Struggling with teaching Pre-Algebra right now :(

[tammyw]

I'm feeling so defeated (and it doesn't help that I am sick with a cold and haven't had a lot of sleep the last couple days). We are on the section of Profit and Commission. Well I just can't seem to wrap my head around it AT ALL. I feel like a total failure and having a huge panic attack right now :( And to top it all off, she got MANY errors in her homework and for some reason, I cannot seem to think through ANY of the problems/answers. I'm freaking out a bit.

 

This on top of dealing with her educational specialist telling us last month that if she wants to take the high school math classes, she needs to get on board with common core (we are doing Dolciani at home but she is going to a charter school part-time).

 

Help me decide what to do! She wants to continue doing this path next year as well (grade 8) but wants to go to the high school in grade 9. I know that I cannot continue to teach her math next year -- it's just too hard for me at this point. What are my options? Are there any common core aligned online classes that would transition easily enough for her?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

ETa: can anyone find online links to supplement this subject? Normally I turn to Khan but couldn't even find anything there!

Edited January 21, 2016 by tammyw

[ErinE]

Texas Tech? It has an accredited online school. In fact, my DS had to take a Texas Tech test in order to place out of his PS pre-algebra class.

[tammyw]

I can only answer to the profit and commission part- my daughter had a major mind block over this exact thing along with a few others. I ordered some of the CLE math units ranging from 600-800 series and we stopped our regular program for two weeks and "plugged holes" with CLE. Worked like a charm. I even learned a couple of tricks myself. After that we went back to her normal program. The CLE books are so cheap too- it wasn't like investing in a whole other program.

Thank you. What is CLE? Do you have a link?

[wapiti]

My two cents:  this is one lesson in problem solving with percents.  I'd just come back to it later, after some time passes.  If there aren't any other significant issues with understanding in percents, I wouldn't even bother to supplement.

 

As for Common Core, it depends.  I would check on the sequence at the prospective high school.  If it is the traditional sequence (alg 1, geometry, alg 2), and your plan is to teach algebra 1 at home in 8th, then I might supplement a few extra topics while you prepare for the high school's placement test.  (Note, find out when the test would take place, spring of 8th grade or in August of 9th.)  If the sequence is integrated, I'd want to find out more info.  Either way, it might be helpful to find out what texts the high school and feeder middle school use.

[Lori D.]

I had the same idea as texasmama33, but was going to suggest the Keys to… math workbooks: Keys to Percents. ;) And, if needed, Keys to Decimals, and Keys to Fractions, since Fractions, Decimals, and Percents all related.

 

(Fractions are division problems, and if you do the division you end up with a decimal as your answer -- 1/4 means 1 divided by 4, which equals = .25)

 

(Decimals are fractions with a 10, 100, 1000, etc. as the denominator -- .23 = 23/100, or 1.327 = 1 and 327/1000)

 

(Percent actually means "how many out of every hundred", so it's special way of writing a decimal with digits to the hundredth place -- 79% = .79, or a fraction with 100 as the denominator -- 79% = 79 out of every 100, or 79/100)

 

(extra FYI: Ratios are a way of comparing quantities, and can also be expressed as fractions or decimals)

[tammyw]

This charter uses the integrated approach. I'm wondering about maybe picking an online class since she doesn't love the curriculum they use in 7th and 8th grade. Any thoughts?

 

A friend in our homeschool PE class is a professor at a local college. His suggestion, and what his daughter is doing, is to not worry about common core and just take all her math there, but a big issue with that is that's one extra chunk of time she would be away from home each week.

 

My two cents: this is one lesson in problem solving with percents. I'd just come back to it later, after some time passes. If there aren't any other significant issues with understanding in percents, I wouldn't even bother to supplement.

 

As for Common Core, it depends. I would check on the sequence at the prospective high school. If it is the traditional sequence (alg 1, geometry, alg 2), and your plan is to teach algebra 1 at home in 8th, then I might supplement a few extra topics while you prepare for the high school's placement test. (Note, find out when the test would take place, spring of 8th grade or in August of 9th.) If the sequence is integrated, I'd want to find out more info. Either way, it might be helpful to find out what texts the high school and feeder middle school use.

[Carol in Cal.]

In general, with these kinds of problems I think of a model to use.

 

Then I compare what I did with the model.

 

So for instance, say the issue is profits.  Something sells for $100.  The cost is $75.  If so then the profit is 100-75 or $25.  Another way to express this is that the profit is 25/100 or 25% of the sale price.  Yet another way to express the same thing is that the profit is 25/75 or 33.3% of the cost.  

 

So now I have a model to apply to any problem about profits, costs, and price that I come up with. 

 

The other thing I do is a sanity check.  Cost plus profit equals sales price, ALWAYS.  So I double check my answers to make sure that they end up there.

 

Hope that helps; if not please give me a further question and I'll take a shot.

[wapiti]

This charter uses the integrated approach. I'm wondering about maybe picking an online class since she doesn't love the curriculum they use in 7th and 8th grade. Any thoughts?

 

A friend in our homeschool PE class is a professor at a local college. His suggestion, and what his daughter is doing, is to not worry about common core and just take all her math there, but a big issue with that is that's one extra chunk of time she would be away from home each week.

 

I don't know much about integrated Common Core texts, though here and there I've read mention of negative experiences with the implementation of the integrated courses.  Accordingly I'd probably try to avoid the integrated Common Core courses if possible.

 

For the few schools I know of that use Common Core texts for the traditional sequence, the courses follow the topic coverage.  The teachers use some of the exercises but do not rely on the instruction much due to general text quality issues such as visual format, wording and such.

[tammyw]

The good news is that I probably am not as stupid as I thought I was today. It turns out I had the onset of a migraine (very rare for me) and the fact that it felt like my brain wasn't functioning was because my brain probably wasn't properly functioning. Shortly after posting, I went into a tailspin and it was horrible. Had some medicine and a nap and food and water and am feeling much better. Was able to sit with my daughter and husband go through it again, and it makes so much more sense now. We were able to work through a bunch of problems successfully and will continue tomorrow with the rest. So I feel a bit relieved about that.

 

I also have the Keys to Percents that I bought a long time ago. I figure we will work through those as well, and maybe look at the others.

 

The bigger concern really is what to do for grade 8 so that she will be able to do grade 9 at this charter high school. I am honestly very concerned about this decision :(

 

Thanks for the support.

[Arcadia]

:grouphug:

You still have two years more assuming the school does placement tests for high school in spring of 8th grade.

Here the intergrated math common core textbook is the Pearson one. Find out the scope and sequence for 8th and 9th. Make sure you cover whatever is in the 8th grade text and prep a little for the 9th grade text. Sometimes a school might give both end of course tests just to see how well the student can do on the higher level one.

 

The Keys to series can be done quite independently by the child. Hope your migraine gets better soon.

[tammyw]

Here is a problem I am struggling to figure out a bit. My husband figured it out with his own formula, but I'm not certain this is the best way to do it? Would love suggestions.

 

Sole Mate Shoes has expenses of $9592 per month. What must the store's total income be if it is to make a 12% profit.

 

He did this formula:

 

$9592 = (x) .88

x= 9592/.88

x=$10,900

 

That is the right answer. But is this the best way to figure it out? It doesn't seem quite logical to me at this very moment. Thoughts?

 

And are there any online videos that might help cement this particular concept? Don't know why we're struggling so much with this one!

Edited January 22, 2016 by tammyw

[Lanny]

Texas Tech? It has an accredited online school. In fact, my DS had to take a Texas Tech test in order to place out of his PS pre-algebra class.

 

My DD took the TTUISD  8th grade Math course, which is "Pre Algebra", during the previous school year. It is a comprehensive course, as are all of their courses. Whether or not it is "Common Core", which the OP mentioned, I don't know.  I doubt that it is officially "Common Core", because Texas is not a Common Core state.   That course covers a lot of material, which IMO is the goal of any solid "Pre Algebra" course.  The OP can find information on the TTUISD web site, about that Middle School course and/or call the TTUISD toll free phone number, for information. GL

 

BTW: TTUISD "Online" courses are Asynchronous. 

[Carol in Cal.]

 

 

Sole Mate Shoes has expenses of $9592 per month. What must the store's total income be if it is to make a 12% profit.

 

He did this formula:

 

$9592 = (x) .88

x= 9592/.88

x=$10,900

 

 

First of all, remember that 'percent of' is always 'percent times' with percent expressed as a decimal in the second case.  Example:  40% of 100 can be written as 0.4 X 100.

 

So.  Profit is 12% of the TOTAL REVENUE.  Profit plus expenses equals the TOTAL REVENUE.  (see my example earlier in the thread.)

 

So let TOTAL REVENUE = A

Let Profit = B

 

A = $9592 + B

 

Then, B = .12 X A

 

Now you have two equations in two unknowns and it's easy to solve.

 

 

 

Your husband's way is correct, but if the problem were more complex it would be harder to scale, so it's good to think through how to express everything you know as equations with these easy problems, so that you can apply that skill to harder ones, say with different profit margins for each product line or something.

[LinaJ]

Oh girl, so sorry! Sometimes I feel like that too. That my mind is getting old and cannot function effectively. And also some of those math problems are so darn twisted, almost like the creators are trying to be cooler/smarter than the next guy.... Hopefully this chapter will be over soon :)

[Ms Brooks]

I'm feeling so defeated (and it doesn't help that I am sick with a cold and haven't had a lot of sleep the last couple days). We are on the section of Profit and Commission. Well I just can't seem to wrap my head around it AT ALL. I feel like a total failure and having a huge panic attack right now :( And to top it all off, she got MANY errors in her homework and for some reason, I cannot seem to think through ANY of the problems/answers. I'm freaking out a bit.

 

This on top of dealing with her educational specialist telling us last month that if she wants to take the high school math classes, she needs to get on board with common core (we are doing Dolciani at home but she is going to a charter school part-time).

 

Help me decide what to do! She wants to continue doing this path next year as well (grade 8) but wants to go to the high school in grade 9. I know that I cannot continue to teach her math next year -- it's just too hard for me at this point. What are my options? Are there any common core aligned online classes that would transition easily enough for her?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

ETa: can anyone find online links to supplement this subject? Normally I turn to Khan but couldn't even find anything there!

 

You are not alone! While I am not working through Profit and Commission with my DD, I do feel frustrated with our lack of progress in Pre-Algebra. 

 

We are not using Dolciani, it was a bomb in the past with my older kids, so we are using Singapore Dimensions Math. I am sure if I were more of a math person Singapore would be a breeze, but I am not a math person, and the jumps in thinking confound me. Singapore is CC aligned. I use the Pre-Algebra videos from Art of Problem Solving as well as the videos from Prentice Hall Algebra Readiness. Sometimes I think how a text explains concepts and works problems does not mesh with my DD's learning style. To address, this I bought Prentice Hall Algebra Readiness to supplement how Singapore Dimensions Math explanes a math concept. Prentice Hall is a busy textbook, and it is not CC aligned.

 

We will slog through Singapore Dimensions Math using Prentice Hall as support for the remainder of 7th grade. For 8th grade I am considering either Chalkdust Algebra 1 or Foerster Algebra 1 with the Home Study Companion by Chandler-read review here.  I have used Chalkdust Algebra 1 before and liked it, but I sold it thinking I would not use it again. Things change, and now I am strongly reconsidering it because of the video instruction. Neither of these options are CC aligned. I don't care.

 

About Common Core: My opinion about Common Core is that the ideas behind the Common Core goals make sense, common sense, but how textbook companies have chosen to express these goals does not work. CC textbooks lead to more confusion. The Common Core only matters if your child attend a public high school, and then those scores only reflect on the school not the student--yet. It may be in the future those CC test scores will matter more to the student and determine college entrance eligibility. While I support the idea of Common Core, I've given up on trying to do the Common Core at home using CC aligned textbooks, etc.  

[tammyw]

First of all, remember that 'percent of' is always 'percent times' with percent expressed as a decimal in the second case. Example: 40% of 100 can be written as 0.4 X 100.

 

So. Profit is 12% of the TOTAL REVENUE. Profit plus expenses equals the TOTAL REVENUE. (see my example earlier in the thread.)

 

So let TOTAL REVENUE = A

Let Profit = B

 

A = $9592 + B

 

Then, B = .12 X A

 

Now you have two equations in two unknowns and it's easy to solve.

 

 

 

Your husband's way is correct, but if the problem were more complex it would be harder to scale, so it's good to think through how to express everything you know as equations with these easy problems, so that you can apply that skill to harder ones, say with different profit margins for each product line or something.

So I must be the dumbest person alive because your explanation still doesn't make sense to me :(

[Carol in Cal.]

So I must be the dumbest person alive because your explanation still doesn't make sense to me :(

Ack, I am sorry.

Can you be more specific?  Start at the beginning and ask the first question that comes to mind?

[Arcadia]

 

There is two profit percentage though. One is profit as a percentage of total revenue, and the other is profit as a percentage of expenses.

 

Example problem in link explaining both cases

http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.01/allison2.html

 

I think your question is using 12% as profit as a percentage of total income.

 

So

Total Expenses + Total Profit = Total Income

Total Profit = 0.12 Total Income

 

Total Expenses = Total Income - Total Profit

Total Expenses = Total Income - 0.12 Total Income

Total Expenses = (1 - 0.12) Total Income

Total Expenses = 0.88 Total Income

$9592 = 0.88 Total Income

Total Income = $9592/(0.88)

[MarkT]

 

Help me decide what to do! She wants to continue doing this path next year as well (grade 8) but wants to go to the high school in grade 9. I know that I cannot continue to teach her math next year -- it's just too hard for me at this point. What are my options? Are there any common core aligned online classes that would transition easily enough for her?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Eureka is fully Common Core -  all free downloads (including teacher items) if you register.

 

look at the 7th and 8th grade modules for PreAlgebra.

 

http://greatminds.net/maps/math/module-pdfs