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Age old math question: MM or SM?


sunshineslp
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I'm on the precipice of just being done with this math conundrum but I'd love to hear one last time, your opinion on math mammoth vs Singapore math. Details:

-this is for 1st/2nd grade

-kids previously completed thru RS B.

-I have four children and slightly prefer the streamlined teaching of MM

-however, to debate the above point, I seem to prefer SM's way of teaching (although would I always feel that way? It seems people state later on that MM is clearer in its explanation?)

 

What say you? I own both.

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

Edited by sunshineslp
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I'm not much help because we love both MM and Singapore. My son started both of them in 4th grade; he continued with both through 5th and 6th. Right now he is using MM7, but I plan to add Singapore Dimensions to his studies. We are not on a strict schedule -- and I would rather he have a completely thorough understanding of Prealgebra before he tackles Algebra. I don't think you can go wrong with either! If you downloaded MM or have the CD, you can reuse them for your younger children, though, which helps financially.

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I prefer MM for how easy it is to teach.  It looks like something I'd like if I were a kid.  However, my kiddos don't like it.  I've tried twice to get them interested.  Both kids did SM in Kindergarten and 1A.  One kid does well with Singapore.  The other needs the slower teaching of MUS, and I add some Singapore to it.  They are finishing up 1st grade now.  DS will start SM2A in a few weeks.  DD will spend some time picking up pieces not covered in MUS Alpha and then do MUS Beta starting in a month or so.

 

Take my recommendations with a grain of salt because I'm a curriculum hopper.  You name it, I've probably bought it.  Don't be like me!

 

I should add that RightStart was a bust with my kids, too.  So consider that if yours did well with RS.  If I could get over my kids' complaints, I'd pick MM in a heartbeat.  Could you do MM and throw in some CWP or something else.  Best of both worlds?

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That's a great idea, to combine programs. I should've said, my kids don't love mm either [emoji19] I tried last year and was met with massive tears. This year... It's better. I think they did well with RS. They get anxious just looking at the amount of problems on mm. I'm resigned though, to try again and maybe do it orally (part of it) or use manipulatives to make it more fun. Sm has the advantage here because it just looks more appealing.

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

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Well, you own two really solid programs you prefer the way that Singapore teaches concepts and your kids like the way that the student work in Singapore is set up.

 

Can't you just tear out/photocopy the aligned pages in the textbook, workbook, IP and CWP and staple them together? Is there a reason why you won't or can't just prep a little on the weekend and use the program that you and your kids actually want to use? I'm not being snarky, I'm serious. If you don't have the time, then maybe you can ask your DH to do it for you. Or take the PM books + stapler to the couch with you and assemble packages during TV-time?

 

 

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We, too, used RS through B/C.  (ODS made it all the way through C at breakneck pace; DD jumped ship midway through C.)  I really wanted to use MM for the cost and simplicity, and it's got such a great reputation...but then I considered my students.  ODS would be way too distracted by everything on the page, and DD would take one look and burst into tears and claim she couldn't do it, just from the packed-in nature of the problems.  (Neither would be helped by covering parts of the page, which some folks recommend, since even the individual sections of the MM pages are pretty crowded.)

 

DD is happy as a [pick your cheerful animal] with SM, so I'll stick with what's working.  (ODS moved to BA and is also happy-as-aforementioned-animal.)

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Haha! You guys are very helpful[emoji4]

 

So, the reason the packets wouldn't work (great idea, btw) is because that's not really the main drawback for me. It's the lesson plan/teaching. In SM there's just more for me to prep/plan, not a lot granted, but a few pages. Sigh. Even writing that makes me feel like a wussy. But with mm it's written RIGHT THERE with no prep, no "familiarizing" myself with the lesson prior, it's very easy to just pick up and teach. Kwim? I've not done sm before so reading through the HIG has me a tad worried about time to prepare for lessons and figuring out how to teach certain things. It seems mm is just more piecemealed out. Does that make sense? I guess I could give it a go and just see how it goes.

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

Edited by sunshineslp
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I do use the HIG for Singapore but I don't plan ahead.  I wing it.  Has worked so far.  I look in the HIG, we work through the examples in the HIG with manipulatives or sometimes we write it on his boogie board.  Then we walk through the textbook pages that are in that lesson in the HIG.  Then he works through the workbook pages. Shuffling isn't that big of a deal to me.  If I were smarter, I'd get a sticky note or bookmark for the books because finding my place every day takes the most time :)  I also don't plan in advance what I'm going to cover on each day.  I just open and go.  Mostly it's just the next full lesson.  

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Keep in mind that I don't use Singapore PM, never have. We used MM 1-6 (before there was a 7) and it worked for us. I didn't give the boys an alternative format and so they never thought to ask for one. Or they asked for one and I told them no, I can't remember honestly. Either way, we had MM so we used MM.

 

Haha! You guys are very helpful[emoji4]

So, the reason the packets wouldn't work (great idea, btw) is because that's not really the main drawback for me. It's the lesson plan/teaching. In SM there's just more for me to prep/plan, not a lot granted, but a few pages. Sigh. Even writing that makes me feel like a wussy. But with mm it's written RIGHT THERE with no prep, no "familiarizing" myself with the lesson prior, it's very easy to just pick up and teach. Kwim? I've not done sm before so reading through the HIG has me a tad worried about time to prepare for lessons and figuring out how to teach certain things. It seems mm is just more piecemealed out. Does that make sense? I guess I could give it a go and just see how it goes.


Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

Well, the worst you could do is try something and find out it doesn't work for you. But I'm going to advise you NOT to plan the lessons in detail ahead of time. At the K-2 level you can easily wing it. Don't obsess over the lesson plan and following the concrete-pictorial-abstract model precisely.  If the kids struggle with the pictorial-abstract part in the book, then go over the lesson using concrete stuff.

 

 

If you want the MM teaching notes and the Singapore PM problem sets then

1) (Have your husband) Make the packets.

2) (You) read over the MM pages for one-chapter/unit at a time, scribble some notes to yourself on post it notes and stick the notes on the packet. Both MM and PM are topical so it'll be easy to align the topics between series.

 

Actually the best thing that you can do to prepare teaching math if you aren't comfortable with the method already is read over the explanations in the student text and then work a handful of the problems yourself--not using the way you were taught, but the way that the book explains it. Then go through the whole chapter reading through the examples and picking 3-5 problems from each section to solve yourself. This shrinks your prep time to somewhere between 2 and 10 minutes per chapter.

 

 

 

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Well, you own two really solid programs you prefer the way that Singapore teaches concepts and your kids like the way that the student work in Singapore is set up.

 

Can't you just tear out/photocopy the aligned pages in the textbook, workbook, IP and CWP and staple them together? Is there a reason why you won't or can't just prep a little on the weekend and use the program that you and your kids actually want to use? I'm not being snarky, I'm serious. If you don't have the time, then maybe you can ask your DH to do it for you. Or take the PM books + stapler to the couch with you and assemble packages during TV-time?

This was really helpful advice that I hadn't really thought of. I have been through singapore 1a-6a with one child, I'm up to 5a with another, and I am using essentials with my k child and will start 1a soon. I've been trying to figure out how to implement more of the CWP and IP books. I hadn't thought to just make weekly packets! I was planning to cut off binders and try to mesh them all together in some way to add more systematic review. The idea of weekly packets is great! Then I could make the review happen as well!! Sorry to take this post off topic. :)

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We own both as well, having recently bought the entire MM bundle at Homeschool Buyer's Co-Op.  Singapore is our primary curriculum (for the boys...I've explained before that we use MUS with DD due to her LDs).  

 

I bought MM to have as an extra weapon in my arsenal...lol.  If I'm struggling with teaching a concept in Singapore...or if my kiddo isn't getting the concept in Singapore...I now have MM to turn to.  

 

Or, if I feel like my student needs some additional work on a topic, and has exhausted all of the Singapore WB pages but isn't ready to try it in IP...I now have MM for some additional practice.  

 

Finally...I can now use MM for summer review as needed.  

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I wouldn't use something that was unpleasant to the child, let alone tears, if I could help it. This is true at any age but your kids are so young. I would want the best impression of math in their minds. I'm not talking theoretically either, as I own and used very little MM because just the visual was enough to make one of mine cry.

In your place, I would try to make Singapore work.

 

 

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This was really helpful advice that I hadn't really thought of. I have been through singapore 1a-6a with one child, I'm up to 5a with another, and I am using essentials with my k child and will start 1a soon. I've been trying to figure out how to implement more of the CWP and IP books. I hadn't thought to just make weekly packets! I was planning to cut off binders and try to mesh them all together in some way to add more systematic review. The idea of weekly packets is great! Then I could make the review happen as well!! Sorry to take this post off topic. :)

 

This is exactly what I tried to do with Singapore 1 (before I jumped ship and moved DS to Math Mammoth) and it was a miserable failure.

 

It seemed like a grand plan...but I was brought to my knees by the two sided pages.  For example, I wanted him to do textbook pages 12, 13 and 14 and then workbook pages 9 and 10.  Day 1, easy.  But then, the next day I wanted him to start with textbook page 15 which was hanging out on the back of page 14 which was already stapled earlier in the packet.

 

The same thing kept happening over and over and only got worse if I tried to include CWP and Process skills pages.

 

We ended up dumping the workbook and HIG and just juggling the textbook, CWP and Process Skills.  Even that was more than I wanted to keep track of, and switching books that often was making DS twitchy so we switched to Math Mammoth.  I can print the pages single sided, add in supplemental resources and neatly proclick it all into a binder in which DS can use the blank backs of the sheets as scratch paper.

 

Wendy

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This is exactly what I tried to do with Singapore 1 (before I jumped ship and moved DS to Math Mammoth) and it was a miserable failure.

 

It seemed like a grand plan...but I was brought to my knees by the two sided pages. For example, I wanted him to do textbook pages 12, 13 and 14 and then workbook pages 9 and 10. Day 1, easy. But then, the next day I wanted him to start with textbook page 15 which was hanging out on the back of page 14 which was already stapled earlier in the packet.

 

The same thing kept happening over and over and only got worse if I tried to include CWP and Process skills pages.

 

We ended up dumping the workbook and HIG and just juggling the textbook, CWP and Process Skills. Even that was more than I wanted to keep track of, and switching books that often was making DS twitchy so we switched to Math Mammoth. I can print the pages single sided, add in supplemental resources and neatly proclick it all into a binder in which DS can use the blank backs of the sheets as scratch paper.

 

Wendy

I completely blanked out the part that the books are two-sided!! Good point!! I will keep using singapore. I know how to teach it since this will be my 3rd time through. I may just need to do 3 days of regular singapore then do CWP and IP on Thursdays and Fridays.

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I have both.  I have used both extensively.

 

Singapore is more age-appropriate for younger children.  MM has more benefits the older you go.

 

 

To make Singapore work for me:

 

Sticky notes.

 

Place sticky notes in 3 different sections.  Work in a section until you need a break, work in the 2nd section until you need a break, work in the 3rd section, and lather, rinse, repeat.  We hit 2-4 sections in a 20-40min math session (depending upon the age of the child).  I try to see-saw between computations, geometry and word problems in every lesson.

 

You can vary MM like that too.  Give a page of addition and a page of geometry and a page of measurements.  Do HALF of the problems on a page.  Move on if that was easy.  Do the other HALF of those pages if the child needed help.

 

 

 

Here is the thing:  You are going to spend time on math sooner or later.  Spend the time now.  Gil's advice to work through the child's work ahead of time is wise.  It takes a very short time.  After you've taught through it once, Singapore is just as pick-up-and-go as MM.  (I don't use the HIG anymore.  I started with Miquon though, so the HIG seemed anemic to me anyway.)

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Sweetpea3829:

 

So would you think MM to be just as strong as SM? Or easier to teach? That's great that you have both:) great plan!

 

 

Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)

 

I haven't gotten deep enough into MM to pass judgment on it quite yet. Plus, I'm still trying to get the Light Blue series to download correctly, lol.

 

I have printed off some mental math for my younger boys, and the middle boy took one look and said, "I've gotta do it all? Both sides?"

 

"Yep!" I said and...he did. Both did. I wouldn't necessarily make them do the entire page every time (the pages ARE packed).

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