Bulky winter coats and child car seats

[EmseB]

To nitpick here, diapers are not all that bulky these days.  Not like they used to be.

 

So glad I'm well past this stage though.  Talk about challenging!

 

Well, depends on if one is cloth diapering or not, but I agree that fluffy compression is not usually a problem with today's diapers like it would be a coat.

[SKL]

There aren't degrees of safety when using the seat...it isn't like, well, we buckled them improperly so at least they will get injured 50% less than if we didn't use the seat at all.

 

Actually that's not true.  There are degrees of safety.  A child in any restraint at all is way safer than a child in no restraint.  Degrees of safety increase with correct belt positioning etc.  Which means that the risk of injury goes from very small to very very tiny if you do enough things right.

 

Edited January 19, 2016 by SKL

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well, depends on if one is cloth diapering or not, but I agree that fluffy compression is not usually a problem with today's diapers like it would be a coat.

 

Ah true.  I guess cloth is bulkier?  Never used cloth. 

[EmseB]

Because it's legally required. Put a young kid in the car without a car seat, get pulled over by police and pay fines. Put a young kid in a car seat and buckle the kid improperly, nobody's going to notice. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Pay $30 once to have the legally mandated carseat and be all good.

 

But it just seems to me like...once you've paid the $30-$40 (at least), why not use it properly?  That's the part that makes me scratch my head.  Yes, I have to purchase this, so why not use it as it's supposed to be used?  Well, that, and regardless of $$ why wouldn't someone want to use the seat properly to increase their kids' chances of not being seriously injured or dead in a car crash?  I can't even see how it saves much time or effort to use the seat improperly vs. properly.  We're talking about buckling a kid in and, say, lifting the chest clip or tightening the straps down, so...less than 10 seconds of effort?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Actually that not true.  There are degrees of safety.  A child in any restraint at all is way safer than a child in no restraint.  Degrees of safety increase with correct belt positioning etc.  Which means that the risk of injury goes from very small to very very tiny if you do enough things right.

 

 

Oh definitely.  Not only did my mother bring me home in a car without a car seat, the car didn't have seat belts!  Most people would consider that insane these days. 

[HomeAgain]

Actually that not true.  There are degrees of safety.  A child in any restraint at all is way safer than a child in no restraint.  Degrees of safety increase with correct belt positioning etc.  Which means that the risk of injury goes from very small to very very tiny if you do enough things right.

 

 

Your first statement is...sorta true.  Can you provide statistics for the rest, or is this an opinion only?

[SparklyUnicorn]

Because it's legally required. Put a young kid in the car without a car seat, get pulled over by police and pay fines. Put a young kid in a car seat and buckle the kid improperly, nobody's going to notice. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Pay $30 once to have the legally mandated carseat and be all good.

 

The fine in a lot of places is a pretty big joke.  My aunt brought my baby out in a car without a car seat (I did not know and yes was pretty angry).  Had she been caught the fine is $10. 

[EmseB]

Actually that not true.  There are degrees of safety.  A child in any restraint at all is way safer than a child in no restraint.  Degrees of safety increase with correct belt positioning etc.  Which means that the risk of injury goes from very small to very very tiny if you do enough things right.

 

 

Can you point me to where you got this info?

 

I can't see how a kid flying forward from being improperly buckled would be any safer than a kid flying forward who isn't buckled?  I can't see how having my (for example) 2yo in a regular seat belt would be any safer in a crash than not having him buckled.  Either way, he'd go flying around the car because a seat belt isn't going to hold him in.  Same with an improperly used harness.  Either he is held into his seat, or he's not, right?

[SKL]

Diapers could get compressed in the seat, but typically the kid will be buckled in such a way that even if the diaper compresses it is physically impossible for a kid to slip out of the straps in a 5-point harness at the bottom (think of the crotch buckle in the middle with the two straps going down the side of the hips).  At the shoulder area, however, if the straps are not tightened properly or the chest clip is not positioned properly, and a coat compresses it is very easy (given crash forces) for a kid's shoulders to slip out of the straps.

 

No, it's like this.  Kids sit in their seat with their lap belt (whether part of a 5-point or otherwise), with their legs perpendicular to their backbone.  Unless the lap belt is extremely loose (or it opens), the legs' position is going to prevent any head-first ejection.  The possible exception would be when the legs are very short compared to what is between the lap belt and the back of the seat.

 

Ejection isn't the concern (re winter coats), except for young babies.

Edited January 18, 2016 by SKL

[SKL]

nm not relevant to the coat conversation

Edited January 18, 2016 by SKL

[SparklyUnicorn]

Why wouldn't a seat belt hold your 2yo in?

 

Having him in a seat belt would be a little less safe than a car seat, but it would at least prevent him from flying into the dashboard or out the window.

 

No way.  Now this I do not believe.  The seat belt doesn't even fit me properly as an adult (because I'm so short).  No way this could be good for a 2 year old.

[SKL]

nm not relevant to the coat conversation

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by SKL

[SparklyUnicorn]

Being crude here, but think about it.  A 2 year old has very short legs.  So imagine the belt is across the lap, if the kid snaps forward I think they could slip out of that.  Their legs wouldn't be long enough to cut down on that possibility (unlike me an adult who is much taller than a 2 year old).

 

 

[SKL]

Most people do not make 1 mistake.  It is usually a combination of 3 or more, all with their own unique contribution to a potential injury - we know this because of data gathered over the years through tests, medical science, and compiled data. According to statistics, 72% - 84% of those in a seat are not buckled properly.

 

I'm sure this is true, that most people do more than one thing wrong.  I assume this is because they don't know the correct way to do it or why, and I assume that's why they went to have a check done in the first place.  But I don't see what this has to do with whether or not a coat by itself is a serious risk.  Other than to say you can't prove it is, because there are so few incidences when a kid got hurt just from wearing a coat in the car.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Well and then not only that, Little kids can get wormy and squirmy and end up in all sorts of positions.  That would be less of a problem in a snug car seat than a regular seat belt.  A person driving can't reasonably keep tabs on that.

 

 

[luuknam]

But it just seems to me like...once you've paid the $30-$40 (at least), why not use it properly?  That's the part that makes me scratch my head.  Yes, I have to purchase this, so why not use it as it's supposed to be used?  Well, that, and regardless of $$ why wouldn't someone want to use the seat properly to increase their kids' chances of not being seriously injured or dead in a car crash?  I can't even see how it saves much time or effort to use the seat improperly vs. properly.  We're talking about buckling a kid in and, say, lifting the chest clip or tightening the straps down, so...less than 10 seconds of effort?

 

From what I remember, the straps weren't easy to adjust (though I think out of the 4 car seats we had at some point some were harder than others), and nobody wants to fight with a car seat with a squirming toddler and lots of snow being blown into the car with a -20F windchill, especially not every.single.time the car is used. That, combined with different perceptions of risk. I've been in a "5 people on a motorcycle" situation more than once (and no helmets either). I've ridden in the bed of a pickup truck multiple times, sometimes even on the highway for a fair distance. I'd probably do it again if I were in a situation where it made sense and wasn't illegal. So, car seat strap tightness with winter coats on is not high on my radar of "safety measures to worry about". Car seats are legally required, so kids are in a car seat. Done. I do wear a seat belt (for one, I feel naked without one), but those really just take 2 seconds at most (and are done once you're in the car with the door closed, not standing outside with snow and rain and cold air blowing on you and into the car to boot).

 

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to convince anyone to use car seats improperly. But if you want to know why people don't use them properly, that's why (or, at least one reason - there might be other reasons).

[Sarah CB]

All I can say is that I am glad I have teenagers.

 

Me, too.  My teenagers refuse to wear coats at all.  It doesn't matter how cold it is.  I guess I can console myself with how much safer they are in the car without coats.

[SKL]

nm not relevant to the coat conversation

Edited January 18, 2016 by SKL

[My4arrows]

Uh, after 1.5 hours in the grocery store (my kids love the play place at the grocery store, but anyway, it's just an example), the car is just as cold as leaving the house.

I start it while in the store still with an automatic car starter so for is its just a push of a button. It's not toasty warm when we are done but warmer still. Then we have blankets in the car and they will wear hats and gloves if needed.

[HomeAgain]

You think a 2yo in a seat belt will fly out of the car?  How?

 

 

Kyle David Miller. If you are going to look up anything, start with that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think realistically a 2yo's legs are usually long enough to prevent this.  I guess if it was a really fat 2yo it might not.  But normally the fastened seatbelt isn't going to come out nearly as far as the knees of a 2yo.

 

Do you know of any 2yos who flew out of a car despite wearing a seat belt?

 

I'm not recommending this btw, but there are statistics out there of tots in accidents wearing seat belts, and they do fare a lot better than kids with no restraint at all.  It's just a fact.

 

I don't really think their legs are long enough at all.  I do come from a long line of short people though.  LOL

 

I don't know the stats.  Certainly I'd prefer a seat belt verses nothing. 

[luuknam]

The fine in a lot of places is a pretty big joke.  My aunt brought my baby out in a car without a car seat (I did not know and yes was pretty angry).  Had she been caught the fine is $10. 

 

Okay, but the hassle of looking up the various fines in the various place I might drive and then do the math is much more work than just spending $30 on a car seat. Besides, I'm in a store that sells car seats on a fairly regular basis - not that big a deal to buy one while there. Going to traffic court to deal with a fine would be out of the way for me. Plus, I don't know how getting a ticket for that might affect my insurance. Really, easier to just buy the car seat.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Okay, but the hassle of looking up the various fines in the various place I might drive and then do the math is much more work than just spending $30 on a car seat. Besides, I'm in a store that sells car seats on a fairly regular basis - not that big a deal to buy one while there. Going to traffic court to deal with a fine would be out of the way for me. Plus, I don't know how getting a ticket for that might affect my insurance. Really, easier to just buy the car seat.

 

Where do they sell car seats for $30? 

 

I'm not disagreeing.  I wouldn't base my decision on the amount of the fine. 

 

In order to leave the hospital I had to show them the car seat.  If I didn't have one, they had some available to rent for cheap. 

[SKL]

Kyle David Miller. If you are going to look up anything, start with that.

 

His seatbelt came off during a roll-over, but he didn't fly out of the fastened seatbelt.

 

I would call that a freak accident though.  I have never heard of it happening before.  Also, he was in a booster seat.

 

Edited January 18, 2016 by SKL

[HomeAgain]

You asked, I provided.  You seem to be quite willing to talk a lot with no research whatsoever behind you to back you up, assuming that we won't question the absurd proposals you make.  I provided you a single step.

 

 

[luuknam]

I start it while in the store still with an automatic car starter so for is its just a push of a button. It's not toasty warm when we are done but warmer still. Then we have blankets in the car and they will wear hats and gloves if needed.

 

But think of the environment! Let's kill the planet just so we don't have to wear coats in the car. Save a toddler, kill thousands by climate change-induced famine etc (and no, I don't have the statistics on that, nobody does, since no-one knows how that will play out). (just to be clear, I'm partially cheek-in-tongue about this, since idling cars to warm them up are far from the only problems wrt the environment, and I'm sure my carbon footprint is too big)

 

Regardless, not everyone has an automatic car starter. Can you even get those installed for a reasonable price in a stick shift (I've seen people advertise them for $199, but I'm assuming that's for automatics)? I don't even have power windows.

[SKL]

Certainly I'd prefer a seat belt verses nothing. 

 

Right.  I had my kids in rear-facing 5pt harness seats at age 2, but if I had to transport them without the seats for some reason, putting a seatbelt on would still go a long way toward protecting them in a crash.

 

And putting them in a booster would be better still, and 5-point in a coat with the straps done right would be better still.  And all that without a coat would be better still.  But the difference between the last two would be negligible statistically.

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

But think of the environment! Let's kill the planet just so we don't have to wear coats in the car. Save a toddler, kill thousands by climate change-induced famine etc (and no, I don't have the statistics on that, nobody does, since no-one knows how that will play out). (just to be clear, I'm partially cheek-in-tongue about this, since idling cars to warm them up are far from the only problems wrt the environment, and I'm sure my carbon footprint is too big)

 

Regardless, not everyone has an automatic car starter. Can you even get those installed for a reasonable price in a stick shift (I've seen people advertise them for $199, but I'm assuming that's for automatics)? I don't even have power windows.

 

Not only that, at one point gas was something like $4.50 a gallon here (and yes I know compared with Europe that's a joke). 

 

When my DH sees people running their car he says, "Gas isn't expensive enough."

 

I'm not as hard core as him (I'm not German for one thing...LOL), but he has a point.  It really is a waste and not good for the environment.

 

Then again, I really don't know that I want to get into nit picking everyone to death here.  It's not helpful.  (Not directed at you luuk.) 

[Caroline]

Right. I had my kids in rear-facing 5pt harness seats at age 2, but if I had to transport them without the seats for some reason, putting a seatbelt on would still go a long way toward protecting them in a crash.

 

And putting them in a booster would be better still, and 5-point in a coat with the straps done right would be better still. And all that without a coat would be better still. But the difference between the last two would be negligible statistically.

 

I think this is where the disconnect is. It isn't about statistics. It is about physics.

[Seeking Squirrels]

Yes, I believe it to be a serious issue. My kids have never worn bulky coats in the car. It only takes a couple of seconds to slip it off and then they can cover up with it after buckling. 

 

In my certification course to become a Child Passenger Safety Technician, one of our instructors was from highway patrol. He told about a very small child they picked up off the road. Her one-piece coat/infant snow suit was found still strapped into the seat perfectly. Crash forces are nothing to mess around with and there's no way to duplicate it at home to be able to assume you got enough slack out. It doesn't take much.

 

I could easily see a 2yo being ejected if buckled into only the vehicle belt. It's just not designed for them. Actually the shoulder belt probably wouldn't fit them at all, making them restrained by lap belt only. Even if they weren't ejected, the lap belt would likely cause very severe internal injuries.

[luuknam]

Where do they sell car seats for $30? 

 

I'm not disagreeing.  I wouldn't base my decision on the amount of the fine. 

 

In order to leave the hospital I had to show them the car seat.  If I didn't have one, they had some available to rent for cheap. 

 

I remember paying about $30 (I think it was $29-something). That was 4 to 7 years ago though, so inflation, etc... here's one that's $35 - I'm going to say that's close enough, right?:

 

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Cosco-Scenera-Convertible-Car-Seat-Harper/26845779

 

Before leaving the hospital with oldest we were asked if we had a car seat (the answer was 'no', since we'd planned a home birth so hadn't planned on needing a car seat the day after the kid was born). They gave us one (for free!). But, that was a baby car seat - I thought this entire thread was about the toddler/preschool car seats. I don't recall what baby car seats cost - we did buy one later iirc, but I just plain don't recall.

[Starr]

I had a neighbor for about a year with a baby. A couple of years after they moved she stopped by and told me I had saved her son's life. I asked how that happened and she said, "You taught me how to use the carseat properly!" She had rolled her car on an icy mountain road and the child stayed in the seat and the carseat stayed in place as well. It really reminded me how the extra time to be sure everything is done properly is worth it.

[*Jessica*]

How do you warm up the car first if you're e.g. leaving the grocery store? Or do you get in the car, idle it forever sitting in the parking lot, and then have them take their coats off and strap them in?

You get to the car, unlock and open the door, take the coat off, set the kid in the seat, buckle properly, put coat on backwards or cover with blanket, and done. I live very close to you and it never gets cold enough that this would be dangerous. Uncomfortable, sure, but not dangerous. Frostbite doesn't happen in less than a minute with the temps we get in WNY. I don't bother to warm up the car before taking off their jackets.

 

I challenge those of you who have kids in car seats to put the kid in their coat and buckle them properly in their seat. Now unbuckle them without adjusting the straps, take off the coat, and re-buckle. You're likely to be shocked by how much slack there is now. My kids have never worn more than a light fleece jacket in the car, and even those leave more slack than looks safe.

[SKL]

I think these discussions go back to how people understand risk management.  The fact that something can possibly happen is interesting, but not determinative.  The odd thing is that we view different risks in different ways.  And the other odd thing is that people get angry when other people don't view risks the same way they do.

[SKL]

I challenge those of you who have kids in car seats to put the kid in their coat and buckle them properly in their seat. Now unbuckle them without adjusting the straps, take off the coat, and re-buckle. You're likely to be shocked by how much slack there is now. My kids have never worn more than a light fleece jacket in the car, and even those leave more slack than looks safe.

 

I did do that when my kids were in a 5-point, and no there was not a lot of slack, because it is possible to strap them in snugly with a coat on.

 

If we're talking about super thick coats (which we've never owned despite being in cold winters - we dress in layers), I don't know why a kid would want to wear those in a car anyway, other than for a very short commute in a very cold car.

 

[EmseB]

No, it's like this.  Kids sit in their seat with their lap belt (whether part of a 5-point or otherwise), with their legs perpendicular to their backbone.  Unless the lap belt is extremely loose (or it opens), the legs' position is going to prevent any ejection.  The possible exception would be when the legs are very short compared to what is between the lap belt and the back of the seat.

 

Ejection isn't the concern, except for young babies.

 

That isn't true at all.  Kids can submarine under a seat belt, and even if they aren't ejected, the concern with older babies and toddlers is that their heads are disproportionally sized to their body.  So they get flung forward (even held in poorly) and their overly large heads put too much pressure on their spines going forward and cause severe injuries and death.  (that's why, incidentally, it's better to keep them rear facing as long as possible, but definitely use a five point harness if it's not possible).  And if it's just a lap belt that can put too much pressure on the abdomen and cause internal injuries as well, if they kid somehow doesn't slip out of a restraint that is too big or improperly buckled.  Where are you getting your information about all this?

[My4arrows]

But think of the environment! Let's kill the planet just so we don't have to wear coats in the car. Save a toddler, kill thousands by climate change-induced famine etc (and no, I don't have the statistics on that, nobody does, since no-one knows how that will play out). (just to be clear, I'm partially cheek-in-tongue about this, since idling cars to warm them up are far from the only problems wrt the environment, and I'm sure my carbon footprint is too big)

 

Regardless, not everyone has an automatic car starter. Can you even get those installed for a reasonable price in a stick shift (I've seen people advertise them for $199, but I'm assuming that's for automatics)? I don't even have power windows.

I wasn't trying not to argue but the question was asked about how to warm it up and how it's illegal to leave the children unattended. Yes not everyone has this and it may not be affordable for all but in cold environments it helps. I also don't take my kids out often when it's cold to reduce the use of the auto starter and pain of taking coats on and off.

[luuknam]

You get to the car, unlock and open the door, take the coat off, set the kid in the seat, buckle properly, put coat on backwards or cover with blanket, and done. I live very close to you and it never gets cold enough that this would be dangerous. Uncomfortable, sure, but not dangerous. Frostbite doesn't happen in less than a minute with the temps we get in WNY. I don't bother to warm up the car before taking off their jackets.

 

I didn't say it was dangerously cold. Someone said they warmed up their car first, and I was just wondering how that worked. I'm not sure my autistic kid would've taken well to uncomfortable car seat coat drama (actually, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have). With some kids, you're just happy they're in the car seat at all.

 

Regardless, like SKL said, it depends on one's perception of risk.

[brehon]

I think realistically a 2yo's legs are usually long enough to prevent this. I guess if it was a really fat 2yo it might not. But normally the fastened seatbelt isn't going to come out nearly as far as the knees of a 2yo.

 

Do you know of any 2yos who flew out of a car despite wearing a seat belt?

 

I'm not recommending this btw, but there are statistics out there of tots in accidents wearing seat belts, and they do fare a lot better than kids with no restraint at all. It's just a fact.

Yes, SKL, I know of 5 tots (all under 5) who were either ejected from the vehicle they were riding in or came out of either a regular seat belt or improperly fastened car seats and flew around the interior of the vehicle. All were DOS.

 

Every. Single. One. Of. Them.

 

I know them because I was the medic at the scenes dealing with them. I remember those particular calls very, very well. My colleagues who have similar years of experience (I'm at 18 years in) have similar tales.

 

Seat belts are not meant for kids. Even very short adults can have issues with proper fit; although, they don't have the same issues with immature musculoskeletal systems as kids.

 

As for bulky coats I don't live in an area where they are required most years. My practice was/is to remove my kids' coats prior to buckling them in.

[SKL]

The whole business about the regular seat belt was only to disagree with someone's argument that there aren't degrees of safety.  Then we got sidetracked about seat belts and 2yos, which has nothing to do with being ejected or injured because of a winter coat.  While a seatbelt does provide a degree of safety, I don't recommend that 2yos ditch their baby seats for seat belts.  All the other stuff about sliding under, rolling over, etc. is not helping the coats in carseats discussion.

Edited January 18, 2016 by SKL

[EmseB]

For reference, I went out just now and sat my 2yo in a seat with no booster and fastened the seat belt.  The shoulder belt goes above his head.  He would have nothing holding his torso back in a crash.  If (IF) the lap belt held him in, he would fly forward at the waist, his neck would most certainly take on a huge amount of force from even a low-ish speed crash.  Not to say anything about the lap belt digging into his belly.  Or the possibility that the belt doesn't hold him in at all because it isn't designed for someone his size.  So, no, physics wise, I can't figure out how there are "degrees" of safety when it comes to little kids and seat belts.  I'd be interested to see the reading on it, though.  If a kid isn't strapped in properly, then the seat doesn't work as designed.  If it doesn't work, then they get injured or worse.  Even if you could quantify degrees of safety, do I want to use a car seat improperly so they would be 50% of dead?  Again, why not just use it properly if you already own it?  Then at least one knows they did their due diligence, right?

Edited January 18, 2016 by JodiSue

[EmseB]

The whole business about the regular seat belt was only to disagree with someone's argument that there aren't degrees of safety.  Then we got sidetracked about seat belts and 2yos, which has nothing to do with being ejected or injured because of a winter coat.  While a seatbelt does provide a degree of safety, I don't recommend that 2yos ditch their baby seats for seat belts.  All the other stuff about sliding under, rolling over, etc. is not helping the coats in carseats discussion.

 

Well, that's the thing with coats and carseats.  It is almost impossible to tighten a carseat by hand so tight that it would compress a down/fill coat enough to secure a kid in a seat in the event of crash.  So a kid improperly buckled with a bulky coat is not going to have a "degree of safety" because he will fly out of the straps when the coats is compressed at driving speeds.  Even being buckled in down below it is still extremely dangerous for a toddler because his whole upper body will fly forward in a crash because of loads on the neck due to disproportionate head-to-body size.  Their little spines are not strong enough to take the force.  It's the same physics as if he was simply strapped in using a seat belt.  The body flies forward and their neck breaks on the inside.

[SKL]

If you are still interested in whether seat belts are better than nothing statistically, look up national government crash statistics on the internet.  They will say whether a restraint was used or not, and for babies, they will say whether a car seat was used.  You will see that the death rate for no restraint > that with just a seatbelt > that with a car seat for babies.  It makes sense.  No, a seat belt does not prevent all deaths, and that is why we have boosters and infant seats.

 

There are other sources that get into even more detail about the objective results of safety options in crashes, but they are not as well summarized.  I haven't seen one that talks about coats + car seats though.

 

Ultimately your kid is safest sitting in a child restraint in the middle of the back seat.  So if you really love your kids, you'll only have one of them, because only one of them can be really almost safe in the car.  Since I have two kids, it's obvious I don't love them very much, so they might as well wear coats in the car.  :P

[SKL]

Well, that's the thing with coats and carseats.  It is almost impossible to tighten a carseat by hand so tight that it would compress a down/fill coat enough to secure a kid in a seat in the event of crash.  So a kid improperly buckled with a bulky coat is not going to have a "degree of safety" because he will fly out of the straps when the coats is compressed at driving speeds.  Even being buckled in down below it is still extremely dangerous for a toddler because his whole upper body will fly forward in a crash because of loads on the neck due to disproportionate head-to-body size.  Their little spines are not strong enough to take the force.  It's the same physics as if he was simply strapped in using a seat belt.  The body flies forward and their neck breaks on the inside.

 

Maybe you are not understanding "degrees of safety."

 

My kids have been in a car crash in coats and did not fly out or get injured.  Anyone else here?

 

No it is not the same physics as if he was simply strapped in using a seat belt.

[hmvaughan4]

If you know it could be dangerous, isn't it worth the hassle? Odds are, you aren't going to be in a deadly accident. But what if you were? You'd forever ask yourself "what if?" We're very honest with our boys. They know I've lost too many friends in car accidents to mess with car safety.

[SKL]

If you know it could be dangerous, isn't it worth the hassle? Odds are, you aren't going to be in a deadly accident. But what if you were? You'd forever ask yourself "what if?" We're very honest with our boys. They know I've lost too many friends in car accidents to mess with car safety.

 

As has been pointed out before, people are weighing it against other risks that they have actually encountered.

 

Also, the fact that we've lived all our lives in winter-coat land and never heard of this risk makes it appear rather a remote risk.  Which it is.

 

I think it would be more worthwhile point out the right way to position straps and chest clips, with or without a coat.

 

[EmseB]

Maybe you are not understanding "degrees of safety."

 

My kids have been in a car crash in coats and did not fly out or get injured.  Anyone else here?

 

No it is not the same physics as if he was simply strapped in using a seat belt.

 

No, I'm not understanding degrees of safety because either the car seat is used properly or it isn't.  If you've found a coat/seat combination that doesn't result in improperly buckled kids, then that's not the same as someone using a car seat improperly because their kids are in a bulky coat.  It is much more difficult to buckle a kid in properly if they are wearing a bulky coat, and the message to people is ultimately to make sure their kids are buckled in properly.

[MistyMountain]

I heard about this when my oldest was a baby so I did not put bulky coats on in the car seat. A lot of down coats are warm and thin so they had some of those we used over the years. Usually I did fleece coats with gloves and hats and kept winter gear in the car when they were young. I also sometimes used a coat backward over them. My dh one time strapped ds in full gear and when I picked him up the straps were way too loose. I told him to not loosen the straps and to take the coat off next time and he said he would. There are coats that are too thick if you really have to loosen the straps to make it work. If I can strap them in without loosening the straps then they could wear the coat. Winter is long here and most years we had weather that got below zero often with windchill. This was a simple thing to do to reduce my kids risk. I have heard of accidents over the years on the news where kids were flung from their car seats.

Edited January 18, 2016 by MistyMountain

[Seeking Squirrels]

When we know better, we do better. Just because many children have been fine riding with coats in car seats, doesn't mean it's safe. Some kids aren't put in anything and they turn out just fine. None of it matters at all.....until it does. And when it does, it's too late to change anything. This isn't like letting kids climb trees or not climb trees. Broken bones are at stake with climbing trees. The kids could learn from it to be more careful. There is nothing to learn from dying in a car accident. Riding in a car is probably the most dangerous thing you will do most days. Most car seat manuals (if not all) explicitly say not to dress a child in bulky clothing. To do so goes directly against manufacturer instructions and the child would not be considered properly restrained.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Although I never let my kids climb trees. Noooo

 

Once one of mine climbed up this huge dome thing.  It must be 15 feet high or so.  He got tired and was stuck up there.  There was no way I could climb up there.  Some woman had him jump and caught him.  Which was rather nuts, but I didn't know what else to do.

 

So..no trees!  LOL