Penelope 1,037 Report post Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) Does anyone have more info about this particular class, or is it just known that there will be one? I know in the AOPS online classes, the algebra B is the end of the Intro to Algebra book. But of course that book does not include all of the topics traditionally concluded in an algebra 2 honors class, because intermediate algebra will be next and those topics will be included then. But I assume that many or most students who enroll in WTMA are not going to be looking for the full AOPS sequence, and so will be going from algebra 2 to precalculus and then calculus. Or is that a false assumption? (Maybe they are going to continue two tracks, one with all the AOPS a texts and then a more traditional math sequence as well?). So if I sign up for AOPS a algebra 2 with WTMA, I am wondering about the next step. Since their AOPS algebra 1 only goes through chapter 10, I would guess the algebra 2 is when quadratics will initially be covered, so I don't know how they will finish the intro to algebra book and also add in the additional topics. Anyone have insight? (Edited to add tags) Edited February 27, 2016 by Penelope Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

RootAnn 10,413 Report post Posted January 7, 2016 On the other site, Heather Q said to email her your questions. Since she's the one who will be developing the syllabus & future classes, I'd ask her. She seemed to indicate that she would add material to the Algebra 2 class. I would assume she doesn't really know yet what she's going to add until she starts developing the syllabus & class (this summer?). Perhaps someone who emailed her with these questions already will pipe up. She said she isn't part of this board & won't be checking in for questions - so just to email her. (Me, I'd make sure to answer them on here so I didn't get 50 of the same question, but ... I can understand her point.) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Roadrunner 5,993 Report post Posted January 7, 2016 I was looking at Algebra 1 topics on Khan Academy and it includes a lot of what is in the second half of Intro to Algebra book, so I am not sure why they decided to call just the first 10 chapters Algebra 1. I guess in the long run it doesn't matter as long as it all gets covered in time, but yes, I am puzzled about Algebra 1 and 2 division. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Matryoshka 20,688 Report post Posted January 7, 2016 I was looking at Algebra 1 topics on Khan Academy and it includes a lot of what is in the second half of Intro to Algebra book, so I am not sure why they decided to call just the first 10 chapters Algebra 1. I guess in the long run it doesn't matter as long as it all gets covered in time, but yes, I am puzzled about Algebra 1 and 2 division. I think that's why AoPS renamed their coverage of the same material to 'Intro Algebra A' and 'Intro Algebra B'... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Roadrunner 5,993 Report post Posted January 7, 2016 I think that's why AoPS renamed their coverage of the same material to 'Intro Algebra A' and 'Intro Algebra B'... What does that say about WTM Academy choice of names? :closedeyes: Finishing Intro to Algebra book won't prepare for a standard precalculus, right? I wonder if naming it Algebra 2 (unless of course they add more than what's in the Intro to Algebra book) gives an impression that it does. It's almost silly to be debating names, but I feel like for families who don't stick with the same series, it does matter. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Matryoshka 20,688 Report post Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) What does that say about WTM Academy choice of names? :closedeyes: Finishing Intro to Algebra book won't prepare for a standard precalculus, right? I wonder if naming it Algebra 2 (unless of course they add more than what's in the Intro to Algebra book) gives an impression that it does. It's almost silly to be debating names, but I feel like for families who don't stick with the same series, it does matter. Well, in WTMA's defense, the AoPS site was calling their own courses Algebra 1 / Algebra 2 / Algebra 3 until just recently, and I'd wager they chose the names before the change? Not sure when they switched the course titles, but I imagine it was to avoid just this problem - some people thinking that all topics needed for PreCalc were covered in the Algebra 2, and then finding their kids had gaps? I know the 2nd half of Intro Algebra goes beyond the standard S&S of Algebra 1, but I don't think it covers all of what's typically in an Algebra 2 course? It does get a bit confusing. Edited January 7, 2016 by Matryoshka 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

TracyP 2,882 Report post Posted January 7, 2016 We are working through AoPS ourselves, but I was wondering about this too. I am not sure we will keep up with the AoPS sequence, so I want to keep a closer eye on it than somebody who is committed to sticking with AoPS. Here are a couple threads that have been helpful to me. 4-5 yrs ago, RR definitely thought it was appropriate to label the 1st half of Intro "Algebra 1" and the 2nd half "Algebra 2". http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/community/c70h397640 http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/community/c70h412729 I'm not sure if the change in labeling of AoPS classes reflects a change of thinking on his part or not. Still I think this shows that the 2nd half is not far off of a complete Algebra 2 S&S. I think a good teacher should be able to make it a complete Algebra 2. Adding to that, here are a couple threads where the consensus seems to be that you can go from Intro to Algebra/Geometry to Precalculus with another provider. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/551246-algebra-2-and-aops-question/ http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/494481-aops-from-algebra-to-calculus/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Matryoshka 20,688 Report post Posted January 7, 2016 (edited) We are working through AoPS ourselves, but I was wondering about this too. I am not sure we will keep up with the AoPS sequence, so I want to keep a closer eye on it than somebody who is committed to sticking with AoPS. Here are a couple threads that have been helpful to me. 4-5 yrs ago, RR definitely thought it was appropriate to label the 1st half of Intro "Algebra 1" and the 2nd half "Algebra 2". http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/community/c70h397640 http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/community/c70h412729 I'm not sure if the change in labeling of AoPS classes reflects a change of thinking on his part or not. Still I think this shows that the 2nd half is not far off of a complete Algebra 2 S&S. I think a good teacher should be able to make it a complete Algebra 2. Adding to that, here are a couple threads where the consensus seems to be that you can go from Intro to Algebra/Geometry to Precalculus with another provider. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/551246-algebra-2-and-aops-question/ http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/494481-aops-from-algebra-to-calculus/ Hmmm... well, this makes me feel a bit better about dd's plan for math. She has it in her head that she wants to get to Precalculus by next year, but hasn't taken a proper Albegra 2 course - I'd like her to do one first. She feels like she lost a year of math when she went to PS and had to go back and do more Algebra 1 and wants to 'catch back up'. We got through chapter 18 of Intro Algebra. I'm going to have her finish up all the Alcumus for Intro Algebra (including for the extra chapters, which we can go over as she gets to them), then take the online AoPS Intermediate Algebra class starting in the summer. Even if it's fast, after that it sounds like she'd be more than ready to sign up for Precalculus at the CC by the following spring? She only scored a few questions short of placing into Precalc on the Accuplacer, and the CC adviser said maybe she should just quickly go over the extra topics, but I feel like that might leave her with too shaky a base... I keep thinking of that 'don't rush to Calculus' mantra... It sounds like AoPS Intermediate Algebra might well have a lot of overlap with CC PreCalc? Where does AoPS introduce Trig, btw? Our CC's sequence is a semester of "Precalculus" (aka College Algebra??? but that's not what they call it) then a semester of Trig, or there's an accelerated Precalculus/Trig in a semester class. I'd be even happier if she took it even a bit slower and steadier and took Intermediate Algebra w/ WTMA in the fall, but the course isn't being offered yet. :( Edited January 7, 2016 by Matryoshka 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

TracyP 2,882 Report post Posted January 7, 2016 We are only on Ch. 9 of Intro, so take this with a grain of salt... Reading that 2nd link from the AoPS forums makes it sound like that would be a good plan. RR says that Intermediate Algebra extends the basics from Intro to Algebra and covers "a great many topics" from a typical Precalc course. It seems to me that a student would be very well prepared for Precalc at CC after that. I agree that slower would be better, but if that isn't an option then I think that at least the exposure would be beneficial. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Penelope 1,037 Report post Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) We are working through AoPS ourselves, but I was wondering about this too. I am not sure we will keep up with the AoPS sequence, so I want to keep a closer eye on it than somebody who is committed to sticking with AoPS. Here are a couple threads that have been helpful to me. 4-5 yrs ago, RR definitely thought it was appropriate to label the 1st half of Intro "Algebra 1" and the 2nd half "Algebra 2". http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/community/c70h397640 http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/community/c70h412729 I'm not sure if the change in labeling of AoPS classes reflects a change of thinking on his part or not. Still I think this shows that the 2nd half is not far off of a complete Algebra 2 S&S. I think a good teacher should be able to make it a complete Algebra 2. Adding to that, here are a couple threads where the consensus seems to be that you can go from Intro to Algebra/Geometry to Precalculus with another provider. http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/551246-algebra-2-and-aops-question/ http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/494481-aops-from-algebra-to-calculus/ Thanks for the links. I get the impression that Richard R. was meaning how to label their courses within their sequence, not to imply that you would be "covered" for algebra 1 and 2 with their intro book well enough to go on to another course. And then there is the problem that the algebra 1 WTM course will need to start with chapter 11. Basic quadratics will be new material, not review, for anyone that is coming directly from the previous class. I don't know how much that matters. It seemed to me, in comparing some other books, that there were quite a few topics included in second year algebra that were missing form AoPS intro, just because they go so much deeper and do things differently. The WTMA classes are really tempting, because I like AoPS but don't feel like I can facilitate it competently past algebra 2 level. I guess doing algebra 2 isn't fully committing to an AoPS sequence or to a WTMA-AoPS sequence. I could always fill in the gaps over the summer if we needed to switch over afterward. It would be nice to have an idea in advance of what and how extensive those gaps might be. Hmm. Edited January 8, 2016 by Penelope 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

dmmetler 19,199 Report post Posted January 8, 2016 FWIW, DD was able to pass and do pretty well on our state algebra end of course exam, designed to be taken after Algebra 2 at the end of Intro Algebra (I had her do it because it was a free way of getting a nice, comprehensive exam for what was in a usual PS class, and finding gaps). So while it's not all of algebra 2, it apparently was a big chunk of it. I still plan to have her do intermediate algebra, though! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites

Roadrunner 5,993 Report post Posted January 8, 2016 So this brings up the question aboutvl Intermediate Algebra book. Is anybody knowledgable to say which chapters of that book fall more under the traditional Algebra 2 and which ones are algebra sections of precalculus? I know some things go deeper and beyond, but I am just curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites