Bio in 8th or wait.....

[Murrayshire]

First of all, dd12 is partial to Life Sciences. She wants to become a vet or have a career involving animals. She will be taking pre-algebra next year, doing some this year, gearing up for Algebra 1 in 9th. This year we have covered Earth science for 1st semester....she loathes this....my plan was to finish up the year with physical science. For the last couple weeks she has been going through certain topics in her science encyclopedias & making a slideshow presentation on what she has learned each day, plus watching videos. (I assumed they were physical science related topics....low and behold, she is studying animals again!)

 

So, on that note I am trying to decide if I should have her take my co-op class using The Elements & Carbon Chemistry for 8th or take the HS Biology class and count that for HS credit leaving her to take AP Bio later in HS. Ugh! I'm afraid that Bio would be to heavy of a load......and depending on her math pace, I wouldn't want it to become a dreaded class.

 

Any advice?

[GAPeachie]

Interested to hear what others say. My daughter is about to turn 13 later this week and is very much on the same path. 

[AliR]

We have started Biology early (8th), with the intention of it taking as long as it takes into 9th, rather than rushing through the subject that interests DD most.

[Lori D.]

As far as the Math/Science connection goes, I think you'll be fine if Algebra 1 is done the year after Biology; I really cannot think of any Biology concepts that require working knowledge of Algebra skills...

 

A big plus for doing Biology in 8th is that you have DD's high interest going for you. ;) Another plus is that if you need to, you can always slow down the pace, and finish the Biology in 9th -- maybe even *plan* on scheduling it that way and finishing 9th grade science with a 0.5 credit of Anatomy, or Zoology.

 

Is the co-op class more for lab support? If so, then you could still take the co-op and just be off-schedule with the labs -- do the labs when the co-op schedules it, but cover the text at your own speed, and then refer back to the labs when you reach that part of the text -- and consider doing some additional labs on your own at that point.

 

Or does it actually do solid teaching and student support, so that if you take the class you really do need to keep up with their schedule to receive any benefit from the class?

 

 

Another option is to forego the homeschool co-op for Science and do a specialty-focused Life Science course next year in 8th grade -- Zoology leaps to mind…  :tongue_smilie: That would be great prep for then doing Biology in 9th, as there would be a lot of subject overlap, and since this is 8th grade Science, you wouldn't have to do all of a text, but could pick-and-choose topics...

 

Check out some of these resources:

The Internet Science Room: High School Zoology Curriculum 

Jason Project: educator packs Marine Animals of the Arctic; Dolphins

Zoology textbook (Miller & Harley) -- high school level, so you could pick-and-choose through it

The Great Courses: Biology: The Science of Life

 

As part of your course activities, you might also see if DD can volunteer once a week:

- animal shelter

- horse stable

- vet's office

- zoo -- or at least arrange some behind-the-scenes tours, or "shadowing" zoo workers

 

 

Another idea that would be very useful prep for high school Science is to do Physical Science in 8th (overview of Chemistry and Physics topics) -- OR, at least cover the Chemistry portions of a Physical Science course (very important for future STEM career with animals) -- AND intersperse Zoology topics. In other words, custom-design an 8th grade course to give her an added boost for being able to do more advanced Sciences in high school...

 

One last thought: if Christian materials are okay, what about doing both year 1 and 2 of Rainbow Science in 8th grade -- year 1 is Physical Science (Physics, then Chemistry), and year 2 is mostly Life Science with just a bit of Meteorology and a few miscellaneous topics at the end. It is quite do-able to accomplish both years in 1 year, scheduling science 4x/week. The downside is that to buy both years to do in one year is pricey (almost $300) -- but, you can re-sell the durable equipment when done and re-coop a bit of your investment. The  nice thing about Rainbow is that it is largely done solo and it is "complete", with all equipment and supplies included...

 

Just a few random thoughts! BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Lori D.

[Penelope]

Can you design a biology class for her that is not quite high school level but will be enough of an intro, catering more to her interests? Or can she do the co-op while not worrying about the tests and grades, and not giving high school credit? Or you could list it on the transcript as completed before high school, but without a grade, and tell her not to worry about grades but just do the best she can. I don't know if that would work for your dd or the way your co-op works. If the co-op uses Apologia for biology, that is not a very intense course.

 

And she can still do AP biology later in high school either way, as long as she has some introduction to the concepts.

[SebastianCat]

My 8th grade DS is taking Biology through a co-op this year as well as Algebra 1.   He is doing very well and I'm really glad I let him take it now.   He really wants to take additional sciences in high school.

 

There is no math required for Biology (just a lot of memorization), but my understanding is that students need a strong foundation in Algebra before taking Chemistry.   So if your DD is very interested, I'd allow her to take Biology in 8th at the same time as she takes Pre-Algebra, but she would need to take something other than Chemistry along with Algebra 1 the following year.   An Advanced Biology, Marine Biology, Anatomy & Physiology, etc. course would be a good choice.

[Murrayshire]

Is the co-op class more for lab support? If so, then you could still take the co-op and just be off-schedule with the labs -- do the labs when the co-op schedules it, but cover the text at your own speed, and then refer back to the labs when you reach that part of the text -- and consider doing some additional labs on your own at that point.

 

 

YES, THIS WILL BE MORE OF A LAB CLASS DUE TO TIME CONSTRAINT, BUT WILL HAVE SCHEDULED READING, TESTS, ETC.

 

 

 

Another option is to forego the homeschool co-op for Science and do a specialty-focused Life Science course next year in 8th grade -- Zoology leaps to mind… :tongue_smilie: That would be great prep for then doing Biology in 9th, as there would be a lot of subject overlap, and since this is 8th grade Science, you wouldn't have to do all of a text, but could pick-and-choose topics...

 

 

SHE REALLY WANTS TO DO SCIENCE WITH CO-OP NEXT YEAR. WE SKIPPED OUT THIS YEAR TO DO OUR OWN THING. THIS SOUNDS GREAT THOUGH AND THANKS FOR THE LINKS!

 

 

 

Another idea that would be very useful prep for high school Science is to do Physical Science in 8th (overview of Chemistry and Physics topics) -- OR, at least cover the Chemistry portions of a Physical Science course (very important for future STEM career with animals) -- AND intersperse Zoology topics. In other words, custom-design an 8th grade course to give her an added boost for being able to do more advanced Sciences in high school...

 

 

IF WE FINISH UP WITH SOME PHYSICAL SCIENCE THIS YEAR AND COVER ELLEN MCHENRY CHEM BOOKS FOR 8th, WILL THAT PREPARE HER FOR HIGH SCHOOL SCIENCES OKAY?

Her sister will be taking HS Bio next year at co-op, too, so having them together would be nice.

 

 

 

Just a few random thoughts! BEST of luck, whatever you decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Please see my notes in ALL CAPS!

Thank you LoriD!

[Paula in MS]

I will be following this thread because I have no idea what to do with my life science lover next year.  I had planned to let her take biology early in 9th with Wilson Hill, but they changed their science sequence around where you take biology in 11th after chemistry.  So, because chemistry is a pre-requisite......I'm stuck.  A full chemistry course is not really what I wanted to do in 9th.  She took physical science in 8th, so that's out.  She was so looking forward to biology. :(  I might pull from some resources listed above and do our own thing.

 

[Lori D.]

Sounds like you have settled on an answer! :)

 

re: choice of science for next year

DD REALLY wants to do the Biology co-op class. So, Biology in 8th grade it is! :)

 

re: the co-op class

Class will focus on your labs, you will oversee the readings/tests at home -- that does give you flexibility if DD is not able to keep up -- just go to class and enjoy the labs with the class, finish Biology at home at DD's pace.

 

 

IF WE FINISH UP WITH SOME PHYSICAL SCIENCE THIS YEAR AND COVER ELLEN MCHENRY CHEM BOOKS FOR 8th, WILL THAT PREPARE HER FOR HIGH SCHOOL SCIENCES OKAY? 
Her sister will be taking HS Bio next year at co-op, too, so having them together would be nice.

 

I don't quite understand -- are you asking about doing TWO sciences next year in 8th grade -- the high school level Biology with support from the co-op class -- AND Ellen McHenry's Chemistry???

 

Or is this a question about what to do for finishing up 7th grade (some Physical Science AND Ellen McHenry Chemistry books), in order to be able to do Biology in 8th -- and will those all prepare DD for high school sciences??

 

 

If the first -- no, I would not attempt 2 sciences in 8th grade unless your student is totally science crazy and would love a double helping.

 

​If the second… I don't know. Depends on your student. I was not familiar with Ellen McHenry's books, so I skimmed the download samples for The Elements and Carbon Chemistry -- they look simultaneously like too much and not enough to me -- too much in the technical details that can wait until high school, and not enough in the meat of middle school info to really be able to make sense of the topic. But again, that's just my initial impression from a "flash skim". ;)

 

Usually, physical science is done 2-3 years in advance of doing full-fledged Chemistry and Physics, so it's like a lite version of each so that when the student hits the full-on topic, the student already has a basic understanding of foundational ideas, so in high school the student goes more deeply into those topics that the student already understands. And the student is not "thrown" when it comes to adding in all of the math -- balancing molecular equations and converting to moles (Chemistry), or solving vector or rate equations (Physics).

 

I guess I am wondering how much of a boost will your DD get by trying to squeeze in some basic chemistry and physics in the next 3 months, and how much of it will she retain for when she next sees Chemistry (2.5 years from now), or Physics (3.5 years from now)… In other words, would there be something ELSE that would be more useful immediately, or for prep or getting started with the text that she'll be for doing Biology next year, that you could be doing in the 3.5 months you have left of 7th grade?

 

If the answer is "Physical Science (or Chemistry) is what would best benefit us for the next 3.5 months", then it's a matter of what material to use that best fits your DD's learning style. Does your DD like Ellen McHenry materials? Does she understand the science from that presentation style? If so, then, "sure" -- cover what you reasonable can of The Elements (or Carbon Chemistry) in the next 3 months without jamming or rushing. Go for it and have fun.

 

If DD's only so-so on Ellen McHenry, or if you want some Physics overview as well as Chemistry overview, then what about something like Reader's Digest How Science Works -- read 2-4 pages a day 3x/week, and do some TOPS experiments 1-2x/week (depending on if you do a 4-day or 5-day science). Analysis would be excellent for Chemistry.

 

If you can't get to all Physical Science topics, ones that I would suggest focusing on that would be a good preview for when you see Chemistry and Physics in depth in high school:

 

Chemistry:  states of matter; structure of atoms; elements; chemical reactions

Physics: energy, force, motion

 

 

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Lori D.

[Murrayshire]

Sounds like you have settled on an answer! :)

 

re: choice of science for next year

DD REALLY wants to do the Biology co-op class. So, Biology in 8th grade it is! :)

 

re: the co-op class

Class will focus on your labs, you will oversee the readings/tests at home -- that does give you flexibility if DD is not able to keep up -- just go to class and enjoy the labs with the class, finish Biology at home at DD's pace.

 

 

 

I don't quite understand -- are you asking about doing TWO sciences next year in 8th grade -- the high school level Biology with support from the co-op class -- AND Ellen McHenry's Chemistry???

 

Or is this a question about what to do for finishing up 7th grade (some Physical Science AND Ellen McHenry Chemistry books), in order to be able to do Biology in 8th -- and will those all prepare DD for high school sciences??

 

 

If the first -- no, I would not attempt 2 sciences in 8th grade unless your student is totally science crazy and would love a double helping.

 

​If the second… I don't know. Depends on your student. I was not familiar with Ellen McHenry's books, so I skimmed the download samples for The Elements and Carbon Chemistry -- they look simultaneously like too much and not enough to me -- too much in the technical details that can wait until high school, and not enough in the meat of middle school info to really be able to make sense of the topic. But again, that's just my initial impression from a "flash skim". ;)

 

Usually, physical science is done 2-3 years in advance of doing full-fledged Chemistry and Physics, so it's like a lite version of each so that when the student hits the full-on topic, the student already has a basic understanding of foundational ideas, so in high school the student goes more deeply into those topics that the student already understands. And the student is not "thrown" when it comes to adding in all of the math -- balancing molecular equations and converting to moles (Chemistry), or solving vector or rate equations (Physics).

 

I guess I am wondering how much of a boost will your DD get by trying to squeeze in some basic chemistry and physics in the next 3 months, and how much of it will she retain for when she next sees Chemistry (2.5 years from now), or Physics (3.5 years from now)… In other words, would there be something ELSE that would be more useful immediately, or for prep or getting started with the text that she'll be for doing Biology next year, that you could be doing in the 3.5 months you have left of 7th grade?

 

If the answer is "Physical Science (or Chemistry) is what would best benefit us for the next 3.5 months", then it's a matter of what material to use that best fits your DD's learning style. Does your DD like Ellen McHenry materials? Does she understand the science from that presentation style? If so, then, "sure" -- cover what you reasonable can of The Elements (or Carbon Chemistry) in the next 3 months without jamming or rushing. Go for it and have fun.

 

If DD's only so-so on Ellen McHenry, or if you want some Physics overview as well as Chemistry overview, then what about something like Reader's Digest How Science Works -- read 2-4 pages a day 3x/week, and do some TOPS experiments 1-2x/week (depending on if you do a 4-day or 5-day science). Analysis would be excellent for Chemistry.

 

If you can't get to all Physical Science topics, ones that I would suggest focusing on that would be a good preview for when you see Chemistry and Physics in depth in high school:

 

Chemistry:  states of matter; structure of atoms; elements; chemical reactions

Physics: energy, force, motion

 

 

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

 

"I don't quite understand -- are you asking about doing TWO sciences next year in 8th grade -- the high school level Biology with support from the co-op class -- AND Ellen McHenry's Chemistry???

 

Or is this a question about what to do for finishing up 7th grade (some Physical Science AND Ellen McHenry Chemistry books), in order to be able to do Biology in 8th -- and will those all prepare DD for high school sciences??" Lori D.

 

Oh no......Okay, so I will be teaching "The Elements" and "Carbon Chemistry" (adding in other books too) at our co-op next year (grades 5-8)...dd will be in 8th.  BUT the high school level science will be doing Biology....(my rising 10th grader will be taking that, btw).... We are trying to decide between the two classes for 8th grade.

**When dd8th grader gets to 9th grade....Biology won't be offered again due to it being offered next school year when dd is in 8th grade.....unless I teach it....or we just do Science at home.  Hope this makes sense.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the HS Bio if they let her take it.

 

I'm going to go back and read your whole post but wanted to comment on the confusion first.

Thanks!!

[Lori D.]

"I don't quite understand -- are you asking about doing TWO sciences next year in 8th grade -- the high school level Biology with support from the co-op class -- AND Ellen McHenry's Chemistry???

 

Or is this a question about what to do for finishing up 7th grade (some Physical Science AND Ellen McHenry Chemistry books), in order to be able to do Biology in 8th -- and will those all prepare DD for high school sciences??" Lori D.

 

Oh no......Okay, so I will be teaching "The Elements" and "Carbon Chemistry" (adding in other books too) at our co-op next year (grades 5-8)...dd will be in 8th.  BUT the high school level science will be doing Biology....(my rising 10th grader will be taking that, btw).... We are trying to decide between the two classes for 8th grade.

**When dd8th grader gets to 9th grade....Biology won't be offered again due to it being offered next school year when dd is in 8th grade.....unless I teach it....or we just do Science at home.  Hope this makes sense.

Right now, I'm leaning towards the HS Bio if they let her take it.

 

I'm going to go back and read your whole post but wanted to comment on the confusion first.

Thanks!!

 

Ah, now I understand! :)

 

 

Honestly, it sounds like your DD would be fine doing the Biology next year, esp. since older sibling will be doing it too. That can really help a student make the leap. :)

[mom31257]

My ds is going to be in 8th grade, and the group of kids he's been with this year in physical science will be doing high school Biology. He wants to stay with his friends rather than join the group of rising 6th-7th graders. I'm going to let him take the high school class, but I'm not counting it for high school credit. I want him to do dual enrollment by his junior and/or senior years, and I know a Christian college has a dual enrollment satellite campus near here which offers Biology. He'll do it for credit then. I'll have him doing science and math every year regardless of what he does in 8th, so I'm not counting anything in 8th grade for credit. We do all the testing at home, and co-op is only teaching and labs. That really takes away the pressure for performance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Murrayshire]

My ds is going to be in 8th grade, and the group of kids he's been with this year in physical science will be doing high school Biology. He wants to stay with his friends rather than join the group of rising 6th-7th graders. I'm going to let him take the high school class, but I'm not counting it for high school credit. I want him to do dual enrollment by his junior and/or senior years, and I know a Christian college has a dual enrollment satellite campus near here which offers Biology. He'll do it for credit then. I'll have him doing science and math every year regardless of what he does in 8th, so I'm not counting anything in 8th grade for credit. We do all the testing at home, and co-op is only teaching and labs. That really takes away the pressure for performance.

 

Thank you! I guess if we go with Bio in 8th, I'll just wait towards the end of year before deciding if it was a worthy hs credit. The co-op class will be taking tests at home as well..... teaching/labs(mostly labs) in class only. We have a Career Center near us for high schoolers that allow homeschoolers to take AP and Honors classes; free.  She could always take a higher level of Bio in 11th there.....after Chemistry in 10th.

Thanks again!