article: FTC Sues DeVry

[MarkT]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/ftc-files-deceptive-advertising-lawsuit-against-devry-1453916905

 

Although I am fiscally conservative, I am not a big fan of "for-profit" colleges. Especially with the government involvement with student loans. I feel like we taxpayers are just enriching the owners/stockholders of these institutions.

 

(Not saying that the other colleges are doing a good job fiscally, which they aren't)

[Tsuga]

As someone who works in higher ed, I find it appalling that the government ever loaned money to students to attend these colleges. I think the government should own up to their own fault in the matter, and I say this as a bleeding-heart liberal. It is just nauseating. I think every penny the government loaned students to attend these colleges should be forgiven, personally (and no, that would not apply to my loans, LOL).

 

For-profit colleges are something of a scam. The problem is that nobody respects the degrees, no matter how hard you think you are working, or even if you are working hard. So you're having someone pay a premium for a piece of paper that doesn't give you entry anywhere. It's depressing to watch.

 

I know our college works hard, but honestly, it is HARD to change higher ed. It is hard with the unions to say to faculty, "Your program is not preparing students to succeed, so you are fired." In fact, it's illegal to do so in some cases due to faculty contracts. It is insane.

 

Higher ed is in for a massive, massive shake-up in the next ten years. It is a little scary, to be honest, because I see a lot of instruction just shoveled off to the side. Students simply don't have the money to pay cash and the government is going to stop loaning money for English degrees for all but the absolute best, all but the teachers. Just watch. Right now they are hounding the vocational programs, but everyone is talking about the liberal arts as well. Literally at every meeting we have, "Well how come they are tracking the earnings of our IT students because it's a certificate and not a degree but you can get an associate transfer degree and then a bachelor's in English like THAT is not a scam?!?"

 

And it is so true. Just watch, the next 15 years are going to be a huge mess. The problem is the unions derive their support from the public and the teachers. Well, the teachers have to send their kids to college too and nobody wants to subsidize tenured faculty at $75k, however little that may be compared to PhDs in tech or other fields, because that is happening on medium-interest loans.

 

Ugh, I can see it all caving in before my eyes, the Ponzi scheme of the liberal arts. Not to say the education isn't valuable, but it's not marketable, and student loans are a massive mess. Such a mess.

 

I'm going to bed.

[MerryAtHope]

 "Well how come they are tracking the earnings of our IT students because it's a certificate and not a degree but you can get an associate transfer degree and then a bachelor's in English like THAT is not a scam?!?

 

Why is it a scam? Every employer I've had post college (in 4 vastly different industries) was looking for someone with strong writing skills and was glad to see I had an English degree. Liberal Arts degrees ARE marketable.

[G5052]

My thing is that they'll loan to nearly any student who walks in the door at the state community college.

 

It's one thing to dream and be able to bring to bear what is needed to get the work done. Yet another to dream of a college degree, take out the loans, and not have the aptitude and determination to carry through. With only about 25% of degree program students graduating within 3 years of starting, that's a lot of students who have loans on work that they couldn't finish for whatever reason. Even though it may not be comparatively a lot of money, it's still a loan they have to repay.

 

At one college, I watched scads of resources spent trying to improve retention while cutting back on adjunct faculty development, technology, and slashing departments.

 

IMHO they need to be more thoughtful about who is admitted, but what do I know?

[swimmermom3]

As someone who works in higher ed, I find it appalling that the government ever loaned money to students to attend these colleges. I think the government should own up to their own fault in the matter, and I say this as a bleeding-heart liberal. It is just nauseating. I think every penny the government loaned students to attend these colleges should be forgiven, personally (and no, that would not apply to my loans, LOL).

 

For-profit colleges are something of a scam. The problem is that nobody respects the degrees, no matter how hard you think you are working, or even if you are working hard. So you're having someone pay a premium for a piece of paper that doesn't give you entry anywhere. It's depressing to watch.

 

I know our college works hard, but honestly, it is HARD to change higher ed. It is hard with the unions to say to faculty, "Your program is not preparing students to succeed, so you are fired." In fact, it's illegal to do so in some cases due to faculty contracts. It is insane.

 

Higher ed is in for a massive, massive shake-up in the next ten years. It is a little scary, to be honest, because I see a lot of instruction just shoveled off to the side. Students simply don't have the money to pay cash and the government is going to stop loaning money for English degrees for all but the absolute best, all but the teachers. Just watch. Right now they are hounding the vocational programs, but everyone is talking about the liberal arts as well. Literally at every meeting we have, "Well how come they are tracking the earnings of our IT students because it's a certificate and not a degree but you can get an associate transfer degree and then a bachelor's in English like THAT is not a scam?!?"

 

And it is so true. Just watch, the next 15 years are going to be a huge mess. The problem is the unions derive their support from the public and the teachers. Well, the teachers have to send their kids to college too and nobody wants to subsidize tenured faculty at $75k, however little that may be compared to PhDs in tech or other fields, because that is happening on medium-interest loans.

 

Ugh, I can see it all caving in before my eyes, the Ponzi scheme of the liberal arts. Not to say the education isn't valuable, but it's not marketable, and student loans are a massive mess. Such a mess.

 

I'm going to bed.

 

I thought we had been reading articles here that were even saying that Silicon Valley was looking again at Liberal Arts emphasis because of the critical thinking and communications aspects.

 

 

[Tsuga]

Why is it a scam? Every employer I've had post college (in 4 vastly different industries) was looking for someone with strong writing skills and was glad to see I had an English degree. Liberal Arts degrees ARE marketable.

 

The degree, if it were affordable for middle-class people and subsidized by the government for children of poor people, is not a scam.

 

The skills are valuable.

 

Enticing people to take out loans with over 5% interest in some cases, for inflated living expenses in a dormitory, so that they can get a piece of paper which will only provide them with modest gains in income, is a scam.

 

I'm not opposed to government subsidies for the degree for the appropriate number of graduates for the workforce, and which does not require students to take out the equivalent of a small mortgage on their future. I think that's worth it.

 

It is the loan program, with private loans on top of it, that I believe is misleading and dangerous particularly for working-class families.