Spin off the lottery question...

[Ann.without.an.e]

Lottery fever everywhere over this jackpot.  I've heard a few people say that winning it brings bad luck.

What does the Hive think...is winning the lottery bad luck?  Just killing curiosity.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Charleigh

[Carrie12345]

I don't believe in luck, good or bad.  I believe in statistics and choices.

[Tanaqui]

About 33% of winners of lotteries end up bankrupt  within a few years.

 

That's not bad luck, that's lack of experience managing money.

 

There are a large number of prominent cases where people who won BIG prizes - not a simple million or two, but hundreds of millions of dollars - ended up killing themselves, or being murdered, or divorcing, or losing all their friends. And in each of these cases, it seems simple to trace their troubles back to winning the money. It didn't solve their problems, and it gave them new ones. However, it is difficult to tell how common these cases are. They're so horrific that they stick in the memory, and may create a sort of sampling bias. After all, you never hear stories in the news that go "Guy won tons of money, his friends never asked for a penny, nobody in his family sued him, and ten years later things couldn't be better!"

[DawnM]

I don't believe in luck, good or bad.  I believe in statistics and choices.

 

 

Yup, no such thing as luck in my worldview.

[gardenmom5]

About 33% of winners of lotteries end up bankrupt  within a few years.

 

That's not bad luck, that's lack of experience managing money.

 

There are a large number of prominent cases where people who won BIG prizes - not a simple million or two, but hundreds of millions of dollars - ended up killing themselves, or being murdered, or divorcing, or losing all their friends. And in each of these cases, it seems simple to trace their troubles back to winning the money. It didn't solve their problems, and it gave them new ones. However, it is difficult to tell how common these cases are. They're so horrific that they stick in the memory, and may create a sort of sampling bias. After all, you never hear stories in the news that go "Guy won tons of money, his friends never asked for a penny, nobody in his family sued him, and ten years later things couldn't be better!"

 

this.  it's a whole new lifestyle is thrust upon them.  those for whom it makes their life worse off - is becasue they don't have the management skills (and not just budgeting) to handle that kind of money - and everything else that goes with it.

they can learn them, but many aren't even aware there's something else invovled with an entire attitude *towards* money.

but you have to look at who actually PLAYS the lottery . . . . generally, not people who have the healthiest view of money and understanding of how to make it work for them.

[Seasider]

I do think it would change how one grants trust to others. I can imagine most people, even the most wise, are inclined to want to trust people. However, if you were suddenly and publicly to come into that much money, and the usual hounds started following you, I think that switch would flip to "don't trust anybody!"  Imagine what impact that could have on relationships, choices, emotional quality of life...

 

And, has already been said, most Regular Joes don't have the money management skills such a fortune would require.

[Tanaqui]

but you have to look at who actually PLAYS the lottery . . . . generally, not people who have the healthiest view of money and understanding of how to make it work for them.

 

I know of at least two cases where the winner eventually went bankrupt through gambling.

 

But of course, for some people gambling is a highly addictive behavior.

[creekland]

I suspect those I know who manage money badly already wouldn't change just because they had more money to manage.

 

I can see it splitting up couples if the two don't enjoy doing the same things together and have similar goals.  With endless money, each would want to do their own thing.

 

Whether it goes deeper causing family rifts would depend upon how close the family was.  Ditto that with friends.  Of course, part of that too could be dependent upon how much the winner lords it over the others.  No one likes that regardless of the amount of money.

[HS Mom in NC]

Wealth allows people to do what they do on a grand scale.  If they're prone to self-destructive behavior and poor decision making, the winning the lottery will them in the fast lane to self-destruction.

[Ann.without.an.e]

Wealth allows people to do what they do on a grand scale.  If they're prone to self-destructive behavior and poor decision making, the winning the lottery will them in the fast lane to self-destruction.

 

[gardenmom5]

I know of at least two cases where the winner eventually went bankrupt through gambling.

 

But of course, for some people gambling is a highly addictive behavior.

 

playing the lottery IS gambling.  

[gardenmom5]

Wealth allows people to do what they do on a grand scale.  If they're prone to self-destructive behavior and poor decision making, the winning the lottery will them in the fast lane to self-destruction.

 

ah yes - the woman who won $188M in Feb, has now - for the fourth time paid MILLIONS to bail her loser boyfriend out of jail.  (this time it was $12M.) at this rate, she'll soon be broke.  and she has four kids, one of whom is special needs.

[Lady Florida.]

I don't believe in luck, but studies show that big money lottery winners often do have a difficult time. There are a number of reasons including, not being able to handle sudden riches and being a target for unscrupulous people (even friends and relatives have turned on winners), 

[Davysmom]

A family friend won the lottery. I can't remember how much but it was hundreds of millions.

 

They had a great life. It did bring people out of the woodwork. But they set up parameters of what to do with it. Each child/family member got a certain amount each year. And they gave to certain charities. But they had strong clear parameter for others asking for money.

 

They didn't go bankrupt. Nothing bad happened to them as a result. It was really surreal. They did some crazy things but mostly they were not extravagant. He bought and wore 10 rings. And they did some other things like that. But they mostly went on with life.

[The Girls' Mom]

I think it is just that all your problems (and all of your friends' and family's problems) become magnified with that amount of money.  That little spending problem you have?  A million times bigger.  That little spat of jealousy between you and your spouse?  A million times bigger.  Etc.  

[tm919]

The people who win the lottery aren't randomly selected... well they are, sort of, but the people who buy the tickets aren't, if that made sense. My dad taught me to regard the lottery as a "tax on people who are bad at math" (that's a quote from somewhere) so I suppose that just carries over for many.

 

As a result of this overstated and one-sided view, I always have a strong resistance to buying even a single lottery ticket. Once or twice my husband bought me one as a joke because he is bad at math, but that is it.

Edited January 11, 2016 by tm919

[Murphy101]

I think it's a combination of two things:

 

Lack of experience/knowledge and or impulse control.

 

And

 

Having a target painted on them.

 

Let's face it, no matter how fast and wiley the fox, if you paint him bright orange, he is very likely to be shot by hunters. God help the fox that isn't the fastest and most knowledgeable.

 

There's been some moves to change laws to not publicity give out the winner identity for their own safety, but it keeps not happening. I think one state even tried to give provision for not releasing the info for one year after winnings are accepted. So they have time to find safe harbor and advice at least. I really think that is a good idea.

[Murphy101]

I think it is just that all your problems (and all of your friends' and family's problems) become magnified with that amount of money. That little spending problem you have? A million times bigger. That little spat of jealousy between you and your spouse? A million times bigger. Etc.

Yep. I was reading a story of a bankrupt divorced lotto winner and she said her not so dear husband was a beer swelling party all night jerk before they won. He'd come home to locked doors and sleep it off in his truck. After the win, he'd just head to the four seasons and buy rounds for everyone.

[Catwoman]

Many people don't realize that winning a huge lottery isn't the way to an easy life. Sure, they can quit their jobs, but they now have a new full-time job -- managing hundreds of millions of dollars. It's not an easy thing to do, even for people who are already accustomed to managing millions of dollars. It's a whole different world. And for someone who was never even remotely wealthy and who doesn't already have trusted and reputable financial advisors... Yikes. :eek:

[Ravin]

The smartest advice I've seen is to hire a good attorney before you even go claim the ticket. I would probably take the lump sum and put it all into trusts for DH, myself, etc. before anything carried us away. We would probably also seek advice from the wealthiest of our family members--my aunt and his dad--neither of whom is mind-bogglingly wealthy, but both of whom have good heads on their shoulders and have managed their own money for decades such that they are comfortable in the upper middle class, and neither of which is the sort to go looking for a handout--from us or anyone else.

[NCMom]

I've known 2 lottery winners - one won Mega Millions and I'm not sure about the other. The first worked with in Customer Service at the lab where I worked. Her office was next to mine. She and her husband took the annuity (I think it's called) and got somewhere between 100 and 200K every year.  Their lives changed very little, although she did quit her job asap. That part made me jealous, lol. They live in the same house, take the same vacations, drive the same kind of cars, etc.  She did get a new kitchen and a fancy purebred cat. :laugh:

 

The other is the father of family friends. He also took the yearly payment. He was an engineer with Dupont, spoke multiple languages, traveled all around the world - obviously well educated and well off.  He retired and sells real estate in a swanky area on the East Coast. Hasn't changed their lives much either from what I see and what our friend says, though I think they are paying for college for the grand kids.

 

It's not always a certain "type" of person who wins. Nor does everyone who does win go off the deep end. Those who do are the ones you hear about...

 

Georgia

Edited January 12, 2016 by Georgia in NC

[Tanaqui]

playing the lottery IS gambling.  

 

No duh. But not everybody who buys a weekly ticket is going to lose all their money betting on the lottery, or in other forms of gambling.

 

Some people really can stop whenever they like. And some people... can't.

[Alicia64]

Not bad luck. It's people who didn't work for the $$$, and don't know how to deal w/ the level of wealth.

 

Alley

[elegantlion]

Aside from the money management, I think some people who play have a set idea of what Mega-wealthy looks like and try to live up to that even if it's not who they are. I can see how easy it would as someone who has had to make choices based upon lack of money for years. I think you really have to have a clear sense of who you are and a huge amount of self-discipline. 

 

Just because you can have it, doesn't mean you need to own it. I know people who if they had that kind of money would absolutely come to lead a bloated consumeristic lifestyle and it would take them years or bankruptcy to realize that isn't what living really is. 

[gardenmom5]

Aside from the money management, I think some people who play have a set idea of what Mega-wealthy looks like and try to live up to that even if it's not who they are. I can see how easy it would as someone who has had to make choices based upon lack of money for years. I think you really have to have a clear sense of who you are and a huge amount of self-discipline. 

 

Just because you can have it, doesn't mean you need to own it. I know people who if they had that kind of money would absolutely come to lead a bloated consumeristic lifestyle and it would take them years or bankruptcy to realize that isn't what living really is. 

 

mil  has a motto of "there are checks in my checkbook, therefore I can write a check." (she's not allowed one, or a cc).   dh did her finances for several years, so I've heard the mindblowing horror stories of how she would spend.  with NOTHING to show for it.  she spent it on junk.  how this woman has avoided bankruptcy boggles our minds.  and it wasn't becasue of how she spent. dh is back to managing (er: controlling) her money - and building her savings while she has a pretty comfortable life.  (she's 90, and dependent upon others to go place.  she isn't allowed to go into stores, and she doesn't know about qvc.  she's not online.)

 

her last dh WAS a millionaire when they got married.  he kept her on a very tight leash - until his health declined.  please note the "was".

Edited January 12, 2016 by gardenmom5

[Tanaqui]

I would probably take the lump sum and put it all into trusts for DH, myself, etc. before anything carried us away.

 

That is the smartest thing to do. Figure out how much you'll need to live comfortably for the rest of your life, assume some inflation and account for the risk of catastrophic illness or injury, and stash it away in a trust to keep it safe from yourself. Set it to pay out like an annuity, if that can be done, which I figure it can.

 

Once you've set trusts for yourself and your spouse and your kids and grandkids and anybody else you feel is entitled to a share of the cash, and you've paid off all debts and made house repairs and whatever, THEN you can go ahead and squander the rest. I mean, it'd be wise to invest some of it in a fairly safe manner - some in diversified stocks, some in government bonds from various G7 nations and the like, so you have the interest to live off if you want more money that you didn't put in trust - but that's not necessary if you've at least protected yourself from yourself.

[OnTheBrink]

I think it can bring in a set of problems that people don't have if they aren't lottery winners. I think how it affects the winner depends on what the winner thinks the money will do for them. I can only compare this to when I got my lump sum divorce settlement, but honestly, I liked seeing the big balance in my account a LOT more than shopping and spending it!  I have no desires to be a jet-setter or to live like the rich and famous. I think if I did win mega millions, I'd still be who I am today, just with a bigger bank account. For me, having that kind of money would mean I could have a nicer house, but not a mansion or even a house in the ritziest neighborhoods. Just something larger but manageable for my kids to come home to (and grand-kids, someday). It would mean my DD could go to college debt free. I'd buy a Subaru. I'd set up trusts for my kids and donate a lot to charity. I'd even consider starting a Charlotte Mason type of school or co-op. My boss and I were sort of day dreaming today about opening some sort of place for single moms (an apartment building or something) with a day care and school for the kids so the moms could go to work or school. 

 

So, millions wouldn't change who I am, I don't think, because I don't want $$ to just live luxuriously. I'd want the money to help others find better lives. 

[Tanaqui]

All the advice says that the lump sum is better, and investing in the treasury or something is better than trusting the state to give you the best rate of inflation over time.

[Word Nerd]

playing the lottery IS gambling.  

 

Sure, but in terms of the likelihood of gambling away their winnings, there's a difference between people who buy a ticket every week/regularly and those additional players who buy a ticket only when the jackpot is large enough to make the news.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Word Nerd

[3 ladybugs]

Interesting thread. I do think that poor people are more likely to play the lottery, therefore they are more likely to win. I don't agree with the assessment about it only being for people who are bad at math. That is rather insulting!

 

I had triplets in 2006, then got diagnosed with cancer in 2009. I once did the math on having live triplets in 2006 and then having cancer in 2009 (Lymphoma, I actually had a rare form of lymphoma but for this I just figured it out as I had lymphoma). All things being equal, I was one in something like double the women population in the US! I am sure if I figured it out based on my type of lymphoma, and that my triplets all later passed, I would be much much higher then that. 

 

My point is we all have things I am sure in our life where the odds were astronomical for us to have done or experienced. However, you exist! Lottery is sort of like that. You have to be in it to win it. 100% of the people that don't play, don't win. 

 

 

[creekland]

At this point, I wonder if it would be healthier to take the annual payments? I live in a tax free state, so I could take home 980 million over 30 years with annual payments of 35 million. That's more than enough and there's really no need to invest aggressively.

 

On the other hand, taking the lump sum would give you more than enough to live off of the interest if you don't go crazy spending money and barring inflation. 

 

This is a handy chart that lists payments by state. 

 

Cool - PA doesn't tax lottery winnings!  Thank you for pointing that out.  It'll save us having to figure it out Thursday.   :lol:

 

And addressing the bad at math part?  Eh, I teach math.  I don't play the lottery for a living and we don't invest our retirement savings in it.  We do, however, get as much enjoyment from it as spending the same amount at the movies or other events we sometimes attend.

 

It all depends upon how one is looking at it IMO.   :coolgleamA:

[TranquilMind]

Lottery fever everywhere over this jackpot.  I've heard a few people say that winning it brings bad luck.

What does the Hive think...is winning the lottery bad luck?  Just killing curiosity.

Let me have 1.5 billion dollars and I will let you know. :)

 

I'm sure I would be fine with it, but then I handle money well now.  Those habits don't change, for the most part. 

[gardenmom5]

I had the radio on this am - and they were talking about it.  they were sharing advice from a billionaire. 

he'd said - don't take the lump sum (taking it is common advice.  many of those who do, are broke in three years.)  there was an added caveat - if you know why it's a bad idea to take the lump sum, it's probably ok for YOU. 

if you think sitting on your yacht with arm candy drinking some sweet alcoholic drink is fun - don't take the lump sum.

if you were unhappy yesterday - you'll be unhappy tomorrow.  (and if you were happy yesterday, you'll still be happy tomorrow.)

 

[Tanaqui]

he'd said - don't take the lump sum (taking it is common advice.  many of those who do, are broke in three years.)  there was an added caveat - if you know why it's a bad idea to take the lump sum, it's probably ok for YOU.

 

Trouble is, the people who really need somebody else to control their money AND don't realize this are the precise ones who won't take this advice.

 

The thread I started is no longer talking about the powerball, per se, so I'm going to share these links here.

 

I just bet $1.3 billion to win the Powerball jackpot — now watch probability shred my money

 

A jackpot-rigging scandal is forgotten as Powerball fever sweeps the United States

[Bluegoat]

I think it can bring in a set of problems that people don't have if they aren't lottery winners. I think how it affects the winner depends on what the winner thinks the money will do for them. I can only compare this to when I got my lump sum divorce settlement, but honestly, I liked seeing the big balance in my account a LOT more than shopping and spending it!  I have no desires to be a jet-setter or to live like the rich and famous. I think if I did win mega millions, I'd still be who I am today, just with a bigger bank account. For me, having that kind of money would mean I could have a nicer house, but not a mansion or even a house in the ritziest neighborhoods. Just something larger but manageable for my kids to come home to (and grand-kids, someday). It would mean my DD could go to college debt free. I'd buy a Subaru. I'd set up trusts for my kids and donate a lot to charity. I'd even consider starting a Charlotte Mason type of school or co-op. My boss and I were sort of day dreaming today about opening some sort of place for single moms (an apartment building or something) with a day care and school for the kids so the moms could go to work or school. 

 

So, millions wouldn't change who I am, I don't think, because I don't want $$ to just live luxuriously. I'd want the money to help others find better lives. 

 

When I occasionally think about winning a lot in a lottery, that is my go-to project - one or a few little neighbourhood CM schools.

Edited January 12, 2016 by Bluegoat

[Bluegoat]

Sure, but in terms of the likelihood of gambling away their winnings, there's a difference between people who buy a ticket every week/regularly and those additional players who buy a ticket only when the jackpot is large enough to make the news.

 

Yes, or do it for a birthday, or with co-workers, or whatever.  The psychology of gambling isn't the same for everyone.

[Murphy101]

I'm surprised and yet not surprised that people need to be told to hire lawyers and to say no.

 

That's be my knee jerk reaction. Mama Bear Mega Protection Mode.

[Seasider]

Have y'all ever seen that movie with Nicholas Cage, Bridgette Fonda and Rosie Perez called, it could happen to you?

[livetoread]

I would certainly take the lump sum, not because I'd want more to spend, but because we can manage it better than the lottery commission would.

 

We live in an anonymous state and I like to think we could manage to not tell anyone. Our kids would find out eventually, but I'm not sure anyone else has to know. If we helped any friends, we would do it anonymously. So I like to think it would be possible to avoid a lot of the hassle and enjoy the benefits in a restrained way.

 

OTOH, secrets like that, if finally revealed, can cause another whole set of issues. Hopefully we'll be dead by then though!

[Tanaqui]

We live in an anonymous state and I like to think we could manage to not tell anyone.

 

Only 12% of states are anonymous, so lucky you. (Not that I suggest moving to a new state on the basis of whether or not you can hope to stay unknown if you win the lotto. I mean, really!) Still, in many states where you can't be anonymous, you can still claim as an LLC instead of a person. Sooooo... go to the lawyer, set up a shell company, send your lawyer out to claim in the LLC's name, transfer the cash back to yourself after.

 

[Murphy101]

If you live in an anonymous tax-free state, that's like hitting the lottery all over again! :D

No kidding! I didn't even know one existed!😯

[Ann.without.an.e]

Trouble is, the people who really need somebody else to control their money AND don't realize this are the precise ones who won't take this advice.

 

The thread I started is no longer talking about the powerball, per se, so I'm going to share these links here.

 

I just bet $1.3 billion to win the Powerball jackpot — now watch probability shred my money

 

A jackpot-rigging scandal is forgotten as Powerball fever sweeps the United States

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

No I don't believe that.