MODG vs Seton vs Dual Enrollment

[ktgrok]

This is for a less than motivated student. He is smart, but hates schoolwork, honestly, and has serious issues with procrastination and just avoiding work in general. Yes, he has ADHD and no he is not medicated. He is very unwilling to have me work with him on improving executive function issues. He also has Aspergers and is difficult to parent. He actually went to public school for part of 9th, did fairly well but the workload in AP Human Geo was overwhelming to him and he is a true night owl so getting up at 5am was honestly making him sick. I also think being in school with that many people all day long was also stressing him and lowering his immune system. He doesn't like busy work. Of course, he doesn't like work in general. 

 

He took his first college class this fall (he's a sophomore), a Linux Shell Scripting class (IT stuff) and got a B. A few weeks before the end he was bragging that he could have an A even if she failed the final project, but he seemed to have miscalculated. And turned in the final project late. But anyway, he did get a B. He's now taking another class this semester, his first on campus class. It's another computer class, this time a hardware class. He's hoping to get some industry certifications as he takes these classes to showcase his interest in information technology. He also attends some information security conferences with my husband, etc and will probably volunteer with one. 

 

That said, he needs more work in the humanities. His PSAT scores were disappointing to him. He doesn't read much anymore. He and I battle over deadlines. I'm thinking that he either needs to take a lot more classes at the college or maybe I need to enroll him in say, MODG. They are flexible, he could keep using whatever math and science he wants to use but they'd expect some reporting of grades, help him set deadlines, etc. And he'd have to take a couple of classes with them, probably their history/lit combo and their Faith and Morals class. He's an agnostic but knows it is important to be literate on issues of religion (and I'm Catholic and would like him to have better instruction than I have given him.) 

 

Not sure exactly how it would work with Seton, or how much substituting we could do there. Any thoughts? Or should I just have him do most of his classes at the college? My worry with that is that if he messes up it messed up his college GPA, not just his high school GPA.

[Tiramisu]

You might want to call Seton. They are always very nice and helpful over the phone. I just called them recently.

 

I have friends who use MODG and I have some of the high school syllabi. They generally are very loose in terms of not providing a lot of guidance. The people I know who are long-term MODG users seem to have moved over to their online classes or teacher directed in order to get more guidance in the day to day and how to do assignments. That way it makes the parents less responsible for teaching and grading. The parents are the ones who typically grade and hand assignments in to their consultants. The people who love MODG are the ones who seem to do more than the basic enrollment at the high school level and who use their teachers and online classes.

 

Seton on the other hand really has everything spelled out for you in terms of expectations for assignments and their course plans are much more detailed. Students can take tests and submit online so that helps with independence. You have to take their English, history, and biology, I think. You can swap out math and other sciences with their approval.

 

When I talked to Seton recently I spoke with a special services representative and I was impressed. If you enroll in special services, they can customize classes to help with any differences. The help can be as much as changing materials or it could be as little as adapting tests. They can implement changes whenever they become necessary, too. And a student in special services can take longer to finish a course. Seton is known for being very challenging and I have the sense that many people I know don't always seem to be able to finish the work in one year. I think it's great that there's a option in a situation like that to get help to streamline a class so that a child isn't overwhelmed and can actually finish.

 

My feeling with the difficulties you describe MODG would be of limited help, unless you did the teacher option or the online classes and they have a lot of reading. I'm not sure what accommodations they offer. Seton as written might also be overwhelming for a kid who is not motivated and if you decide to do that, definitely talk to their special services staff.

[ktgrok]

Hmm. good things to think about. I don't mind doing the grading and turning it in to them, as long as there is a set time to turn it in, so my son knows he can't procrastinate, if that makes sense. Not sure how that works. 

 

With seton and their Biology, we are actually doing Biology right now, so he would have already done it when enrolling. Hopefully they would count it? Will look into that. I may go ahead and contact them with some questions. 

 

He's actually a good reader, and a quick reader, but he often chooses NOT to read. He's reading scores on standardized tests are dropping and it is because he's not reading much anymore, I'm sure. Writing and written assignments are more what might overwhelm him. He hasn't done a ton of writing, and although what he does is fairly decent if he really tries he often doesn't try hard. Again, why I want someone else grading papers. 

 

So glad my next child is a totally different personality. More than one of this kid would put me in an early grave!

[Tiramisu]

I think both have quite a bit of writing, but the Seton plans provide a lot of hand-holding for what and how to write. The other thing I liked about Seton when we did their ninth grade English is that after you submit a paper, you have the option of fixing it and submitting it again. The final grade will be an average. The original graded paper will have specifics about what was lacking so it is a very good learning tool, in addition to just being a second chance for a better grade.

 

I don't think either will provide you with firm deadlines, unless you did the teacher or online class route with MODG. Seton gives you a year for a course whenever you start (unless you use special services). For MODG, everything for the year has to been submitted by June. I'm sure it's more than that throughout the year, but it seems like they have a firm end of the year deadline, from what I've heard.

[ktgrok]

I THINk MODG said on their website they will help the student set deadlines if they want them, but I didn't know Seton doesn't. Hmm. I wonder if they would, if we discussed it. I will have to ask. I do like that they let them redo the paper to improve it. I am concerned that Seton seems to require 4 years of English plus another course in composition and another course in literature....are those each full courses? 6 credits of English seems like a lot to work in...on the other hand, eh could probably use it. 

[ktgrok]

Kolbe is another option, but they seem more rigorous to me. We tried the biology syllabus on our own, and he didn't do well. 

 

Maybe I need to be looking at online classes. 

[Faithr]

How about Homeschool Connections?  These on line live classes so not only do you have deadlines but you get to interact with other kids and the teacher.  That might help motivated him?  We did the Speech and Communications class last semester and my kids really enjoyed it.  My dd is saying she wants to take English with homeschool Connections next year (she really liked Kevin O'Brien the teacher).  Another good thing is that these classes are semester long, so if it doesn't work out, you are not stuck for the whole year.

[ktgrok]

How about Homeschool Connections?  These on line live classes so not only do you have deadlines but you get to interact with other kids and the teacher.  That might help motivated him?  We did the Speech and Communications class last semester and my kids really enjoyed it.  My dd is saying she wants to take English with homeschool Connections next year (she really liked Kevin O'Brien the teacher).  Another good thing is that these classes are semester long, so if it doesn't work out, you are not stuck for the whole year.

 

I seem to remember they are less expensive than some other online classes too. I'll go look. But I'm realizing it really doesn't make financial sense to shell out hundreds of dollars per online class when he could take dual enrollment classes for free. Unless they are at a better level for him. 

[ktgrok]

Also,the reason that Kolbe didn't work was that he was using a classroom syllabus and textbook (biology) but without a teacher to point out what was most important, etc it was just too much to wade through on his own. He did the work, but did poorly on the first test because it was over SO MUCH material with no guidance. Does that make sense? He's using Apologia now for the same subject and it is working better because it is more incremental....more review, more clear indication of what he needs to know. I'm not sure how Seton or MODG syllabi would compare. 

[ktgrok]

Just talked via email with both Seton and MODG. Seton does not and will not do any deadlines other than 1 year from when the term starts. So not sure that would help at all. MODG does, and will, at parent request. 

[Ellie]

This is for a less than motivated student. He is smart, but hates schoolwork, honestly, and has serious issues with procrastination and just avoiding work in general. Yes, he has ADHD and no he is not medicated. He is very unwilling to have me work with him on improving executive function issues. He also has Aspergers and is difficult to parent. He actually went to public school for part of 9th, did fairly well but the workload in AP Human Geo was overwhelming to him and he is a true night owl so getting up at 5am was honestly making him sick. I also think being in school with that many people all day long was also stressing him and lowering his immune system. He doesn't like busy work. Of course, he doesn't like work in general. 

 

He took his first college class this fall (he's a sophomore), a Linux Shell Scripting class (IT stuff) and got a B. A few weeks before the end he was bragging that he could have an A even if she failed the final project, but he seemed to have miscalculated. And turned in the final project late. But anyway, he did get a B. He's now taking another class this semester, his first on campus class. It's another computer class, this time a hardware class. He's hoping to get some industry certifications as he takes these classes to showcase his interest in information technology. He also attends some information security conferences with my husband, etc and will probably volunteer with one. 

 

That said, he needs more work in the humanities. His PSAT scores were disappointing to him. He doesn't read much anymore. He and I battle over deadlines. I'm thinking that he either needs to take a lot more classes at the college or maybe I need to enroll him in say, MODG. They are flexible, he could keep using whatever math and science he wants to use but they'd expect some reporting of grades, help him set deadlines, etc. And he'd have to take a couple of classes with them, probably their history/lit combo and their Faith and Morals class. He's an agnostic but knows it is important to be literate on issues of religion (and I'm Catholic and would like him to have better instruction than I have given him.) 

 

Not sure exactly how it would work with Seton, or how much substituting we could do there. Any thoughts? Or should I just have him do most of his classes at the college? My worry with that is that if he messes up it messed up his college GPA, not just his high school GPA.

 

Dual enrollment.

 

I wouldn't bother with Seton or MODG.

 

[ktgrok]

Dual enrollment.

 

I wouldn't bother with Seton or MODG.

 

 

My checking account likes this answer, lol. 

[Tiramisu]

I'm a big fan of Kolbe for their flexibiity, but I would think twice about using them again....because of their flexibility. If you use their online classes, you'd have deadlines.  Otherwise, no.

 

Seton makes things much clearer, in terms of what a student needs to know for a test, in my experience.

[ktgrok]

I talked with him, and he's very interested in taking more dual enrollment courses. And MODG will accept most dual enrolled courses...he only has to take two courses with them. So I'm definitely going to have him take more DE. If not, or even if we do, I might also enroll him in MODG. Even with the most basic level of enrollment they call and talk with him 3 times a year to make sure he's on target, making progress, etc. That alone might help him. 

 

But I think maybe 3 courses per semester of DE. So fall would be ENC1101, maybe American Government (thinking that would be a good tim to take it with the election coming up) and an elective of his choice (information technology related, I'm sure). Then in the Spring ENC 1102, Economics, Elective. But that leaves science. I just don't feel confident having him take that DE yet. And math. But maybe if I only have two classes to ride herd on, I can do a better job of it. 

 

 

[Ellie]

I talked with him, and he's very interested in taking more dual enrollment courses. And MODG will accept most dual enrolled courses...he only has to take two courses with them. So I'm definitely going to have him take more DE. If not, or even if we do, I might also enroll him in MODG. Even with the most basic level of enrollment they call and talk with him 3 times a year to make sure he's on target, making progress, etc. That alone might help him. 

 

But I think maybe 3 courses per semester of DE. So fall would be ENC1101, maybe American Government (thinking that would be a good tim to take it with the election coming up) and an elective of his choice (information technology related, I'm sure). Then in the Spring ENC 1102, Economics, Elective. But that leaves science. I just don't feel confident having him take that DE yet. And math. But maybe if I only have two classes to ride herd on, I can do a better job of it. 

 

You wouldn't want him to take more than two or three classes a semester at his age. He can take the science and math next year. :-)

 

And also, once he begins taking classes at the C.C., there's no point in enrolling in MODG. Really. When he completes [insert number] of credits at the c.c., you can graduate him. What would you need MODG for?

Edited January 16, 2016 by Ellie

[ktgrok]

You wouldn't want him to take more than two or three classes a semester at his age. He can take the science and math next year. :-)

 

And also, once he begins taking classes at the C.C., there's no point in enrolling in MODG. Really. When he completes [insert number] of credits at the c.c., you can graduate him. What would you need MODG for?

 

My only thought was that it would provide some oversight in his eyes, for the few subjects he does at home. Maybe knowing someone is going to be calling about his progress might matter. But if it is just a few subjects, I can probably handle that. 

[Ellie]

My only thought was that it would provide some oversight in his eyes, for the few subjects he does at home. Maybe knowing someone is going to be calling about his progress might matter. But if it is just a few subjects, I can probably handle that. 

 

Once he starts taking classes at the c.c., why does he need to do stuff at home? Everything you would teach at home would be required for his AA/AS degree, so why teach them twice?

[ktgrok]

Because some classes at the CC will be electives, and so I'm not sure he'll get to take all the classes he needs to graduate. And I don't think he's ready for more than 3 classes there in the fall. 

[Ellie]

Because some classes at the CC will be electives, and so I'm not sure he'll get to take all the classes he needs to graduate. And I don't think he's ready for more than 3 classes there in the fall. 

 

Who decides what he need to "graduate"? And how old is he? If he takes three classes each semester, each class being the equivalent of one year of a high school-level course, he'd still be able to do all the things he might have done in high school, but he'll have college credit.

[ktgrok]

Who decides what he need to "graduate"? And how old is he? If he takes three classes each semester, each class being the equivalent of one year of a high school-level course, he'd still be able to do all the things he might have done in high school, but he'll have college credit.

 

hm, you may be on to something. He's 16, he started Kindy late due to a summer birthday and in general being not ready to go.  I may plot out what credits he needs and see how they fit into a college schedule. 

[ktgrok]

Ok, if he wants to continue taking technology electives, and take everything else he'd have to take 4 classes at least 2 of the semesters, or take classes over the summer. He might be able to do that his senior year, he's not ready yet. I'm also not sure he's ready to take a college level physics class, and that's the science he still needs to take. Maybe we will do physics at home next year, and that's it? That might actually work. He'd like it, to have most/all classes at the college. 

 

Oh wait, and I want him to continue latin for another year, which he takes with an online class. But hat's fine, I'm totally hands off with that and he's doing well. He'll do that Jr year, that will give him 2 years of Latin.

[ktgrok]

so, after crunching numbers, Ellie is pretty much right. He COULD do it all at the CC other than finishing up his latin (they don't offer it) and only take 3 courses a semester. He would need to add in an art class somewhere, as our state likes kids to have had a fine art class, so ideally he'd take that over one summer. But otherwise, he could do it. Taking College Physics without taking high school physic would be hard, but I think as long as he takes the math for it first he should be okay. 

 

And I'd no longer be his teacher. Which would be sad in a way, but probably for the best.