I need help with language arts

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

I am feeling really overwhelmed by language arts with my older two girls. Until they were reading well, we didn't do anything except reading and handwriting. I'm doing the same with my younger two. My plan was to have them start all the other language arts subjects after the reading was going well. This has been hit or miss and is really not going well. My oldest will be in 7th grade next year and I really need to get this figured out now.

 

There are just so many things that fit under "language arts". I don't know where to start or how often to do each thing or how long it should all take each day. We did LLATL for about a year and a half but I wasn't sure it was covering everything adequately so I decided to drop it and do my own thing. I've failed miserably with that plan. I got TWSS to teach writing we like it but I don't think we're doing it often enough. I'm considering going back to a curriculum like LLATL or ELTL but I thought I'd get an idea of what language arts looks like in other families to help me figure out what is both reasonable and would fit our family.

 

My list of what I want to cover is:

 

Writing/composition

Spelling

Grammar

Copywork

Dictation

Literature

Mechanics

 

Is this all? Am I missing something? Do you cover these things every year? How often do you do them and how long does it take? I'm not necessarily looking for specific curricula at this point. I'm mostly trying to figure out what a good language arts program includes. I know we're going to be pretty far behind at this point. How would you handle that? Any help would be much appreciated.

[Kiara.I]

There are a couple of things that I think fall under LA that you might want to include, if they're not covered in other ways:

- elocution

- public speaking

 

I can't really speak to how it works with older kids yet, but if you want ideas for your youngers...

We are doing poetry memorization.  We work on it *cough* daily *cough*.  Well, not daily.  But we try.  Anyway, pretty consistently.  And then every couple of weeks or so, we practice "recitation."  So the child stands across the room from me, and we work on standing feet together (or spaced slightly), hands at sides, chin up, looking at me, NO FIDGETING, and reciting the poem.

We'll add members to the audience.  Soon it will be DH and I.  Sometimes we'll borrow Grandma and Grandpa.  We may take over small portions of festive holiday meals to practice in front of larger audiences sometimes.  I'm hoping to get public speaking skills built this way, but still not working with the child's own material, just memorized pieces.

 

At some point we'll add in speaking off their own topics, or maybe spontaneous speeches, or maybe I'll find them a Toastmasters group...

 

Other than that, we're doing WWE to cover narration, copywork and dictation, which takes maybe 10-20 minutes a day.  We're doing FLL for grammar and mechanics.  And we're doing AAS for spelling.   Literature is just "here, have a book to read" at the moment.

[Ellie]

I am feeling really overwhelmed by language arts with my older two girls. Until they were reading well, we didn't do anything except reading and handwriting. I'm doing the same with my younger two. My plan was to have them start all the other language arts subjects after the reading was going well. This has been hit or miss and is really not going well. My oldest will be in 7th grade next year and I really need to get this figured out now.

 

There are just so many things that fit under "language arts". I don't know where to start or how often to do each thing or how long it should all take each day. We did LLATL for about a year and a half but I wasn't sure it was covering everything adequately so I decided to drop it and do my own thing. I've failed miserably with that plan. I got TWSS to teach writing we like it but I don't think we're doing it often enough. I'm considering going back to a curriculum like LLATL or ELTL but I thought I'd get an idea of what language arts looks like in other families to help me figure out what is both reasonable and would fit our family.

 

My list of what I want to cover is:

 

Writing/composition

Spelling

Grammar

Copywork

Dictation

Literature

Mechanics

 

Is this all? Am I missing something? Do you cover these things every year? How often do you do them and how long does it take? I'm not necessarily looking for specific curricula at this point. I'm mostly trying to figure out what a good language arts program includes. I know we're going to be pretty far behind at this point. How would you handle that? Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Yes, so many things fit under "language arts" that I don't use the term "language arts." :D

 

Penmanship is also in the category.

 

Copywork and dicatation are technically not "language arts." They are a method of improving a child's English skills.

 

"Mechanics" usually falls under grammar.

 

You're going to work on composition pretty much forever. It will look different from year to year.

 

As a formal study, spelling usually gives way to vocabulary when the dc are 11 or12ish. Some people (like me) don't start a formal spelling until the dc are 8 or 9; some do it as young as 6.

 

You're going to work on mechanics pretty much forever, even though one hopes that after the children are, oh, 12 or 13 there will be less need to actually *study* it, but instead you'll just correct mistakes when they write (in all subjects, BTW). You can begin teaching simple punctuation as soon as the dc begin writing sentences, as well as simple capitalization (ditto writing).

 

Some people do a formal study of grammar every.single.year. Some don't (like me).

 

In the early years, "reading" indicates not actual phonics, but learning things such recalling facts, following directions, drawing conclusions, summarizing, and so on. When the dc are 12 or 13ish, then you move to literature, where you help them read different genres and understand things like alliteration, allusion, and personification, and antagonists, protagonists, and conflict.

 

[KathyBC]

I got TWSS to teach writing we like it but I don't think we're doing it often enough

 

My list of what I want to cover is:

 

Writing/composition

Spelling

Grammar

Copywork

Dictation

Literature

Mechanics

 

 

How often are you doing TWSS? If you can get through a lesson a week, even every two weeks, you are doing writing/composition. In some of my kids' younger years, copywork and dictation were our writing four days a week, 2 days  of each. If you look at something like WWE or Bravewriter you can get an idea of how to lay this out.

 

Copywork and dictation can also be a great way to cover spelling, grammar and mechanics. Do they need work in these areas? That will determine how much time is spent. We spent approx. 15-20 min./day every day on spelling and about the same on grammar. 

 

Literature: just reading aloud and assigned reading can be great exposure. At some point a deliberate introduction of terms and ideas is a good idea. A couple of years we took two-weeks or so off from our regular spelling/grammar routine to spend that time on a literature unit. In grade 9, my oldest did a literary analysis dvd.

 

Public speaking we covered a couple times a year with our homeschool group.

[KathyBC]

 

 

As a formal study, spelling usually gives way to vocabulary when the dc are 11 or 12ish. Some people (like me) don't start a formal spelling until the dc are 8 or 9; some do it as young as 6.

 

You're going to work on mechanics pretty much forever, even though one hopes that after the children are, oh, 12 or 13 there will be less need to actually *study* it, but instead you'll just correct mistakes when they write (in all subjects, BTW). You can begin teaching simple punctuation as soon as the dc begin writing sentences, as well as simple capitalization (ditto writing).

 

Some people do a formal study of grammar every.single.year. Some don't (like me).

 

In the early years, "reading" indicates not actual phonics, but learning things such recalling facts, following directions, drawing conclusions, summarizing, and so on. When the dc are 12 or 13ish, then you move to literature, where you help them read different genres and understand things like alliteration, allusion, and personification, and antagonists, protagonists, and conflict.

 

:iagree:

[MerryAtHope]

I like to start with reading and handwriting, then add on spelling, and then finally a mix of grammar and composition. Here's an article on planning language arts. I think the big part of consistency is just to decide what your goals are for that year (or that term), and then decide how much time you are willing to devote to language arts. Then list out your priorities and how much time you want to spend on each.

 

In the early years for us, it might look like 20 minutes for reading instruction, 10 minutes for handwriting, and then 15-20 minutes for spelling when they were ready. Later we added on 20-30 minutes of composition or grammar.

 

Reading instruction becomes literature when they are ready.

I have included copywork/dictation as part of spelling, grammar/mechanics, composition, or literary elements, depending on what I was teaching through them. 

Grammar/mechanics and composition are subjects that I tended to alternate by either term, semester, or year.

 

So, we started with 30 minutes for language arts in the K-1st grade years, and gradually added on until eventually "language arts" would take about 90 minutes; 30 minutes for reading, 20 for spelling, 30 for composition or grammar, and usually some discussion time. 

 

I don't count read-aloud time in there, but we almost always had a read-aloud going each night.

 

HTH as you consider how to proceed! 

 

 

[Another Lynn]

If you have the Well Trained Mind, or borrow it from the library, it has suggested pacing for each part.  Or better yet, listen to SWB's MP3s on writing - I believe she spells it out there too (spelling, x times per week, grammar x times per week, etc.)  I agree with Ellie and others who have said mechanics is just part of grammar.  Copywork and dictation are tools that can be used to improve spelling and composition.  There are varying ideas about how much of either one depending on your overall approach for spelling and composition. 

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

Are copywork and penmanship not the same thing? What's the difference? How much do your children copy in upper elementary grades?

 

I forgot about public speaking. We were working on that at the beginning of the year using the things they wrote with TWSS. I'm not sure why we stopped.

 

We are doing TWSS about 3 days a week. I actually haven't added it back in yet after the Christmas break but we're going to get back to it next week. I don't have the SWI. I've just been pulling my own things from history or our read aloud.

 

With 7th grade looming I really need to get on the ball with this. I think my snowed in weekend will be spent planning and getting stuff ready for next week.

[heartlikealion]

Are copywork and penmanship not the same thing? What's the difference? How much do your children copy in upper elementary grades?

 

I forgot about public speaking. We were working on that at the beginning of the year using the things they wrote with TWSS. I'm not sure why we stopped.

 

We are doing TWSS about 3 days a week. I actually haven't added it back in yet after the Christmas break but we're going to get back to it next week. I don't have the SWI. I've just been pulling my own things from history or our read aloud.

 

With 7th grade looming I really need to get on the ball with this. I think my snowed in weekend will be spent planning and getting stuff ready for next week.

 

Well, you can copy something and say it was both. But penmanship is not necessarily copywork. At least, here in my home. I might say to ds, "I need you to write the whole alphabet in lower and upper case." But then we'll pull out our history lesson and there is an actual copywork assignment where they have a sentence about the current topic and he'll have to copy that sentence onto a sheet of paper. I don't know if Handwriting Without Tears type books are considered copywork. I guess if the child is copying a phrase or word?

[Ellie]

Are copywork and penmanship not the same thing? What's the difference?

 

 

Well, no. It can be one of the tools for improving your child's penmanship by having him practice, but that's not the only reason you have him do copywork.

 

Here's the definition of penmanship.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Ellie

[Freedom]

I am feeling really overwhelmed by language arts with my older two girls.

 

Is this all? Am I missing something? Do you cover these things every year? How often do you do them and how long does it take? I'm not necessarily looking for specific curricula at this point. I'm mostly trying to figure out what a good language arts program includes. I know we're going to be pretty far behind at this point. How would you handle that? Any help would be much appreciated.

 

When I am overwhelmed, I step back and plan out step by step how I can piece it all back together - you can do that too! :001_rolleyes:

 

What we cover now is:

writing (IEW PAL writing - starting composition), 15 min/4 days per week

spelling (AAS2), 10-15 min/4 days per week

penmanship/copywork (MP books and my own using Startwrite), 10 min/5 days per week

public speaking/memorization (IEW poetry memorization with additional scripture passages - DS gives a recital to hubby and I plus a set of grandparents after learning 10 poems and 10 or so verses), 15 - 20 min/5 days per week

cursive penmanship (NAC + my own Startwrite created pages) 10 min/5 days per week

 

For narration I use our history or science readings.

 

When I add grammar, I am going to use Fix-It (IEW).  For spelling after we complete AAS3, we will move to Phonetic Zoo.

 

My 2 cents: For a rising 7th grader, you could start with PZ (take the placement test) and Fix-It Grammar.  Keep on using TWSS and you could buy SWI-B so Andrew can teach for you.  You don't necessarily need copywork if you have composition and it will help with feeling overwhelmed.  Tie in public speaking with memorization you create based on history (famous speeches), Bible verses if you that is important, or poetry (which develops complex language patterns) of your choice. HTH even a little. :)

 

[kateingr]

I like to start with reading and handwriting, then add on spelling, and then finally a mix of grammar and composition. Here's an article on planning language arts. I think the big part of consistency is just to decide what your goals are for that year (or that term), and then decide how much time you are willing to devote to language arts. Then list out your priorities and how much time you want to spend on each.

 

 

Thanks for this reminder that we don't have to cover every single language arts topic every single year, Merry! Like the OP, I'm questioning my language arts choices with my third grader right now, and this is exactly what I needed to hear. 

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

Thank you all so much! As I've read and thought about all the replies, I've started to realize that part of the problem was that I was over-complicating things and trying to do EVERYTHING all the time. Seems to my theme for the year :-P I've simplified everything else and it's going great. We're enjoying school much more than we were and getting so much more done. Time to do that with language arts too. I think I'm going to start next week with writing (IEW), spelling, and copywork and see how that works before I add anything else. I just need to remember to keep it simple! My oldest has 6 years left of school - we don't have to cover everything this year.