WWYD: Dual Credit Class Movie

[charlotteb]

My DD is taking a dual credit class at our local community college.  She is 14 years old.  She just started the class last week.  Earlier we were looking over the syllabus and noticed that they are showing a movie one week in class. I have always been very careful about what movies my kids watch so we decided to look it up online.  There is absolutely no way I would want her to see this movie.  It has full nudity and other sexual things.  Has anyone had experience with this kind of thing? How did you handle it? Should we go talk to her professor? Do you think they'll make an exception for her because of her age or not?

[regentrude]

The professor may be willing to make an exception for her, but it creates a very unfortunate situation socially by singling her out as a child whose parents veto the required media, and, depending on how the film is integrated with the rest of the classwork, making additional work for the instructor.

In my personal opinion, any student taking a college class should be expected to handle the material and not require the instructor to adjust his classwork to cater to children. You may want to reevaluate whether this choice of course is suitable for your daughter, or whether you want to withdraw her from the class.

[Mom22ns]

No, I don't think they should make an exception for her for her age. I think that it is important not to sign up for college classes until students are ready to handle adult content. If the class would show that type of movie, they are also going to be having equally adult discussions. She could go talk to the professor and tell them she isn't comfortable with it, but I would not expect the professor to accommodate her. 

 

[OhioMomof3]

I would not talk with the professor. I would just not attend class that day.

[Hoot]

I tend to be of the opinion that college course work is about more than just the ability to complete the level of work, but also the maturity to handle the subject matter. If she is capable of doing the work but is unable to handle the mature themes of such a class, perhaps this class is not appropriate for her at this time.

 

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[teachermom2834]

I would withdraw her. She is very young to handle something you would not allow even at home in a group of older peers. Additionally, it is unlikely this is an isolated event. If those topics are fair game for the movie I expect they would be throughout the class.

 

However, I believe it is totally unacceptable to ask or expect a college course to be adapted for a younger student. I would withdraw.

[clementine]

No, I don't think they should make an exception for her for her age. I think that it is important not to sign up for college classes until students are ready to handle adult content. If the class would show that type of movie, they are also going to be having equally adult discussions. She could go talk to the professor and tell them she isn't comfortable with it, but I would not expect the professor to accommodate her. 

 

I agree with this.  If your child is ready to attend college courses, you should be ready to have her be pretty independent.  My dd had to attend a play with very mature themes when she took a dual-credit dramatic literature course.  I wasn't thrilled, but couldn't imagine intervening.  

[EKS]

My DD is taking a dual credit class at our local community college.  She is 14 years old.  She just started the class last week.  Earlier we were looking over the syllabus and noticed that they are showing a movie one week in class. I have always been very careful about what movies my kids watch so we decided to look it up online.  There is absolutely no way I would want her to see this movie.  It has full nudity and other sexual things.  Has anyone had experience with this kind of thing? How did you handle it? Should we go talk to her professor? Do you think they'll make an exception for her because of her age or not?

 

When you sign your young teen up for a college class, you are signing her up for potentially adult situations.  I would not talk to the professor.  If you feel really strongly, I'd withdraw her from the course and be more cautious in the future about which classes she takes at the college.

[OnMyOwn]

Maybe you could have her skip class that day and watch the movie at home with you. You could fast forward through the parts that bother you.

[Reefgazer]

IMO, a student taking a college class should be prepared to tackle adult themes because college is an adult environment.  If this is unacceptable to you, I would not ask for special accommodations (in fact, the professor is probably obligated to have the same expectations of all students).  I would advise DD to drop the class or skip the movie and take the grade hit; dropping the class seems most appropriate if you feel your DD can not handle adult themes.

[quark]

DS took a community college film class at 12. We were fully aware that this would happen and were okay with R rated movies. Singling him out and approaching the prof would not have been the right thing to do and why we had a thorough family talk and some family movie hours with R rated topics BEFORE he signed up for the class.

[quark]

If there is one movie on the syllabus that you are not comfortable with I agree with skipping class that day if she must and watching it together at home. Sometimes though you cannot predict what the instructor will do. DS's Prof swapped out a couple of movies on the syllabus at the last minute.

[charlotteb]

The class is a Western Humanitites class and the movie should be an isolated problem.  It is a historical movie and the scenes are part of the history. Thanks for all the advice. I think i'll have her bring something to distract her during the questionable parts of the movie.

[Butter]

Honestly, if your child is ready for college classes this means maturity as well as ability to complete the work.  It is because of situations like this and where parents raised a fuss that has caused some community colleges to requires kids to be 16 to take courses.  I took at psychology class at 16 and we read a book of short stories.  Those short stories were all rape fantasies (mostly glorifying rape from the viewpoint of women).  It was a weird book and uncomfortable, but it was required for the class.  I was deemed able to take the class so no way would it have been appropriate for my parents to talk to the professor or try to exempt me from it or be given an alternative assignment.  If you cannot accept the assignment as appropriate, she should drop the class.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

The class is a Western Humanitites class and the movie should be an isolated problem.  It is a historical movie and the scenes are part of the history. Thanks for all the advice. I think i'll have her bring something to distract her during the questionable parts of the movie.

 

Just a word of caution...

 

Wouldn't bringing something to distract herself distract others as well? And also possibly call attention to her?

[Hoot]

The class is a Western Humanitites class and the movie should be an isolated problem. It is a historical movie and the scenes are part of the history. Thanks for all the advice. I think i'll have her bring something to distract her during the questionable parts of the movie.

If this is the case, I would definitely watch the movie ahead of time at home with her and discuss the questionable parts. It's entirely possible that those parts that you want her to distract herself during will be crucial to the discussions and assignments that will come later.

 

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[clementine]

What movie will be shown in class?

 

[Janeway]

Just a word of caution...

 

Wouldn't bringing something to distract herself distract others as well? And also possibly call attention to her?

I think if she is old enough to take a college class, then she is old enough to sit still or look away at things that make her uncomfortable without needing a distraction. It would be rude to the prof and the other students, and really, sounds like a 2 yr old in church time, needing a distraction because he is too little to be able to sit through it all.

[Butter]

The class is a Western Humanitites class and the movie should be an isolated problem.  It is a historical movie and the scenes are part of the history. Thanks for all the advice. I think i'll have her bring something to distract her during the questionable parts of the movie.

 

I would absolutely NOT do that.  If she is old enough to take the class she is old enough to watch the movie without needing something to distract herself.  If she needs something to distract herself (and possibly distract others in the class) she is NOT old enough/mature enough.  She should drop the class.  I strongly believe if you are in a college class, you do what is required.  Just because you are 14 you do not get special treatment (I feel the same way about the adult college students who want alternative assignments as well because the original assignment was too uncomfortable for them).

[charlotteb]

The movie is Goya's Ghost 

[Reefgazer]

At that age, if my mom told me to look the other way/distract myself at a certain point in a movie/book, you can be sure I'd be paying utmost attention for fear of missing the good stuff!

The class is a Western Humanitites class and the movie should be an isolated problem.  It is a historical movie and the scenes are part of the history. Thanks for all the advice. I think i'll have her bring something to distract her during the questionable parts of the movie.

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by reefgazer

[amyx4]

I would also suggest pre-watching it at home ahead of time. So that you and she can pause and discuss the movie when necessary. 

[Junie]

According to this review, I certainly wouldn't want my teenagers watching it.  I wouldn't want to watch it.

 

I think that she should skip class that day.  If it's a small part of the class, she probably doesn't need to drop.

[Lori D.]

The class is a Western Humanitites class and the movie should be an isolated problem. 

 

Maybe, but maybe not. It really depends on what "slant" the instructor and materials come from. Some Western Civ. classes compare/contrast the s*xual roles and relationships as a standard part of looking at the art, history, and culture of each time period.

 

You may wish to take a closer look at the syllabus for the specific topics to be covered in this class, and the specific materials that will be used for learning and discussion, to see if this course is a good match for your DD and your family values, or not. Best to decide that sooner rather than later, so that withdrawing and finding a substitute for this credit is a possibility if that is needed.

 

Just a general FYI: college Humanities courses (Western Civ. falls into this category) -- esp. Anthropology, Sociology, Psychology --  plus Literature courses, and Writing courses that include Literature -- frequently include adult material or topics.

 

And, of course, studio Art courses (typically drawing and painting, sometimes sculpture), use live n*de models (both male and female) who sit or stand in a pose (similar to a still-life), or sometime do a repetitive move (for sketching movement) -- but that is a traditional practice for artists, and is handled in a very matter-of-fact, non-s*xual manner, viewing the human body as form.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Lori D.

[...................]

This is one reason why we are not planning to enroll our son in ANY humanities or English or Arts courses during the first 3 years of high school. He will have to deal with and confront this stuff at some point but not at 14.

 

I don't know what you should do but can't she just take an absence for that day (our community college only allows 3 absences per quarter so be careful though)

[charlotteb]

I also read the review for the movie and definitely don't want her to see it.  Someone else posted that they wouldn't watch the movie themselves, so why would they let their child watch it? That's how I feel.  The scene that it describes seems like too much to me.

[Jenny in Florida]

This is coming from a mom whose daughter went into full-time college enrollment at age 12 (just for context).

 

College is an adult environment. Part of being "ready" for college is being mature enough to confront adult material and engage with it. As a general rule, college professors do not show films just to entertain students or to pass the time. If this instructor is showing this film, you can assume he or she has a reason for doing so and that dicussion of and references to the film will be part of the coursework.

 

I can promise this will not be the last time your daughter encounters this kind of material if she continues in college-level courses. If your daughter is not ready to view, engage with and discuss the material, she doesn't belong in the class. There are plenty of other ways to find appropriate educational challenge that do not require adults -- either instructors or other students -- to make exceptions for a young student.

 

 

[katilac]

Keep in mind that there may be an additional assignment attached to the movie, so her grade might take more of a hit than expected if she not only skips movie day but also the assignment. 

 

I agree with those who say you just need to decide if you are okay with her being exposed to adult content, because that will definitely happen in this and future classes. 

 

If she looks down during the nude torture scene, she will probably not be the only one to do so. I don't think she should have anything to distract her, though (and honestly I can't imagine what she would bring to distract herself). 

[Janeway]

Keep in mind that there may be an additional assignment attached to the movie, so her grade might take more of a hit than expected if she not only skips movie day but also the assignment. 

 

I agree with those who say you just need to decide if you are okay with her being exposed to adult content, because that will definitely happen in this and future classes. 

 

If she looks down during the nude torture scene, she will probably not be the only one to do so. I don't think she should have anything to distract her, though (and honestly I can't imagine what she would bring to distract herself). 

I am betting the movie will be one day, and then a discussion on it on another day, then it will be referenced in future discussions, and then there will be questions on the test where missing out on all this would be an issue. And, I would think the prof would ask her to leave the class if she came forward and objected based on her age. They allow high schoolers to take these classes with the understand that they can handle this environment, which is an adult environment.

[Haiku]

If you think your daughter is old enough to be in college classes, then you have to accept that those classes will likely contain adult material. It would be out of line for you to speak to the professor about it. The professor should not have to tailor his/her class to a young teen, including not giving exceptions to required materials.

[wendyroo]

I am betting the movie will be one day, and then a discussion on it on another day, then it will be referenced in future discussions, and then there will be questions on the test where missing out on all this would be an issue. And, I would think the prof would ask her to leave the class if she came forward and objected based on her age. They allow high schoolers to take these classes with the understand that they can handle this environment, which is an adult environment.

 

I do think it would be appropriate for the student to go to the professor and ask if there will be additional class time and assignments based on the movie...if that is not covered in the syllabus.  That is a perfectly reasonable question and could help them decide if the class should be dropped.

 

Wendy

[Guest2]

Hmmm. My take is quite different. If this movie has nudity and other sexual things, I don't believe it is an appropriate choice for a college class. I would be uncomfortable watching . I am 50, married and have four kids, and am quite comfortable in my sexuality , thank you. I still wouldn't want to sit in a class watching that. Inappropriate choice.

I guess I would rent the movie , and watch it myself. I would note where I could fast forward. Show the nonobjectional parts to your DD and if any conversation that might be relevant during the other parts..relay that to her. That way she can discuss the educational content without being so embarrased. I doubt the discussion will center on the nudity, ect...anyway. Maybe look into a Coldplay device? Sorry, i editted to add at same time as Garga

Edited January 27, 2016 by Silver Brook

[Garga]

My son will be 14 in a couple of months. He is not a mature 14 year old. He's rather innocent and he doesn't want to be mature in these things yet. If we really wanted him to take this class, then I'd watch the movie myself and give him detailed descriptions of what happens in it. Perhaps see if this would be enough of a detailed description: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goya%27s_Ghosts

 

I would have him skip class for the actual viewing of the movie.

 

Can you tell from the syllabus if he has to write a paper about the movie? If they only watch and discuss, then I think it's ok to stay home and just explain the plot to him. But if they have to write a paper about it, he'd really have to watch the movie and that would probably be the dealbreaker to me and I'd have to pull him from the class.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Garga

[OnMyOwn]

Hmmm. My take is quite different. If this movie has nudity and other sexual things, I don't believe it is an appropriate choice for a college class. I would be uncomfortable watching . I am 50, married and have four kids, and am quite comfortable in my sexuality , thank you. I still wouldn't want to sit in a class watching that. Inappropriate choice.

I guess I would rent the movie , and watch it myself. I would note where I could fast forward. Show the nonobjectional parts to your DD and if any conversation that might be relevant during the other parts..relay that to her. That way she can discuss the educational content without being so embarrased. I doubt the discussion will center on the nudity, ect...anyway. Maybe look into a Coldplay device? Sorry, i editted to add at same time as Garga

Yes! This. I never sat through anything like this in college and I was never asked to read anything like what has been mentioned above. To me, the teacher is out of line to ask such a thing. But, my guess is that it's common and accepted these days. Why, I'll never understand.

[ValRN]

No, I don't think they should make an exception for her for her age. I think that it is important not to sign up for college classes until students are ready to handle adult content. If the class would show that type of movie, they are also going to be having equally adult discussions. She could go talk to the professor and tell them she isn't comfortable with it, but I would not expect the professor to accommodate her. 

I agree with this statement. My DD also started dual enrollment courses at 14, and we carefully choose her courses to avoid situations like this.

[Garga]

Hmmm. My take is quite different. If this movie has nudity and other sexual things, I don't believe it is an appropriate choice for a college class. I would be uncomfortable watching . I am 50, married and have four kids, and am quite comfortable in my sexuality , thank you. I still wouldn't want to sit in a class watching that. Inappropriate choice.

I guess I would rent the movie , and watch it myself. I would note where I could fast forward. Show the nonobjectional parts to your DD and if any conversation that might be relevant during the other parts..relay that to her. That way she can discuss the educational content without being so embarrased. I doubt the discussion will center on the nudity, ect...anyway. Maybe look into a Coldplay device? Sorry, i editted to add at same time as Garga

Yes! This. I never sat through anything like this in college and I was never asked to read anything like what has been mentioned above. To me, the teacher is out of line to ask such a thing. But, my guess is that it's common and accepted these days. Why, I'll never understand.

This is how I feel, too. I hate stuff like this in college classes. I took a literature class in college about 10 years ago, so I was 32/33. Every book included a ton of foul language (war books with solidiers trying to out-cuss each other), or involved things like bloody murder scenes, violent rape, etc. I hated it. Just hated it. I don't really know what the point is of that. There are plenty of choices of books that discuss adult themes that aren't completely graphic. It's like professors are trying to shock their students just for the sake of shocking them. Edited January 27, 2016 by Garga

[Haiku]

If this movie has nudity and other sexual things, I don't believe it is an appropriate choice for a college class. I would be uncomfortable watching . 

 

I do not feel that it should be the goal to make sure that students are comfortable all the time. A college education should expand your horizons and challenge you. I'm particularly worried about all the "trigger warnings" and students getting excused from classes and professors being challenged and disciplined for telling students things that the students might not like/feel uncomfortable with/disagree with. It is becoming a real problem in higher education, and I worry that academic freedom is being eroded in the service of making sure no one is ever offended or uncomfortable.

 

College is not the time to wrap yourself in the mantle of comfort unless, I guess, you choose a narrowly focused religious college whose beliefs you are in full agreement with.

[Butter]

Yes! This. I never sat through anything like this in college and I was never asked to read anything like what has been mentioned above. To me, the teacher is out of line to ask such a thing. But, my guess is that it's common and accepted these days. Why, I'll never understand.

 

FWIW, I was 16 in 1994.  That's when I took the psychology class with the rape fantasy stories book.  That's not "these days."  That's 22 years ago.

[bettyandbob]

I think you should have your dd drop the class. This "problem" will come up again and again in literature, writing, social science, art and humanities courses. If you judge her not mature enough or if you are not ready for her to be exposed whether or not she is mature, then you will need to avoid these courses. Math, science, foreign language may be better bets.

 

Additionally, you should not talk to your dd's instructors. College students are expected to act like adults. Therefore they need to advocate for themselves.

[OnMyOwn]

FWIW, I was 16 in 1994. That's when I took the psychology class with the rape fantasy stories book. That's not "these days." That's 22 years ago.

Well, I guess I was fortunate then. I was in school at about the same time and I never had that experience.

[elegantlion]

I am in an ethics class this semester. Our first topic is homosexual activity, which we are using for reasoning and argumentation. It's not necessarily an easy topic for any student in the class, but it's an excellent discussion point in developing well-formed arguments. 

 

The discussion that evolves around uncomfortable topics is important, even if we disagree on the medium in which they are being conveyed. 

 

I would pull her from the class rather than set her to not be able to handle conversations around uncomfortable topics. In the future, you might see if you can find a syllabus from classes you want to see what might be read or watched. I would agree that at 14 you want to have some oversight into college level classes, but if you feel the need to shield her from class material (which is well within your right) then it simply is not the right class at this time. 

 

 

[chiguirre]

 This "problem" will come up again and again in literature, writing, social science, art and humanities courses. If you judge her not mature enough or if you are not ready for her to be exposed whether or not she is mature, then you will need to avoid these courses. Math, science, foreign language may be better bets.

You might also need to screen certain high school classes. Trinqueta is currently reading The Orestaia with her Landry Academy English class. It contains references to patricide, filicide, cannibalism, infidelity, the brutality of war including rape, etc. It's not a movie with visual images, but it's there and students have to read it in order to do well in the class.

[Alessandra]

Thank you for including the name of the movie. If it had been a film with some quick, normal nude scenes, I would say, watch at home first. Your dd is in an adult class, etc.

 

However, I changed my mind after reading about the movie. It seems far from a film that happens to have a bit of nudity. Skimming through the plot in wiki, I see that the lead role female is stripped naked and tortured, later the male hero is aroused by her as she is naked in church, praying -- no, I did not make this up. Later, she is raped. I stopped reading about this point. Then wiki said the reviews are almost all bad. So I would be very dubious about a professor who chose this movie out of all the possible historical movies out here. I am not sure I would want my college age kid warching it (not that I have a college age kid yet, lol).

 

Can you look up reviews of the instructor? In your position, I would like more info. If his choice for a movie is so edgy, perhaps his discussions will also go into territory you don't want your dd to explore.

[Guest2]

I do not feel that it should be the goal to make sure that students are comfortable all the time. A college education should expand your horizons and challenge you. I'm particularly worried about all the "trigger warnings" and students getting excused from classes and professors being challenged and disciplined for telling students things that the students might not like/feel uncomfortable with/disagree with. It is becoming a real problem in higher education, and I worry that academic freedom is being eroded in the service of making sure no one is ever offended or uncomfortable.

 

I agree that college students should be challenged. Classes should challenge students ACADEMICALLY . I believe colleges are forgetting this vital function . After years of teaching students to think critically, I am at a loss to understand why this film would be vital to the course.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Silver Brook

[katilac]

College is not the time to wrap yourself in the mantle of comfort  

 

This is a great phrase. 

[quark]

I agree that the movies my son watched in his class were not this edgy. My concern is not so much that they are showing this movie. Perhaps he wouldn't have been ready for that much gore and sexual cruelty then (he was very mature then too and hence difficult for me to speculate). My concern for my child would have been an inability to advocate for himself. If it concerned him enough HE should have been able to go up to the instructor to ask about the particular choice of movie. He should have been able to explain his resistance to it and age should not be the reason. I am perplexed why this movie was chosen for your DD's class but still if you think she will be uncomfortable there is still a good opportunity for her to learn how to manage this situation herself whether or not the decision involves dropping or sitting it out. That is one of the experiences being college ready should hold for her.

[KarenNC]

FWIW, I was 16 in 1994.  That's when I took the psychology class with the rape fantasy stories book.  That's not "these days."  That's 22 years ago.

 

I was a freshman in the early 80s at a (nominally) Baptist college when I took a class on theology and modern literature in the religion department. In addition to authors like Karl Barth, Paul Tillich (including a discussion of his sex life) and CS Lewis, we had to read John Updike's "A Month of Sundays." One of the reviews on Amazon: “Updike is playful, witty, ironic, ever-fresh, ever-provocative, and ever so ever erotic. . . . A Month of Sundays is both poignant and very funny. . . . One of America’s most original, most subtle, and most engaging writers.â€â€”The Boston Globe

[Haiku]

Classes should challenge students ACADEMICALLY . 

 

I find nothing non-academic about being confronted with artistic expression that we may find repulsive, disturbing, or uncomfortable.

 

FTR, if the student in question objects to material in the class that she finds inappropriate, she is within her rights to discuss it with her professor. But 1) the mother should not be involved and 2) something should not be deemed inappropriate simply because a mother doesn't want her 14 year old exposed to it or wouldn't want to view it herself.

[G5052]

Being a professor myself and knowing some of the humanities professors, I can say with some certainty that every humanities class at the local community college is going to have issues if you are concerned about adult content. For that reason mine waited on those classes, and I don't recommend them when asked.

 

The other issue is that community colleges are oriented towards students, not parents, even in a dual enrollment situation. FERPA laws limit how much a parent can interact with a professor regarding their student. Every school is a little different, but I can tell you that locally in a case like that, I would have the parent meet with a dean to work out the situation. They would not want me to make an exception for a student just on the basis of age. I would not be making that decision myself. The problem is that it sets a precedent and brings in an element of unfairness regarding the rest of the class. There at least, professors can not make special exceptions without involving the next level up and documentation of the exception. 

 

If they're just watching the movie with no assignment, you might get away with just not having her come. But if there's an assignment, you might be in a tough spot where she has to watch it.

[Jenny in Florida]

FWIW, I was 16 in 1994.  That's when I took the psychology class with the rape fantasy stories book.  That's not "these days."  That's 22 years ago.

 

Yep, I graduated from college in 1986, and we read and watched plenty of material that doesn't sound any different from the description of this film. 

 

As someone else said, the point of college is not to make students comfortable. In fact, I would argue that the point of art is not to make viewers (or readers or listeners) comfortable, but to express something about the human condition that the artist -- and the professor who assigns it -- find worthy of examination and discussion. It seems to me that this film, as described, fits into that category and is entirely appropriate for an audience that is presumed to be made up of adults.