High School Grammar Instruction. Again. *Sigh*

[Reefgazer]

I've posted previously on DD's grammar and punctuation disasters, here:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/583585-need-some-advice-on-9th-grade-english/

 

For those who don't want to re-read the thread, the short version is that DD is very good at completely R+S grammar and knows the rules of punctuation, but does not apply these things to her own writing.

 

Based on the advice I received on this thread, I decided to forge ahead with literature and writing, and correct grammar and punctuation based on her actual writing; we'll work on editing on her actual papers.  Given that, is there any value at all to adding in things like Editor In Chief/Daily Grammar/other grammar specific practice?  We are so very time-pressed, if there is not any value to these things I would like to skip them.   

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by reefgazer

[OnMyOwn]

If she's having a lot of trouble, I'd be tempted to add in Editor in Chief just to make sure she gets regular practice. If you are confident she will be doing lots of writing and editing very regularly, I guess I wouldn't worry about it as much. (If you do use Editor in Chief, I recommend the workbook and not the cd. If I remember correctly, I think the cd was hard to use.)

 

ETA: I understand about the time crunch. I have a reading comprehension workbook that I want my son to use because it really helps him with test prep and he'll be taking the ACT this year, but it is just sitting on my dresser gathering dust because I don't feel he has time for it. We do what we can do. Sometimes it's not perfect.

Edited January 25, 2016 by OnMyOwn

[Momling]

I used to copy and paste a page-long text (on a topic we're studying) into a word document and then make it all lower case and remove all the punctuation (use find/replace). Then I'd have my daughter have to re-punctuate and capitalize it.

[JoJosMom]

I've posted previously on DD's grammar and punctuation disasters, here:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/583585-need-some-advice-on-9th-grade-english/

 

For those who don't want to re-read the thread, the short version is that DD is very good at completely R+S grammar and knows the rules of punctuation, but does not apply these things to her own writing.

 

Based on the advice I received on this thread, I decided to forge ahead with literature and writing, and correct grammar and punctuation based on her actual writing; we'll work on editing on her actual papers.  Given that, is there any value at all to adding in things like Editor In Chief/Daily Grammar/other grammar specific practice?  We are so very time-pressed, if there is not any value to these things I would like to skip them.   

 

 

 

We aren't in the same position here, so I don't know of how much help this will be, but we use Editor-in-Chief as a "game."  I check to see how many errors are in the passage and set a timer.  DD races the timer to see how long it takes her to find the errors.  I make sure to review the passage first so, if DD gets stuck, I can give a hint.  Around here, it's easy to turn missing something into a laugh, so this approach works.  If your DD finds grammar to be frustrating, though, this could be torture.  Just throwing it out there in case.  Good luck finding what works. :001_smile:

[lllll]

nm

Edited February 2, 2016 by - 8 95

[Luckymama]

I used to copy and paste a page-long text (on a topic we're studying) into a word document and then make it all lower case and remove all the punctuation (use find/replace). Then I'd have my daughter have to re-punctuate and capitalize it.

I would do this with a paragraph at a time when dd was in 5th/6th/7th. I started out by switching punctuation around and capitalizing/uncapitalizing letters, maybe 7-10 changes in a paragraph.

[Kuovonne]

I think the advice you got in your other thread to use dictation is the way to go.

 

It sounds like she can punctuate when punctuation is all she has to think about (R&S grammar),

but cannot apply it to original writing. Dictation bridges that gap. Did you look into Spelling Wisdom?

 

If you don't want to use a preset dictation program (usually found in spelling programs), you could

come up with your own passages from her other studies. Just find a passage in a relevant book

and start dictating. You can even change the wording on the fly to adapt it to her level.

 

You can also try sentence combining. You start with very short sentences and then combine

them to make more complex sentences (which will obviously have more complex punctuation).

For example ...

 

George Washington led the Continental army in the American Revolution.

George Washington was the first president of the United States.

He was a popular president.

He left office after two terms.

 

becomes ...

 

George Washington, the leader of the Continental army during the American Revolution, became the first president of the United States, but despite his popularity, he stepped down after two terms in office.

[Reefgazer]

Regarding the bolded:

 

After my previous thread, I did order Spelling Wisdom and we are going to use that for high school.  Can I pull dictation sentences out of there, as well?  It seems like I can.  I'll probably order the dictation book that a poster mentioned in my previous thread.

 

DD is actually very good at combining sentences in R+S; not so much in her own writing because they tend to morph into run-ons or weirdly-punctuated sentences.

 

I think the advice you got in your other thread to use dictation is the way to go.

It sounds like she can punctuate when punctuation is all she has to think about (R&S grammar),
but cannot apply it to original writing. Dictation bridges that gap. Did you look into Spelling Wisdom?

If you don't want to use a preset dictation program (usually found in spelling programs), you could
come up with your own passages from her other studies. Just find a passage in a relevant book
and start dictating. You can even change the wording on the fly to adapt it to her level.

You can also try sentence combining. You start with very short sentences and then combine
them to make more complex sentences (which will obviously have more complex punctuation).
For example ...

George Washington led the Continental army in the American Revolution.
George Washington was the first president of the United States.
He was a popular president.
He left office after two terms.

becomes ...

George Washington, the leader of the Continental army during the American Revolution, became the first president of the United States, but despite his popularity, he stepped down after two terms in office.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

You said she doesn't apply them, but is she able to pick that out when editing her own papers?

 

 

[Reefgazer]

Most of the time.  The exceptions are the weirdly-organized sentences that would be difficult to punctuate properly without a bit of re-working.

You said she doesn't apply them, but is she able to pick that out when editing her own papers?

 

[Kuovonne]

After my previous thread, I did order Spelling Wisdom and we are going to use that for high school. Can I pull dictation sentences out of there, as well? It seems like I can. I'll probably order the dictation book that a poster mentioned in my previous thread.

 

You can dictate the passages in Spelling Wisdom. Have her study them first.

Make sure she knows how to spell all the words and understands all the punctuation.

 

DD is actually very good at combining sentences in R+S; not so much in her own writing because they tend to morph into run-ons or weirdly-punctuated sentences.

 

Can she "uncombine" her original sentences into individual clauses, then

recombine them with correct grammar? She'll probably need several hours to a

day between uncombining and recombining so that she can forget the original sentence.

 

How complex are the sentences in R+S? How detailed are the instructions on how

to combine the sentences? The sentence combining in R+S might to be too easy.

[GoodGrief]

I'm of the opinion that some people (especially creative types, who tend to be wonderful writers) will always need a personal editor. :-) If the additional work of editing is stressing her out, I'd be inclined to drop it. Hopefully she is aware of the need though to have someone look over her work and help her fix errors.

 

It's funny, just a couple days ago I was having a conversation with a professional writer (magazine) married to another pro writer. He talked about being concerned about his now-high school aged son, who had/has terrible handwriting and a complete lack of punctuation. However, his writing was wonderfully imaginative. The kid was in public school, and the teachers through the years have encouraged them to focus on the content of the writing, and not so much on the mechanics (as that bit just didn't seem to be sinking in).