PSAT percentiles?

[yvonne]

So, this article made a depressing observation about PSAT percentiles, which I've pasted below. (The bold & underlining is mine.)

 

I can't get into my sons' online accounts, but I printed out a copy of their score reports when I finally got access yesterday. I see the "Nationally Representative" percentile right there at the top, but I can't find any mention of the "User Percentile." 

Does anyone know where to find the "User Percentile"?  I was super excited about their "Nationally Representative" percentile, but it seems that the "User Percentile" is the more useful (honest?) data point.  Isn't it more useful to know how my student compares to other students who have taken the test? 

 

 

 

 

"Here’s the most interesting point: College Board seems to be inflating the percentiles. Perhaps not technically changing the percentiles but effectively presenting a rosier picture by an interesting change to score reports.

 

From the College Board website, there is this explanation about percentiles:

 

Percentiles
A percentile is a number between 0 and 100 that shows how you rank compared to other students. It represents the percentage of students in a particular grade whose scores fall at or below your score. For example, a 10th-grade student whose math percentile is 57 scored higher or equal to 57 percent of 10th-graders.

 

You’ll see two percentiles:

The Nationally Representative Sample percentile shows how your score compares to the scores of all U.S. students in a particular grade, including those who don’t typically take the test.

 

The User Percentile — Nation shows how your score compares to the scores of only some U.S. students in a particular grade, a group limited to students who typically take the test."

Edited January 10, 2016 by yvonne

[MarkT]

"Perfect on a section is no longer 800. It’s 760."

 

this is sort of stupid - 800 was funky number but it has been around a long time

 

[Caroline]

It says it right there on the score report. There are two percentiles after each score. One is the percentile against all test takers. One is the percentile against college bound students. It explains it right there with both percentiles.

 

Many states have all their ps tenth graders take the SAT. (As far as standardized tests go, it is really inexpensive.) Obviously not all ps tenth graders in any state are college bound. I am not sure how college board made the determination between the two, but I do know that there was a ton of demographic information the students filled out.

 

There are plenty of legitimate complaints about this test and college board. I am not sure this is one of them.

[yvonne]

Just got in to one son's online score report and found the two different percentiles. Here's what it says about each.  (The score report that I printed did not have both %ile numbers, but you can see both online if you want.)

 

"Nationally representative percentiles are derived via a research study sample of U.S. students in 10th grade, weighted to represent all 10th grade U.S. students, regardless of whether they typically take the PSAT/NMSQT and PSAT 10. For example, a student’s score in the 75th percentile means that 75% of the nationally representative group of 10th grade U.S. students would have had scores at or below that student’s score."

 

"User group percentiles are derived via a research study sample of U.S. students in 10th grade, weighted to represent 10th grade students who typically take the PSAT/NMSQT and PSAT 10. For example, a student’s score in the 75th percentile means that 75% of the user group of 10th grade U.S. students would have had scores at or below that student’s score."

Edited January 11, 2016 by yvonne

[yvonne]

There are plenty of legitimate complaints about this test and college board. I am not sure this is one of them.

You may be right. I still think the article made an interesting point. but I'm completely new to this. It probably makes perfect sense to those who've followed it a while.

Edited January 10, 2016 by yvonne

[EKS]

The national percentile allows you to compare test performance to other nationally normed tests like the Iowa. When looking at college bound percentiles it is important to understand that the student is being compared to a group that excludes the bottom one third to one half. Reporting the national percentiles just gives more information about the scores. It has absolutely nothing to do with score inflation.

[yvonne]

Thanks, Caroline & Kai,

 

Could I also ask.... My sons are in 10th, and the explanation on their score report says that their reported %iles are based on students in the 10th grade.  Is there any way to tell how they compare to 11th graders, or to all students, taking the test? 

 

Is that how the SAT works, too?  If you take it as an 8th grader, for example, it reports a %ile compared to other 8th graders?  Or does it report a %ile comparing you to all other students (grades 8/whatever through 12) who took the exam?

 

I may have had faulty assumptions about the PSAT & SAT all this time!

 

Thanks,

Yvonne

 

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by yvonne

[cbollin]

If it would be of any help this info was on my dd's 11th grade report

 

(for total overall score)

The average score for the nationally representative group is 969  (11th grade)

The average score for the 11th grade College Board PSAT/NMSQT typical group is 987  (user percentile)

 

Reading and Writing (again 11th grade)

The average score for the nationally representative group is 480

The average score for the 11th grade College Board PSAT/NMSQT typical group is 489.

 

Math

The average score for the nationally representative group is 489.

user 498

[Sebastian (a lady)]

"Perfect on a section is no longer 800. It’s 760."

 

this is sort of stupid - 800 was funky number but it has been around a long time

 

The rational is that the PSAT score will represent the score a junior would get on the SAT if they took it right then.  They are banking on the fact that a couple months or a year will equate to a higher SAT score.

 

IMO, this doesn't make sense.  There are students who are taking the SAT right around the same time as the PSAT, a few months later, or a year later.  

 

I really wish that I thought the test represented a corpus of acquired skills and the score indicated how well the student mastered those skills.  I'm not convinced that is the case.

[yvonne]

Thank you so much, cbollin!

[yvonne]

I really wish that I thought the test represented a corpus of acquired skills and the score indicated how well the student mastered those skills.  I'm not convinced that is the case.

 

:iagree:    

 

 

I guess I need to wade through the CB info on the PSAT, SAT, and SAT subject exams. I'd have thought all the PSAT scores would be based on the same curve. But, it sounds like a 10th grader's 99th %ile, for example, would not necessarily be an 11th grader's 99th %ile. I guess that sort of makes sense. I just didn't realize that was the case till now.

Edited January 11, 2016 by yvonne

[EKS]

Is the reason the new PSAT high score 760 because the PSAT is slightly easier than the SAT?

[MarkT]

If it would be of any help this info was on my dd's 11th grade report

 

(for total overall score)

The average score for the nationally representative group is 969  (11th grade)

The average score for the 11th grade College Board PSAT/NMSQT typical group is 987  (user percentile)

 

Reading and Writing (again 11th grade)

The average score for the nationally representative group is 480

The average score for the 11th grade College Board PSAT/NMSQT typical group is 489.

 

Math

The average score for the nationally representative group is 489.

user 498

thank you - I also have a 10th grader - last year ( 2014 when DS was in 9th) they gave % against all test takers and the 10th grade and below group

[Janeway]

A couple years ago, it was explained to me that those who didn't take the tests are assumed to have lower scores than those who did. So, for example, if half the expecting graduating seniors took the test, then the lowest scorer of those who took the tests will be at the 50th percentile. That is why you never see people scoring 10th percentile or such.

[Janeway]

I feel like college board has way too much say and profit in our education system. From PSAT to AP, they rule the schools and lives/education, of our children. And they make a lot of money doing it.