Getting a junior higher struggling with math ready for high school algebra

[bluebonnetgirl]

I know this is not a high school question "per se", however high school is looming (2017) and I have some math concerns for with my 7th grader and wondering how you more seasoned moms with high schoolers would handle this issue.

 

I am contemplating changing math curricula for my younger son.  He has been doing ACE math and doing well up until this year (7th).  (Other son is doing great with ACE math).  Younger so wants to know the why of everything and is having a hard time remembering the rules.  He likes to be able to logic it out and is my more verbal, literature loving kid.  I, myself did great with straight up rules based math, remembering the facts and the algorithms and it took me through college calculus and a master's degree in a science discipline.  But his brain is wired differently.  Now that we are entering the algebra phase where he has to manipulate different sides of the equation and remember all the rules, he is making silly mistakes, like erroneously using cancellation when adding fractions instead of finding the common denominator, forgetting to use cancellation when multiplying fractions and ending up with large impossible numbers, not understanding why you have to apply the inverse operation when you move a number to the other side of the equation, and forgetting that when you add a whole number to a decimal, you have to give the whole number a decimal and line up the decimals.  He is good with his basic multiplication and division facts and can do long division fine, and he generally gets long multiplication right, but I see he is not taking shortcuts when multiplying say .80 x 500 and instead doing it the long way adding columns of zeroes, versus just doing 8 x 5 and then adding the zeroes and applying the decimal.  He still seems to have a hard time understanding WHY in a word problem you multiply a number by a fraction and why the answer is smaller (versus larger) when you are multiplying.   The more advanced nature of 7th grade math, where there are numerous steps to solving a problem where all the pieces you learned have to come together are exposing his weaknesses.  He also keeps asking, do I really need this in real life? (algebra especially)

 

Last year, we did both ACE math and Teaching Textbooks, and he seemed to do better, but the day took so long.  I looked at CLE, but looking at their 5th grade diagnostic test exposed some areas he has not hit yet, like integers (they begin that in 7th grade ACE math, whereas they obviously introduce it in 5th grade CLE).  I loathe to start him all the way back at 5th or 6th CLE, since I need to get him ready to be in algebra by 9th and we are already half way through his 7th grade year.  He seems like he could benefit from the spiral method, as he need constant review as to not forget things.  He tires easily with many problems and I think becomes bored and distracted, thus making silly mistakes. I have looked at Life of Fred, and while the style seems like it would suit him, I am concerned he would not get enough practice and get too caught up in the story become and distracted by it.  Maybe LOF and Teaching Textbooks?  Or maybe ACE and LOF?  I want to make sure he is ready for 9th grade Algebra and I only have a year and a half to do that.  He definitely wants to go to college, although it will not be a math or science discipline, but something in the visual arts.

 

Thank you for any and all suggestions!

 

[MarkT]

I have no idea what ACE Math is but you may want to look at:

http://cathyduffyreviews.com/math/Fresh-Approach-Algebra-and-Geometry.htm

 

Since your student is only in 7th grade, he is not behind. Sounds like he needs a tutorial approach to learning Algebra with some first principles.  

Just memorizing rules is quite limited anyways.

[Julie of KY]

Consider a math tutor to shore up the foundational math.

 

I get kids that want to move on to algebra with weaknesses in fractions, negative numbers, distributing, etc. I think it is a disservice to move them ahead too fast as they continue to flounder more and more until they get the basics of manipulating equations down solid. Having someone teach him the WHY's so that they can be applied to new and different situations makes a world of difference - though it takes TIME to solidify these skills.

[Storygirl]

I am not a math expert, but I do have experience with CLE. So if you think it could be good for your son (and it does provide consistent practice with the things you mention), there are some ways that you could move through it at a quicker pace, so that starting in the 500 level now would not prevent him from doing algebra in 9th grade.

 

* Have him take the placement test to see where he would actually need to start (I know you said you looked at it, but taking the test might give you better information).

 

* If there are only a few areas in 500 that he has not learned, you may be able to teach those things quickly and then move into 600. There is a built-in way to do this, because the first light unit of each level actually reviews the previously learned material. So for example, 601 reviews all of the main concepts of the 500 level in mini lessons, and I believe it also tells you the specific light unit from level 500 where that concept was introduced. So you can either pause and teach the concept yourself if necessary (the concepts are usually presented in small steps that would not be hard for you to figure out and teach) or you could purchase those particular light units from level 500 that contain the instruction he needs. The review light unit is actually designed to either let the child skip ahead to the next lesson if they understand, or to complete more practice pages if needed. I did this when I switched my children into CLE from another program, and it worked well.

 

* The other benefit of this built in review that CLE provides in the first light unit of each level, is that once you are using the program and ready to move to the next level, you can skip that first light unit if you don't need to review. So we moved right from 510 into 602, skipping 601. So you then only have 9 light units to complete for the next level instead of 10. This lops about fifteen days of work off of what you need to complete for a level. This works well if you are doing school year round, because, without a summer gap, the child has not had a chance to forget the previous material.

 

*Can you do math year round and perhaps six days a week?

 

* CLE has less than 180 lessons per year. I think each light unit has 14-17 lessons, and there are 10 units per year. So if you work daily and through the summer, you can accomplish more than one level in a year, even if you do all of the material in all of the light units. But there are ways to shorten the program while maintaining the meat of it.

 

* Some people skip the quizzes (there are two in each light unit), so that reduces the workload by another 20 days per level.

 

* Some people do two lessons per day. The student can complete the new material for each day but only do the review pages for ONE of the two days. Since CLE reviews extensively, that ends up being enough review for some.

 

* Some people do every lesson but cross off the review problems that their student does not need to practice, which also allows you to move more quickly through the material.

 

* CLE's prealgebra is contained in two light unit levels -- 700 and 800. Some people only use CLE through 600 and then switch to a different prealgebra program that can be completed in one year. So if you could work through the summer and get your son through levels 500 and 600 by late fall, then start a different prealgebra program and use it through the remainder of next school year plus the summer after, your student could still be ready for algebra in 9th. The key would be to work steadily and year round.

 

You might find something that you like better, but if you think CLE would be a good fit for him, there are ways that you could make it work.

[Mom22ns]

My strongest recommendation is to pick ONE math program. Trying to do 2 at a time is a bad idea. It takes too much time and the benefits aren't worth it. Pick a program that he learns well from and stick to it.

 

I haven't used any of the programs you are considering, so I won't advise which one to pick, but for high school - 1 math program at a time. :)

[Lanny]

My strongest recommendation is to pick ONE math program. Trying to do 2 at a time is a bad idea. It takes too much time and the benefits aren't worth it. Pick a program that he learns well from and stick to it.

 

I haven't used any of the programs you are considering, so I won't advise which one to pick, but for high school - 1 math program at a time. :)

 

This.   DD began as a Distance Learning student (TTUISD) in 6th grade and is now in 9th grade. They use a Prentice Hall Math series of textbooks. Continuity.    Try to find what works best with the DS you wrote about and then STICK WITH THAT.   Some textbooks, some videos, some Instructors, can explain things in a way that the student understands better.  Some teachers do not understand the material. Some teachers cannot  explain the material to a student. Some teachers can explain things in a magical way that makes it easy to understand. Try to find what your DS learns best from.  GL to him.   

[bluebonnetgirl]

Thank you all SO VERY MUCH for all your input.  Right now I am looking into all these options.  I am also wondering about Rod and Staff - 7th and 8th grade math.   The only thing is that it only goes to 8th grade, and then I will have to find another provider for algebra.

[MIch elle]

I've used both R&S math and CLE math for my sons.  CLE is more advanced in what schools are teaching and expect dc to know TODAY.  I recommend CLE math over R&S.

 

If you, the parent, have the basics of math and/or can learn it yourself and stay one step ahead of your dc, I recommend finishing your current math program and using CLE math 7 for grade 8 next year.  Why - because CLE math 7 is a complete math program to get ready for high school algebra and geometry.  CLE math 8 is nice but not necessary.  There is A LOT of repetition from year to year and mostly CLE re-teaches what they expect dc to know in THAT year.  Yes, you can go from CLE math 7 into algebra!  CLE, Teaching Textbooks or Saxon algebra will work fine if your dc does well with CLE math 7 (there is so much repetition!!).

 

If you are not sure, order both CLE math 7 AND 8 and compare them (if you can afford to pay to send one back or use it for other dc).  Time is important - don't waste it!  Compare carefully and USE ONLY ONE MATH PROGRAM AT A TIME!  Ask me how I know - LOL!

 

P.S.  I still have an unused CLE math 8 almost complete set; as well as Teaching Textbooks algebra 1&2, Saxon algebra 1. 

[lewelma]

Nightgalaxy, I'm a math tutor and have seen this before.  I see this when a student is either a self-taught homeschooler or a school kid who has gotten a bit behind and now the teacher is teaching above his head. Will your ds allow you to teach him or is he self-taught?  And if he is willing to be taught, are you personally able to teach the material conceptually even though you naturally are an algorithmic learner?  All the kids that I work with who need to know WHY become the strongest students; in contrast, the students who are willing to accept and mimic algorithmic manipulations usually crash and burn.  My point is that his desire to know why will serve him well if he can get someone to explain the whys to him as many times as is needed.  Can that be you?  If not, is there someone who can do this job?

 

The first thing I would do is stop all algebra.  He clearly has not internalized numerical fractions and his difficulty with word problem highlights his lack of conceptual understanding.  You need to pull him back to whatever book focuses on fractions and word problems and work from there.  And you need to do this conceptually even if it takes him playing with measuring cups in the kitchen (which I have had a 15 year old do).  

 

The next thing you need to do is constant review.  I do this orally with flashcards.  I make cards like 1/2+3/4, or what fraction is 0.11?, or explain what 1/2 divided by 1/8 means using pizzas.  This is not about memorizing your way out of math, but rather notes made into questions for effective reviewing.  A new card is made for new ideas, cards are drilled orally with me every day, and over time cards are pulled out that are mastered and put into weekly review.  This allows you to customize the revision, do it regularly and quickly.

 

I also require a student to draw a picture for fraction calculations as a way of forcing conceptual understanding.  Can you draw a picture of 1/3+1/4 to show why you need a common denominator to add them?  Can you draw a picture showing what 1/2x1/8 means conceptually?  Once I show them, I require a picture with every single problem until I am assured that the conceptual understanding is there, which can take months. Yes it slows them down, but it is worth it in the long run.

 

Finally, for fraction word problems I require a diagram and a mathematical statement (are you adding, subtracting, multiplying, or dividing?  This usually stumps kids. They can get the answer but don't know mathematically what operation they have used.) Basically, you get 1 point for the diagram, 1 point for the mathematical statement (1/2+1/4), and 1 point for the calculation. Giving a point score seems to motivate them to do the full work which forces them to work with the problem conceptually, rather than just guessing with a hunch.

 

I'm happy to answer any questions you have,

 

Ruth in NZ  

Edited January 29, 2016 by lewelma

[bluebonnetgirl]

Ruth,

 

Thank you so much.  I pulled him from public school after 5th grade, and have been homeschooling him the last 2 years.  Some of his challenges stem from the presentation and poor retention of elementary math at the public school.  He has actually improved a lot over the last almost 2 years homeschooling, but tends to forget concepts that are taught.  Once I review it with him, he seems to do fine and remember it.  But getting him to that automatic stage is the goal.  I would not call him self taught, maybe self directed, but not self taught.  He comes to me often for guidance, and we go over every problem he gets wrong and he has to correct it.

 

Even so, I am spending a lot more time working problems with him and explaining a lot.  I am considering finishing out the curriculum wer are in (7th grade math, ACE) and supplementing with something like Fast Math.  

 

Would love your thoughts.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2016 by nightgalaxy

[bluebonnetgirl]

Now that I am looking over his CLE placement test, I see what I would call careless mistakes, especially with long division with decimals.  For instance. he forgets to subtract the last remainder even though he puts the right multiplier on the line and thus comes up with the wrong remainder.  Or he will forget to put the decimal in.   Stuff like that.  Then he will get a bunch of problems right, and suddenly, careless mistakes.  It looks like he forgot what a rhombus and parallelogram are; he had that about 2-3 months ago and hasn't seen it since, and it looks like he forgot how to measure angles properly even though he was doing them great a month ago.  He even forgot the order of operations, and he just had that 3 weeks ago, and it seemed he had that down at the time.  So....he is not remembering what he has previously "mastered".  It is not cementing into his head.  Which is why I think he needs a spiral program for constant review.  Also, detail is not his strength.  He likes to read  and is a good writer, very artsy and creative.  Math is boring and tedious for him and allows no margin for error, so it is a bit tortuous for him.  His attention is very likely wandering a lot.  He is talkative, imaginative, and not one to sit for long periods of time.    

 

 

[lewelma]

Honestly, I think it is much less about which curriculum you use than how you teach it and how you require it to be written. I can and do use any curriculum.  So if you like what you have, use it, but make the changes I laid out in my pp.  

 

From my point of view, you need to teach him the material *first* before he does the work, and then you need to *require* that he draw the picture and be able to explain to you how each operation in fractions works.  I would NOT get him to automate until he really has the conceptual learning down.  The problem is that you are an algorithmic learner and he is a conceptual learner.  To be an effective teacher, you need to teach him in the way that he learns.  So automating is *your* approach -- you over learn (automate) each skill so that your mind can focus on the bigger picture and gain insight.  In contrast, he needs to master the bigger picture first before any automating. You are a parts to whole learner in math and he is a whole to parts learner.  You are just teaching him backwards, that's all.  

 

So *you* need to change your approach to teaching, and you may need to adapt the curriculum by requiring *fewer* problems but done with a detailed diagram that he then has to orally explain.  Having him do 25 questions that are all the same will NOT work with this type of learner.  In my experience, he will never take the drill to create the big picture like you did in your studies (and by the way, I'm the same as you in my learning style).  All he will do is get confused because nothing makes sense, and then he will get discouraged, and slow waaaaay down because he is frustrated, and then he will start doing stupid little errors because his mind is wandering because he does not know what is going on.  Am I close?

 

So have him do fewer problems with clearer conceptual understanding both in diagrams, mathematical statements, and orally explaining it to you.  You can also use something like Khan Academy to teach *you* how to teach him.  I have recently needed to get on the internet to find a better way to teach logs because what I was doing with one student just was not working and I needed to learn a different and better way to teach him.  No shame in that.

Edited January 29, 2016 by lewelma

[bluebonnetgirl]

I do understand what you are saying.  And yes, we have watched Khan Academy videos together, created diagrams, and I have converted word problems into scenarios he can relate to.   I think a lot of the problem is his brain wanders A LOT and he loses his concentration and focus.  I see it in the inconsistency.  Will take some of the tips you gave though, especially having him orally explain it to me.     

[lewelma]

We were writing at the same time, so just went back and read your last post.  

 

Yes, clearly you need to review.  But spiral like Saxon is way too parts to whole for a conceptual learner.  I would suggest that you spend 10 minutes at the beginning of each lesson reviewing 1 topic.  I do this with my younger boy.  You need to copy the final quiz for each unit to reuse and make a pack.  Have him take the quiz as normal at the end of the unit, but then also put the quizzes into a rotation schedule to be redone.  Have him do 1/5th of a quiz each morning for 10 minutes.  So if you have covered angles, decimals, and polygons so far this year, you simple rotate  Monday: angles 1/5th of quiz, Tuesday: decimals 1/5 of quiz, Wednesday polygons 1/5 of quiz, and then rotate back around.  As you get more topics, the rotation becomes bigger, but you can also drop topic and put them in for a fortnightly review. 

 

This approach keeps the topics whole, but allows for extensive review.

Edited January 29, 2016 by lewelma

[lewelma]

I do understand what you are saying.  And yes, we have watched Khan Academy videos together, created diagrams, and I have converted word problems into scenarios he can relate to.   I think a lot of the problem is his brain wanders A LOT and he loses his concentration and focus.  I see it in the inconsistency.  Will take some of the tips you gave though, especially having him orally explain it to me.     

 

I teach an ADHD boy.  It is very frustrating.  What is required is that 1) I sit with him the entire time he does any work and continually refocus him, 2) allow him to take microbreaks with a buzzer to draw, 3) require him to run my steps every 30 minutes (I have 110 of them).

 

It also sounds to me like he is not owning it.  He does not want to do it, so you are leading him by a nose ring to do his work, which is exhausting you and frustrating him.  Teaching a kid to own it is a very long and involved process (I know because of my younger boy).  This is how you go about it.

 

1) He must set his own goals.  What does he want to accomplish?  He needs to find out *why* he needs this math in the future.  He needs to identify that he is likely going to get behind if he does not work effectively. He needs to find something to motivate him, but *he* must set it, not you or it will be reward/punishment which really angers kids of that age. His goals need to be both in focus (I will work for 10 minutes without my mind wandering ) and in content (I will finish this book this year which means 1 unit every 2 weeks).

 

2) He needs to track his progress.  Big picture kids need to see where they are going.  How many units? Make a chart, have him tick it off when he has completed it once, and then every time he reviews it.  He needs to also track the length of time he can focus.  If is only 5 minutes, well so be it.  Mark it on a chart, and set a goal for 10 minutes within 2 weeks.  

 

3) He needs to learn to own his study skills. You need to show him how to be efficient.  He needs to track where his errors are and with your help figure out how to stop the careless errors. He needs to think about when he works most effectively, how long he can work, how he can set up his notebook/study space to encourage the focus.

 

This process takes at least 6 months, ask me how I know. But it has to be done.  Kids have to own it.  One of the biggest things I do with the kids I tutor is get them to own it.  They won't work for anyone except me, but overtime they begin to work for themselves.

[bluebonnetgirl]

Yes, indeed.  He is beginning to see the "owning it" part.  This has been a process, that will need to continue of course.  It's all about growing up and becoming an adult.

[lewelma]

You sound really frustrated.  I hope you can find a method that works.  Good luck!

[bluebonnetgirl]

No not frustrated, hopeful, but looking for some feedback .

[lewelma]

Oh good.  Hopefully, some others will come in and give you curriculum advice since I can't.

[bluebonnetgirl]

Storygirl and Mich elle,

 

Thank you both for your comments on CLE.  I am going to have ds finish the CLE math placement test, and then have him work through Math 601 and go from there.  I do plan on finishing out the year with 7th grade ACE, but gradually introducing CLE to shore up the weakers area, so he can start with CLE 7 in the fall.  I think he will benefit greatly from the continual review of that curriculum. 

 

I think that is a good plan.

 

Thanks again.

 

Edited January 29, 2016 by bluebonnetgirl