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Practicing NFP when you hyper ovulate?


lea_lpz
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Hi---

 

After getting pregnant on the pill, having a miscarriage at 14 weeks, and just having general side effects such as low libido and PMDD and lots of rapid unexplained weight gain, I felt like I was done with the pill. This was March 2013. Three months later I conceived my rainbow baby, after gaining energy, losing weight and regaining my libido (thus baby) and decided not to go back on the pill after dd was born March 2014.

 

I read Taking Charge of Your Fertility and felt I had a good handle on my cycle, though I didn't chart my basal am temp. I did track my period, check my cervix mucus and I tend to experience ovulatory cramping and occasionally bleeding (light) so I thought all was well and my cycle was fairly predictable.

 

This all worked for a year. Maybe I got over confident but fast forward to last July. I remember expecting ovulation to happen on time, I had abstained a good 5 days pre the "big O" from sex and then I remember being at my kids swim lessons, feeling the cramping, going to the bathro and having light bleeding and thinking, ok, I am going to ovulate. All signs pointed to yes, so again avoided the next few days and thought all was well.....

 

Then I was a good 5 days late. So I took my pregnancy test, thought perhaps something is just wonky since my 15 month old weaned a few months before, and got a very faint positive. Still didn't believe this was happening but ok. Another week went by and I decided to go ahead and do a test with my dr. It was positive. I thought ok how's that even possible? We didn't have sex at all near or on ovulation.

 

Fast foreword to my first on appointment. I was based on the first day of my last period 9 weeks. They did an in office sonogram. Turns out I was only 7 weeks, with twins.

 

So I never saw any red flags of ovulation at that point at all! I mean I wasn't looking out for them either at that point but really nothing.

 

Now I'm wondering about whether I should continue NFP or dh will be getting a vasactomy after the twins are born. We already have 3 children together and my dh has a son.

 

Anyone have any ideas on what happened or use nfp and hyper ovulate?

 

I have no family history of twins and had no idea I would conceive twins. They are fraternal, so this increases my over all odds of ovulating more than one egg in a cycle.

 

My twins are due march 2016.

Edited by lea_lpz
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If your ovulation isn't super predictable you really need to be checking cervical mucous AND doing basal body temperature to be more accurate. I'd also recommend using a backup birth control like condoms if you're not positive you've already ovulated.

 

Natural family planning works great if you're fastidious with it, but nothing but full abstinence is 100% obviously. I've personally found it works better for trying to *get* pregnant than avoid pregnancy, and we use backup methods because I'm extremely fertile as well. But I know with certainty each time I conceive and usually before the test does - it's great for familiarizing yourself with your body.

 

If you are fully done having children and not opposed to birth control, yes I'd get a vasectomy. If you wanted more kids down the road or had moral objections to I'd recommend the least invasive birth control you can stand. For us that's rain jackets ;)

Edited by Arctic Mama
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Well, the only way to confirm ovulation is with basal body temp.

So, while the other signs are nice and helpful, if you weren't charting your temp, all bets are off imo.

I'd think you are fine to use NFP as long as you are committed to it in its entirety (BBT and at least one other sign).

BTW, congrats on the twins!

ETA: Cervical mucus and cervix position can let you know that ovulation may be about to happen. But only temp can confirm that ovulation did in fact happen. 

 

Edited by barnwife
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Congratulations on your twins!

 

I was overly confident about my regular cycle and cervical indications of fertility and now I have a 7-week old. It did work for six years though. I agree with the others that temperatures are important for greater accuracy. If you are definitely done and have no religious objections to other forms of birth control, I'd definitely use a barrier method or have you DH get a vasectomy.

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We kept getting pregnant doing NFP. We gave that up. The withdrawal/pullout method has worked great for us though for the last few years. :)

Pretty sure that, statistically, that is not a great birth control option.

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NFP has worked for us. Plus backup with a diaphragm if there's any mucous at all. Caya diaphragm is now available in the US since the old standby was discontinued several years ago. Although I had trouble ordering it even with a script so I just bought through eBay.

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Pretty sure that, statistically, that is not a great birth control option.

 

Yep, but yet I've know people who have used it for years and years, even decades and have prevented pregnancy successfully.

 

My husband's pretty in tune with his body, I guess. :) 

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The month I got pregnant with my twins, I ovulated twice, and therefor could not read my chart to save my life.  It was all messed up.  I personally wouldn't try to read BBT if you hyper ovulate naturally.  I was on Clomid, but even still, we were extreme birth controllers after twins. :laugh:

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We kept getting pregnant doing NFP.  We gave that up.  The withdrawal/pullout method has worked great for us though for the last few years. :)

 

 

Pretty sure that, statistically, that is not a great birth control option.

 

Well, actually....

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Economy/sex-study-pull-withdrawal-method-rivals-condoms-birth/story?id=7688558

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Very interesting. Thanks for posting. 

 

 

I heard from several posters here over the years that withdrawing has worked very well for them over the years, only getting pregnant when planning to. Same in real life too.  

 

 

Also, it is really, really nice that DH is responsible for things now rather than me being stuck with temping, observing, etc. :P 

 

 

I have condom allergies (horrible hives) except to super expensive ones. Hormonal stuff is not an option with all my hormone imbalances, so pull out is what we've decided works best in our situation.

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Pretty sure that, statistically, that is not a great birth control option.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/09/14/sunday-review/unplanned-pregnancies.html?_r=2

 

10 year failure rate of withdrawal:

-92% failure with typical use

-34% failure with perfect use

 

10 year failure rate of condoms:

-91% failure with typical use

-40% failure with perfect use

 

It would be interesting to see what the failure rates of using withdrawal and condoms would be.

 

If you have never looked at the NYT chart I linked to, please do so. Ten year failure rates really make the effectiveness of various methods more clear than one year failure rates. It makes it obvious that if a woman is fertile and sexually active for 20-30 years, unless she uses something almost impossible to misuse (IUD, sterilization, or implants) she will statistically end up with 1-3 kids, even if using the pill/patch/injections/ring.

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I have condom allergies (horrible hives) except to super expensive ones. Hormonal stuff is not an option with all my hormone imbalances, so pull out is what we've decided works best in our situation.

I'm allergic to regular condoms and would need to use lamb skin, or at least that's what I used 10 years ago when that was an issue.

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My period when I tracked was fairly regular. I averaged a 28 day cycle with about a 5 day range if seeing occasionally 27 days or up to 31 in the course of the year I tracked

with well over half being 28 days and the rest being generally close to there.

 

I think my only wild card is the cycles I hyperovulate, so that's what I am most interested in trying to figure out---how does that impact my success if I do commit to BBT and tracking symptoms / cycle / mucus.

 

Looking back in retrospect my cycle when I conceived the twins was a bit unusual and followed a pattern I see about every 6 months or so, usually ovulatory bleeding, with cramps, and a longer than usual cycle, followed by a heavier than usual period.

 

I conceived the twins naturally.

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Is he sponge-worthy?

Please explain. This sounds interesting.

 

I think we're both exceptionally fertile. Based on how easily we've conceived trying or not my guess is his little guys just keep swimming and my eggs live a good 48 hours.

 

We've only half heartedly tried for 2/5 pregnancies, no charting or anything like that, and this is before I did nfp.

 

I'm only 31, and I have conceived 4 babies in 3 years. Clearly we can't keep going at this rate.

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I hate taking hormones so I feel you, but I have to say, my eyebrows raised quite a bit when I read from "NFP" to "expecting twins".

 

I just do not think it is that realistic. My partner has a vasectomy. It's been working fabulously. :D

 

 

 

I'm only 31, and I have conceived 4 babies in 3 years. Clearly we can't keep going at this rate.

 

That is not unusually fertile. Infertility requires a lot of help and support so you hear about it a lot. Also, women are having babies older and older so it seems like infertility is going up. However, it is usually not hard to get pregnant for women 30 and under and if you've had a baby, for women 35 and under. In countries where there is limited access to birth control and most people marry before the age of 29, it is extremely common to have baby after baby until you get an IUD or hit menopause or die, and yes, they try NFP but it is not very effective.

 

I used to think it would be hard to get pregnant too. But it turns out that it's more like, if you're infertile, you're probably really infertile and need a lot of help, but if you're not infertile, you're going to get pregnant if you have sex a few times a month. Anyway, all my cousins got pregnant first try, several of them while on birth control without planning. Infertility is real but you don't have it so you are going to have to work at preventing those babies if you are not ready to care for them.

 

Get him fixed. It will solve many problems.

 

Also, congratulations on the twins and best of luck during your pregnancy and during the birth!

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I was charting my temps, because I had PCOS and was trying to regulate my cycle and see if I could get pg without interventions.  The very first time I had a 'normal' looking cycle, with a nice temperature rise, it just stayed up.  Yep, pg.  And the deed was done a good 5 days before i ovulated.  Some of those swimmers just last a long time - 5 days is the outside, but not a sure thing if you're avoiding.  I hear girl ones live longer...  I did, indeed, have a girl with that pregnancy.

 

Congrats on the twins!  I have twins too, from my first pregnancy, which because of the PCOS I had to go through years of treatment for...

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I'm afraid I don't have the experience to answer your question, NFP works OK for me but I'm actually not all that fertile--most of the tracking I have done was while TTC. 

 

I did want to say congratulations though! Twins sounds super exciting (along with a whole lot of work ;) )

Edited by maize
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I'm allergic to regular condoms and would need to use lamb skin, or at least that's what I used 10 years ago when that was an issue.

 

Yes, only lamb skin here too. $$ We've tried latex and non latex.

 

 

(I'm actually allergic to my husband's sperm too (again horrible hives), so no matter what bc option we chose, we'd have to do withdraw or condoms anyways.)

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OP, you really need to temp, not just watch fertility signs.  I have naturally conceived twins- I knew I ovulated... twice!  I actually felt it on both sides and knew ahead of DTD that it was a possibility.  I use NFP/charting, and sometimes I do ovulate twice.  SOmetimes my charts are wonky, too.  Sometimes your body gears up to ovulate- all signs point to it, and for whatever reason it just stops and you do not get a temp increase.  Other times I have had little ups in my chart that could indicate ovulation, but until my temp is 98.2+, I do not count that.  There have been a few times that my chart would have said 'safe' when in reality it wasn't and I ovulated a few days later.  I'm not sure if I have a little bug or what, but if my normaly coverline is 97.5-97.7. then it goes to 98 for several days you might think it's 'safe' (and some on-line charts say it is!), then I will ovulate and it goes to 98.4+.  I've watched this happen at least twice this year, and if I was not so careful I am sure I'd be PG by now.  It may be that I ovulate on one side, and then a few days later on the other side?  Whatever it is, I know if we are going to keep using this as our main BC method, I have to carefully chart and temp. 

 

Following your twins (congrats, BTW!), I"d just insist on using condoms.  We use the lambskin ones and I don't care how much they cost, it's cheaper than a baby! 

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I was charting my temps, because I had PCOS and was trying to regulate my cycle and see if I could get pg without interventions. The very first time I had a 'normal' looking cycle, with a nice temperature rise, it just stayed up. Yep, pg. And the deed was done a good 5 days before i ovulated. Some of those swimmers just last a long time - 5 days is the outside, but not a sure thing if you're avoiding. I hear girl ones live longer... I did, indeed, have a girl with that pregnancy.

 

Congrats on the twins! I have twins too, from my first pregnancy, which because of the PCOS I had to go through years of treatment for...

I have a 5+ day girl as well. I was charting and tracking temps TTC not avoid, but I didn't think there was any way I'd be pregnant that month. That was our first. (ETA: well, I had a miscarriage prior and had been temping and charting for a year.) I am very thankful for birth control options in modern society!

 

Random for the fancy condom people--Amazon has good deals on them. But the lamb skin has serious expiration dates. Friends of ours (she's even a nurse, not 16 yr olds who doesn't know how to use one correctly) have #4 they believe happened due to an expired condom.

Edited by zoobie
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Please explain. This sounds interesting.

 

I think we're both exceptionally fertile. Based on how easily we've conceived trying or not my guess is his little guys just keep swimming and my eggs live a good 48 hours.

 

We've only half heartedly tried for 2/5 pregnancies, no charting or anything like that, and this is before I did nfp.

 

I'm only 31, and I have conceived 4 babies in 3 years. Clearly we can't keep going at this rate.

If I had conceived twins while using a particular birth control method, I think I wouldn't use that method anymore.

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Serious question for those who rely on condoms...  how?  IME 1/5 - 1/10 condoms breaks when new and worn correctly.  Do others not have that experience?

 

I remember once watching Bill Maher and him commenting he'd never had a condom break in his life, and when I scoffed that it seemed impossible, the friend watching with me said "He must be really small!" because frequent breakage was her experience too.

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I have a 5+ day girl as well. I was charting and tracking temps TTC not avoid, but I didn't think there was any way I'd be pregnant that month. That was our first. (ETA: well, I had a miscarriage prior and had been temping and charting for a year.) I am very thankful for birth control options in modern society!

 

Random for the fancy condom people--Amazon has good deals on them. But the lamb skin has serious expiration dates. Friends of ours (she's even a nurse, not 16 yr olds who doesn't know how to use one correctly) have #4 they believe happened due to an expired condom.

My youngest is a 5 days pre ovulation baby. And NO cervical mucous. Totally dry. Even at the cervix. It seems the "rules" for safety in TCYF are much less strict than the rules in other methods. Something I didn't know at the time. TCYF says two dry days in a row = safe, but obviously for me that isn't true. Had I been careful to avoid for 5 days before suspected ovulation that would ahve been safe. Oh well, he's my favorite kid, so I'm glad I didn't know. But it makes me angry that she acts like cervical mucus is the end all be all of predicting, because for some of us it is NOT!

 

If I go back to NFP again I'll use the method that uses a fertility monitor and is more strict. Marquette, I believe? (currently have IUD to help with anemia and, truth be told, because it was the only way to prevent DH getting a vasectomy and I want another baby.)

 

But anyway, I bet you didn't ovulate the first time, when you thought you did. Sometimes, especially in those early cycles after a baby, when nursing, etc you can have long periods where you almost ovulate but don't, and if you aren't charting temps you won't realize it. Then when you ovulate later than that you get caught!

 

Oh, and some methods DO take into account multiple ovulations. But the idea is that true hyperovulation is when two eggs are released within a few days of each other. Not a week or more. So that's why you have to wait a few days after a confirmed ovulation to be safe again. So temperature rise signals ovulation, then you wait a few more days in case of an additional egg being released. But again, it's within hours, not weeks. 

 

 

Edited by ktgrok
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Serious question for those who rely on condoms...  how?  IME 1/5 - 1/10 condoms breaks when new and worn correctly.  Do others not have that experience?

 

I remember once watching Bill Maher and himcommenting he'd never had a condom break in his life, and when I scoffed that it seemed impossible, the friend watching with me said "He must be really small!" because frequent breakage was her experience too.

 

Not that high a percentage, but we do have breakage. Are you using lubricated ones? Leaving extra room at the tip? Getting the air out? 

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Hmm, I think I've only ever had one condom tear.

 

Anyway - I've used Billings for BC with no issues, and it doesn't include temps.  But, it's fairly conservative.  Also - while it may be a self-promotion thing, they really emphasise learning from a qualified instructor, which includes looking at your charting together near the beginning.

 

I would also say that when nursing, things are much harder to interpret, and now as I am getting older that is also the case - I am often not sure if I've ovulated or not.

 

If I were really sure I was done with kids and I was younger, I'd go for a surgical solution, either myself or dh.

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Serious question for those who rely on condoms... how? IME 1/5 - 1/10 condoms breaks when new and worn correctly. Do others not have that experience?

 

I remember once watching Bill Maher and him commenting he'd never had a condom break in his life, and when I scoffed that it seemed impossible, the friend watching with me said "He must be really small!" because frequent breakage was her experience too.

Proper fitting condoms makes difference. I'd say we have had one slip about six times in our marriage (and I'm not always fertile then, it's usually from DH lingering too long after the fact ;) ) and we have *never* had a condom break in ten years. Edited by Arctic Mama
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We've used condoms for years and never had a break (knock on wood) or had one slip off. We always buy the same brand that we know fit my husband well. I think getting a good fit, not to loose, not to tight, is important.

 

That's very interesting about the ten year failure rates. I always thought one year failure rates were a useless statistic. Avoiding pregnancy for a year doesn't mean much when you're wanting to avoid for the rest of your fertility.

 

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That's very interesting about the ten year failure rates. I always thought one year failure rates were a useless statistic. Avoiding pregnancy for a year doesn't mean much when you're wanting to avoid for the rest of your fertility.

 

Yeah, it's hard to imagine that someone could take the pill at the same time every single day (important for some times, if I remember correctly) for ten years without missing and without taking any drugs (such as antibiotics, I think) that interfere with effectiveness. Hence the typical failure rate leading to approximately one pregnancy every ten years.

 

This makes me wonder what age groups the failure rates are based on, since teenagers and 20 somethings are more fertile than older women. If the rates are based largely on women over 25 or 30, the true failure rate for teens and early 20s would be even higher.

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I think with the pill, you are meant to abstain or use another method if you forget or have some other reason to think its effectivness could be compromised.

 

As far as the stats - I find the cultural stuff around them so interesting.  I know many people were taught that NFP, withdrawal, and so on are not effective, and its surprising how many people react really strongly if you say otherwise.  There seems to be something else tied up in it.  I read a horrified article once by a writer at The Guardian, who had found out that use of the Pill was decreasing and there was also an increase in young women using aps to do NFP.  She saw this as an anti-feminist trend, I think she felt that any kind of gambling with the possibility of pregnancy was very very dangerous.  I've encountered similar attitudes in some other women of that generation (baby boomers.)  I feel like they see women's fertility as something that needs to be (and can be) kept firmly in hand.

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Thank you Kinsa and blue goat! This is why I asked here. It's hard to find someone to have a conversation about making nfp more effective when they look at you like "of course you got pregnant doing that you whack a doodle! That's what people did in the old days. Backward, anti-feminist women."

 

I think understanding my body is empowering and their really are unpleasant side effects for I believe most women with long term b/c use ie the pill. I mean how could taking hormones for 20+ years not negatively impact you?

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Don't you know? Fertility is a DISEASE that requires constant medication! *sarcasm*

 

I actually believe the opposite from that author. I find it empowering to women that they learn to work WITH their bodies' natural cycles and not have to depend on a drug in order to be in control. It releases women from the enslavement of constant medication. What can be more empowering than that? (Says the 20-yr NFPer.)

I agree completely. I have learned my body so much more thoroughly thanks to NFP, and have used it to get pregnant six times (first baby I was on nuvaring and conceived, then now afford). I knew every single time I conceived - I could feel it and fertility signals confirmed it before the tests did. We do use backup methods when we don't want a baby out of convenience but I haven't had it fail yet in terms of timing. We just don't like abstaining when I'm potentially fertile and I refuse to take birth control or implant it.

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Serious question for those who rely on condoms...  how?  IME 1/5 - 1/10 condoms breaks when new and worn correctly.  Do others not have that experience?

 

I remember once watching Bill Maher and him commenting he'd never had a condom break in his life, and when I scoffed that it seemed impossible, the friend watching with me said "He must be really small!" because frequent breakage was her experience too.

 

One slip off, probably like the 3rd or 4th time we ever had sex, and never a single breakage over here. I don't think size is the difference, though condoms do come in different sizes. We also avoid the ultra-thin ones. Granted we have only used them for about 3 years cumulatively, but, I've never understood why people have such a strong reaction to condoms like they're doomed to failure. Yes they are slightly more ineffective than the pill theoretically, but, they're pretty good when used properly. And considering the number of pill babies (and even an IUD baby!) I've known of, it doesn't sound like the hormonal methods are 100% either.

 

As to the OP, this is why I use condoms. NFP is wonderful for totally regular and predictable women. Women have used it their entire lives successfully. But there's no way possible it would work for me with periods ranging from 3 to 8 weeks ever since I was a teenager. Like others have said though, the temperature is quite important to track. I can feel when I am ovulating (hyper aware of my body, I'm one of those people that truly does KNOW they're pregnant within 24 hours of conception), but my pre-ovulation symptoms can come at all sorts of times and speeds before the actual ovulation occurs and aren't, by themselves, reliable.

 

We are against hormonal birth control for moral/religious reasons and we hope to have a large family, but when/if we are done having kids DH WILL be getting a vasectomy, that much has been decided lol. 

Edited by abba12
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One slip off, probably like the 3rd or 4th time we ever had sex, and never a single breakage over here. I don't think size is the difference, though condoms do come in different sizes. We also avoid the ultra-thin ones. Granted we have only used them for about 3 years cumulatively, but, I've never understood why people have such a strong reaction to condoms like they're doomed to failure. Yes they are slightly more ineffective than the pill theoretically, but, they're pretty good when used properly. And considering the number of pill babies (and even an IUD baby!) I've known of, it doesn't sound like the hormonal methods are 100% either.

 

As to the OP, this is why I use condoms. NFP is wonderful for totally regular and predictable women. Women have used it their entire lives successfully. But there's no way possible it would work for me with periods ranging from 3 to 8 weeks ever since I was a teenager. Like others have said though, the temperature is quite important to track. I can feel when I am ovulating (hyper aware of my body, I'm one of those people that truly does KNOW they're pregnant within 24 hours of conception), but my pre-ovulation symptoms can come at all sorts of times and speeds before the actual ovulation occurs and aren't, by themselves, reliable.

 

We are against hormonal birth control for moral/religious reasons and we hope to have a large family, but when/if we are done having kids DH WILL be getting a vasectomy, that much has been decided lol. 

 

I do agree that NFP doesn't work well for everyone.  Most of the research on its effectivness has been done on people with fairly normal cycles.  I don't think that means totally by the book, but it does mean for some people who have an irregularity it may be much less effective.  That can happen for women at particular times - as I'm getting older, my cycles can be really weird.  And, I think some people are just not as good at reading their bodies signs.

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Please explain. This sounds interesting.

 

I think we're both exceptionally fertile. Based on how easily we've conceived trying or not my guess is his little guys just keep swimming and my eggs live a good 48 hours.

 

We've only half heartedly tried for 2/5 pregnancies, no charting or anything like that, and this is before I did nfp.

 

I'm only 31, and I have conceived 4 babies in 3 years. Clearly we can't keep going at this rate.

 

 

I'm curious at what age your maternal side hits menopause.  I believe, someone correct me, you are most likely to hyperovulate the closer you get to menopause.

How much I would trust NFP alone is dependent on how important it is to us (as a couple) to not get pregnant.  NFP can work well for me... My body screams, "Hello!  EGG!"  However, a few months ago - 5 day before ov. and "safe" I ovulated early and it did, indeed, result in a pregnancy.  Late ovulation is easy to predict, early, not so much.  

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