the posters there have relatively normal children, had a child who at ten cried when he had to write more than a word or two, who was deemed "dangerously incompetent" in math, who at thirteen was incapable of tying his shoes, who caused me no end of despair about how he was ever going to get into college and even worse, stay there.  I happen to know that one's IQ (only one I do) and he meets the technical definition of gifted.  Does that mean that he wasn't struggling or that I have no right to sympathize with the original poster?  One of his brothers was totally unmotivated in high school and barely graduated.  Another brother insisted on learning to read when he was 4 and is now barely treading water at a not very hard to get into engineering school.  It is all SO relative.  None of my children are particularly academic-minded and they certainly aren't what I would call bright.  Their cousins are bright.  Mine are just sort of bright-ish, if you catch them on a good day in an area that they are interested in.  Mostly, they are ... odd.  And that oddness causes no end of problems, believe me.

 

There was an enormous amount of struggle in my homeschool (and in my children's lives sigh).  As soon as they could do something without a struggle, I found something harder for them to do.  Isn't that how one grows?

 

I don't think it is possible to judge someone else's struggle.  I don't think it is possible to say "this struggle is more than that struggle".

 

OP - I completely understand why you feel depressed.  It IS depressing when your child appears not to be able to do things other people's children can do and you are second-guessing everything you are doing trying to figure out if this is your fault or not.

 

I've only read the last two pages of this thread, so if this doesn't apply, please forgive me...

 

 I would say that there are two approaches to homeschooling.  In one, you focus on teaching academic subjects.  If the child isn't challenged, you fish around to find ways to provide that challenge.  Your child fails and struggles and you and the child put a ton of energy into their academic education.  The other way to approach homeschooling is to find an "age appropriate" (quotes because that phrase strikes terror in the heart of this mother of late bloomers) curriculum, something about equivalent to what public schools in your area are doing, and help your child move through it, adjusting it only when it is obvious it isn't working at all, and put your energy into other, non-academic parts of life.  Either approach is valid.  Probably we all wind up doing a mix of the two, anyway.  But the point is, that if the first approach, a common one here, might not be right for your family, at least at this time.  And that is ok.  Maybe it is not right because your child doesn't find academic subjects nearly as interesting as, say, horses.  Or maybe it is because you lucked out and have one of those children who survives their teenage years by sort of sleeping through them (much easier than the ones who try to alleviate boredom by trying to kill themselves doing stupid things).  Or maybe you have a late bloomer.  Or an easy going, non-ambitious child.  Or one with brain wiring that makes most academics difficult so you decide to focus on something else.  Or...

 

You asked what is not happening in your homeschool...  I think it is important to compare what you are doing to what others are doing in order to get new ideas and to get some idea of whether you are doing enough to accomplish your goals, but I think you need to pick people with similar goals to yours when you do your comparing.  People here aren't particularly typical.  It might be better to look public school statistics?  Are you putting enough time into school work?  Students in public school put between 1 and 2 hours into math daily.  The higher classes will probably be putting in at least an hour and a half, maybe two and a half, between their class time and their homework.  If you are feeling behind, it might just be a function of the amount of time you are putting into a subject.  Or it might be that you are using a curriculum that doesn't teach in a way that your child can learn.  Or it might just be that your student is where he or she is and you are doing everything right.  When I got insecure, I found checking the time during the day spent doing each skill  was helpful.  When I did this the year I wondered why my children weren't advancing in essay writing, I discovered  that they weren't advancing because they were spending about half an hour a week writing essays.  Oops.  Another time when we were spinning our wheels, it was because I had chopped the school day up into tiny time slots (the perils of reading about Charlotte Mason).  My children weren't quick to focus.  We also didn't really get anywhere until I figured out how my particular children learn - everything related to the big picture, review many times the first day of memorizing something, etc.  I found we had to drop everything and focus on study skills for awhile, once the academics got harder.  And there were lots of subjects that we deliberately did as sketchily as possible because nobody was interested in them.  That was ok because we were putting plenty of energy elsewhere.  Those are some of the things *I* was not doing.  If they don't apply to you, just ignore them grin.  As I said, it may be that you are doing exactly what you should be.  Every family is unique.

 

Nan

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That's not what I was trying to do. But I do find it puzzling that you seem not to see the difference between a kid who can get A's and a kid who struggles to get C's and not understand how it might sting to be told that the A student is a struggling student.

 

If DS had just sat there sobbing for 7-8 hrs/wk in Greek 1, instead of 15, he would have gotten a C or D — would that grade then qualify him as a "struggling student"? But struggling twice as hard, in order to accomplish something that even I thought was out of his reach, somehow invalidates the struggle?

 

Do you not see how it would sting for a student, who pushed himself to the absolute limit in order to accomplish something that was incredibly difficult for him, to be told that his struggle doesn't count, precisely because he did succeed?

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"Does not provide the depth and coverage of other, more standard high school math programs" sounds factual and objective while "light" seems a lot more subjective.

 

When people are stressed/demoralised and feelings run high, seeing their curriculum choice describe as "light" kind of stinks emotionally.

 

Good natured question, not challenging you. Isn't the bolded just more words to describe the same thing? I think you are right about emotions running high. But that's the nature of emotions...they blind us and who is to say "does not provide depth and coverage etc." wouldn't be perceived as subjective too? "Light" just says it more quickly. Some people see "easier" and get upset too. There's just no winning an argument when emotions run high.

 

 

An earned grade is a grade that is EARNED. It is the result of hard work, whether it is an A or a C and all achievements through struggle should be celebrated. If all I cared about was his grade, I would have signed him up for only easy classes to boost his GPA. There is no question that I should place him in classes that are appropriate, but may require some effort.

 

 

Yes!

 

I just told one of my students that even though her school is allowing her to take AP chem, that her grades for 11th grade chem are too low and she missed too many assessments to be able to do AP Chem. So she is retaking 11th grade chem. She wants to be a neurobiologist and has dyscalculia.  So will she have to work harder than others to get to her dream? of course.  But here's the thing, the harder she works and struggles, the stronger her work ethic and persistence will be.  Her fight might be the making of her and allow her to out-compete others who have had it easy but never learned grit because of it.

 

My grandfather was a chemist who worked on synthetic rubber and then the bomb.  He told me once "Geniuses in my field are a dime a dozen.  Give me a hard worker any day of the week over a genius."  His message was clear.

 

Grit is critical in life long outcome.  I teach ALL my students this, regardless of whether they are at the top or the bottom of the curve. I absolutely have students with greater innate skill who will not go nearly as far in life as kids who have struggled all through school.  The difference *is* the struggle they have experienced not the actual courses they have taken.  

 

Ruth in NZ 

 

Again, not challenging, just wondering. Doesn't this assume that grit only comes through academics though?

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Not once did I ever say that people's struggles don't count. I never said that.

 

My oldest has several diagnosed learning disabilities. She is in college making A's and B's. She has to work harder than her peers and spend much more time on her studies than her peers to achieve comparable results. I do not describe her as struggling. To me, struggling means putting in the effort and *not* achieving the results.

 

I guess this is something we will not agree on.

Edited by TaraTheLiberator
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Good natured question, not challenging you. Isn't the bolded just more words to describe the same thing

The depth part can be subjective. The scope and sequence part is easy to quantify. For example the AoPS books scope and sequence does not tally with California 1997 (pre common core) standards. I was bored enough to read the old standards and do the tally with the books many years ago.

 

That is why I don't use depth or light or rigor when commenting on curriculum. Only whether it tally with the typical public school textbooks if someone is using a charter for funds and need to prep their child for state testing. Obviously curriculum doesn't need to tally perfectly to do well for state tests. However no one wants their child to fail the prob and stats portion if they can just prep their child a few days before state testing for that portion.

 

ETA:

My friend asked me to accompany her for TOEFL and I scored higher despite a fever that day. She was crushed because she studied and prep like crazy and english is her first language. There was nothing I can do about it :( She finally got over feeling down but there is still that residue of sadness.

Edited by Arcadia
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Again, not challenging, just wondering. Doesn't this assume that grit only comes through academics though?

 

I do think that a lot of schools around here focus on athletics because many kids learn grit through sports and then this can be carried through to academic. But in my own personal experience, the most gritty children are the ones with learning disabilities.  They have struggled for 6 hours a day for years in the school system.  My kids with dyslexia and dyscalculia are way grittier than the kids who have gone far in basketball and mountain biking.  Small sample I know, but perhaps it has to do with the actual number of hours that they have  had to struggle each day.  Not saying it is easy or that they couldn't have done it without a private tutor, but the gritty children are now coming into their own at 17.

Edited by lewelma
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I didn't mean me in specific. I mean the idea that a student with an A is a struggling student is part of the climate here that makes it seem like it's normal to be a super high achiever.

 

Is there a difference between saying that someone "is a struggling student" and saying that someone is "struggling in a class"?  

 

I see a difference there.  I struggled through many of my college math and science courses.  I have a pretty solid collection of Cs, Ds and an F.  I also had As in most of my majors courses and my foreign language courses.  I was only unsat one semester (after the F) and never had an average that put me in danger of not graduating (though I did have to retake the F course).

 

To say that a certain preparation may create a situation in which a student struggles is not the same as saying that the student is a failure.

 

My kids attempted the algebra based Knight Jones Physics text a few years ago.  They had done algebra, but that level math was NOT automatic for them yet.  The physics was a disaster.  This year, ds2 is redoing that text, but he is now in pre-calculus/trig.  He has commented about how much easier the work is now.

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To me, struggling means putting in the effort and *not* achieving the results.

 

 

 

But my kid with dyscalculia really really struggled through 11th grade statistics, and she got at B!!!  How can I say she did not struggle because of the outcome?

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I think there is a difference between something being difficult for you and having to work hard at it and something being so difficult for you that you can't achieve. To me, that's the difference between a struggling student and one who just has to work hard.

 

My dd, btw, would be appalled if people called her a struggling student just because she has to work harder.

 

And now I am done discussing this.

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I suspect that the non-overachieving kids are more likely to end up in public school before high school.   If the kid is an eager learner who is ahead academically, it is pretty much a no-brainer to keep homeschooling, if at all possible.  Whereas if the kids whines or seems behind, it is a different story.   

This has been discussed up-thread.

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I do think that a lot of schools around here focus on athletics because many kids learn grit through sports and then this can be carried through to academic. But in my own personal experience, the most gritty children are the ones with learning disabilities.  They have struggled for 6 hours a day for years in the school system.  My kids with dyslexia and dyscalculia are way grittier than the kids who have gone far in basketball and mountain biking.  Small sample I know, but perhaps it has to do with the actual number of hours that they have  had to struggle each day.  Not saying it is easy or that they couldn't have done it without a private tutor, but the gritty children are now coming into their own at 17.

 

Thanks Ruth. I was thinking past academics and sports actually. I was thinking of kids who wake up at dawn to milk cows. Kids balancing jobs and school. Kids in broken families. Kids not motivated to do well in school but more than motivated to protect a mom from an abusive father. Kids struggling with receiving attention and love (yes, definitely a struggle too in my book) in wealthier families that depend on babysitters to nurture the child because parents are too busy with their jobs. I think academics and sports build a certain type of grit too but I was wondering if too much of this conversation was centered around this type of grit vs handling the curve balls that life throws at us in different situations.

 

But maybe not on topic given this thread is about academics. Was just wondering too if OP considered that angle with her kids. Perhaps they are motivated but just not what she perceives as motivation since she feels that academically they are not overachievers.

 

Sorry for the diversion!

 

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But why???

 

Do people really want to pretend that there is no difference between MUS and Foersters? Or between Hewitt and Giancoli, Visual Latin and Lukeion, or IEW and AP English Language and Lit? 

 

If someone is using a curriculum that is on the "lighter" end of the spectrum, and that curriculum is working well for their kids, then yay, they've found the right program for their kids. That's awesome! Why is it necessary to pretend that all curricula are the same level of depth and rigor? Why is it depressing and demoralizing to acknowledge "My kid struggles in math and will barely get through Algebra 2, but she's an excellent artist and is kind and compassionate and a hard worker"? Or "My dyslexic son hates to read, so we are going really light on literature and are focusing on practical writing tasks instead of literary analysis, but he loves tinkering with computers and is building one out of spare parts." What's wrong with those things? IMO, nothing. Not. One. Thing.

 

There's a reason that colleges provide very different courses for science majors and nonmajors — are the kids in the Physics of Everyday Life course supposed to be depressed and demoralized because they're not taking Calc-based Physics for Scientists and Engineers? Of course not. So why the angst over the same thing in high school?

Nobody wants to pretend anything. Context is everything. If every reply was typed with the same care and thought as some replies on this thread, we would be less likely to be having this conversation.

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FWIW, a comment on the original topic.

 

I think it really helps when people put context into their early posts, both when they start a new thread and in initial replies.

 

When someone asks for help in a subject, but doesn't mention that they have a child with LDs or a full time dancer or are pregnant or in chemo or away from home caring for a sick relative or in the middle of a move, replies can seem unhelpful.  Similarly it helps to know what goals are or what limitations are.  If there isn't a library nearby, then book intensive curriculum might not fit.  If the student is striving for MIT, then they have certain goals.  If they are reaching for Julliard, their math prep might look completely different.

 

Similarly, there isn't a commonly accepted definition of "did fine" or "got into a good college" or "inexpensive curriculum".  

 

I haven't seen many posters being intentionally mean.  But we don't all start from the same expectations or have the same community resources.  There are significant difference in college requirements and special program requirements.  

 

One of the colleges DS applied to had middle 50% math scores of 790-800.  That means only 25% of the students applying to that school had lower than 790 in math and more than 25% had perfect scores.  On the other hand, the local university (which has some very strong departments and some so so departments) has a median math score of 551.  That is right around the benchmark score for the SAT.  A student with a 650 would probably not get a second look at the first school, but might get merit aid at the second.  Context matters.  Sometimes it matters a lot.

 

I have found it helpful when people explain that their kid had preparation X and had acceptances Y with scholarship $Z.  

 

 

 

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Because this post was not about the accererated board. It is about the *high school* board.

 

Kathy, you may not realize it, but there are basically only 2 or 3 high school aged kids being discussed on the accelerated board, and that is because we have been there from when our kids were young.  It is basically a K-8 accelerated board.  

 

Ruth in NZ

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Thanks Ruth. I was thinking past academics and sports actually. I was thinking of kids who wake up at dawn to milk cows. Kids balancing jobs and school. Kids in broken families. Kids not motivated to do well in school but more than motivated to protect a mom from an abusive father. Kids struggling with receiving attention and love (yes, definitely a struggle too in my book) in wealthier families that depend on babysitters to nurture the child because parents are too busy with their jobs. I think academics and sports build a certain type of grit too but I was wondering if too much of this conversation was centered around this type of grit vs handling the curve balls that life throws at us in different situations.

 

But maybe not on topic given this thread is about academics. Was just wondering too if OP considered that angle with her kids. Perhaps they are motivated but just not what she perceives as motivation since she feels that academically they are not overachievers.

 

Sorry for the diversion!

 

Absolutely, just read Hunter's posts and you will see that some kids definitely learn grit through as she calls it a 'man's work.' And some days I think that I have done my children a serious disservice by not incorporating more of a man's work into their lives. 

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Do you think it is possible to look above you, where it shows what board you are currently posting on right now? It might help. Thanks.

 

ETA: The op was neither posted on nor referencing the accelerated board. You are currently on the High School board.

Edited by KathyBC
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Kathy, you may not realize it, but there are basically only 2 or 3 high school aged kids being discussed on the accelerated board, and that is because we have been there from when our kids were young.  It is basically a K-8 accelerated board.  

 

Ruth in NZ

 

I never hung out on the accelerated board, even when my kids WERE K-8.  I found the wider discussions on the General and High School Boards helped me more.

 

I would hate to think that parents on one end of the ability/achievement spectrum were being told they were only welcome in a certain area of the boards.  I love to see posts from lots of different perspectives.  I am as delighted in our friend who is had two jobs at a Starbucks and a Safeway and is headed to an electrician's apprenticeship as with our other friend who had a full ROTC scholarship as with our third friend who is working on her linguistics masters degree at a top drawer university.

 

I don't think that parents of kids with challenges, parents of average kids or parents of kids who are excelling should be told that they really ought to restrict themselves to some other section of the board.  (It's one thing to say that you may have better responses in a different section.  It is something else to say that they ought not be posting here or there.  ~Not that this is what I think you are suggesting, Lewelma.)

Edited by Sebastian (a lady)
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Do you think it is possible to look above you, where it shows what board you are currently posting on right now? It might help. Thanks.

 

Please spell this out for me as I don't want to misunderstand you? Do you mean to say that accelerated issues should only be posted on the accelerated board even if the issue is at or past the high school level?

 

Sometimes, the people who can answer the question don't frequent the accelerated board. Apologies if I misunderstood you.

 

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Please spell this out for me as I don't want to misunderstand you? Do you mean to say that accelerated issues should only be posted on the accelerated board even if the issue is at or past the high school level?

 

Sometimes, the people who can answer the question don't frequent the accelerated board. Apologies if I misunderstood you.

 

Well, it took awhile but we seem to be coming closer to successful communication. The point of most of the initial replies was that the high school board seems to contain majority posts from the accelerated community, making it difficult for the general population to take part. It might be nice to see this addressed.

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Well, it took awhile but we seem to be coming closer to successful communication. The point of most of the initial replies was that the high school board seems to contain majority posts from the accelerated community, making it difficult for the general population to take part. It might be nice to see this addressed.

 

Why is it difficult for the general population to take part? What is it that accelerated kiddos' parents post that stops the general population from posting? (I know you didn't mean this or maybe you did -- therein lies the rub with online communication no? -- but I can be very slow on the uptake :laugh: ).

 

Edited by quark
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I would say that your child was really challenged by the statistics class, but I would not say she struggled.  A struggling student would not have made a B.

 

 

 

****************

 

My emotions are running high with this thread -- which I concede is my own problem and no one's fault -- so if you'll excuse me, I'm going to bow out of this thread now, before I do something stupid.  (LOL)

I know you said you were bowing out of the conversation, so perhaps I should not respond to this. But I find these distinctions very confusing.

 

I teach a girl who is in MUS gamma at age 15.  She doesn't find it easy, but she does not struggle.  I don't think, however, that she could really move faster. She just learns a little bit each week and keeps moving forward. Slow and steady, and with a smile on her face.  We have to work at a *incredibly* low level for her to understand, way lower than the DVDs, but she is happy and satisfied with her progress.

 

But the dyscalculia girl I teach who cannot subtract 10-8 (and last time she did, it was with a tally chart and she got 3) did *struggle* through statistics.  It was seriously hard and frustrating because she could NOT get any of the calculations.  Luckily it was mostly a qualitative course, but it did have a quantitative final which she came to me for 45 HOURS to get a B. Private tutoring for 45 hours for a single exam is pretty unusual.  

 

Which girl struggled vs was challenged.  The distinction is just not so clear cut. 

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Why is it difficult for the general population to take part? What is it that accelerated kiddos' parents post that stops the general population from posting? (I know you didn't mean this or maybe you did -- therein lies the rub with online communication no? -- but I can be very slow on the uptake :laugh: ).

 

I'm sorry. Really. But if you have to ask the question... 

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No, no, I read that in her post. I'm sincere though, if you cannot imagine the parent of an average child wandering over to the high school board to see what everyone is doing for grade 9, seeing the overwhelming number of posts dealing with advanced academic topics, then I can't explain it well enough for you to understand.

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I'm sorry. Really. But if you have to ask the question... 

 

I think all of us need to examine our own insecurities. :sad: But it would be really sad for people to have to stop themselves from posting something because they feel like they are "less" or "too much" you know? I think I make mistakes all the time. Or am not good enough all the time too. My reasons for still going ahead and asking a question here despite feeling less is to learn and to help my kid. I don't feel as if I can ask that question somewhere else. This board has so many wonderful, helpful people who take the trouble to say a word (and often more) that leads me to the right direction. I have so much gratitude for the posters here and the fact that this board exists. I could never participate in some of the writing curriculum threads for example, despite loving to write myself, because I feel like an imposter, and not at all good enough to contribute. But it doesn't stop me from lurking, liking, empathizing, encouraging others. Why do we have to feel as if we need to send some people away to another board or another group so that we can feel comfortable with status quo? Isn't the purpose of the Well Trained Mind to help us challenge our comfort zones?

 

I have no reason to pursue an argument so will leave it here. Take care.

 

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I think all of us need to examine our own insecurities. :sad: But it would be really sad for people to have to stop themselves from posting something because they feel like they are "less" or "too much" you know? I think I make mistakes all the time. Or am not good enough all the time too. My reasons for still going ahead and asking a question here despite feeling less is to learn and to help my kid. I don't feel as if I can ask that question somewhere else. This board has so many wonderful, helpful people who take the trouble to say a word (and often more) that leads me to the right direction. I have so much gratitude for the posters here and the fact that this board exists. I could never participate in some of the writing curriculum threads for example, despite loving to write myself, because I feel like an imposter, and not at all good enough to contribute. But it doesn't stop me from lurking, liking, empathizing, encouraging others. Why do we have to feel as if we need to send some people away to another board or another group so that we can feel comfortable with status quo? Isn't the purpose of the Well Trained Mind to help us challenge our comfort zones?

 

I have no reason to pursue an argument so will leave it here. Take care.

 

On the high school board there is not much for the average homeschooler to lurk on. I too enjoy learning from other folks, but in order to challenge comfort zones, there needs to be a comfort zone in the first place, no? No one wants to send anyone away. The average person feels unwelcome. They are not trying to say others are unwelcome. They are looking for their place here, if possible.

Edited by KathyBC
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Kathy, you may not realize it, but there are basically only 2 or 3 high school aged kids being discussed on the accelerated board, and that is because we have been there from when our kids were young.  It is basically a K-8 accelerated board.  

 

Ruth in NZ

Why is that?

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You asked what is not happening in your homeschool...  I think it is important to compare what you are doing to what others are doing in order to get new ideas and to get some idea of whether you are doing enough to accomplish your goals, but I think you need to pick people with similar goals to yours when you do your comparing.  People here aren't particularly typical.  It might be better to look public school statistics?  Are you putting enough time into school work?  Students in public school put between 1 and 2 hours into math daily.  The higher classes will probably be putting in at least an hour and a half, maybe two and a half, between their class time and their homework.  If you are feeling behind, it might just be a function of the amount of time you are putting into a subject.  Or it might be that you are using a curriculum that doesn't teach in a way that your child can learn.  Or it might just be that your student is where he or she is and you are doing everything right.  When I got insecure, I found checking the time during the day spent doing each skill  was helpful.  When I did this the year I wondered why my children weren't advancing in essay writing, I discovered  that they weren't advancing because they were spending about half an hour a week writing essays.  Oops.  Another time when we were spinning our wheels, it was because I had chopped the school day up into tiny time slots (the perils of reading about Charlotte Mason).  My children weren't quick to focus.  We also didn't really get anywhere until I figured out how my particular children learn - everything related to the big picture, review many times the first day of memorizing something, etc.  I found we had to drop everything and focus on study skills for awhile, once the academics got harder.  And there were lots of subjects that we deliberately did as sketchily as possible because nobody was interested in them.  That was ok because we were putting plenty of energy elsewhere.  Those are some of the things *I* was not doing.  If they don't apply to you, just ignore them grin.  As I said, it may be that you are doing exactly what you should be.  Every family is unique.

 

I don't have a horse in the field yet, but have been trying to do my due diligence in preparing for high school level teaching. Just thought that this was pretty cool to think about. I sometimes struggle with trying to decide how many of "the things" I should do and really, I might be better served by spending more time with a few things. I'm going to have to think more about this. 

 

For purposes of staying on track, yes, I plan to homeschool high school with two very average students. :D And I'm only slightly intimidated when I visit. Except at night. Y'all scare me at night. :willy_nilly:

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Perhaps we could make it a sort of standard approach on the high school board to write "AL content" before an accelerated learners content.  Kind of like CC content on the chat board.  Would that fix the problem?  You simply wouldn't open those threads.

 

Just trying to come to a resolution.  And just an idea.  The accelerated learners board is really K-8, so it just doesn't work for accelerated high schoolers.

 

Ruth in NZ

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Why is that?

Honestly, I have no idea.  It is basically me, Quark, and perhaps one other.

 

Perhaps it is just that there are no parents with higher schoolers that frequent the board, so if you have a high school question, you need to come here to get anyone with any information. Kind of a chicken and egg problem. 

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No, no, I read that in her post. I'm sincere though, if you cannot imagine the parent of an average child wandering over to the high school board to see what everyone is doing for grade 9, seeing the overwhelming number of posts dealing with advanced academic topics, then I can't explain it well enough for you to understand.

 

But there are plenty of people with average kids who do post there, as well as people with struggling kids, or quirky kids, or whatever, who post their opinions or ask for help and advice. So I think Quark's question was a perfectly legitimate one — why is it that some parents of average kids are not bothered in the least by reading about kids who are more advanced than their own, while others are so upset by it they feel they can't ask questions or post here.

 

And the implication that parents with more advanced kids should go somewhere else, so people with average kids won't feel bad, doesn't seem like a very good solution. For one thing, many kids who are advanced in some areas are behind or struggling in other areas. A parent who starts a thread asking what to with a 9th grader who's completed all the AoPS books, may start another asking about remedial writing resources or a super-light history program. Given the fairly limited number of parents who homeschool high school, compared to those who homeschool K-8, I would think that people would want input from as many BTDT parents as possible.

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Why is that?

 

Maybe because the High School board has the singular purpose of covering high school, making it a place where those going through it are more likely to hang out. The Accelerated board is somehow supposed to cover everything from babyhood (people posting threads to ask if their baby is gifted) to preschool to elementary to middle to high school and college support.

Edited by Alte Veste Academy
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Perhaps we could make it a sort of standard approach on the high school board to write "AL content" before an accelerated learners content.  Kind of like CC content on the chat board.  Would that fix the problem?  You simply wouldn't open those threads.

 

Just trying to come to a resolution.  And just an idea.  The accelerated learners board is really K-8, so it just doesn't work for accelerated high schoolers.

 

Ruth in NZ

 

If people feel like too many of the posts on the high school board deal with advanced content, I think the solution is for people with average kids to post more, rather than making it the responsibility of parents with advanced kids to put warning labels on their posts.

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I wouldn't admit to being depressed reading threads here, but I'll fully admit to being spooked. It's already a disquieting thing to be thinking of homeschooling high school. So reading about what I should be getting ready for is a little breathtaking. Kind of like looking over the edge of the cliff and wondering how I'm supposed to repel down that! Might be completely irrational, but I can't read a single thread without thinking ahead to my own drop over the ledge and wondering if I've got it in me.

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