Help, overwhelmed and frustrated

[PeterPan]

I was tempted to just do our own thing and keep reporting back to the ES with lesson numbers according to where we should be, regardless of what we'd done. I hadn't considered it from that angle. I will be upfront with her.

Because she "communicates well" and "initiates". I actually had a thread about this very thing a couple of months ago. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/567367-are-any-asd-markers-absolute-across-the-board/ 

I need to go back through that whole thread and remind myself of some of it. That was at the beginning of the holidays and I know I probably didn't take away half what I needed to from it. Sometimes I feel like if I could just get myself organized and get on top of what people tell me to do, this would be all under control and fine. :/

We're still discussing the possibility of meds and might give it a go.

 

That makes a lot more sense. I was thinking it would be quite like the workboxes we've used before that never worked as well as anticipated. I guess because they're meant to give the child more independence in their day, but since I had to sit there directing each next move anyway, it was pointless. I think I like the look of this system to build that independence separately from our regular work.

 

Does it matter how long each activity at the station takes? Should they be short things that can be done in a few minutes each, or longer to stretch her attention?

Yes, now you're seeing it!  The independent work stations are to get teacher control, to help her establish the idea that she does what she's told.  I'm with you that short, doable sessions make sense.  We want the *success* more than we care about exactly what it was.  My ds is hyper picky about what is in his bins, and he'll TOSS anything that doesn't make his cut.  Maybe your dd is more pleasant, lol.  Anyways, even that, don't think power struggle but think COLLABORATION and PROBLEM SOLVING, kwim?  Like they're going to have a ton of times in their lives where they hate what they're supposed to do.  So we can set this up and teach them the skills we want them to have, or we can "win".  But winning doesn't get us much in the long run.  Collaboration and problem solving are extremely valuable skills.  

 

You'll just have to play around with it and see what happens.  For us, it's 1/2 hour -ish.  Five bins, each with a brief thing.  He's probably mentally drifting a little (I don't care) and of course he spends time ripping the velcro tabs, choosing his goal card, etc.  The ripping of the tabs is really good sensory input and good reinforcement for the process.  Actually go for the velcro.  I think you'll see in my pics that I placed strips of velcro (which you can buy by the yard at Joanns) on the table to receive our cards.  He has a small one for his independent work station cards.  He has two long ones for his daily plan, which sort of ends up before and after lunch.  He has a spot for three break cards, which he struggles to understand how to use, sigh.  I should incentivize there.

 

Remember, once you set all this up, YOU control things and can reward/incentivize to make it happen!  You can use token boards or coins or whatever.  You can reward tokens for ANYTHING.  Good attitude, bam here's a token.  Doesn't have to be punitive and doesn't have to be like only for one thing.  Wow you're working hard, token.  Good job remembering to use your visual schedule, token.  And so on.

[kareng]

I very much agree with a lot of what homeagain has said. From my experience, it can be hard when you are in the trenches to realize that some things are more about behavior than homeschooling because they are so tightly intertwined. In fact, one thing I often tell people when they are just starting out and want advice on homeschooling is that it is really important to get the behavior, listening, attitude, etc. in order first. Or at least make it a priority. I know not everyone agrees but sometimes, "Suck it up" is a good life lesson. I know that I can allow my olders MUCH more latitude now because of the expectations set when they were young.

 

In our home, that looks like the following...

 

-They do not get to back talk. They can do a respectful appeal to my instructions, if they take that route the first time. If they decide to be a pita when I tell them to do something, respectful appeal opportunity goes out the window.

 

-Whining is never going to get them the response they are seeking. When they were young, they knew that if they decide to use whining as a method of communication, the situation will very likely end in them getting the *opposite* of whatever they wanted. Or I just don't hear them. Same thing goes for tantrums.

 

-Siblings of different ages do different things. That is life. Olders get to do more than youngers, but also have more responsibility.

 

-At that age, I was much more matter of fact than I am now. I just told them what is expected without getting emotional. Feeding the drama beast usually doesn't let you relax into your goal of homeschooling. Now, I explain more. Their thinking is more developed. Sometimes. Other times, I wonder if their brains have actually fallen out. I tailor my explanations to wherever they are on that continuum, lol.

 

-School is school and is non-negotiable. They don't have to like it, but their days will be much more fun if they have a good attitude. I worked in lots of physical activity and broke work up at the age yours is, but school just gets done. If it doesn't or they decided to drag their heels too much, they lose other things like sports, etc. That only had to happen a few times before they took it seriously. (There is no 7yo level sport team that is going to die if the child misses a practice or a game. I feel that being reliable to a team is an important lesson, but this other stuff trumps that lesson in priority. My goal as a parent is to get these types of behavior redirected into solid, healthy interaction. That trumps any outside activity. Besides, the coaches usually prefer well-behaved, possibly missing a practice or a game to holy terror, but there every week. :lol: )

 

-If they can't get ready in the morning in a timely fashion, I have them get completely ready before they have breakfast. Or I give them a time limit with a financial or privilege consequence. Different things have worked better for each of the boys at different ages.

 

None of this is traumatic or super hard core. I have always found that doing the hard work of being consistent on the behavior stuff early on yields really big dividends. Even with my super spirited one who required so much consistency I wanted to jump off of a bridge ;-)

 

Of course, they will have some times that are easier than other. Hormones can be nutty, but they are also aware that hormones are not a license to treat other people like carp. We just adjust and work through, always with the goal of showing them how self-control ultimately works in their favor and gives them freedom in the teen years.

 

What this also looks like in our home...

 

-We have always had great fun with our kids.

 

-We joke and laugh like crazy people often.

 

-We hang out together because we *want* to. I really enjoy the people they are becoming.

 

-They like to do school... Most days. Not always. Not every day is sunshine and rainbows. But the good days far outweigh the bad. Which is a win in my book.

 

-They know they can talk to us about anything. They also know they have the freedom to renegotiate things where appropriate because their attitude/follow through/whatever earns my trust. It shows me they are using cheerfulness, courtesy, civility and honor for others. It also helps them because I, and other adults, tend to take what they have to say more seriously.

 

-I can give them more freedom now because of habits they developed when they were younger. Of course, I didn't explain everything in lecture form or even expect them to make those connections at the elementary age. They are starting to notice it now.

 

I guess when all is said and done, the kid drama does not get to hijack the atmosphere of our home. We work together to create a home of peace and love and productivity. I reinforce that often. It isn't a perfect system, but it is something that I have found necessary for our homeschool to function well.

 

I didn't really intend to write a book here, but I can feel for the position you are in. It is rotten to have that much stress associated with something you love (homeschooling). I need to throw the disclaimer up that this is what has worked for *my* family. Take what works for you and discard the rest. You can do this :hurray:

 

[kbutton]

Sometimes I have the urge to crack down hard and then it backfires or I think we need to lighten up and then it gets worse. I feel like I always choose the wrong way to go.

 

Would I go through our pediatrician or our OT to get connected to a BCBA?

 

:grouphug: , I think a BCBA can help you figure out when cracking down or letting up might be more succesful.

 

I would ask both. If you are wanting insurance to pay, you might have to do it a certain way (like the ped). The reason I would ask both is because that often opens up a conversation with two kinds of providers with different connections and perspectives. If you were to get a really negative response or something that puts you on the defensive about why you'd want a referral, that also tells you something--that some of your "team" of helpers is more approachable than others, lol! 

 

Miscellaneous comments on the other comments--about the feeling discouraged and like things would be better if you were on top of things--that's true of anything, but that doesn't mean it's the root cause. I can always, always, always be more of a super woman, but that won't make my son not autistic. And honestly, making things ideal for our kids does not necessarily always provoke growth. I could be super structured for my son to the point that I actually make him less flexible. It's truly a balancing act, and it's real that you might feel mixed "if only" messages. That's an almost universal experience with SN parenting.

 

About the initiation and following directions. It could also be auditory processing stuff or trouble sequencing things. Many possibilities. But APD is co=morbid with autistic sorts of conditions.

 

When I reference information on meds, I am trying to remove barriers to how people perceive them as tools, not convince people they must use them. In that spirit, I would note that meds can make kids feel kind of stale. Or even provoke other feelings. Meds give my son more typical inhibitions, so he sometimes perceives them as hampering an ability. For instance, he perceives them as making it harder fo rhim to sing well on the kids' praise team at church. He sings just fine. What it does do is make him much more aware of all the eyeballs on him when he performs, and that is a GOOD thing. If he experiences that feeling on meds when he's facing certain other decisions, it could save him from doing something rash and impulsive. So, it's not a normal feeling for him, and he doesn't like it, but he's SUPPOSED to feel a sense of inhibition and doesn't. The meds actually do something positive that he perceives as negative. Even more so for adults--adults have had a lot longer to get used the things like that rush of euphoria when they are overstimulated, procrastinating, etc.(how many people claim that procrastination gives them energy--that's a socially acceptable thing to say, but it's not super-responsible, and it may not be the truth. It may be the adrenaline rush, which actually causes stress). To them, that is normal. But, there is an objective sense in which they can make a person feel blah. But, they are a tool. Ironing makes me crazy, but it's a tool. I don't want my new curtains to have giant creases in them, so I iron. But it certainly doesn't feel good. I go crazy doing it. I put on a podcast to feel better while I do it.

 

Meds are in and out of your body, so it's not an irreversible decision (though it can exacerbate underlying issues in a few cases). 

 

You are working hard. I hope you recognize that you are not the problem even if you do determine that you need to change what you are doing. You wouldn't be asking these questions if you weren't responsive to your child's needs. They just happen to be kind of complicated and conflicting needs at times.

[kareng]

Dear one, I feel your frustration and pain.  When I began homeschooling, my dd had similar responses.  Because I used to teach in ps, I expected to run homeschool the same way, and I expected my dd to act like a ps student. But given that she has dyslexia and most likely adhd (both of which I did not know at that time), she whined and complained and fussed and moaned.  I realized soon on that she was unable to listen/pay attention for more than 5 minutes while sitting down.  She is not a sitter.  She is a visual and kinesthetic learner.   It took me a few years to finally realize much of what ProfessorMom said above, especially the beginning part:

 

" From my experience, it can be hard when you are in the trenches to realize that some things are more about behavior than homeschooling because they are so tightly intertwined. In fact, one thing I often tell people when they are just starting out and want advice on homeschooling is that it is really important to get the behavior, listening, attitude, etc. in order first. Or at least make it a priority. I know not everyone agrees but sometimes, "Suck it up" is a good life lesson. I know that I can allow my olders MUCH more latitude now because of the expectations set when they were young."

 

I spent WAY too much time entering into my dd's arguments about why she didn't want to do something and/or why she was right about that. That is, until I realized that 1) I was the adult and in charge 2) I was the one to set the tone as to what was acceptable and what wasn't 3) I was the one to determine what was negotiable  and what wasn't (I was always trying to logically reason with my child while she just wanted to do what she wanted to do when she wanted to do it).  4) I finally realized that I was not doing my dd any favors if my dd's attitude was not checked and dealt with early on.  All academics were, in a sense, less important, than building character traits into my daughter.  It took me a long time to get to that point, but once I started on the right track, things slowly got better.  I am and was not perfect by any means, lots of stops and starts, Consistency wasn't my strength but I realized that I HAD to do this for her.  I had to do the best I could to make our lives predictable or I was sending her somewhere else for schooling. WE just couldn't this insanity any longer. Once things began to fall into place, life slowly got better.   Now that she is 18, I am so glad that I changed my focus from academics (and stressing over finishing curriculum and completing all school work) to character training, with academics along side of those important things.

 

Looks like you've gotten some really good advice.

 

Praying for you as you sort things out that will work for you and your family :001_smile:

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2016 by kareng

[Shellydon]

I find that find a homeschooling group or co-op has been critical to our success.  Having a group of homeschooling friends to hang out with has made all the difference for my reluctant kiddo.

[Seeking Squirrels]

Yes, now you're seeing it!  The independent work stations are to get teacher control, to help her establish the idea that she does what she's told.  I'm with you that short, doable sessions make sense.  We want the *success* more than we care about exactly what it was.  My ds is hyper picky about what is in his bins, and he'll TOSS anything that doesn't make his cut.  Maybe your dd is more pleasant, lol.  Anyways, even that, don't think power struggle but think COLLABORATION and PROBLEM SOLVING, kwim?  Like they're going to have a ton of times in their lives where they hate what they're supposed to do.  So we can set this up and teach them the skills we want them to have, or we can "win".  But winning doesn't get us much in the long run.  Collaboration and problem solving are extremely valuable skills.  

 

You'll just have to play around with it and see what happens.  For us, it's 1/2 hour -ish.  Five bins, each with a brief thing.  He's probably mentally drifting a little (I don't care) and of course he spends time ripping the velcro tabs, choosing his goal card, etc.  The ripping of the tabs is really good sensory input and good reinforcement for the process.  Actually go for the velcro.  I think you'll see in my pics that I placed strips of velcro (which you can buy by the yard at Joanns) on the table to receive our cards.  He has a small one for his independent work station cards.  He has two long ones for his daily plan, which sort of ends up before and after lunch.  He has a spot for three break cards, which he struggles to understand how to use, sigh.  I should incentivize there.

 

Remember, once you set all this up, YOU control things and can reward/incentivize to make it happen!  You can use token boards or coins or whatever.  You can reward tokens for ANYTHING.  Good attitude, bam here's a token.  Doesn't have to be punitive and doesn't have to be like only for one thing.  Wow you're working hard, token.  Good job remembering to use your visual schedule, token.  And so on.

 

I've been working on it all day and I now have the independent work station completely ready to go. I have all the visual schedule cards ready to go and put them in a binder, (I loved your idea for those. When we did workboxes I just had all the cards loose in a small bin and it was a pain to riffle through to find the ones I wanted.) Now I just have to figure out how and where to set up the visual schedule, I haven't come up with anything yet.

 

She has OT on Tuesday, I will ask about a referral to a BCBA. Planning on using the timer for any seat-work we do tomorrow, keeping them together (unless 3 yo wants to run off and play of course), and trying to be flexible. I like the first-then chart and think it will help if heel-digging occurs.

[PeterPan]

Anne, you're amazing making all your changes so quickly, wow!  :)  Seriously, you're doing great.  Just expect to have some teaching there and a process.  It was a happy day when I was talking with my ds about a possible change to our schedule and HE went over and made the change and figured it out.  But that's not overnight.  :)

 

Hmm, where to put it?  Christine Reeve shows lots of pictures where it's all one long velcro strip somewhere, like on the back of a filing cabinet.  I felt like the most important thing was that it would really be in sight, right in the middle of things.  So if you need to desecrate a wall or something, that's ok.  You could hot glue the velcro strip onto a whiteboard, or maybe it would just plain stick with the adhesive.  Mine hasn't come off the table.  It's one of those $30 (or less) adjustable height folding tables you can get at a discount store like Walmart.  It's a good height for his independent work, so I just stuck it on there.  I had thought about going vertical on some kind of board, but it seemed less convenient.  Yes, I love my notebook with the pages!  I don't know if you can tell, but I took colored sheets and slid them in page protectors then applied the dots.  It's a weird thing to do, but once it's done it's glorious.  

 

Use the visual schedules as a way to talk, to improve communication, to MODEL FLEXIBILITY.  Don't use it just to lay down the law, kwim?  It's really a tool to use together.  

 

You're doing great!  :)

[Seeking Squirrels]

Anne, you're amazing making all your changes so quickly, wow!   :)  Seriously, you're doing great.  Just expect to have some teaching there and a process.  It was a happy day when I was talking with my ds about a possible change to our schedule and HE went over and made the change and figured it out.  But that's not overnight.   :)

 

Hmm, where to put it?  Christine Reeve shows lots of pictures where it's all one long velcro strip somewhere, like on the back of a filing cabinet.  I felt like the most important thing was that it would really be in sight, right in the middle of things.  So if you need to desecrate a wall or something, that's ok.  You could hot glue the velcro strip onto a whiteboard, or maybe it would just plain stick with the adhesive.  Mine hasn't come off the table.  It's one of those $30 (or less) adjustable height folding tables you can get at a discount store like Walmart.  It's a good height for his independent work, so I just stuck it on there.  I had thought about going vertical on some kind of board, but it seemed less convenient.  Yes, I love my notebook with the pages!  I don't know if you can tell, but I took colored sheets and slid them in page protectors then applied the dots.  It's a weird thing to do, but once it's done it's glorious.  

 

Use the visual schedules as a way to talk, to improve communication, to MODEL FLEXIBILITY.  Don't use it just to lay down the law, kwim?  It's really a tool to use together.  

 

You're doing great!   :)

Thank you :)

 

I ran out of velcro strip from setting up the work station. I was just using what I had on hand. So I might have to use a pocket chart I don't use for anything else and just set them in there for now until I can go get some more velcro strip. The table we're using for our workstation has to pull double duty so I put those strips on the wall and the bins can be removed when we need the table for other things. I'm thinking maybe the wall near the door of our playroom/schoolroom. I wish I had a table surface to dedicate to it, but that won't work right now.

 

Yes I loved the look of your notebook and shamelessly copied it! I have all of the cards in the notebook and the pages are color coded so I can quickly flip to the page with what we need.

 

The flexibility will be the hard part for me. But I'm hoping that by making a point to myself of knowing it should be that way, that I'll be able to do it. Because being flexible IS the plan, if that makes sense.

[PeterPan]

Steve Greene's book The Explosive Child helped me a LOT with understanding flexibility, collaboration, etc. Highly recommend.