What can go wrong? Update in #149

[TammyS]

Update.

 

Okay, they (doh!) already moved in their belongings. The woman called DH at work (from work) and DH reports that she sounds calm, normal, professional, etc, and said that they will give postdated checks on the 15th (yes, legal here) and we can cash them on the 19th. Yes, they live pay check to pay check, and with the move are in a tight spot. Which we can completely relate and understand.

 

So at this point we are waiting for the 19th. I appreciate everyone's support. Nothing to be done at this point. I just need to breathe, no point freaking out now. What's done is done.

 

ETA: what has always worried me about this is that we wrote "price negotiable for long term tenants" and our price was listed as high-ish for the area. We were expecting to go down $100-200. They never asked for any rent reduction. This is the worst red flag to me. That they don't intend to pay.

 

Okay, I won't allow to overthink this anymore. ha-ha

 

Which already shows that they are dishonest, because they weren't supposed to be there until the 15th, and they are there almost a week early. 

 

Also, they were supposed to give you money on the 16th but now it's the 19th? 

 

No, just no.  You need cash or a money order, today.  Or start eviction proceedings, today. They aren't supposed to be there yet.  Is this sinking in yet?

 

The fact that she sounds "calm, normal, professional" would worry me even more.  That means they are good at this! 

 

You have people that are: 1. well practiced at hosing their landlords 2.in early possession of your property 3.without having paid a dime.

 

Hello!  Do you see it yet?

[creekland]

Is there anyone else musing that this thread and the Does Money Buy Happiness thread could go hand and hand?  Not necessarily happiness, but there'd be much less stress leading to the potential for more happiness if there were more money involved with both the tenants and the landlords...

 

:grouphug:

[38carrots]

We do - and no regrets either.  We've found many of our greatest tenants because we allow pets.  We charge a one time $100 fee (for extra cleaning), but nothing extra monthly.

 

There hasn't been a single time a pet has messed up one of our places for more than that $100 fee.

 

We allow pets, happily. We never had issues with pets. We had some really great tenants. One awful one.

 

Anyway. We won't sell because we do make good money on the rental (when things go well).

 

So fingers crossed and we'll see.

[TechWife]

Does the date on a check actually mean anything? I thought I heard that it was there for record keeping and a check could be cashed at any time?

 

At my bank, they will accept post dated checks for deposit. The only way that it won't be credited to your account is if 1) it bounces for insufficient funds or 2) there is a stop payment order for it. 

[creekland]

Which already shows that they are dishonest, because they weren't supposed to be there until the 15th, and they are there almost a week early. 

 

Also, they were supposed to give you money on the 16th but now it's the 19th? 

 

To be fair - re-reading the OP, the DH told them they could move in sooner, so that's not a dishonesty on their part.

 

The 19th is a Friday and a typical payday, so that one could make sense too.

 

However, like everyone else reading this thread... I'd keep a close watch at this point as it bodes like trouble.

 

I would not start eviction proceedings now.  I don't think there'd be anything to stand on legally with what happened by word of mouth (and they have the keys to support their side).  I think it's going to have to wait until they don't get payment as agreed.

[marbel]

Which already shows that they are dishonest, because they weren't supposed to be there until the 15th, and they are there almost a week early. 

 

Also, they were supposed to give you money on the 16th but now it's the 19th? 

 

No, just no.  You need cash or a money order, today.  Or start eviction proceedings, today. They aren't supposed to be there yet.  Is this sinking in yet?

 

The fact that she sounds "calm, normal, professional" would worry me even more.  That means they are good at this! 

 

You have people that are: 1. well practiced at hosing their landlords 2.in early possession of your property 3.without having paid a dime.

 

Hello!  Do you see it yet?

 

I've stayed out of this discussion because everyone else is saying what I'd say, only better.  This post included.

 

OP, you are working really hard to convince yourself that this will all be OK.  The fact that someone sounds calm, normal, professional is meaningless. 

 

I hope it's OK for you too but you are already in trouble.  Please stop kidding yourself and take the advice of seasoned landlords here.

[TammyS]

 We won't sell because we do make good money on the rental (when things go well).

 

 

 

You make good money on the rental, but you couldn't afford to change locks?  Does that make sense?

[Lady Florida.]

Sorry?  Why not?  If you moved out early you could call your bank and have the cheques cancelled.  Plus, post dated cheques means post dated - they can't be cashed before the date on the cheque.  If I write out a cheque for July 1, 2016, the person I give it to can't decide to go cash it in April - the bank wouldn't do it.  And if they did cash it, it would be the bank's mistake and I'd have recourse that way.

 

I don't understand what the problem is???

 

In the U.S. a bank can cash a check at any time unless you specifically notified them and told them not to. 

 

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-happens-creditor-collector-cashes-post-dated-check-early.html

 

For those who don't want to follow the link, here's the relevant section.

 

Claims Against the Bank for Releasing Funds Early

The bank can cash your postdated check at any time, even before its authorized date, unless you specifically instruct it otherwise. This means that you don’t have a claim against your bank unless you notified it not to release the funds.

In order to instruct the bank not to issue the funds early, both state and federal banking laws require that you give the bank “reasonable notice of the postdating.†Federal lawdoes not provide a minimum time period within which you notify the bank. You should do it as soon as possible to allow the bank time to process the instructions. You should also describe the check to the bank with “reasonable certainty.†In other words, provide the check number, date, amount, and name of payee.

If the bank releases the funds even after you’ve instructed it not to, the bank may then be liable to you for damages that are caused by honoring the post-dated check. That may include reimbursing you for not-sufficient funds fees and penalties you incurred for subsequent checks that bounced as a result of the premature deposit.

[Bluegoat]

The husband said they could move their stuff in earlier, so IMO you kind of need to honour that now.  It was a bad idea, sure, but I don't think in itself the fact that they wanted to do so is a sign of dishonesty, there are all kinds of reasons people would want to do so if they were allowed to.

[TechWife]

 

 

ETA: what has always worried me about this is that we wrote "price negotiable for long term tenants" and our price was listed as high-ish for the area. We were expecting to go down $100-200. They never asked for any rent reduction. This is the worst red flag to me. That they don't intend to pay.

 

 

Wait - is this verbiage in the lease agreement or was it just in an ad? The price in the lease agreement will prevail over an ad. Please tell me "price negotiable" isn't in the lease.

[creekland]

You make good money on the rental, but you couldn't afford to change locks?  Does that make sense?

 

It could.  It makes good money when it's rented and one can fairly easily afford repairs/upgrades then, but is a drain when it's not rented.  A property not rented for a few months can put quite a dent on our emergency fund.  BTDT and if during the economic downturn, changing locks would have been tough.  Not so now.

 

I'm glad we didn't cash out then as we'd have taken an incredible loss.  There are times when it's better to tough it out by shoestring if needed.

 

That said, I don't think taking on these tenants was wise... but at this point, only time will tell.  I'd give it a 95% chance of turning out badly, but that leaves a 5% chance it could be ok.

[Guest]

In the U.S. a bank can cash a check at any time unless you specifically notified them and told them not to.

 

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-happens-creditor-collector-cashes-post-dated-check-early.html

 

For those who don't want to follow the link, here's the relevant section.

Claims Against the Bank for Releasing Funds Early

The bank can cash your postdated check at any time, even before its authorized date, unless you specifically instruct it otherwise. This means that you don’t have a claim against your bank unless you notified it not to release the funds.

In order to instruct the bank not to issue the funds early, both state and federal banking laws require that you give the bank “reasonable notice of the postdating.†Federal lawdoes not provide a minimum time period within which you notify the bank. You should do it as soon as possible to allow the bank time to process the instructions. You should also describe the check to the bank with “reasonable certainty.†In other words, provide the check number, date, amount, and name of payee.

If the bank releases the funds even after you’ve instructed it not to, the bank may then be liable to you for damages that are caused by honoring the post-dated check. That may include reimbursing you for not-sufficient funds fees and penalties you incurred for subsequent checks that bounced as a result of the premature deposit.

Yep. I occasionally listen to Dave Ramsey. He often has callers who write post-dated checks to cash advance places and end up in a mess because the cash advance place cashes the check. There is nothing they can do about it.

[Sarah CB]

Not quite that simple.

 

http://consumerist.com/2015/06/03/does-postdating-a-check-prevent-anyone-from-depositing-it-early/

 

Good grief.

 

I'll add that to the list of reasons I'm grateful to live in Canada.  

 

 

I just checked Wikipedia - In Canada, a post-dated cheque is not supposed to be cashed early, and if a bank does so by mistake I can ask my bank to correct the error (see blurb below).  However, in the US and the UK apparently the date on the cheque doesn't matter.  So, you guys were right in this regard - I guess I'll never write a post dated cheque in the US.  However, anyone who is paying their rent with post dated cheques in Canada can rest assured that their cheques will not be cashed early.

 

Post-dated Cheques Cashed Early

Sometimes a post-dated cheque is deposited before the date on the cheque. Banks have processes in place to look for post-dated cheques and do their best to make sure they aren’t processed early.

You can help in detecting post-dated cheques that are cashed early. Try to regularly review your transactions through online, mobile or telephone banking or at an ABM. If a post-dated cheque you wrote is mistakenly processed before its date, you should contact your bank to let them know. The cheque can be returned and the amount credited back to your account up to the day before the date written on the cheque.

[Amira]

OP, I hope things work out okay.  It's entirely possible that everything will be okay.  Most people aren't trying to scam you and these people could be good tenants despite this rocky start. They really haven't done anything dishonest or illegal at this point, and neither have you.  You've both done things that could cause a lot of trouble later though.

 

FWIW, we've never asked for a rent reduction from many different landlords in the US. I don't think their not asking for one means anything.  Actually, one of my biggest concerns as a tenant is finding a landlord who knows their rights and responsibilities so I can rely on them to do their part in return for us doing ours.  I would not be comfortable renting from someone who gave me the keys without any payment because it puts me at risk and shows they either aren't familiar with or don't care about their rights and responsibilities which greatly increases the potential for problems down the road.

[Guest]

Good grief.

 

I'll add that to the list of reasons I'm grateful to live in Canada.

 

 

I just checked Wikipedia - In Canada, a post-dated cheque is not supposed to be cashed early, and if a bank does so by mistake I can ask my bank to correct the error (see blurb below). However, in the US and the UK apparently the date on the cheque doesn't matter. So, you guys were right in this regard - I guess I'll never write a post dated cheque in the US. However, anyone who is paying their rent with post dated cheques in Canada can rest assured that their cheques will not be cashed early.

Post-dated Cheques Cashed Early

Sometimes a post-dated cheque is deposited before the date on the cheque. Banks have processes in place to look for post-dated cheques and do their best to make sure they aren’t processed early.

You can help in detecting post-dated cheques that are cashed early. Try to regularly review your transactions through online, mobile or telephone banking or at an ABM. If a post-dated cheque you wrote is mistakenly processed before its date, you should contact your bank to let them know. The cheque can be returned and the amount credited back to your account up to the day before the date written on the cheque.

It isn't any kind of hardship. Just don't pay for things if you don't have the money.

[marbel]

It isn't any kind of hardship. Just don't pay for things if you don't have the money.

 

According to a pp, it's a common practice, in fact it was for her a requirement to rent.  The rules in Canada make it a safe practice, different than in the US.

 

In the context of this thread, it's not a matter of paying for things without having the money.

 

[Sarah CB]

It isn't any kind of hardship. Just don't pay for things if you don't have the money.

 

 

Wow.  I'm not paying for things today with a post dated cheque.  It's just like setting up a direct payment from my bank account - have you ever done that?  Like for a gym membership or something else that gets paid out of your account regularly?  Would you consider that paying for something if you don't have the money?

 

Post dated cheques are used here in the same way - for paying for things that require regular payments.  Like tuition payments at our kids' private school (except that we just pay in a lump sum, we don't use the monthly payment by post-dated cheque option).  We also pay for our kids' music lessons with post-dated cheques.  And, as you heard from another poster, some landlords require post dated cheques as well.  It's in no way paying for things without having the money - it's setting up a system for future payments that will occur when the actual payment is due.

[SquirrellyMama]

Wow.  I'm not paying for things today with a post dated cheque.  It's just like setting up a direct payment from my bank account - have you ever done that?  Like for a gym membership or something else that gets paid out of your account regularly?  Would you consider that paying for something if you don't have the money?

 

Post dated cheques are used here in the same way - for paying for things that require regular payments.  Like tuition payments at our kids' private school (except that we just pay in a lump sum, we don't use the monthly payment by post-dated cheque option).  We also pay for our kids' music lessons with post-dated cheques.  And, as you heard from another poster, some landlords require post dated cheques as well.  It's in no way paying for things without having the money - it's setting up a system for future payments that will occur when the actual payment is due.

 

I think in the US it is seen as paying for something without having the money. Direct Deposit and post dated checks are not the same thing at all around here. I see a post dated check as, "I don't have the money right now, but if you cash this on Friday it will be there." Where as a DD is a convenience so I don't have to write out a check.

 

It is obviously a difference between our two countries.

 

Kelly

Edited February 10, 2016 by SquirrellyMama

[Guest]

I think in the US it is seen as paying for something without having the money. Direct Deposit and post dated checks are not the same thing at all around here. I see a post dated check as, "I don't have the money right now, but if you cash this on Friday it will be there." Where as a DD is a convenience so I don't have to write out a check.

 

It is obviously a difference between our two countries.

 

Kelly

Yep. I'm not arguing one way is better or worse, just different. In the US, writing a "hot check" is a bad idea and if your landlord asked for it, your landlord is probably shady.

[SquirrellyMama]

I could understand writing post dated checks for rent just so you don't have to remember each month to get the check in. Although, remembering to get that rent check in is a part of being a responsible person.

 

In the OP's case though, I would not have accepted those post dated checks. That was a case of not having money in the bank. If they bounce on the "post date" couldn't the renters get in trouble for writing bad checks?

 

Kelly

Edited February 10, 2016 by SquirrellyMama

[TammyS]

Yep. I'm not arguing one way is better or worse, just different. In the US, writing a "hot check" is a bad idea and if your landlord asked for it, your landlord is probably shady.

 

It's a little bit complicated, but this explains the forms of the problem:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Check_kiting

[Bluegoat]

I think in the US it is seen as paying for something without having the money. Direct Deposit and post dated checks are not the same thing at all around here. I see a post dated check as, "I don't have the money right now, but if you cash this on Friday it will be there." Where as a DD is a convenience so I don't have to write out a check.

 

It is obviously a difference between our two countries.

 

Kelly

 

That makes no sense.  Direct debit has not been around that long.  Before there was direct debit, people asked for post-dated cheques.  That is why landlords ask for them.  It just simplifies administration.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Bluegoat

[shawthorne44]

Well, at least you are on high alert now.   I'd recommend you start the eviction process the second you are legally allowed to do so.  

[justasque]

OP, if the tenants have already moved in, is there a clause in the lease about pro-rated payment for the days before the lease kicks in?  If they moved in 6 days before the 15th, and if the rent is, say, $1000, then it's around $200 for those six days.  Or did your dh let them in early for free?

 

Please check on your insurance, etc., to see if you are covered for this unpaid, off-lease time.  You don't want to find out the hard way that you are not.

[Reefgazer]

Because from experience I know that banks do not always honor the date on the check nor a stop-payment.  At least Bank of NY didn't when I had an account with them in the 80s. 

Sorry?  Why not?  If you moved out early you could call your bank and have the cheques cancelled.  Plus, post dated cheques means post dated - they can't be cashed before the date on the cheque.  If I write out a cheque for July 1, 2016, the person I give it to can't decide to go cash it in April - the bank wouldn't do it.  And if they did cash it, it would be the bank's mistake and I'd have recourse that way.

 

I don't understand what the problem is???

 

[SquirrellyMama]

That makes no sense.  Direct debit has not been around that long.  Before there was direct debit, people asked for post-dated cheques.  That is why landlords ask for them.  It just simplifies administration.

 

I have never been asked to write a post dated check, even before Direct Debit. I rented for 4 years in the 90's, and was not asked for post dated checks. Maybe that isn't done around here.

 

Now that there is direct debit I don't see why people would ask for post dated checks in the US. Where do people live in the US where post dated checks are a requirement. I wouldn't do it in the US, because you aren't protected from having your check cashed.

 

I should clarify because I did use the wrong words in a previous post. Direct debit does save me the task of writing out checks. Direct Deposit saves me from having to deposit my checks in the bank.

 

Kelly

 

 

[Tsuga]

We do - and no regrets either.  We've found many of our greatest tenants because we allow pets.  We charge a one time $100 fee (for extra cleaning), but nothing extra monthly.

 

There hasn't been a single time a pet has messed up one of our places for more than that $100 fee.

 

Yeah, we have a pet.

 

I think the real issue here is if you do the due diligence and set clear boundaries up front you probably will get good people. If you set a barrier of deposit and criminal background checks, then you really save yourself a lot of trouble.

[MooCow]

I write almost a years worth of post dated checks for enrichment classes. You have to if you can't pay for the classes ahead of time.

[EmseB]

The husband said they could move their stuff in earlier, so IMO you kind of need to honour that now.  It was a bad idea, sure, but I don't think in itself the fact that they wanted to do so is a sign of dishonesty, there are all kinds of reasons people would want to do so if they were allowed to.

 

I don't dispute this, but as a renter, every time I've wanted to move in "early", I've had to pay a pro-rated rate for those days that I've lived there, the lease indicated my actual move in day, I still had to have the deposit and first month's rent money up front, I still had to do a walk-through to verify the condition of the property and note any exceptions/damage, I had to verify renter's insurance within so many days, etc, etc, etc.

 

I've rented a lot of different places and I have never been allowed to move into one place "early" with no money, no documentation stating I was actually living there on that day, etc.

 

As a renter I would have been unprotected, and the landlord would have been as well.  It makes things very ambiguous.

 

In other words, moving in early is still moving in.

 

OP, start keeping a notebook (maybe just printing out your updates from this thread) of what is actually happening, what day they actually moved in/took possession, I hope you have photos or documentation of the condition of the property, etc.  It would be great if you never needed it.

Edited February 10, 2016 by JodiSue

[zoobie]

I have never been asked to write a post dated check, even before Direct Debit. I rented for 4 years in the 90's, and was not asked for post dated checks. Maybe that isn't done around here.

 

Now that there is direct debit I don't see why people would ask for post dated checks in the US. Where do people live in the US where post dated checks are a requirement. I wouldn't do it in the US, because you aren't protected from having your check cashed.

 

I should clarify because I did use the wrong words in a previous post. Direct debit does save me the task of writing out checks. Direct Deposit saves me from having to deposit my checks in the bank.

 

Kelly

I haven't either. First, last, and deposit had to be money that was good *right then* and would be cashed.

 

Being given a post-dated check here means you're counting on the person to do you a favor and float you until you have the cash.

[Alessandra]

This is more a question than a comment, as I have never been a LL. How are utilities handled? Are they in your name now?

[Bluegoat]

I don't dispute this, but as a renter, every time I've wanted to move in "early", I've had to pay a pro-rated rate for those days that I've lived there, the lease indicated my actual move in day, I still had to have the deposit and first month's rent money up front, I still had to do a walk-through to verify the condition of the property and note any exceptions/damage, I had to verify renter's insurance within so many days, etc, etc, etc.

 

I've rented a lot of different places and I have never been allowed to move into one place "early" with no money, no documentation stating I was actually living there on that day, etc.

 

As a renter I would have been unprotected, and the landlord would have been as well.  It makes things very ambiguous.

 

In other words, moving in early is still moving in.

 

OP, start keeping a notebook (maybe just printing out your updates from this thread) of what is actually happening, what day they actually moved in/took possession, I hope you have photos or documentation of the condition of the property, etc.  It would be great if you never needed it.

 

Yes, but the thing is the landlord told them they could.  It doesn't point to some kind of nefarious purpose on their part that they took him at his word.

 

I've had landlords that let people move items in early, or into a storage area in the building.  In the town where my dad lives, he's generally been allowed to spend a month moving stuff in before the lease starts.

[Spryte]

This is more a question than a comment, as I have never been a LL. How are utilities handled? Are they in your name now?

 

That's a good point.  Unless utilities are included in the rent, if they've moved in early - are you paying for their utilities as well as giving them free pro-rated rent till the 16th?

 

You are being very kind.  I hope this works out well for you.  

Edited February 10, 2016 by Spryte

[SquirrellyMama]

Yes, but the thing is the landlord told them they could.  It doesn't point to some kind of nefarious purpose on their part that they took him at his word.

 

I've had landlords that let people move items in early, or into a storage area in the building.  In the town where my dad lives, he's generally been allowed to spend a month moving stuff in before the lease starts.

 

We were able to move in early into one apartment before the lease started. I remember when we bought our house we didn't give up the apartment until the lease was over, due to a fear that they would let someone else move in early before their lease started. I wasn't sure if we'd be held responsible for anything negative with the new renters if our lease was still active.

 

Kelly

 

[EmseB]

Yes, but the thing is the landlord told them they could.  It doesn't point to some kind of nefarious purpose on their part that they took him at his word.

 

I've had landlords that let people move items in early, or into a storage area in the building.  In the town where my dad lives, he's generally been allowed to spend a month moving stuff in before the lease starts.

 

I'm not saying it's nefarious, I'm saying both parties leave themselves open to problems if the terms of occupation are ambiguous.  At least in the States, if things go south then there needs to be some kind of documentation.  I will grant that we live in a more litigious culture, but that is the reality.  And many people are opportunists.  Of course they would take him at his word and take a week's worth of time in the place rent-free with no money even needed up front.  There are a lot of people who would jump on that.

 

Also, I've never heard of being able to occupy a property without assuming liability or paying rent unless the landlord and tenant are very good friends or something like that.  Certainly not for an entire month.  Why would a landlord give up a month's worth of rent so that a tenant could use it as a storage facility?  If I were renting out a place, a month of rent would be a significant loss/chunk of my income stream.

[Bluegoat]

I have never been asked to write a post dated check, even before Direct Debit. I rented for 4 years in the 90's, and was not asked for post dated checks. Maybe that isn't done around here.

 

Now that there is direct debit I don't see why people would ask for post dated checks in the US. Where do people live in the US where post dated checks are a requirement. I wouldn't do it in the US, because you aren't protected from having your check cashed.

 

I should clarify because I did use the wrong words in a previous post. Direct debit does save me the task of writing out checks. Direct Deposit saves me from having to deposit my checks in the bank.

 

Kelly

 

Well it makes sense that if people can cash post-dated cheques early, no one would want to use them!

 

I would say today people tend to use post-dated cheques for smaller businesses, that will not go to the trouble to set up a system to get a transfer directly from the account on a regular basis.  So - a property management firm might prefer to set up a direct debit with a client, (although here they take cheques too) but a fellow renting out his basement flat will not. 

 

The advantages are pretty much the same as any kind of direct system, though of course then the company has to keep track of what needs to be deposited and the renter must make sure the right amount is in the bank - but that is a pretty simple filing system.  But there is no chasing people around or making special arrangements for people who are away or anything like that, on either side. 

[SquirrellyMama]

Well it makes sense that if people can cash post-dated cheques early, no one would want to use them!

 

I would say today people tend to use post-dated cheques for smaller businesses, that will not go to the trouble to set up a system to get a transfer directly from the account on a regular basis.  So - a property management firm might prefer to set up a direct debit with a client, (although here they take cheques too) but a fellow renting out his basement flat will not. 

 

The advantages are pretty much the same as any kind of direct system, though of course then the company has to keep track of what needs to be deposited and the renter must make sure the right amount is in the bank - but that is a pretty simple filing system.  But there is no chasing people around or making special arrangements for people who are away or anything like that, on either side. 

 

Agreed! I think part of the problem in the US is that people aren't aware that there isn't much protection. Now, I know that between people you can trust, this might not be a big deal. Having been a daycare owner, and having frequented daycare forums, I wouldn't trust anyone that much. I never had trouble with payments, but the stories I've heard have made me very cautious.

 

Kelly

 

Edited February 10, 2016 by SquirrellyMama

[Bluegoat]

I'm not saying it's nefarious, I'm saying both parties leave themselves open to problems if the terms of occupation are ambiguous.  At least in the States, if things go south then there needs to be some kind of documentation.  I will grant that we live in a more litigious culture, but that is the reality.  And many people are opportunists.  Of course they would take him at his word and take a week's worth of time in the place rent-free with no money even needed up front.  There are a lot of people who would jump on that.

 

Also, I've never heard of being able to occupy a property without assuming liability or paying rent unless the landlord and tenant are very good friends or something like that.  Certainly not for an entire month.  Why would a landlord give up a month's worth of rent so that a tenant could use it as a storage facility?  If I were renting out a place, a month of rent would be a significant loss/chunk of my income stream.

 

Well, in my dad's case the places had no tenants in them anyway, and it's a small town.  So - not a lot of renters and they want to get a good one, and it is easy to ask around to find out about people beforehand..

[Mergath]

You make good money on the rental, but you couldn't afford to change locks?  Does that make sense?

 

:iagree:  If you can't afford to fix the things that break in a rental, you can't afford to be a landlord.  As a renter, I get so tired of dealing with broken appliances because the landlord doesn't have the money to fix things. OP, let's say the people move in, pay their first month's rent and deposit and everything turns out fine, and then something expensive breaks, something that will cost more to repair than the rent you've taken in so far. How are you going to fix it? Are you okay with being a slumlord because you can "make good money?" That's really not okay. 

 

In our previous home, we had to go without hot water off and on for months because the water heater was broken and the landlord kept trying to fix it himself because he couldn't afford a new one. The heat didn't work right and we froze in the winter. The walls were literally collapsing because the building was a hundred years old and had those crappy plaster walls. No one should have to live like that. 

[idnib]

It doesn't take thousands of dollars in legal fees to evict a tenant. You file a paper with the court, a paper that thousands of LLs fill out every month. The tenant gets a posted Summons. At this point, most people will fix the payment problem. If they don't, you go to court on the hearing date. If you have done the correct steps and have the paper trail to prove it - certified mail, perhaps text and phone call records - the judgement can be entered against the tenant and they can be moved by the sheriff by force if they don't just go away. I don't think I have ever heard of a LL securing a lawyer to evict a tenant.

 

I was the one who mentioned the lawyer, but I'm probably coming from a different perspective, living in areas with rent control boards with very stringent requirements, non-profits which have pro bono lawyers to assist renters, etc. Most landlords I know are either well-versed in the law, or if they don't want to be they have a lawyer who handles things for them. 

 

OP, if the tenants have already moved in, is there a clause in the lease about pro-rated payment for the days before the lease kicks in?  If they moved in 6 days before the 15th, and if the rent is, say, $1000, then it's around $200 for those six days.  Or did your dh let them in early for free?

 

Please check on your insurance, etc., to see if you are covered for this unpaid, off-lease time.  You don't want to find out the hard way that you are not.

 

Yes, this. Forgetting about the rent for a moment, I would be much more concerned about my liability if there were an accident or fire.

 

OP, I am concerned that they have moved their "promise to pay" date from 2/16 to 2/19. And it sounds like they informed you of this, rather than asking?

Edited February 10, 2016 by idnib

[QueenCat]

Update.

 

Okay, they (doh!) already moved in their belongings. The woman called DH at work (from work) and DH reports that she sounds calm, normal, professional, etc, and said that they will give postdated checks on the 15th (yes, legal here) and we can cash them on the 19th. Yes, they live pay check to pay check, and with the move are in a tight spot. Which we can completely relate and understand.

 

So at this point we are waiting for the 19th. I appreciate everyone's support. Nothing to be done at this point. I just need to breathe, no point freaking out now. What's done is done.

 

ETA: what has always worried me about this is that we wrote "price negotiable for long term tenants" and our price was listed as high-ish for the area. We were expecting to go down $100-200. They never asked for any rent reduction. This is the worst red flag to me. That they don't intend to pay.

 

Okay, I won't allow to overthink this anymore. ha-ha

 

Please tell me that they won't be allowed to give you postdated checks when rent is due.... As in, if rent is due March 1st, the check can't be postdated for March 5th.

[Guest]

Agreed! I think part of the problem in the US is that people aren't aware that there isn't much protection. Now, I know that between people you can trust, this might not be a big deal. Having been a daycare owner, and having frequented daycare forums, I wouldn't trust anyone that much. I never had trouble with payments, but the stories I've heard have made me very cautious.

 

Kelly

 

As a LL who has accepted post-dated checks as a means of rent payment, I would not be shy of them at all until/unless insufficient funds started happening frequently ON or after the date of post. One guy gives us six months of PD checks at a time. It has never been a problem. I don't deposit the check until it is due. I would not dream of attempting to deposit them all the first month despite being PD. Why would I do that? How many renters have six thousand dollars hanging around in their checking account? Of course they would bounce. It would also be stealing because that money is not due yet.

[marbel]

As a LL who has accepted post-dated checks as a means of rent payment, I would not be shy of them at all until/unless insufficient funds started happening frequently ON or after the date of post. One guy gives us six months of PD checks at a time. It has never been a problem. I don't deposit the check until it is due. I would not dream of attempting to deposit them all the first month despite being PD. Why would I do that? How many renters have six thousand dollars hanging around in their checking account? Of course they would bounce. It would also be stealing because that money is not due yet.

 

Quill, you are just bringing too much sense into the discussion.  :-) 

 

Plus integrity.

 

[TammyS]

As a LL who has accepted post-dated checks as a means of rent payment, I would not be shy of them at all until/unless insufficient funds started happening frequently ON or after the date of post. One guy gives us six months of PD checks at a time. It has never been a problem. I don't deposit the check until it is due. I would not dream of attempting to deposit them all the first month despite being PD. Why would I do that? How many renters have six thousand dollars hanging around in their checking account? Of course they would bounce. It would also be stealing because that money is not due yet.

 

Which is fine for you to do, if the tenant has a history of being stable.  If they didn't, I'm sure you wouldn't be accepting payment this way.

 

And while you wouldn't do it...some people would.  The check writer is taking a big risk.  Also, mistakes happen.  Someone is putting together a bank deposit, they're tired, they write down the checks in front of them (that aren't supposed to be in front of them, but got mishandled or something), and bam! huge problem for the check writer.  Yes, yes. You fix it and all, but still, huge mess.  Who needs the hassle?

 

[38carrots]

Wait - is this verbiage in the lease agreement or was it just in an ad? The price in the lease agreement will prevail over an ad. Please tell me "price negotiable" isn't in the lease.

 

No, it is not on the lease. They signed the lease for the price we advertised. While they could have easily rented an apartment, of slightly poorer quality for $500 less, or an equivalent for $100 less.

[38carrots]

:iagree:  If you can't afford to fix the things that break in a rental, you can't afford to be a landlord.  As a renter, I get so tired of dealing with broken appliances because the landlord doesn't have the money to fix things. OP, let's say the people move in, pay their first month's rent and deposit and everything turns out fine, and then something expensive breaks, something that will cost more to repair than the rent you've taken in so far. How are you going to fix it? Are you okay with being a slumlord because you can "make good money?" That's really not okay. 

 

In our previous home, we had to go without hot water off and on for months because the water heater was broken and the landlord kept trying to fix it himself because he couldn't afford a new one. The heat didn't work right and we froze in the winter. The walls were literally collapsing because the building was a hundred years old and had those crappy plaster walls. No one should have to live like that. 

 

No worries, we fix things ASAP, has always done so. All of a sudden because I said I couldn't afford to change the locks some seem to assume that we are horrible land lords who don't fix things for the tenants. Okay, whatever.

 

[Guest]

Which is fine for you to do, if the tenant has a history of being stable. If they didn't, I'm sure you wouldn't be accepting payment this way.

 

And while you wouldn't do it...some people would. The check writer is taking a big risk. Also, mistakes happen. Someone is putting together a bank deposit, they're tired, they write down the checks in front of them (that aren't supposed to be in front of them, but got mishandled or something), and bam! huge problem for the check writer. Yes, yes. You fix it and all, but still, huge mess. Who needs the hassle?

 

What I'm saying is, there's nothing abnormal about either a LL asking for payment this way, or the tenant wishing to do it this way. The guy we have who does this is an older guy and has been doing it this way for a long time.

 

I personally like DD best of all. People who know their financial situation is tumultuous are, rightly, reluctant to set up a direct debit. Some don't even have a checking account, or a valid credit card; I have had that circumstance before, too. The defunct payers I have experienced have never (so far) been those with DD or who routinely send a stack of PD checks.

 

Of course mistakes can happen, but that is why it is important to do your job competantly. If you own and manage several rentals, as I do, you have to record and think intelligently about each one. I would have to be having some kind of seriously off day to accidentally deposit six checks, or even two, from the same tenant whoch was meant to be distributed over several months. I'm not saying I am mistake-free - certainly not - but that is one of the things I get paid for: doing the job competantly.

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

No, it is not on the lease. They signed the lease for the price we advertised. While they could have easily rented an apartment, of slightly poorer quality for $500 less, or an equivalent for $100 less.

But they didn't rent an apartment for $500 less or an equivalent housr for $100 less, a substantial saving for them because their references and lack of deposit wouldn't fly with apartment managers or savy landlords! RED FLAG!

[TranquilMind]

But there's got to be a middle ground somewhere. I can't see why it's a process that has to take months and thousands of dollars in legal fees. If you've got tenants who won't pay or who are damaging property, it seems like the laws still benefit the tenants.

It does.  Most states are extremely tenant-friendly.

 

Thankfully, I live in a rational state. 

[TranquilMind]

But they didn't rent an apartment for $500 less or an equivalent housr for $100 less, a substantial saving for them because their references and lack of deposit wouldn't fly with apartment managers or savy landlords! RED FLAG!

Right.  No capable landlord would let them in without money.

Did the OP run a credit check on these people?  That would tell a story, most likely.  I never let a tenant in without it, and without checking real landlords, and employment status.  And criminal history, of course.