Janeway Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 This is hard. I am a Christian, but a liberal Christian. And my husband is more of an agnostic. I want my children to be familiar with church and understand it and have a religious upbringing, somewhat. But, we live in the bible belt and it has been difficult to find a church that really fits us. Even the ELCA church is quite different here. We did fall in to a church that was ok. Morally, it isn't really teaching much that we are against. But, we just do not like going. And the youth group keeps leaving the church to do things we do not necessarily want them to do. For example, drive an hour and a half to a nearby city to do ministry work. We opted out of that activity, but now we just got an email that they will be doing it once a month instead confirmation and youth group that Sunday. They are very vague about what the kids will be doing. I feel like there is so much good to be done right here in our little town, they could do that. My husband and I agreed right away that we did not want them to leave in the morning and traveling that far like that. In the fall, we always had a time conflict so it was not an issue. And they only did it a couple or three times. Now it seems that once a month they are doing that. And once a month they are doing something at a prison. I am unsure where the prison is as the ministry is called by a name and does not seem to reference a specific prison. I get that this might be something that others find to be great. And I am all for doing community service. But I just do not want that. I already do volunteer work right here in town. We could use more volunteers. I like taking my children with me to the things I do. I do not mind them doing other volunteer work for some hours, even a few hours a week. But driving that far to do something elsewhere, I am not getting. My own volunteer work, in our area, deals with homeless children, homeless families, and I also help with maintaining park and public areas too sometimes, like gardening, weeding, etc. Meanwhile, there are NO volunteer opportunities within the church. Is that just odd? I think it is odd. The kids are driving 1.5 to a city to do the same exact things that we are paying others to do around the church. It feels like it is all for show. I feel obligated to go to give my children a religious component to our home school. But, I just do not like it at all. Our town is not huge and I am not willing to consider the more conservative churches (specifically, I do not want my children being a part of the anti-gay anything). Would it be terrible for us to just stop? Honestly, this is our main social thing. Or would it be better to keep going, but then continue to opt out of these trips? How would I replace this social outlet? My children do have extracurriculars, is that enough? They each have 2 classes a week outsourced. And they have 3 classes each a week of physical outsourced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professormom Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I wish I had some good insight for you. You may want to repost or cross post this to the chat board. I'd imagine you would get lots of people willing to help. ((Hugs)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caribbean Queen Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 If I were you I'd look in the phonebook and see what kind of churches are in your area. The United Church of Christ and the Episcopal church might fit what you are looking for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professormom Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 If I were you I'd look in the phonebook and see what kind of churches are in your area. The United Church of Christ and the Episcopal church might fit what you are looking for. I just had a chance to really read through this and Caribbean Queen has good advice:-) one of those sound like they might be a good fit for what you are looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Would it be terrible for us to just stop? Honestly, this is our main social thing. Or would it be better to keep going, but then continue to opt out of these trips? How would I replace this social outlet? My children do have extracurriculars, is that enough? They each have 2 classes a week outsourced. And they have 3 classes each a week of physical outsourced. I hear this sentiment so often from people in the bible belt, I wonder how many people in your area might appreciate a secular homeschool meet up. Secular just means religion isn't a part of the group's dynamic. In my area, we have a secular homeschool group that has xians, jews, hindus, a muslim woman came once when I was there, pagans, and people with no religious affiliation at all. Religion just never came up. We met at parks and each person would offer some kind of field trip at some time during the year. It was very low key, and that worked just great for us. You could start something in your area easy-peasy if there's not already something set up. Just start a meetup group and see who responds. Then talk about meeting at some neutral location (indoor or out, depending on your climate). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 If you can find a pastor whose theology you line up with anywhere in the country, you can email them to see if they can recommend a church in your area. I've done that before. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Lynn Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 I would go to church, but not participate in youth group before I just stopped altogether. I think it's extremely rare (perhaps non-existent) for youth groups to be done well, imho. You could try 50 churches - conservative or liberal - and probably not be happy with the youth group. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 If I were you I'd look in the phonebook and see what kind of churches are in your area. The United Church of Christ and the Episcopal church might fit what you are looking for. Or possibly a Unitarian Universalist church. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Is there a possibility that you could personally infuse the youth group with better volunteer opportunities? I'm thinking of a little judo here--use their energy to flip them into a more local direction. For instance, "I think it's great that the kids are being encouraged to volunteer to help others. I'd be happy to organize and lead 'mission trips' in our immediate vicinity once a month for the next 6 months. We would serve dinner to the homeless at xxx shelter, make sandwiches and pass them out at YYY park, weed planter ZZZ here at church and plant it with veggies for the kids at AAA group home, etc. This month we will prune the roses at church. The kids will learn how to do this, and then receive a rose bush to plant at their own home or gift to someone else. That would be a real service to our church, and one less thing to pay the gardener for! Do you guys have any other great ideas? There are so many needs in our community, and I think that the kids will really enjoy themselves!" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Yes, stop church. I mean, if there's a UU church or an Ethical Society or a Quaker meeting or somewhere else that you might feel comfortable with like a liberal Christian church, then look into it, but otherwise, yeah, church does not have to be the center of your social lives. And you can still instill a religious component to your homeschooling - do units on world religions, talk about what you believe, read things that are spiritual that are in line with your thinking - maybe that's parts of the Bible, maybe it's On Walden Pond, maybe it's poetry or something else. You can still have that. As for replacing the social component, I think that's important but there are lots of ways to do it. And maybe you already have it - you say the kids already have extracurriculars - do they have good friendships that you can take a little extra time if you drop church to try and foster and give time to? Is it really you'll need more family social time - maybe make a monthly supper club with family friends or a monthly board game night with other families you like. Basically, I think there are plenty ways to build in routine socializing as a family or for the kids without having a specific community base. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Another separate thought--maybe start a Roots and Shoots (Jane Goodall's organization) volunteer group and invite youth from your church and the community to do local volunteer work with you? My DD was in one of those for a couple of years, and it was awesome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I think the suggestion to consider stopping participation in the youth group might be a good option. Or - see what you can find out about why they are doing the things they are. In a lot of churches, what such groups do depends a lot on who happens to be the director. I think it would be a good idea to ask about the questions you have about going so far for volunteer activities - what is it they are looking for the kids to get out of it? I do think that if you are interested in any kind of CHristian upbringing, stopping attendance altogether is not as simple as losing out on social time. THe CHristian community is a pretty fundamental part of the fabric of the Church. While its possible to do it alone or with just family, and sometimes necessary, it really isn't ideal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted January 8, 2016 Author Share Posted January 8, 2016 What they teach is not a problem. They align with our beliefs. It is just the community service they keep picking. And this spring, it seems to be a major part of the youth group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Check out the Methodist churches in your area; they are generally inoffensive to most liberal Protestants and meet your other criteria.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Twain Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 For the religious educational component, you could just read through the New Testament with your kids and discuss it as you go along. As for the service component, just take the kids with you as you do service activities as you already mentioned. Those two activities may accomplish your main objectives. You may not need to go to a church, especially since you can not find one that you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted January 11, 2016 Author Share Posted January 11, 2016 Check out the Methodist churches in your area; they are generally inoffensive to most liberal Protestants and meet your other criteria.. It is the UMC. They are not offensive, it is the youth group. One thing that was offensive though, if I want to be in the building at all during youth group time, I have to pass a criminal background check, and go through special training, AND be selected to work there. Even if you go through all the background checks and training, you might not be selected. They claim this is because the safety of the youth is number one concern and they have to know exactly who and what is going with the youth during youth group times. Meanwhile, I have shown up multiple times only to find out that they left the property to go out for ice cream or something. We had no warning ahead of time and they all just road with a variety of people. This means, not only are they off property with who knows who driving, but they are around anyone and everyone in public. So why can't a parent come in to observe the youth group on occasion? They take this so seriously that one time, I needed to use the restroom in the church when I had arrived too early to pick them up and I was not allowed to. I had to drive across the street to the grocery store. In addition to this, they intend to take them a considerable distance, with whoever for drivers, in to a major city, inner city area, to minister to the people there. I am not comfortable with this. I asked them what they will do, and I was told they didn't really know yet, maybe construction stuff. Well, we have a Christian community place here for volunteer work, helping the elderly, disabled, etc. They are always looking for more help. We have a variety of things like that. This group has never ever done any sort of work within the community, or even within the church. I feel like they are telling the kids "this is us and our town, we better than others, our entire community has no problems or issues, we drive a long distance to find people to help." Its not a good message. When I was in church, as a teen, we did work around the church. A lot of us did volunteer work right there, in our community. The only community outreach this youth group has done is prison ministry, which I am not comfortable with, and now the thing down in the inner city. They say it takes over one and a half hours to get there. I am not comfortable with my child doing either. And they are always non-specific over what our children are supposed to do. They seem to feel they have the right to do whatever they want. I am sure these choices in ministry are specific to this church, this particular UMC. But my husband gave me a talking to last night and he is right. The red flags are there. I have been ignoring them and letting them pass because they are a church. But so much bad has happened in the past because parents let things go under the excuse that it was a church. Or a scout leader. Or a teacher..or some other "trusted" person or entity. So, we decided to let it go. Too bad too. I liked the kids there and all. The services were fine. But going to the services and not allowing the kids to go to youth group would be silly now that they have already started the youth group. I think we will simply find a new church and then stick to just the services and forget the youth group. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 What they teach is not a problem. They align with our beliefs. It is just the community service they keep picking. And this spring, it seems to be a major part of the youth group. Have you talked directly to the person in charge of youth group community service and asked them to consider doing local ministries? How did they respond? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor_dad Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 You have Christian community groups and places you already volunteer... why not ask some of those folks where they go to church and where they see kid volunteers coming from? It sounds like most of the mainline and liberal churches would be a possible fit. Surely some of those work with the groups you already know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 While sometimes it seems like there are opportunities everywhere... having helped coordinate community service for kids in the past... it can be rough to find ongoing opportunities. Some things kids can do as individuals they can't do in a group. Some things are only with parents. Some things have age requirements that the youngest in a youth group won't be able to meet. When I was a kid, our youth group did a mix of community service in the community and elsewhere - I don't think it sent the wrong message - I appreciated that we went places to see that things can be different. I can see it both ways. The thing where they wouldn't let you in to pee because they were so anti-parents though... good grief, that's really extreme and weird. That would make me super suspicious. And while I wouldn't automatically have an issue with leaving for ice cream - I mean, it's the youth group so some kids are even driving themselves at this point - I would dislike that they seem to change plans and not be really informative. I really think you should talk to the minister. But also, my advice above still stands. Church doesn't have to be the center of your social life for your kids. Ditch it if it's not working or keep going as a family and ditch the youth group as a regular thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carol in Cal. Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I have heard this kind of thing so often. What is it about youth programs that seems to make them feel like they automatically have to set themselves up in opposition to parents? It's really weird. My guess is that they got a serious scare from either their insurance company or their regional or national church body office about responsible safety precautions and are taking it further than intended--hence the bathroom thing. I will say, though, if the kids were younger that expectation would be normal. We have a preschool at our church, and when it is in session with preschool kids in attendance there are specific bathrooms for the kids that adults are not allowed to use, by law. Running down the source of these rules would be a good idea, because it should be reasonable to turn this around; plus, parents should be able to visit on occasion, at least for part of the meeting. As for the other stuff, my guess is that they have a somewhat immature leader who is either overly defensive of his position, or not a good, thorough planner, or overly enamored of Meaningful Surprises and Profound Urban Experiences, based on his own youth, for the kids, or some combo of the three. If so, it is unlikely that he will change or even consider changing because if you challenge him he will feel attacked. That's why I proposed diversion upthread. You probably can't fix this but you might be able to salvage it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professormom Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I agree that the way they are handling that seems really odd. I understand two-deep leaders and, especially when kids are younger, bathroom restrictions. But there are also usually hoops to jump through for kids to be taken off site that go along with the restrictions. I find it odd that they won't let you in the building... I mean seriously, nothing concurrent runs at the same time as youth group... In a church?! That is just really strange to me. But that couple with the fact that they just take off with the kids willy nilly makes it a concern. I hope you find your place. I would want more in community opportunities as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professormom Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 As for the other stuff, my guess is that they have a somewhat immature leader who is either overly defensive of his position, or not a good, thorough planner, or overly enamored of Meaningful Surprises and Profound Urban Experiences, based on his own youth, for the kids, or some combo of the three. If so, it is unlikely that he will change or even consider changing because if you challenge him he will feel attacked. That's why I proposed diversion upthread. You probably can't fix this but you might be able to salvage it. :lol: the overly enamoured sentence completely cracked me up:-) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 We do this too; the background check is for the safety of the kids, as much as that can keep them safe, so I don't mind it. But I agree they sound a little off the wall about you not visiting or participating. One thing I have found is that Methodist churches have really different flavors, depending on the pastor/youth leader. You may need to find another Methodist church (they're a dime a dozen here, but maybe not so plentiful where you come from. Barring that, I agree with the others that you may need to teach Bible yourself and find outside service acitvities. It is the UMC. They are not offensive, it is the youth group. One thing that was offensive though, if I want to be in the building at all during youth group time, I have to pass a criminal background check, and go through special training, AND be selected to work there. Even if you go through all the background checks and training, you might not be selected. They claim this is because the safety of the youth is number one concern and they have to know exactly who and what is going with the youth during youth group times. Meanwhile, I have shown up multiple times only to find out that they left the property to go out for ice cream or something. We had no warning ahead of time and they all just road with a variety of people. This means, not only are they off property with who knows who driving, but they are around anyone and everyone in public. So why can't a parent come in to observe the youth group on occasion? They take this so seriously that one time, I needed to use the restroom in the church when I had arrived too early to pick them up and I was not allowed to. I had to drive across the street to the grocery store. In addition to this, they intend to take them a considerable distance, with whoever for drivers, in to a major city, inner city area, to minister to the people there. I am not comfortable with this. I asked them what they will do, and I was told they didn't really know yet, maybe construction stuff. Well, we have a Christian community place here for volunteer work, helping the elderly, disabled, etc. They are always looking for more help. We have a variety of things like that. This group has never ever done any sort of work within the community, or even within the church. I feel like they are telling the kids "this is us and our town, we better than others, our entire community has no problems or issues, we drive a long distance to find people to help." Its not a good message. When I was in church, as a teen, we did work around the church. A lot of us did volunteer work right there, in our community. The only community outreach this youth group has done is prison ministry, which I am not comfortable with, and now the thing down in the inner city. They say it takes over one and a half hours to get there. I am not comfortable with my child doing either. And they are always non-specific over what our children are supposed to do. They seem to feel they have the right to do whatever they want. I am sure these choices in ministry are specific to this church, this particular UMC. But my husband gave me a talking to last night and he is right. The red flags are there. I have been ignoring them and letting them pass because they are a church. But so much bad has happened in the past because parents let things go under the excuse that it was a church. Or a scout leader. Or a teacher..or some other "trusted" person or entity. So, we decided to let it go. Too bad too. I liked the kids there and all. The services were fine. But going to the services and not allowing the kids to go to youth group would be silly now that they have already started the youth group. I think we will simply find a new church and then stick to just the services and forget the youth group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefgazer Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Yup, this. All the Methodist churches started this at the same time around here, as per insurance regs. I have heard this kind of thing so often. What is it about youth programs that seems to make them feel like they automatically have to set themselves up in opposition to parents? It's really weird. My guess is that they got a serious scare from either their insurance company or their regional or national church body office about responsible safety precautions and are taking it further than intended--hence the bathroom thing. I will say, though, if the kids were younger that expectation would be normal. We have a preschool at our church, and when it is in session with preschool kids in attendance there are specific bathrooms for the kids that adults are not allowed to use, by law. Running down the source of these rules would be a good idea, because it should be reasonable to turn this around; plus, parents should be able to visit on occasion, at least for part of the meeting. As for the other stuff, my guess is that they have a somewhat immature leader who is either overly defensive of his position, or not a good, thorough planner, or overly enamored of Meaningful Surprises and Profound Urban Experiences, based on his own youth, for the kids, or some combo of the three. If so, it is unlikely that he will change or even consider changing because if you challenge him he will feel attacked. That's why I proposed diversion upthread. You probably can't fix this but you might be able to salvage it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I was also going to say that the weird rules sounds like a CYA policy. I am surprised though they don't have something similar for the outings though. I am pretty free-range and generally think teens are very capable, but I am not sure I think prison ministry is a good thing for them, (or the prisoners.) And when there is no real plan for their labour, that is just bad management. I think I would have a serious talk with the pastor of the church aout my concerns. It may be that one person has just been allowed to run the youth group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) This is hard. I am a Christian, but a liberal Christian. And my husband is more of an agnostic. I want my children to be familiar with church and understand it and have a religious upbringing, somewhat. But, we live in the bible belt and it has been difficult to find a church that really fits us. Even the ELCA church is quite different here. We did fall in to a church that was ok. Morally, it isn't really teaching much that we are against. But, we just do not like going. And the youth group keeps leaving the church to do things we do not necessarily want them to do. For example, drive an hour and a half to a nearby city to do ministry work. We opted out of that activity, but now we just got an email that they will be doing it once a month instead confirmation and youth group that Sunday. They are very vague about what the kids will be doing. I feel like there is so much good to be done right here in our little town, they could do that. My husband and I agreed right away that we did not want them to leave in the morning and traveling that far like that. In the fall, we always had a time conflict so it was not an issue. And they only did it a couple or three times. Now it seems that once a month they are doing that. And once a month they are doing something at a prison. I am unsure where the prison is as the ministry is called by a name and does not seem to reference a specific prison. I get that this might be something that others find to be great. And I am all for doing community service. But I just do not want that. I already do volunteer work right here in town. We could use more volunteers. I like taking my children with me to the things I do. I do not mind them doing other volunteer work for some hours, even a few hours a week. But driving that far to do something elsewhere, I am not getting. My own volunteer work, in our area, deals with homeless children, homeless families, and I also help with maintaining park and public areas too sometimes, like gardening, weeding, etc. Meanwhile, there are NO volunteer opportunities within the church. Is that just odd? I think it is odd. The kids are driving 1.5 to a city to do the same exact things that we are paying others to do around the church. It feels like it is all for show. I feel obligated to go to give my children a religious component to our home school. But, I just do not like it at all. Our town is not huge and I am not willing to consider the more conservative churches (specifically, I do not want my children being a part of the anti-gay anything). Would it be terrible for us to just stop? Honestly, this is our main social thing. Or would it be better to keep going, but then continue to opt out of these trips? How would I replace this social outlet? My children do have extracurriculars, is that enough? They each have 2 classes a week outsourced. And they have 3 classes each a week of physical outsourced. I'm all for ministering to others and did a prison ministry myself for some years. That said, I would not be comfortable with only nominally known individuals transporting my minor kids hours away. That would be a huge no from me. Not sure how old your kids are but I just would not be ok with that. I've seen too much. Vagueness is a huge red flag to me. I don't want a liberal church (as I understand it) so I would attend one of the others rather than continue to opt out of trips you think are a bad idea. You will just get pressure over time. Reminds me of when my kids were little and we kept them with us in service. They were absolutely quiet and if they ever moved around, we took them out. This seemed to drive some people bonkers, both that we didn't use the "church ministry" (which eventually disintegrated into babysitting by showing Disney movies every week), and that I did not volunteer with the young kids. Young kids are not my thing, and I was with my own the entire week. As an empty nester, it might be something to consider, though I am better with older kids or old people, but not as a homeschooling mom of young children. Edited January 12, 2016 by TranquilMind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 It is the UMC. They are not offensive, it is the youth group. One thing that was offensive though, if I want to be in the building at all during youth group time, I have to pass a criminal background check, and go through special training, AND be selected to work there. Even if you go through all the background checks and training, you might not be selected. They claim this is because the safety of the youth is number one concern and they have to know exactly who and what is going with the youth during youth group times. Meanwhile, I have shown up multiple times only to find out that they left the property to go out for ice cream or something. We had no warning ahead of time and they all just road with a variety of people. This means, not only are they off property with who knows who driving, but they are around anyone and everyone in public. So why can't a parent come in to observe the youth group on occasion? They take this so seriously that one time, I needed to use the restroom in the church when I had arrived too early to pick them up and I was not allowed to. I had to drive across the street to the grocery store. In addition to this, they intend to take them a considerable distance, with whoever for drivers, in to a major city, inner city area, to minister to the people there. I am not comfortable with this. I asked them what they will do, and I was told they didn't really know yet, maybe construction stuff. Well, we have a Christian community place here for volunteer work, helping the elderly, disabled, etc. They are always looking for more help. We have a variety of things like that. This group has never ever done any sort of work within the community, or even within the church. I feel like they are telling the kids "this is us and our town, we better than others, our entire community has no problems or issues, we drive a long distance to find people to help." Its not a good message. When I was in church, as a teen, we did work around the church. A lot of us did volunteer work right there, in our community. The only community outreach this youth group has done is prison ministry, which I am not comfortable with, and now the thing down in the inner city. They say it takes over one and a half hours to get there. I am not comfortable with my child doing either. And they are always non-specific over what our children are supposed to do. They seem to feel they have the right to do whatever they want. I am sure these choices in ministry are specific to this church, this particular UMC. But my husband gave me a talking to last night and he is right. The red flags are there. I have been ignoring them and letting them pass because they are a church. But so much bad has happened in the past because parents let things go under the excuse that it was a church. Or a scout leader. Or a teacher..or some other "trusted" person or entity. So, we decided to let it go. Too bad too. I liked the kids there and all. The services were fine. But going to the services and not allowing the kids to go to youth group would be silly now that they have already started the youth group. I think we will simply find a new church and then stick to just the services and forget the youth group. Everything you are saying suggests a scary level of hypocrisy: extreme control of parents and extreme disregard for strangers. No one tells me that I can't be where my children are at any time. I'd be out the door and the leadership would know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Is there a possibility that you could personally infuse the youth group with better volunteer opportunities? I'm thinking of a little judo here--use their energy to flip them into a more local direction. For instance, "I think it's great that the kids are being encouraged to volunteer to help others. I'd be happy to organize and lead 'mission trips' in our immediate vicinity once a month for the next 6 months. We would serve dinner to the homeless at xxx shelter, make sandwiches and pass them out at YYY park, weed planter ZZZ here at church and plant it with veggies for the kids at AAA group home, etc. This month we will prune the roses at church. The kids will learn how to do this, and then receive a rose bush to plant at their own home or gift to someone else. That would be a real service to our church, and one less thing to pay the gardener for! Do you guys have any other great ideas? There are so many needs in our community, and I think that the kids will really enjoy themselves!" Great idea, but will only work with a non-ego driven leader. I hope she has one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janeway Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 I'm all for ministering to others and did a prison ministry myself for some years. That said, I would not be comfortable with only nominally known individuals transporting my minor kids hours away. That would be a huge no from me. Not sure how old your kids are but I just would not be ok with that. I've seen too much. Vagueness is a huge red flag to me. I don't want a liberal church (as I understand it) so I would attend one of the others rather than continue to opt out of trips you think are a bad idea. You will just get pressure over time. Reminds me of when my kids were little and we kept them with us in service. They were absolutely quiet and if they ever moved around, we took them out. This seemed to drive some people bonkers, both that we didn't use the "church ministry" (which eventually disintegrated into babysitting by showing Disney movies every week), and that I did not volunteer with the young kids. Young kids are not my thing, and I was with my own the entire week. As an empty nester, it might be something to consider, though I am better with older kids or old people, but not as a homeschooling mom of young children. That is the other thing, there is NO volunteer work around the church. Everything is elsewhere. Not even for adults. Everyone doing anything at the church is paid to be there. I think that sends a mixed up message. Almost like a...too good for volunteers at the church. Even the people who mow the lawn, help in the nursery, plant plants, and so on...they are all hired help at the church. The parishioners are not allowed to do any of it. Then they take the youth, which is anyone from 6th grade through 12th, to a city that far away, places states away, and there is even one trip a year to a country where they fly there, to mow lawns, paint walls, etc. They come back and talk about how grateful these poor people were that they were "ministering" to and how it made them feel good to help such needy people who do not have what we have. I think that is extremely arrogant. Maybe they have better. These people at the church are counting how much they have in material goods and are not even considering that perhaps these people have way more than us in real, like love, family, friends, community, etc. Anyway, we did decide to leave the church and I do not feel bad about it. It feels very confining and very fake. We will take a break. Then I might check out the Episcopal church in town. And perhaps not get involved in the youth group again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) That is the other thing, there is NO volunteer work around the church. Everything is elsewhere. Not even for adults. Everyone doing anything at the church is paid to be there. I think that sends a mixed up message. Almost like a...too good for volunteers at the church. Even the people who mow the lawn, help in the nursery, plant plants, and so on...they are all hired help at the church. The parishioners are not allowed to do any of it. Then they take the youth, which is anyone from 6th grade through 12th, to a city that far away, places states away, and there is even one trip a year to a country where they fly there, to mow lawns, paint walls, etc. They come back and talk about how grateful these poor people were that they were "ministering" to and how it made them feel good to help such needy people who do not have what we have. I think that is extremely arrogant. Maybe they have better. These people at the church are counting how much they have in material goods and are not even considering that perhaps these people have way more than us in real, like love, family, friends, community, etc. Anyway, we did decide to leave the church and I do not feel bad about it. It feels very confining and very fake. We will take a break. Then I might check out the Episcopal church in town. And perhaps not get involved in the youth group again. I agree with you. Paying everyone for every single thing in the church instead of utilizing volunteers is weird. I understand it for skilled trades, but not for cleaning up the weeds or maybe painting a wall (any experienced person can do this). Absolute no to the distant events without parents and especially to FLYING without parents. Why don't they help the needy and elderly on their own street or neighborhood? I agree with everything you are saying. I'm sorry. There have to be good ones out there but they are getting harder to find, it seems. We've never again had the wonderful experiences of the 90's. Unfortunately. Edited January 12, 2016 by TranquilMind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 But my husband gave me a talking to last night and he is right. The red flags are there. I have been ignoring them and letting them pass because they are a church. Egads. Sounds like a mess. Sounds like incompetence intertwined with delusions of grandeur, securely strapped blinders, and attraction for tragedy porn. You gave them a pass because they're a church. Because churches are supposed to be trustworthy. But they're no different than any other organization. Some are run well, others corruptly, and everything in between. There's no magic power that protects churches from incompetence or idiocy, and if they look defective, they are defective. I'd find other resources for your kids' social and civic needs/responsibilities/privileges, and don't think twice about shaking the dust of that crazy place from your feet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 You know, another thing about UMC churches that might make you want to stick it out... part of the Methodist philosophy has ministers change their congregations pretty routinely - every few years typically. This is so that the church stays close to the UMC philosophy, not one leader. And so that the leader stays close to the church as a whole, not a specific flock. There are exceptions made... but this was the ideal back when my mother was a children's minister. I assume it's the same. In other words, at some point in the not so distant future, you're likely to have a new head minister and there will inevitably be shifts in church culture as a result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahlanne Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Egads. Sounds like a mess. Sounds like incompetence intertwined with delusions of grandeur, securely strapped blinders, and attraction for tragedy porn. You gave them a pass because they're a church. Because churches are supposed to be trustworthy. But they're no different than any other organization. Some are run well, others corruptly, and everything in between. There's no magic power that protects churches from incompetence or idiocy, and if they look defective, they are defective. I'd find other resources for your kids' social and civic needs/responsibilities/privileges, and don't think twice about shaking the dust of that crazy place from your feet. Albeto and I don't normally see eye to eye on Christianity topics but I have to agree with her here, somewhat. Even if there is nothing really wrong with the church, if you feel uneasiness for any reason even if just because it isn't a great fit for your family, you shouldn't give them a pass just because they are a church. Listen to yourself and trust your gut. Maybe it is just as simple as its not for you or it could be more. Hopefully not but don't take a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Have you considered attending the meetings for whatever committee is in charge of the volunteering and/or the church budget and voicing your questions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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