Please tell me this is just a 12 year old boy phase

[Mom2pandc]

My ds12 is gifted. He was tested and all. He's the one track mind kind of gifted though. *sigh*. He's done Singapore math for the last couple years and after 5B I floundered on what to use. We started with MM 6 but it was mostly review. So I started him in Saxon 1/2. Mainly because it looked like a solid review and built some on things I know he already knows!

He's currently on lesson 31 and I'm over here just beating my head against the wall. He knows the material but spaces out and takes FOR-EV-ER. I've only been having him do about every other problem because otherwise it will take him 2 hours instead of 1. Ive encouraged him to take breaks, walked him through it, etc. Then he will miss 5-7 out of 15. When I ask him to tell me how he did it, he usually says, oops, I multiplied that too many times, or whatever. And he finds his own mistake. It's driving me batty. If I am there walking through each one with him he does fine. He knows this stuff! But when the rubber meets the road and it's time to execute, he gets a blank look and is probably writing computer code in his mind or dreaming about his bee hives that he's adding next spring.

DH wants to make him have homework (i.e. More problems to do in the evening) if he gets less than 80% correct. But DH usually works late and I quite frankly have other things to do!

I'd love advice but right now I'm not quite ready to change curriculum again as I think it's more DS12's brain and not the actual text.

[Tsuga]

I think that a lot of that is a 12-year-old boy thing. I have heard my stepson go through the exact same thing with his dad.

 

"Oh... I don't know what I did there... maybe multiplied? Oh yeah."

 

If they could really say what was going on, they would probably say,

 

"Sorry, my brain is starting a huge neural network reorganization right now, and also, I am devoting something like 5% of my energy to growing, and also, I am having surges of feelings of an intensity that previously did not exist in my world."

[Jean in Newcastle]

It's a 12 year old boy thing.  If he knows the material, I would not sweat it and I would not punish for it with more work.  Isn't the point knowing the material? 

[mc26]

I have a gifted and spacey 13 year old (October) boy just finishing up Saxon 1/2.  What works for us is to do math first thing in the morning with me sitting with him. I sit with the solutions manual, he tells me his answer after every problem.  He needs the immediate feedback, and can usually self correct.  It is more work for me but so much less frustrating in the long run.  We get it done this way in 45-60 minutes.  

 

This week he has started shouting out the answers game show-style, and decided that he should get a few lifelines.  2 "skip the problems" and 1 "mom, tell me how to do this" (usually reserved for those pesky lateral surface area geometry problems).  I thought that was pretty amusing.  

[Hunter]

Try racing him problem by problem for the correct answer. Winner gets a small piece of candy like a chocolate chip or a skittle.

 

This trains them to be fast and accurate; a needed skill for getting through Saxon.

[Paige]

My 14yr old is starting to come out of it. I never thought I would love having a teenage so much, but I think it's just that the preteens are so much harder than people had told me! I mean, I didn't expect the teen years to be awful, but 14 has been really great. 

[justme824]

Well since my almost 12-year-old boy just started doing this in the last couple months I'm going with 12-year-old boy thing too! He knows his stuff and can find his errors.

[housemouse]

^{Its a 12 yo boy thing. I had the same thing with mine last year and it is still ongoing this year at 13. As long as he knows his stuff, don't worry.}

[SebastianCat]

It's a 12 year old boy thing. Lots of exercise and extra food helps immensely here, as does tackling the hardest subjects early in the day.

[wapiti]

My 12 year olds make silly mistakes often enough and sometimes temporarily forget things I know that they know, things that make me slap my forehead.

 

That said, I might consider the possibility that he is bored:  (1) perhaps he does not need the amount of review the program requires (he was successful with Singapore?) and (2) the program may not be sufficiently interesting for him in any event, especially considering that he's gifted.  For some people, it's a great fit, while others might rather poke their eyes out with a sharp stick than use Saxon.

Edited January 22, 2016 by wapiti

[Mom2pandc]

I'm relieved to see I'm not alone. :). I will be trying some of the ideas here to cope. Lol.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Run him. Find a vigorous exercise that he likes and run him. My Ds is 11 and we have just begun with small weights and calisthenics. I am going to add in the bike trainer around March.

[kiwik]

Saxon is usually not the first choice for gifted kids - unless he is not gifted in maths?

[MEmama]

Oh my goodness, yes. Definitely a 12 yo boy thing.

 

Still, it's reassuring to hear that my instincts are right. ;)

 

I agree with vigorous exercise and lots of food. Mine can't get enough of either.

[Tress]

Is this strictly a boy thing or do girls have this too?

 

Because it would perfectly explain some really weird things I have been seeing this week with math with my dd12. It's like everyting fell out of her head, something I have never seen before with her. (Her younger sisters have that sometimes after breaks, but not my oldest.)

[Hunter]

I used Saxon with a very gifted child. I would use it again in the same situation. That is a topic for another thread, though, and I'll bet there are threads on it.

 

Just do not automatically drop Saxon because a kid is gifted or even bored. Some of that is a PARENTING decision even more than an academic one.

 

Most 12 years olds are not organized and efficient and accurate and all sort of the things we expect from WORKERS unless they have been trained to WORK and most American 12 years old have not.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Girls are affected too. 

[SanDiegoMom]

My math-gifted very spacey almost 10 yo boy does the worst when the problems are too easy. He takes the longest and sometimes literally cannot think.  He whizzes through the challenging problems.  We use Aops to alleviate the repetition -- there's only 4-6 problems and usually 5-7 exercises per section.  He loves it. 

[Tress]

Girls are affected too.

Thanks, Jean!

 

I had heard parents talking about this type of behaviour by teens on this forum, but I have to admit I always assumed it was a bit of an American thing. Noone around here ever mentions it, tracking starts in 7th grade and the amount of work students have to do increases a lot. This whole 'teen growth spurt, therefor their brains don't function' thing is completely unheard of.

 

Well, it obviously doesn't matter if *I* don't believe in it :lol:, because dd12's brain definitely stopped functioning :D.

 

So exercise and food are the solution? Anything else?

[Jean in Newcastle]

One thing to keep in mind.  Executive function issues tend to be most noticeable in tweens and teens because that is when we start to hand over more of the reins for organizing, scheduling, and doing independent work.  So what might have just been put down to a distractible personality in younger ages, might actually be ADD.  (Obviously not always.)  I found that teaching my kids the types of skills in "Smart but Scattered" and other EF books, helped. 

 

The food, exercise, nap thing is a way to handle some of the hormonal surges without getting into a battle all the time.  And allowing them a way to reset themselves.  And in the case of exercise, it releases hormones of it's own that can balance out some of the other hormones they are dealing with.

 

I found that with my teens, that coming alongside them, acknowledging the impact that hormones etc. can have and sharing how I handle frustration, distraction etc. has helped.  I also found that "cutting to the chase" - ie. being esp. wary of busy work and allowing them to show mastery of things in different ways, helped.  In my opinion, this is partly why I'm homeschooling, so I do have a bias in that regard. 

 

Now, obviously all tween/teens are different physically as well as personality wise.  My Aspie had some extra challenges in the tween/early teen age. 

[SebastianCat]

Run him. Find a vigorous exercise that he likes and run him. My Ds is 11 and we have just begun with small weights and calisthenics. I am going to add in the bike trainer around March.

 

This has been what has helped my DS the most.   The brain fog started around 11, and I used to tell him, "Go outside and run.   Run 10 laps around the house, or run to the end of the street and back."   He has gradually increased his distance, and now at 13 he runs the equivalent of a 5K at least 3 days per week, usually 4. 

 

My DD is 11 and the effect of hormones tend to be more emotional swings and less brain fog, so far.   She doesn't like to run as much as DS, but I do make her get outside and exercise almost every day.   She will ride her bike, skate, or go on a brisk walk with the dog.   Sunshine seems to have more of a beneficial effect on her than just exercise.    We are fortunate to live in Florida, where even if it's chilly (which is nothing by other regions' standards of cold), it's sunny most days.

[Milknhoney]

Wow, so glad I saw this thread. We just started my ds11 on DM 7A this week and so far he has taken an ETERNITY to do each lesson. The material is not too hard for him. He assures me he understands it perfectly; he even enjoys it. He insists he is not daydreaming. Finally today I sat down with his homework and studied his problems to see where he might be spinning his wheels and what I think I've figured out is that he still doesn't know his math facts well enough to come to solutions quickly. After all the drilling, the flashcards, the time tests, the tears, the anguish... when I thought he had finally mastered them... he KNOWS them, it just takes him longer than instantly to pull the answer out of his head (like he had actually written out 54/6 as a "long division" problem in the margin...).

 

It's a relief to know he's just keeping up with his peer group! The exercise thing makes a lot of sense. He is very sedentary and is in desperate need of more exercise. I'll need to put effort into seeing that he does more of it.

[nerdybird]

It's a puberty thing. My oldest started going through the space cadet thing at 11, right before puberty REALLY started.

 

Now he's in the full swing and we've had some adjustment issues. He doesn't space with math, but reading, writing, Rosetta Stone, copywork, Bible...

 

What worked for mine was to structure his workflow so that he didn't have to read as much. Just listen. More reading aloud, more audiobooks, more video lessons. I also let him do "Lego Lessons" with DS2 and DS3 a few afternoons a week. He teaches them how to build things he has already built, older kits, that sort of thing. They spend time together, he gets to focus on something he loves, it's a good reward for those longer days when things haven't gone so smoothly. I also let him spend time playing guitar in the basement when he needs to "chill out". I set a timer and 15-20 minutes of guitar time can really work wonders for him in terms of stopping the puberty space out blues, lol.

 

I'm also a big fan of backyard recess for my kiddos. Just because DS1 is 12 doesn't mean that he doesn't need to run around and doesn't enjoy bouncing tennis balls off of the house, climbing trees or riding his bike around the neighborhood with no particular goal in mind. Sometimes I think he needs that downtime more than the others.

 

He is also in TKD and has been since age 6. He's not competitive, but I think that the discipline and the physicality of TKD has really helped him to manage his energy level over the years. 

Edited February 2, 2016 by nerdybird

[HeWillSoar]

Try racing him problem by problem for the correct answer. Winner gets a small piece of candy like a chocolate chip or a skittle.

 

This trains them to be fast and accurate; a needed skill for getting through Saxon.

 

Love this!  I bet this would motivate my 12 yo. 

[mom2scouts]

Yes, I think it's a 12 year old boy thing. In my case, it's a 13 year old boy thing. My son is just like this and can spend HOURS doing a few math problems and making a bunch of careless mistakes.

[kroe1]

Why are you making him spend an hour on something he already knows?

[Reefgazer]

Oh, I've got one like this (13 year old girl in Algebra I), so I don't have any assistance, just commiserating.  I can tell you from experience that extra homework won't solve a carelessness issue, though. 

 

I don't think 2 hours of math a day is too much for a high school level class.  Above that and it becomes questionable, though.

My ds12 is gifted. He was tested and all. He's the one track mind kind of gifted though. *sigh*. He's done Singapore math for the last couple years and after 5B I floundered on what to use. We started with MM 6 but it was mostly review. So I started him in Saxon 1/2. Mainly because it looked like a solid review and built some on things I know he already knows!
He's currently on lesson 31 and I'm over here just beating my head against the wall. He knows the material but spaces out and takes FOR-EV-ER. I've only been having him do about every other problem because otherwise it will take him 2 hours instead of 1. Ive encouraged him to take breaks, walked him through it, etc. Then he will miss 5-7 out of 15. When I ask him to tell me how he did it, he usually says, oops, I multiplied that too many times, or whatever. And he finds his own mistake. It's driving me batty. If I am there walking through each one with him he does fine. He knows this stuff! But when the rubber meets the road and it's time to execute, he gets a blank look and is probably writing computer code in his mind or dreaming about his bee hives that he's adding next spring.
DH wants to make him have homework (i.e. More problems to do in the evening) if he gets less than 80% correct. But DH usually works late and I quite frankly have other things to do!
I'd love advice but right now I'm not quite ready to change curriculum again as I think it's more DS12's brain and not the actual text.

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by reefgazer

[Mom2pandc]

Why are you making him spend an hour on something he already knows?

I'm not making him spend an hour on it. I give him 8-10 problems out of the problem set, some new stuff, some review of things he's missed before. And it takes him over an hour most days. When I look at him he's staring into space. When he misses half the problems after taking that long I question if he really does know it. When I review it with him he gives me a dazed look and says oh no the answer is ______.

My tendency is to believe he doesn't know something when he's getting 50% of them wrong and it's taking a prolonged period of time. But when he can find his errors when I point the problem out, I am confused.

If he truly knows it, it should take him 15 - 20 minutes. Hence why I'm questioning if it's a just a stage he's going through.

[wapiti]

Consider taking a break from Saxon for a few days.  Put him on Alcumus (with Focus Area set to prealgebra) and see what he thinks.