This one is interesting (and short). What thinks the Hive?

[creekland]

I just saw this on my newsfeed this morning and will need to start teaching College Alg very shortly so can't look for anything more in depth about it. (The links in the article would probably work - elsewhere - here they are blocked as pop ups, so I'd have to search for them on my own, but there's that teaching thing I'm going to be getting paid for...)

 

Would love to hear the Hive opinion... and if anyone can track down more info, that would be great.

 

http://www.eveningsun.com/story/news/2016/02/08/mount-st-marys-president-apologizes-provost-resigns/80039318/

[creekland]

I can cut and paste this:

 

The Mountain Echo student newspaper reported last month that Rehm had criticized Newman's plan to identify, through a freshman survey, those who might not succeed and help them withdraw and obtain tuition refunds.

Faculty member Greg Murry told the Echo that Newman had likened freshman to "bunnies" who had to be drowned, or have a gun put to their heads.

[regentrude]

The language with the bunnies is clearly inappropriate.

 

But identifying students who have clearly no chance of success because they are not prepared for college and having them withdraw with tuition refunds before they sink thousands of dollars and several years into an unattainable goal makes sense... although one wonders why they admit these students in the first place. It would make more sense not to accept students who are underprepared.

Edited February 10, 2016 by regentrude

[chiguirre]

This article and its comments explain in more detail. Some of the comments are the usual lame internet stuff, but some explain the change in admission standards and faculty politics in more detail.

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/02/08/provost-who-opposed-mount-st-marys-presidents-plan-cull-students-loses-his-job

[Reefgazer]

I agree with this, even though the language was a bit rough.  Not being upfront with students who are incapable of college level work and/or unmotivated to do the work, and giving them hope that they will succeed, is cruel, costly, and denies them the opportunity to pursue some field more suitable to them.

The language with the bunnies is clearly inappropriate.

 

But identifying students who have clearly no chance of success because they are not prepared for college and having them withdraw with tuition refunds before they sink thousands of dollars and several years into an unattainable goal makes sense... although one wonders why they admit these students in the first place. It would make more sense not to accept students who are underprepared.

 

[JanetC]

Two thoughts:

 

1. If you can tell via a survey during the third week of classes that someone is not cut out for college, put the survey in the college application and just don't admit them. (In other words, I'm skeptical of the underlying premise.)

 

2. Beware sending your kid to a college that has brought in an "outsider" to "run the place more like a business." (My sample size = 3, but none have been good.)

[Grantmom]

Yikes, that's pretty bad.  Don't admit them in the first place if you aren't going to commit to doing everything you can to help them succeed.

[regentrude]

 Don't admit them in the first place if you aren't going to commit to doing everything you can to help them succeed.

 

Colleges already spend a huge amount of resources on remediation. I do not think it is sensible to expect a college to "do everything you can" to help an underprepared student succeed. There are limits. The best help for some students may be to be frank and tell them that they are not equipped for success. Expecting colleges to do remediation at junior high level is unrealistic and expensive.

 

[JanetC]

Colleges already spend a huge amount of resources on remediation. I do not think it is sensible to expect a college to "do everything you can" to help an underprepared student succeed. There are limits. The best help for some students may be to be frank and tell them that they are not equipped for success. Expecting colleges to do remediation at junior high level is unrealistic and expensive.

 

Which gets back to the "don't admit them in the first place." The SAT and ACT are not perfect, but they can certainly tell a college if someone's reading and math skills are at the junior high level!

[creekland]

This article and its comments explain in more detail. Some of the comments are the usual lame internet stuff, but some explain the change in admission standards and faculty politics in more detail.

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/02/08/provost-who-opposed-mount-st-marys-presidents-plan-cull-students-loses-his-job

 

Thanks for the link - just read it.  Where have folks found the actual survey?

 

I'm finishing lunch now, so won't get back to this until much later tonight (things to do after school), but am certainly curious.

 

Mt St Marys is pretty darn close to where I live and it's somewhat common for students I have to go there - very common for students from the local Catholic high school.

[chiguirre]

This story popped back up in my Yahoo news feed. It appears there's more to the plot...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/student-poll-said-show-support-university-president-123612689.html

[creekland]

This story popped back up in my Yahoo news feed. It appears there's more to the plot...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/student-poll-said-show-support-university-president-123612689.html

 

It's definitely a "different" story than normal.  I don't think I'd feel confident sending a student to a school where the faculty and president were at such odds.  I found it interesting that the faculty tended to support his ideas, but not him.  The students seem to support his ideas and him.  I wonder how much "behind the scenes" the faculty sees and if that makes their thoughts differ or if they mainly support those who resigned?

 

There are still several questions my mind comes up with.

 

In general though, I'm glad they are reviewing whether they should take the tuition of those not likely to succeed, but not offering admission in the first place if they can figure it out sooner seems better.