What can go wrong? Update in #149

[idnib]

38carrots, I'm just sending hugs and good vibes because I know this is all very difficult for you. I'm really hoping this will turn out okay. I'm sure none of us who have given warnings and advice want to actually be right about this situation.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[TranquilMind]

Update.

 

Okay, they (doh!) already moved in their belongings. The woman called DH at work (from work) and DH reports that she sounds calm, normal, professional, etc, and said that they will give postdated checks on the 15th (yes, legal here) and we can cash them on the 19th. Yes, they live pay check to pay check, and with the move are in a tight spot. Which we can completely relate and understand.

 

So at this point we are waiting for the 19th. I appreciate everyone's support. Nothing to be done at this point. I just need to breathe, no point freaking out now. What's done is done.

 

ETA: what has always worried me about this is that we wrote "price negotiable for long term tenants" and our price was listed as high-ish for the area. We were expecting to go down $100-200. They never asked for any rent reduction. This is the worst red flag to me. That they don't intend to pay.

 

Okay, I won't allow to overthink this anymore. ha-ha

This is what I expected.  You might have some professional scammers on your hands.  I'd be driving by daily, just to see if the people you rented to are the only ones there, or in residence at all, and to make sure some unauthorized pit bulls aren't in residence (or any pets if the residence was a no-pets residence).  If you find out the situation is other than presented, file for eviction immediately.  It won't get better. 

 

The rent and security deposit must be in your hands in cold, hard cash before you let them in.  If you see a dime and the checks actually come and are cashable, it will be a miracle and you dodged a bullet.  I'd bet a series of excuses are coming your way for why they cannot pay, all "plausible" of course.  I hope I am wrong.

 

Don't ever let your husband do this again. Never EVER accept less than cash, or a postdated check ever for any reason.   If you get out of this ok, that will be fantastic.  And don't ever write "price negotiable"!  You decide your price, make sure it is right, and stick to it.  Does the grocery store let you pay according to your whims?  Or the mortgage company?  No. 

 

Did you at least run credit and criminal history checks on them?

Edited February 10, 2016 by TranquilMind

[TranquilMind]

Which already shows that they are dishonest, because they weren't supposed to be there until the 15th, and they are there almost a week early. 

 

Also, they were supposed to give you money on the 16th but now it's the 19th? 

 

No, just no.  You need cash or a money order, today.  Or start eviction proceedings, today. They aren't supposed to be there yet.  Is this sinking in yet?

 

The fact that she sounds "calm, normal, professional" would worry me even more.  That means they are good at this! 

 

You have people that are: 1. well practiced at hosing their landlords 2.in early possession of your property 3.without having paid a dime.

 

Hello!  Do you see it yet?

She is right.  I'm sorry, but she is totally right.  (Landlord of 15 years here)

Edited February 10, 2016 by TranquilMind

[eternalsummer]

An apartment is a hugely different thing than a house (this is a house, right?) and to them a house could be well worth the $500 extra.  $100 is really not a huge amount extra if you're looking at $1000 or so and I'd certainly be willing to pay it for location, a fenced backyard, a certain indoors feature (fireplace or cabinets I liked a lot or non-carpet flooring, to name a few) so they may see a reason to pay $100 more for your place too.

[Tree Frog]

Sorry?  Why not?  If you moved out early you could call your bank and have the cheques cancelled.  Plus, post dated cheques means post dated - they can't be cashed before the date on the cheque.  If I write out a cheque for July 1, 2016, the person I give it to can't decide to go cash it in April - the bank wouldn't do it.  And if they did cash it, it would be the bank's mistake and I'd have recourse that way.

 

I don't understand what the problem is???

 

In the US, I did have a post dated check cashed. Didn't cause any problems, but I'm not sure banks here even check the dates on them. Canada has a different banking system. I don't know precisely how it's different, but banks (and ATM's) were more secure. Also, to cancel the checks costs between $20 and $25 per check. That could be a lot of extra money to pay!

[eternalsummer]

Instead of price negotiable I'd definitely do something like $1200 for 6-month lease, $1100 for 12-month lease, $1000 for 24-month lease, or whatever.  People don't really want to negotiate (I would never want to negotiate with a landlord) and also don't want to feel like you know you're overcharging, so price negotiable sends kind of a weird signal.

 

But that is beside the point for this thread anyway.

[Carol in Cal.]

OK, look.  Done is done.

What to do now is, don't treat them with the suspicion you feel, but don't allow anymore stalling either.

The lease must be signed, rent must be paid, deposit also.

 

In the meantime, please order the landlord book from Nolo Press if there is one that covers your state, or another book that has local laws covered for your state, and start to learn what to do next time.  Also as a precaution, learn about evictions.

 

We hope you won't need that last bit of knowledge, but it's just good sense to become familiar with the procedure as it has several steps and the longer someone who is not paying rent is in your home, the more money you lose, so being able to act quickly is important.

 

Also, just FYI, we always rent a bit BELOW market so that we can attract the best tenants.  We require a large security deposit, and we usually end up giving back the whole thing.  We always have an application with a fee, and do a credit check, and check two landlords back.  If references seem circular, we don't rent to that tenant.  For instance, once we had an applicant where the husband worked for his BIL, under the table.  Wife did not WOTH.  Their previous rental had burned down and all their stuff smelled like smoke.  No rental history before that.  BIL offered to show us his bank accounts which supposedly had millions in them.  But he did not offer to cosign.  We checked credit, and couldn't verify anything about the applicant, I think he was newish to the country.  We turned them down (and the house was vacant for two more months, a tough decision for sure).  We told them that we were unable to verify their information and that we would not rent to them in that circumstance.  (Our requirement is to reach two prior landlords and verify employment.)  They were pretty pissed off, and I was sorry but relieved. 

[TranquilMind]

OK, look.  Done is done.

What to do now is, don't treat them with the suspicion you feel, but don't allow anymore stalling either.

The lease must be signed, rent must be paid, deposit also.

 

In the meantime, please order the landlord book from Nolo Press if there is one that covers your state, or another book that has local laws covered for your state, and start to learn what to do next time.  Also as a precaution, learn about evictions.

 

We hope you won't need that last bit of knowledge, but it's just good sense to become familiar with the procedure as it has several steps and the longer someone who is not paying rent is in your home, the more money you lose, so being able to act quickly is important.

 

Also, just FYI, we always rent a bit BELOW market so that we can attract the best tenants.  We require a large security deposit, and we usually end up giving back the whole thing.  We always have an application with a fee, and do a credit check, and check two landlords back.  If references seem circular, we don't rent to that tenant.  For instance, once we had an applicant where the husband worked for his BIL, under the table.  Wife did not WOTH.  Their previous rental had burned down and all their stuff smelled like smoke.  No rental history before that.  BIL offered to show us his bank accounts which supposedly had millions in them.  But he did not offer to cosign.  We checked credit, and couldn't verify anything about the applicant, I think he was newish to the country.  We turned them down (and the house was vacant for two more months, a tough decision for sure).  We told them that we were unable to verify their information and that we would not rent to them in that circumstance.  (Our requirement is to reach two prior landlords and verify employment.)  They were pretty pissed off, and I was sorry but relieved. 

Good advice here.  And I always rent slightly below market too, so I have my pick of top flight potential tenants with good credit and lots of options.   I want stable people with jobs and no pets. 

Every single thing must be verifiable and true and I verify it all.  If I find one piece of information that doesn't fit or that was a lie, that is an auto-reject. 

[Alessandra]

Op, I am trying to think of something that could make you feel a little better. If your new tenants are skilled grifters, they could fool even a sensible person. I remember a few years ago, a well-dressed, fashionable couple talked themselves into a White House party. They got past multiple layers of highly trained Secret Service agents.

 

Hoping that somehow you will come out of this relatively unscathed.

[justasque]

No, it is not on the lease. They signed the lease for the price we advertised. While they could have easily rented an apartment, of slightly poorer quality for $500 less, or an equivalent for $100 less.

 

Well, not easily.  They would have to come up with first and last and security deposit before moving in, which is quite a bit more than they've given you.  But hopefully our fears will have been misplaced and all will be well.

 

No worries, we fix things ASAP, has always done so. All of a sudden because I said I couldn't afford to change the locks some seem to assume that we are horrible land lords who don't fix things for the tenants. Okay, whatever.

 

OP, I am sorry if you're feeling a bit beat up by this thread.  Remember, we don't know all the details of your experience as a landlord.  I think many posters thought this was your first experience renting your property, and took your comment about not having the money to change the locks literally.  The posters here have your best interests at heart.  Please don't get discouraged,  You and your dh have learned a lot from this experience, and I'm sure many future hs mom landlords are reading along and learning too.

 

38carrots, I'm just sending hugs and good vibes because I know this is all very difficult for you. I'm really hoping this will turn out okay. I'm sure none of us who have given warnings and advice want to actually be right about this situation.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

This.

[Tsuga]

Good advice here. And I always rent slightly below market too, so I have my pick of top flight potential tenants with good credit and lots of options. I want stable people with jobs and no pets.

Every single thing must be verifiable and true and I verify it all. If I find one piece of information that doesn't fit or that was a lie, that is an auto-reject.

This is so interesting--our landlords (the ones who do the bg checks etc.) have always done the same.

 

OP, good luck.

 

I think the situation is salvageable provided you go on with a very strict and clear timeline as Carol in CA has suggested, and stick to it. switching from your DH dealing with them to you could save some explanation and also make it clear to them that you are going to change the situation.

[Tess in the Burbs]

ok this whole thing is a mess.  I thought they were paying you on the 16th?  Now they 19th?  

 

If it were me:  I would call and make it very clear that rent is due, deposits are due on the 16th, the day of the lease.  If she again says the 19th I would be very clear that if those checks bounce, you will start eviction process immediately.  I would mention that moving in early has a prorate amount, but you will waive that if the money is all in place by the 16th.  

 

 

I have rented a long time and never had to give a post dated check.  EVER.  

 

I was given keys after signing a lease a few years ago, but the lease wasn't in effect until the weekend.  We did not move in early.  My renters insurance didn't cover my belongings there.  I sure as heck wasn't going to risk it.  Do you require renters insurance?  You should.  

 

I think you knew this was a mess when your DH came home.  I can't believe he's not more upset about his own mistake and as a lawyer not doing more about it.  I really don't have good vibes this is going work out for you at.all.  

 

 

[Bluegoat]

What I'm saying is, there's nothing abnormal about either a LL asking for payment this way, or the tenant wishing to do it this way. The guy we have who does this is an older guy and has been doing it this way for a long time.

 

I personally like DD best of all. People who know their financial situation is tumultuous are, rightly, reluctant to set up a direct debit. Some don't even have a checking account, or a valid credit card; I have had that circumstance before, too. The defunct payers I have experienced have never (so far) been those with DD or who routinely send a stack of PD checks.

 

Of course mistakes can happen, but that is why it is important to do your job competantly. If you own and manage several rentals, as I do, you have to record and think intelligently about each one. I would have to be having some kind of seriously off day to accidentally deposit six checks, or even two, from the same tenant whoch was meant to be distributed over several months. I'm not saying I am mistake-free - certainly not - but that is one of the things I get paid for: doing the job competantly.

 

I'm honestly not getting what the issue is supposed to be at all.  If someone gives you a check for Oct 10th on the date, or a month ahead, how is that supposed to show them as unreliable?  They still need to have the money on the day, it doesn't get them out of paying rent.

[Bluegoat]

ok this whole thing is a mess.  I thought they were paying you on the 16th?  Now they 19th?  

 

If it were me:  I would call and make it very clear that rent is due, deposits are due on the 16th, the day of the lease.  If she again says the 19th I would be very clear that if those checks bounce, you will start eviction process immediately.  I would mention that moving in early has a prorate amount, but you will waive that if the money is all in place by the 16th.  

 

 

I have rented a long time and never had to give a post dated check.  EVER.  

 

I was given keys after signing a lease a few years ago, but the lease wasn't in effect until the weekend.  We did not move in early.  My renters insurance didn't cover my belongings there.  I sure as heck wasn't going to risk it.  Do you require renters insurance?  You should.  

 

I think you knew this was a mess when your DH came home.  I can't believe he's not more upset about his own mistake and as a lawyer not doing more about it.  I really don't have good vibes this is going work out for you at.all.  

 

Does it really matter what the day is if everyone agrees?  If the 16th is just before they get paid, it would make sense to do it on the 19th.  As long as it is regular and not a PITA for the OP, why not?

[Guest]

I'm honestly not getting what the issue is supposed to be at all. If someone gives you a check for Oct 10th on the date, or a month ahead, how is that supposed to show them as unreliable? They still need to have the money on the day, it doesn't get them out of paying rent.

That's what I am saying: post-dated checks are not abnormal or sketchy in my eyes in and of themselves. It would only be a problem if the checks start bouncing when I deposit them on or after the post date. (Though in this particular case the one abnormality is that there were post dated checks, but no actual money ready for use immediately, which is why there is a oroblem.) but several posters were saying they had never used PD checks to pay rent or feel it could be risky, which is what I was respinding to.

[Carol in Cal.]

Does it really matter what the day is if everyone agrees?  If the 16th is just before they get paid, it would make sense to do it on the 19th.  As long as it is regular and not a PITA for the OP, why not?

Have you ever heard the saying, "Straws tell which way the wind is blowing?"

We are afraid that these constant stalls about actually paying are going to continue and intensify.  We hope they don't, but so far there have been several--no initial payment on schedule, offering post dated checks (which is really not done in this country and is indicative of not having the money to pay the rent), and now stalling even the first month's rent, again.

 

You know, these people don't have to be evil to be broke, but either way the OP turns over a huge asset to their care without be sure of getting paid for this.  That's what we are worried about.  And to be a small landlord with only one house, and worried every single month whether THIS will be the month where the payment is not only late but not forthcoming is extremely stressful.  BTDT.  (In our case our tenant's primary breadwinner suddenly lost his job when his company folded with no warning, which could not be foreseen and probably couldn't have been prevented.)  (But at least we had a working relationship with them by then, and we knew they would take care of the house and pay us when they could.)

[Mergath]

No worries, we fix things ASAP, has always done so. All of a sudden because I said I couldn't afford to change the locks some seem to assume that we are horrible land lords who don't fix things for the tenants. Okay, whatever.

 

You're saying you don't have any money at the moment to put into the rental, and you don't seem to know anything about the laws in your state. People have mentioned the red flags they look for in a tenant. Well, as a renter, those are red flags for me when it comes to LLs. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but as a landlord, it really is your job, at minimum, to know your state's laws regarding renting.

[idnib]

Post-dated checks are not sketchy in general, but in this case the tenants had been asked to arrive at the signing with the actual money and they only arrived with post-dated checks. They then proceeded to say they could be cashed on the 16th, but have changed it to the 19th.

[zoobie]

I'm honestly not getting what the issue is supposed to be at all. If someone gives you a check for Oct 10th on the date, or a month ahead, how is that supposed to show them as unreliable? They still need to have the money on the day, it doesn't get them out of paying rent.

They were supposed to come with current checks/cash deposit and first month's rent. Instead they brought post-dated checks and have moved the goal posts again from the 16th to the 19th. They have already taken possession with zero money down.

[TranquilMind]

This is so interesting--our landlords (the ones who do the bg checks etc.) have always done the same.

 

OP, good luck.

 

I think the situation is salvageable provided you go on with a very strict and clear timeline as Carol in CA has suggested, and stick to it. switching from your DH dealing with them to you could save some explanation and also make it clear to them that you are going to change the situation.

Yes!  Excellent time for the good cop/bad cop routine!

[Tammi K]

A story to the most extreme, but let me tell you why you don't play games with renters who push the limit....

 

My husband works for DoD.   We've always rented our personal house when he is assigned overseas.  Our most current house is  was in  Pennsylvania.  We had a property manager.  The last time the house stood empty, about 18 months ago, the property manager strongly encouraged us to rent to a single father of 6 recently divorced who 'feel on hard times' because of his expenses. However, she pushed and assured that nothing in his past led her to believe that he wouldn't be a good tenant once he got past this current situation.

 

I was NEVER on board with this guy. There were way too many red flags for me. But, dh wanted to give the guy a chance.  Within 6 months, the rent was late. He was sorry. It wouldn't happen again.  Within another month or two, it was late again. He was really sorry. It wouldn't happen again.  By Christmas, we needed to understand that he had 6 kinds and it was Christmas and...  

 

In the township where the home is located, LL are required to have the house inspected once a year.  The inspector found all the florescent bulbs in the basement shattered and much of the exposed duct-work untaped and damaged. There were holes in the main floor walls. We were told we needed to understand that the oldest was going through a rebellious period. 

 

By that point I wanted to begin eviction proceedings. DH was back on the east coast for a business trip in June.  He plan was to inspect the house and discuss eviction with the property manager.  He came home with a report that the property manager was a nice lady, she would try harder to do her job, the tenant was trying, he had a 'catch up' plan in the works. Dh felt sorry for their situation.  

 

Through out all of this, I wanted to evict ( and was seriously considering whacking dh one the head with a load of horse-sense).  In November, we received a call from our insurance agent, who was currently on-site watching our house burn to the ground.  It appears that the oldest with the ' rebellious streak' locked his three pets in the basement, disconnected the gas line from the stove, poured accelerate around the main floor and lit it on fire.  His pets perished. My house burnt to the ground.

 

The pets - he said he never liked them anyway.  He was home on a  school day because he had been expelled for punching his sister in the face - on the school bus.  Dad, who could never pay the rent on time, according to the D.A., hired the most expensive lawyer  in the county to defend his son. 

 

In a few weeks I fly, at my own expense, back to the east coast to provide a victim statement at his sentencing. He plead guilty to a second degree felony - Causing a Catastrophe.  We hear he will most likely get probation. 

 

Our house is gone. Our rental income is gone. Much of what was stored in a secured room in the basement is gone. What remains was moved to a storage facility, at our expense,  after my husband flew back to sort through it, also at our expense. 

 

Insurance is doing their part but it is not without frustration and heartache.  It is a long, slow process. 

 

Seriously, OP, you know from moment one that these people are not playing by the rules.  You are only kidding yourself if you think that it will all work out.  I hope for your sake it does, but let me tell you, you have no idea the world of heartache and frustration you could be in for if it doesn't!

[Laura Corin]

Somehow I think it's easier that we don't really use cheques in AU anymore!

 

Nor in the UK.

[Alessandra]

A story to the most extreme, but let me tell you why you don't play games with renters who push the limit....

 

My husband works for DoD.   We've always rented our personal house when he is assigned overseas.  Our most current house is  was in  Pennsylvania.  We had a property manager.  The last time the house stood empty, about 18 months ago, the property manager strongly encouraged us to rent to a single father of 6 recently divorced who 'feel on hard times' because of his expenses. However, she pushed and assured that nothing in his past led her to believe that he wouldn't be a good tenant once he got past this current situation.

 

I was NEVER on board with this guy. There were way too many red flags for me. But, dh wanted to give the guy a chance.  Within 6 months, the rent was late. He was sorry. It wouldn't happen again.  Within another month or two, it was late again. He was really sorry. It wouldn't happen again.  By Christmas, we needed to understand that he had 6 kinds and it was Christmas and...  

 

In the township where the home is located, LL are required to have the house inspected once a year.  The inspector found all the florescent bulbs in the basement shattered and much of the exposed duct-work untaped and damaged. There were holes in the main floor walls. We were told we needed to understand that the oldest was going through a rebellious period. 

 

By that point I wanted to begin eviction proceedings. DH was back on the east coast for a business trip in June.  He plan was to inspect the house and discuss eviction with the property manager.  He came home with a report that the property manager was a nice lady, she would try harder to do her job, the tenant was trying, he had a 'catch up' plan in the works. Dh felt sorry for their situation.  

 

Through out all of this, I wanted to evict ( and was seriously considering whacking dh one the head with a load of horse-sense).  In November, we received a call from our insurance agent, who was currently on-site watching our house burn to the ground.  It appears that the oldest with the ' rebellious streak' locked his three pets in the basement, disconnected the gas line from the stove, poured accelerate around the main floor and lit it on fire.  His pets perished. My house burnt to the ground.

 

The pets - he said he never liked them anyway.  He was home on a  school day because he had been expelled for punching his sister in the face - on the school bus.  Dad, who could never pay the rent on time, according to the D.A., hired the most expensive lawyer  in the county to defend his son. 

 

In a few weeks I fly, at my own expense, back to the east coast to provide a victim statement at his sentencing. He plead guilty to a second degree felony - Causing a Catastrophe.  We hear he will most likely get probation. 

 

Our house is gone. Our rental income is gone. Much of what was stored in a secured room in the basement is gone. What remains was moved to a storage facility, at our expense,  after my husband flew back to sort through it, also at our expense. 

 

Insurance is doing their part but it is not without frustration and heartache.  It is a long, slow process. 

 

Seriously, OP, you know from moment one that these people are not playing by the rules.  You are only kidding yourself if you think that it will all work out.  I hope for your sake it does, but let me tell you, you have no idea the world of heartache and frustration you could be in for if it doesn't!

 

OMG. what a horrible story! I am so sorry for your loss, well, losses.

[marbel]

A story to the most extreme, but let me tell you why you don't play games with renters who push the limit....

 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[idnib]

A story to the most extreme, but let me tell you why you don't play games with renters who push the limit....

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[PrairieSong]

In November, we received a call from our insurance agent, who was currently on-site watching our house burn to the ground. It appears that the oldest with the ' rebellious streak' locked his three pets in the basement, disconnected the gas line from the stove, poured accelerate around the main floor and lit it on fire. His pets perished. My house burnt to the ground.

How horrifying and heartbreaking. I am so very sorry for your loss.

[TranquilMind]

A story to the most extreme, but let me tell you why you don't play games with renters who push the limit....

 

My husband works for DoD.   We've always rented our personal house when he is assigned overseas.  Our most current house is  was in  Pennsylvania.  We had a property manager.  The last time the house stood empty, about 18 months ago, the property manager strongly encouraged us to rent to a single father of 6 recently divorced who 'feel on hard times' because of his expenses. However, she pushed and assured that nothing in his past led her to believe that he wouldn't be a good tenant once he got past this current situation.

 

I was NEVER on board with this guy. There were way too many red flags for me. But, dh wanted to give the guy a chance.  Within 6 months, the rent was late. He was sorry. It wouldn't happen again.  Within another month or two, it was late again. He was really sorry. It wouldn't happen again.  By Christmas, we needed to understand that he had 6 kinds and it was Christmas and...  

 

In the township where the home is located, LL are required to have the house inspected once a year.  The inspector found all the florescent bulbs in the basement shattered and much of the exposed duct-work untaped and damaged. There were holes in the main floor walls. We were told we needed to understand that the oldest was going through a rebellious period. 

 

By that point I wanted to begin eviction proceedings. DH was back on the east coast for a business trip in June.  He plan was to inspect the house and discuss eviction with the property manager.  He came home with a report that the property manager was a nice lady, she would try harder to do her job, the tenant was trying, he had a 'catch up' plan in the works. Dh felt sorry for their situation.  

 

Through out all of this, I wanted to evict ( and was seriously considering whacking dh one the head with a load of horse-sense).  In November, we received a call from our insurance agent, who was currently on-site watching our house burn to the ground.  It appears that the oldest with the ' rebellious streak' locked his three pets in the basement, disconnected the gas line from the stove, poured accelerate around the main floor and lit it on fire.  His pets perished. My house burnt to the ground.

 

The pets - he said he never liked them anyway.  He was home on a  school day because he had been expelled for punching his sister in the face - on the school bus.  Dad, who could never pay the rent on time, according to the D.A., hired the most expensive lawyer  in the county to defend his son. 

 

In a few weeks I fly, at my own expense, back to the east coast to provide a victim statement at his sentencing. He plead guilty to a second degree felony - Causing a Catastrophe.  We hear he will most likely get probation. 

 

Our house is gone. Our rental income is gone. Much of what was stored in a secured room in the basement is gone. What remains was moved to a storage facility, at our expense,  after my husband flew back to sort through it, also at our expense. 

 

Insurance is doing their part but it is not without frustration and heartache.  It is a long, slow process. 

 

Seriously, OP, you know from moment one that these people are not playing by the rules.  You are only kidding yourself if you think that it will all work out.  I hope for your sake it does, but let me tell you, you have no idea the world of heartache and frustration you could be in for if it doesn't!

Wow.  What a nightmare.  I've heard bad things from my landlord group about why you must maintain very high standards and never deviate, but not with this terrible of an outcome! 

Wise words to consider.  Always trust your gut. 

[TranquilMind]

It's a terrible story. 

 

To be fair to renters, most of us do not burn our rental accomodation to the ground. Nor do we trash it. Most of us just want to live our normal lives in secure and adequate accomodation.

True, but you demonstrate that by abiding by the terms of your Lease and not failing to pay when agreed.   This new tenant failed basic tenant responsibility number 1:  Bring the full amount of security deposit and first month's rent at Lease signing. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by TranquilMind

[KathyBC]

I don't know where the OP lives, but when we lived in Canada, we had to provide our landlord with a year of post dated checks. It felt very strange to write them all out and trust the landlord not to cash them before they were due!

I don't understand these posts. Post-dated cheques mean just that... post-dated. Your landlord cannot deposit a cheque dated April 1 in February.

 

ETA: Okay, got caught up reading this thread. Who knew the American banking system... was so different?

Edited February 10, 2016 by KathyBC

[Kathryn]

I don't understand these posts. Post-dated cheques mean just that... post-dated. Your landlord cannot deposit a cheque dated April 1 in February.

In America, they can. The date is essentially meaningless. It's for your reference basically. At least that's how our bank explained it to us.

[TechWife]

I don't understand these posts. Post-dated cheques mean just that... post-dated. Your landlord cannot deposit a cheque dated April 1 in February.

 

They can in the US. 

[ErinE]

It's a terrible story. 

 

To be fair to renters, most of us do not burn our rental accomodation to the ground. Nor do we trash it. Most of us just want to live our normal lives in secure and adequate accomodation.

 

I agree with you absolutely, but I think the point of the story is that it only takes one bad renter to destroy someone's property. When I've thought about rental property (at some point in the future when we might have the means), I'm always worried about the one bad experience, not the years of good ones we might have.

 

Most people I know IRL who are landlords take the precautions listed by prior posters to guard against the loss of their property.

[Pen]

I thought that postdated checks had already been given when the keys were turned over. If they were, what date was on them and what were they supposed to cover (1st, last, security, or ?) ?  

 

What are the checks being given on the 16th supposed to cover? When is second month rent supposed to be paid?

[Guest]

Tammi K, that is a horrible story. Clearly the worst I have ever heard. The child is obviously mentally ill.

 

By comparison, we had a fire in a property we manage; it was accidental, but IMO still pointed to the tenant's general lack of sense. In the end, it was kind of good for us because we got rid of a problem tenant that we were already about to evict, and were able to get new carpet, which was already necessary because of the problem tenants. Insurance covered the damages.

 

Or course, there was lost income from June until December, so that was not favorable. But those tenants...I am glad to have them go away.

[creekland]

Our house is gone. Our rental income is gone. Much of what was stored in a secured room in the basement is gone. What remains was moved to a storage facility, at our expense,  after my husband flew back to sort through it, also at our expense. 

 

Insurance is doing their part but it is not without frustration and heartache.  It is a long, slow process. 

 

Seriously, OP, you know from moment one that these people are not playing by the rules.  You are only kidding yourself if you think that it will all work out.  I hope for your sake it does, but let me tell you, you have no idea the world of heartache and frustration you could be in for if it doesn't!

 

:grouphug:  Sorry Tammi!  But I'm glad you shared as it shows people what truly can happen if they're not careful.  It's why I share about our rental house getting trashed too, but our horror story in no way compares to yours.

 

It's a terrible story. 

 

To be fair to renters, most of us do not burn our rental accomodation to the ground. Nor do we trash it. Most of us just want to live our normal lives in secure and adequate accomodation.

 

Most do not.  Owning rental properties still works out well for many of us and is something I encourage for the right people in decent areas.  But it sure helps us owners when we share tips on how to find the right/wrong tenants.  We're the ones more or less gambling with high amounts of money hoping to gain from our gamble.  For us, that gamble is our retirement fund.  It's what we chose over gambling on stocks or similar investments.  So far, we're doing better, but it's still a gamble.

 

All of us were new and/or naive at one point.  We learn not only though our own mistakes/experiences, but also the shared mistakes/experiences of others.

[Tsuga]

It's a terrible story.

 

To be fair to renters, most of us do not burn our rental accomodation to the ground. Nor do we trash it. Most of us just want to live our normal lives in secure and adequate accomodation.

Of course, but most of us play by the rules from the beginning and don't write post-dated checks when cash is required and move in early, kwim?

 

It's the red flags, all put together, that are concerning.

 

That said I hope that for OP this will be a simple case of pay-laters and all will be well.

[Tsuga]

I don't understand these posts. Post-dated cheques mean just that... post-dated. Your landlord cannot deposit a cheque dated April 1 in February.

 

ETA: Okay, got caught up reading this thread. Who knew the American banking system... was so different?

I didn't know that either, and I live in the US.

 

I just never dealt with it extensively.

[Pen]

A story to the most extreme, but let me tell you why you don't play games with renters who push the limit....

 

...

Through out all of this, I wanted to evict ( and was seriously considering whacking dh one the head with a load of horse-sense).  In November, we received a call from our insurance agent, who was currently on-site watching our house burn to the ground.  It appears that the oldest with the ' rebellious streak' locked his three pets in the basement, disconnected the gas line from the stove, poured accelerate around the main floor and lit it on fire.  His pets perished. My house burnt to the ground.

 

...

 

 

Hugs to you.

 

Wow. Horrible. Scary stuff.   

 

How did your insurance agent happen to be there?  And how old was this kid?  Sounds like arson plus cruelty to animals if that exists as a crime where you are and generally some first degree felony type things going on. Not to mention psychopathology. So this kid is out and about now?

[Sarah CB]

I don't understand these posts. Post-dated cheques mean just that... post-dated. Your landlord cannot deposit a cheque dated April 1 in February.

 

ETA: Okay, got caught up reading this thread. Who knew the American banking system... was so different?

 

I know.  Weird that using post dated cheques in Canada makes me feel responsible.  I love handing over a stack of cheques to the music school and knowing that I don't have to worry about it for the rest of the year - all my payments will be on time.  

 

Then to find out that using postdated cheques in the US makes you look like you have no money in your account and you're asking someone a favour to not cash your cheque until you get paid. 

 

Whole different dynamic.  

 

I actually feel self-conscious about using my credit card sometimes - like the clerk at the grocery store is going to think I can't afford to buy my own groceries.  I've had to get over that feeling because I really want the points I get for using my cc.  I pay the darn thing off every month, but I still feel bad about using it.  I now have that same feeling towards the US and post dated cheques - I'm very sorry that someone could think that my use of post dated cheques meant that I couldn't actually make a payment when I should have.  Ick.

[TammyS]

You're saying you don't have any money at the moment to put into the rental, and you don't seem to know anything about the laws in your state. People have mentioned the red flags they look for in a tenant. Well, as a renter, those are red flags for me when it comes to LLs. I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings, but as a landlord, it really is your job, at minimum, to know your state's laws regarding renting.

 

Yes!  Just as a landlord interviews and checks out a tenant, so should a tenant check out a landlord.  When I was helping my mother find a new place last year, you wouldn't believe how many places we passed over because the LLs clearly didn't know what they were doing.  For my mother, the whole point of renting is that upkeep the the property is not her responsibility.  When you have landlords who tell you to your face that "they aren't putting any more in this house", that's a sign to move onto someone else.

[TammyS]

Somehow I think it's easier that we don't really use cheques in AU anymore!

 

At all?  Wow.

 

The place my mother rents requires all of the tenants to pay by money order.  I know it's a hassle for the tenants to go get the money order, but I understand the management's position of not wanting to run people down for bad checks.

[Tap]

In some states, the fact that you are letting them pay the first month late, sets that as a precedence and is then the allowed payment schedule.  Then you will not be able to evict for that reason in the future. You really need to find out the laws in your state regarding this, because you need to establish consistency from the beginning. 

 

You are also letting them live there for free right now, so if they are injured on your property, you are liable.   Make sure you have insurance to cover the fact that you have renters in your home.  Many mortgage policies and home owner policies exclude renters. 

 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Tap

[Bluegoat]

Have you ever heard the saying, "Straws tell which way the wind is blowing?"

We are afraid that these constant stalls about actually paying are going to continue and intensify.  We hope they don't, but so far there have been several--no initial payment on schedule, offering post dated checks (which is really not done in this country and is indicative of not having the money to pay the rent), and now stalling even the first month's rent, again.

 

You know, these people don't have to be evil to be broke, but either way the OP turns over a huge asset to their care without be sure of getting paid for this.  That's what we are worried about.  And to be a small landlord with only one house, and worried every single month whether THIS will be the month where the payment is not only late but not forthcoming is extremely stressful.  BTDT.  (In our case our tenant's primary breadwinner suddenly lost his job when his company folded with no warning, which could not be foreseen and probably couldn't have been prevented.)  (But at least we had a working relationship with them by then, and we knew they would take care of the house and pay us when they could.)

 

I can see that it might suggest that they will be dodgy about money, even if they are quite nice otherwise.  Or they could just be dodgy all round.  I have no argument with that, and as a ll it is something to worry about.

 

I do not, however, get, or like, the way some people are saying these are surely things only someone out to cheat them would do. Mainly because it is BS.  They are things someone who is short of money at the moment would do, and the dates issue may be part of that or may be just about their pay schedule.  They may be short because moving is expensive, or it may be ongoing.

 

I really dislike the implication that being low-income is synonemous with being dodgy, and I think this sort of thing is in many cases where that myth comes from - people who are having to constantly scramble to make ends meet are interpreted as being garbage people.  Protecting your own investment isn't an excuse for making that kind of judgement about people's morality without a lick of evidence. 

[EmseB]

It's not being low income. It's that they showed up to sign a lease with no money. That is just not done in the US. It's dodgy to try to move into a place without paying at least a deposit.

[Bluegoat]

They were supposed to come with current checks/cash deposit and first month's rent. Instead they brought post-dated checks and have moved the goal posts again from the 16th to the 19th. They have already taken possession with zero money down.

 

Yes, they seem short, which could be from moving or more of an all the time thing.  Time will tell.

 

But that is not what several people in the thread are saying.  They are saying anyone using post-dated checks is a scammer.

[EmseB]

In a lot of places in the U.S., tenants have landlords over a barrel once they move in. It would be the same as if I tried to buy a car from you and showed up to the sale without the money to buy it and you let me drive off in the car with the title with my promise that I would pay you for it later. Sure, you could track me down if I didn't pay and maybe get your money, but it's difficult and time consuming, and I can wreck the car in the meantime. Even if I'm simply low income and do pay you later, the car seller is foolish to put themselves in that position.

[Bluegoat]

It's not being low income. It's that they showed up to sign a lease with no money. That is just not done in the US. It's dodgy to try to move into a place without paying at least a deposit.

 

No, I think it is about being low income.  People who are low income just don't have savings or extra cash on hand in many cases.  There is no way they can get their hands on it.  So - what do you do when you move?  Borrow maybe if you can, or go without something (what?) or often just grit your teeth and hope you can fudge it- there won't be another choice open.

 

That doesn't make you dodgy, it makes you poor.  Poor people aren't much use as money-makers so I can see why lls don't want to rent to them, but making moral judgements about their poverty is pretty nasty, and privileged.

[Tsuga]

Yes, they seem short, which could be from moving or more of an all the time thing.  Time will tell.

 

But that is not what several people in the thread are saying.  They are saying anyone using post-dated checks is a scammer.

 

No, that's not true. I think what people have said is that using a post-dated check for a deposit is so unusual and so common among scammers, that it is a big red flag that would keep most of us from letting them move in without a cash deposit.

 

That is not even to say not to let them move in, just to get the cash ASAP to put your mind at rest.

[EmseB]

Yes, they seem short, which could be from moving or more of an all the time thing. Time will tell.

 

But that is not what several people in the thread are saying. They are saying anyone using post-dated checks is a scammer.

The post dated checks thing is a difference in culture/banking.

 

OTOH, if anyone brought that to a lease signing in lieu of cash that they knew they were supposed to bring, I would consider them to be trying to do something not good. I wouldn't consider their income, just that in that particular situation I would consider them not on the up and up.

[zoobie]

No, I think it is about being low income. People who are low income just don't have savings or extra cash on hand in many cases. There is no way they can get their hands on it. So - what do you do when you move? Borrow maybe if you can, or go without something (what?) or often just grit your teeth and hope you can fudge it- there won't be another choice open.

 

That doesn't make you dodgy, it makes you poor. Poor people aren't much use as money-makers so I can see why lls don't want to rent to them, but making moral judgements about their poverty is pretty nasty, and privileged.

It is a difficult position. The renters may need the deposit back from the last place to put it down on this one. I've been there. That doesn't make a landlord a morally inferior person to refuse to let random people live in their rental property for free. If these renters had been honest about it, that would give me a different impression. They said they were coming with cash and did not.