A couple of updates (long)

[nature girl]

Hello! I've been off the boards for awhile, trying to get some answers and figure out what steps to take next. For those who remember, in my last post several people were suspecting some of my daughter's behaviors might be due to FASD or RAD. We took her to a psychiatrist who specializes in FASD and ADHD, and he told me that from what I described there's really no reason to suspected it, that emotional regulation issues are really inherent in almost all ADHD-Combined kids at some level (it's all part of executive function), and that her behaviors are much less extreme than many (solely) ADHD kids he's seen. Since then I've watched some lectures by Russel Barkley that have said the same thing, he says emotional dysregulation should actually be in DSM-IV, and that 65%-84% of kids with ADHD have ODD...That meds, especially the non-stimulants, can be really helpful in managing the issue because they help with EF/impulse control. (We're still not really considering meds at this point, though.) I think some of the issue with the discussions I've had here is that the people trying to press on me that there might be something else going on have kids whose ADHD either isn't as severe, or who have Inattentive, which is a completely different ballgame.

 

Anyway, in another update, about a month ago I started giving my daughter a supplement that includes DMG and TMG, as well as some B-vitamins (Vermont Behavior Balance DMG), and I'm really seeing a difference in her behavior. Things aren't perfect, she still is defiant at times, but much less so. (Her inattention is about the same, but because she's better able to keep on a task without getting frustrated quite as quickly, it's really improved her schooling as well.) Apparently DMG and TMG are amino acids that enhance neurotransmitter production, and help transport oxygen to cells, which increases their efficiency. I've primarily seen it used for ASD kids, but I've read a bit about its use for ADHD behaviors as well. Interestingly too, since we started it we've had a couple of other changes that may just be coincidence...First, she's now dry almost every night, actually wakes up when she has to go, where before she would stay dry only when she hadn't drunk much milk with dinner, NEVER woke up, even sometimes after she wet her pajamas. Also, for the first time she seems to be developing some inner speech, which is huge. She used to talk non-stop during pretend play or crafting or whatever, and now we have periods of silence for several minutes at a time. Coincidence or brain changes? I don't know...

Lastly, Anna actually tried some of my coffee the other day and liked it, and I figured What the hay, I'd see if it had any effect. I gave her a whole mug (probably about 2 cups of medium-strength coffee) and it had NO effect on her whatsoever. Didn't affect hyperactivity or increase attention, also didn't cause jitters. What does this mean? I have no idea...maybe it means stimulants won't be effective for her if we ever do try, or that she'd need a really high dose. Has anyone read more on the effect of caffeine that could explain the non-effect?
 

Edited January 5, 2016 by Anna's Mom

[maize]

Thanks for the update!

 

I'd like to know what the supplement is that you are using.

[nature girl]

It's Vermont Behavior Balance DMG. It's a little pricey, but I only give 1/2 T once a day, and the bottle is only half gone after over a month of use.

 

ETA: This is a flavored liquid, but they also have tablets (Link) for kids who can swallow them, which are less expensive per dose.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Anna's Mom

[PeterPan]

Hi AM, I'm so excited for you to have found some things that are helping her!!!  We have the wetting issue here too, so my eyes definitely perked up at your success there.  That's fabulous.  And, you know, it's just really good to have *eliminated* some things as probable explanations.  I really don't think the issue with the boards and explanations is differences in severity, honestly.  I've met people from here on the boards, and there's some pretty serious, serious stuff going on.  I think it's just the limitations of an online approach.  We're only seeing little snippets of things you disclose and then we're saying wow, that reminds us of something we experienced or that could be a red flag for such and such.  My ds has an ADHD-combined diagnosis as part of his mix and has the behavioral challenges and wetting, and for him the label pushes over into ASD.  That doesn't mean *yours* does but just that you can walk down paths and go no, that's not the explanation right now.  But I will say, I don't consider ANY explanation definitive and complete at this age.  You would not BELIEVE the number of kids who have rolling diagnoses, where first round they get one label, then 3-4 years later add another, then later add another.  At each eval my ds has had, the labels have shifted.  We're now at ASD level 2.  The first psych, a year and a half ago, just said ADHD-inattentive.  It was a stupid, utterly incomplete explanation and analysis, but I'm just saying it happens.  

 

Yes, she's got the caffeine flip of ADHD, which is why she's not hyperactive after 2 cups of coffee, oy.  So are you going to put her on meds?  I seem to recall that was the very first thing people suggested to you when you started telling about the challenges.  :)  Or does the DMG improve the ADHD symptoms?  I'm googling DMG right now, but it looks very complex.  Looks like beans are a good food source, so that would be another way to approach it.  Anyways, I don't think ANY of these helpful things (DMG, neurofeedback, Therapeutic Listening, Interactive Metronome, Cogmed, etc.) are ever enough by themselves.  It's more like we try this and get a percentage, add another thing and get a percentage, and after a while we start to feel like we have enough of those percentages adding up that we have a whole child or pretty close to a whole child.  But I also think it's reasonable to say ok meds would give us 50% and we'd use DMG and such and such to get us to 95% or wherever we want to be.  That can work.  

 

Are you giving her coffee every day now, or was it just for that trial?  I was just curious, because obviously that would skew what you're seeing from the DMG.  That's still really curious that it would affect wetting.  Did your DMG supplement have magnesium?  We've had stories of magnesium helping wetting in some kids, and I read some DMG supplements have magnesium.  

 

To me, the less talking would seem a little odd.  She's young and can't necessarily self-advocate and say how she feels.  She could feel foggy or something from it and wouldn't have the words to say.  But then in our house it's always the opposite, where we're looking FOR words, not to shut them off, lol.

 

Well good, I'm excited for you!  Does it affect your plans for homeschooling?  Are you continuing?  I forget, had school been on the table due to your frustrations?  If she's still having the ADHD symptoms with her schooling, what are you going to do about that?  Are you considering CBT or other therapies for the behavior and ADHD stuff?  

[PeterPan]

It's Vermont Behavior Balance DMG. It's a little pricey, but I only give 1/2 T once a day, and the bottle is only half gone after over a month of use.

 

ETA: This is a flavored liquid, but they also have tablets (Link) for kids who can swallow them, which are less expensive per dose.

Yup, there's magnesium in there.  Well that's good though!  Any improvement in wetting is always good!  :)

[nature girl]

Yes, she's got the caffeine flip of ADHD, which is why she's not hyperactive after 2 cups of coffee, oy.  So are you going to put her on meds?  I seem to recall that was the very first thing people suggested to you when you started telling about the challenges.   :)  Or does the DMG improve the ADHD symptoms?  I'm googling DMG right now, but it looks very complex.  Looks like beans are a good food source, so that would be another way to approach it.  Anyways, I don't think ANY of these helpful things (DMG, neurofeedback, Therapeutic Listening, Interactive Metronome, Cogmed, etc.) are ever enough by themselves.  It's more like we try this and get a percentage, add another thing and get a percentage, and after a while we start to feel like we have enough of those percentages adding up that we have a whole child or pretty close to a whole child.  But I also think it's reasonable to say ok meds would give us 50% and we'd use DMG and such and such to get us to 95% or wherever we want to be.  That can work.  

 

Are you giving her coffee every day now, or was it just for that trial?  I was just curious, because obviously that would skew what you're seeing from the DMG.  That's still really curious that it would affect wetting.  Did your DMG supplement have magnesium?  We've had stories of magnesium helping wetting in some kids, and I read some DMG supplements have magnesium.  

 

I've only given coffee that once, because although it didn't have negative side-effects it didn't do anything positive either. So the change has only come after the DMG, we've been using Omega 3's, magnesium (higher doses than are in the DMG), essential oils and probiotics for many months now, as well as other supplements I've since ditched because they did nothing, and nothing has had anywhere close to this much of an effect. It could be coincidence, but the effect was so sudden, literally within a couple of days of starting, that it feels like it must be associated. (We also do tend to eat a lot of beans, but have never gotten this effect. I'm assuming the amount of DMG/TMG is much lower.)

 

 

To me, the less talking would seem a little odd.  She's young and can't necessarily self-advocate and say how she feels.  She could feel foggy or something from it and wouldn't have the words to say.  But then in our house it's always the opposite, where we're looking FOR words, not to shut them off, lol.

 

Well, apparently part of ADHD is that the inner voice develops much later in these kids, it's another aspect of EF. She doesn't seem foggy at all, still likes to talk, and is more on-task than she ever has been, but there are times I'll see her playing contentedly without talking, which never happened before. ETA: The silence is kind of amazing! I mean, I'll wonder where she is and look up and find she's still right across the coffee table from me. It's such a pleasant change!

 

Well good, I'm excited for you!  Does it affect your plans for homeschooling?  Are you continuing?  I forget, had school been on the table due to your frustrations?  If she's still having the ADHD symptoms with her schooling, what are you going to do about that?  Are you considering CBT or other therapies for the behavior and ADHD stuff?  

 

We did consider PS, did a lot of talking about it and actually talked to a K teacher and psychiatrist at the school. But in the end we realized our reasons for considering it were primarily selfish (i.e., to save my sanity), and not because it's best for her. I still think, because of the way she learns and the supports she'd need, she won't be able to succeed. K is 8 hours, with 1 recess...Here we do 10 minutes on, 30+ minutes off playing/jumping/running/hiking, which just isn't feasible in the school system. Without that play, she gets completely distracted by anything in the vicinity. So having to focus around other kids and the bustle of the classroom would be virtually impossible for her at this point. They also don't have special ed classes in our district, we'd have to drive her out of district...Here they'd be able to get us an aide as part of a 504 or IEP, and she'd probably get a pull-out for 30 minutes of in-school OT a week, but I feel that's just not enough. Not off the table forever of course, but at least for now. Plus she's become much more pleasant to be around, and schooling her is less frustrating because her own frustration has decreased.

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by Anna's Mom

[PeterPan]

We just had another thread on ADHD meds and Heathermomster, I think, posted an article that was very pro-med talking about meds.  It basically said they're having to ramp the meds WAY up, much higher than what the labels and manufacturers suggest, to get results.  That might be what your 2 cups of coffee suggestions.  Not that she won't get results, but that it would take a shocking amount.  Since you had that appointment with the p-doc, he would be one to follow through with meds if you wanted to try.  That's some pretty serious ADHD you're describing, with 10 minutes on, 30 off.  Did you say she's in anything physical?  You tried OT and weren't happen with how it went, right?  Maybe some gymnastics or sports with crashing?  

[nature girl]

We just had another thread on ADHD meds and Heathermomster, I think, posted an article that was very pro-med talking about meds.  It basically said they're having to ramp the meds WAY up, much higher than what the labels and manufacturers suggest, to get results.  That might be what your 2 cups of coffee suggestions.  Not that she won't get results, but that it would take a shocking amount.  Since you had that appointment with the p-doc, he would be one to follow through with meds if you wanted to try.  That's some pretty serious ADHD you're describing, with 10 minutes on, 30 off.  Did you say she's in anything physical?  You tried OT and weren't happen with how it went, right?  Maybe some gymnastics or sports with crashing?  

 

We can do longer if we're working on subjects she enjoys (like reading, music, hands-on science or art) but math has a 10-15 minute limit, and even that is a strain. Writing is also about 10 minutes, unless she's dictating. She can sit and listen to read-alouds for a very long time, an hour or more, without getting restless (she's always been that way), and can read for 20-30 minutes before getting tired, unless she's really entranced by the book. But with anything she's not interested in, she doesn't have much tolerance.

 

If it would take a high dosage, I'd be really hesitant to start, especially because I think kids tend to develop a tolerance over time, and we'd eventually reach a level where we couldn't go any higher. So I'd rather save meds until she really needs them, when we need to do more sustained schooling or decide to start her in PS. We do still have her in OT, just because she enjoys it (not because I think it's doing her any good) but I do want to switch over to gymnastics within the next month or two, mainly because of her DCD, which I think would probably be much better served by gymnastics. We still do heavy work when she seems to need it, but honestly we were going from needing it every couple hours or so to rarely needing it unless she's overly tired or gets overly excited by something. This is also a change since the DMG...

[nature girl]

Oh, and as for CBT, I do think she needs some kind of behavioral therapy, but I just don't think she's ready for it. Whenever I try to discuss her feelings calmly, whether it's Zones or just general conversation, she starts having "behaviors," getting restless, climbing on things, falling on the floor...She's said many times she HATES talking about feelings. I'm not sure where that's coming from, we've always tried to talk about them neutrally, like there are no bad feelings, but it really makes her uncomfortable. I'm hoping she'll grow out of that so that we can start soon, but at this point I don't want to spend $150 or more a week for her to be rolling around the floor of a therapist's office.

[PeterPan]

My ds had a really bad meltdown after the OT (who had just taken the Zones workshop and thought she'd try things on him) did some Zones things with him for a few minutes.  Like it was HORRIBLE, with him pulling out my hair, refusing to get in the car, awful.  I just don't think some kids are ready for it at this stage.  I think there is going to be stuff we can do, but that's not it.  We've hired a behaviorist (you're looking for a BCBA=board certified behavioral analyst) and she's going to be helping us.  She's coming today to talk about her actual plan and what she wants to do.  I really don't know, so we'll see.  I know her written report had some things.  I'm just saying that would be a way to look, since that's someone where it's ALL they do.  And really, the interventions are pretty much the same, whether you call it ADHD with social delay or ASD, either way they get the same social skills materials, etc.  

 

So a behaviorist would be something you could look for.  I'm going to have to read about that DMG more at some point.  It sounds like it's very complex though, with some kids with SN being *over* methylaters and some being under.  I have no clue what I'm talking about, lol.

[nature girl]

I'd think, if you're willing to try the DMG, you'd be able to tell right away whether it had a positive or negative effect. And the effects are only temporary. IDK, I sound like I'm selling the stuff, lol! But really we saw the change within a couple of days, it was that immediate and dramatic.

 

I'd be very interested to hear what the behaviorist says. I think they say kids aren't ready for CBT until they're adolescents (although parents can learn techniques to use at home by talking with a CBT therapist.) I don't know much about behavioral therapy, I always assumed it involved kids talking about their feelings/behaviors and learning skills on how to manage them, which she just isn't ready for at this point. But maybe it's more than that? I guess I should do some reading...

[PeterPan]

I think a behaviorist is typically, hopefully, going to be skilled in behavioralism (ABA) but ALSO going to know a bunch of other systems and tools (Zones, Social Thinking materials, etc.).  So then they create a mix that fits the child.  

 

I'm pretty impressed with this behaviorist, and I'm pretty hard to impress.  Obviously we'll see how many tools she has, but I'm just saying she GETS ds' behavior, and this is ALL she does is behavior stuff.  

 

I need to read about the DMG some more.  I really don't believe in quick cures anymore, sigh.  I'm pretty sensitive, and it seems like sometimes I give my kids things and they react.  He used to react to fish when he was little, for instance.  And there *is* a variant of ASD that won't respond to DMG well, from what I'm reading.  So I'll just take my time.  It's definitely interesting!  I've just tried so many of those wonderful things over the years (and wasted so much money trying them) that I really slow down now.  

[nature girl]

I completely understand...I'm more of a Throweverythingatthewalltoseeifitsticks kind of person (making sure first that it won't be harmful in the long-term, obviously), and most of what I've thrown hasn't done enough that I could point a finger and said it made a concrete difference. I've seen small improvements over the past few months, but I'm guessing it has more to do with how we work with her, not so much the supplements and diet changes.

[Guest]

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Edited February 11, 2016 by Guest

[Mom28GreatKids]

Thanks for the update. Just ordered the DMG for my kiddo. His behavior has really ramped up in a bad way lately, so I am hoping. I had really good luck with supplements with my oldest, so we shall see.

[PeterPan]

Cricket, at home CBT? What was the book for that?

[Guest]

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[itsheresomewhere]

 DMG-  our neuro recommends this but warns every patient that they should only be on it for a month and then be off of it.  Unless something has changed in the past month, there hasn't been a study on safety after a month on it.  So it becomes a gray area.  Some of our neurologist patients' who have attempted to stay on it longer than recommended do start having some issues with diarrhea.  

 

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Edited February 11, 2016 by Guest

[PeterPan]

 DMG-  our neuro recommends this but warns every patient that they should only be on it for a month and then be off of it.  Unless something has changed in the past month, there hasn't been a study on safety after a month on it.  So it becomes a gray area.  Some of our neurologist patients' who have attempted to stay on it longer than recommended do start having some issues with diarrhea.  

Why the side effects?  What is it doing or causing?

[Guest]

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[itsheresomewhere]

Why the side effects? What is it doing or causing?

Her thought was it built up too much in their bodies. Kind of like when you take too much of a certain form of magnesium or certain other vitamins. I can see that happening. Last I heard there is a long term study to see check the safety of being on it for long. I have no idea when it is complete.

[nature girl]

Why the side effects?  What is it doing or causing?

 

I'd like to know this too...I did a fair amount of research on safety before we started, and haven't been able to find anything. I actually read the blog of a woman with an ASD son, who'd started him years ago and still sees profound effects both in his speech and his behavior. (There were pre- and post- videos, and it really was amazing.) Now Googling DMG and "side effects" and DMG and diarrhea, I haven't found anything. Did the neuro give you any more specifics? If it did eventually cause diarrhea, is that the only issue so that we could stop taking it without any harm? Wondering if we should have an on for a month/off for a month cycle. I'd really hate to stop at this point if there's no real danger, though.

[nature girl]

Sorry, that was a cross-post. I did just find this: http://stevens_mom.tripod.com/id42.html "

There are no documented long-term side effects from DMG; however, in a few cases, parents report agitation and/or hyperactivity in their children. In these cases, it is recom-mended that folic acid also be given to the person. The suggested amount is two 800 microgram tablets for each 125 mg tablet of DMG. Some professionals suggest that DMG should always be supplemented with folic acid since folic acid cannot cause any harm, reduces the possibility of agitation/hyperactivity, and could possibly be more effective than when giving DMG alone.

 

Parents have also reported positive results with a similar product, tri-methyl-glycine (TMG). There are, as yet, no published reports on its efficacy for autistic individuals. TMG breaks down into DMG and SAMe in the body. SAMe is a nutritional supplement and is sometimes used to treat mood disorders such as depression.

[itsheresomewhere]

I'd like to know this too...I did a fair amount of research on safety before we started, and haven't been able to find anything. I actually read the blog of a woman with an ASD son, who'd started him years ago and still sees profound effects both in his speech and his behavior. (There were pre- and post- videos, and it really was amazing.) Now Googling DMG and "side effects" and DMG and diarrhea, I haven't found anything. Did the neuro give you any more specifics? If it did eventually cause diarrhea, is that the only issue so that we could stop taking it without any harm? Wondering if we should have an on for a month/off for a month cycle. I'd really hate to stop at this point if there's no real danger, though.

If that blog is the same blog from a few years ago, keep in mind she had the child is a lot of therapy so that may have that. It went around the autism group I was part of and there was a lot of debate with it.

 

I know she does have patients go on and off at it at times. Personally, that is what I would do.

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[sbgrace]

I'm glad you got some answers. I completely agree about poor emotional regulation looking like a lot of different things. I see that in my son too. I think I remember seeing a lot of parallels in a post you made a while back actually.

 

I'm glad you found a helpful supplement too. That feels so good. I remember when my son flipped into self talk rather than everything being out loud too. It's a big thing.

[nature girl]

Okay, since Anna's been on the DMG for about 5 weeks, I'm going to take a month break to see what happens with her behavior. At the very least, that will prove or disprove whether the DMG is the reason for the improvement. (She's been doing so well, I'm scared!)

 

At the same time, in the spirit of throwing everything at the wall, I've ordered some phosphatidylserine...If behavior goes downhill quickly the way I suspect it might, I'll try PS to see if it makes a difference. I'm also very interested in Vayarin (a phosphatidylserine/DHA/EPA blend) so if PS makes a difference, I may try to get a script for Vayarin (or try Sharp Thought, an OTC med that looks similar) to see if it's even more effective. I think the seeming success with DMG is making me even more determined to find some safe combination of supplements/therapies that can get us through.

[PeterPan]

We had a thread where we discussed phsophatidylserine a few years ago. There are some food sources as well (eggs, etc.).  You could google search the boards to find it.

 

Just me, but I don't think I'd stop something that is working without some clear evidence.  That could be really ugly.  

 

Keep working on your supplements, absolutely, but I'll just point out to you that the mix that gives you enough improvement that you can do 1 hour a day (or whatever your target is) might be short when you realize you need 2-4.  Btdt, sigh.

[Lecka]

Anna -- just for the sake of principle -- I think you should consider, first, consistently tracking for a while (two weeks or a month) before you go off, and then track while she is off for two weeks or a month.  And then track when she goes back on.  

 

It is so, so, so easy to have a "sense" or a "feeling" sometimes, but it is really not easy to objectively look back over a 4-month period and think, that overall, one period was better than the other, or worse. 

 

It is easy to end up judging by one or two memorable days, or something like that. 

 

Plus, what if there is a subtle improvement, that you might miss, by just counting on memory/impressions?  It might be subtle, such that you don't stay with it ----- but you never know, down the road, when it could be helpful to know she had a subtle improvement with it, or a time might come when the subtle improvement is something you want to go for. 

 

It is just so hard to tell without tracking.... I am a big fan of it.

 

I am so happy things are sounding good for you guys :) 

 

The local school does not sound like a good fit at all..... I am glad you have the option to homeschool :)

[nature girl]

Just me, but I don't think I'd stop something that is working without some clear evidence.  That could be really ugly.  

 

Learning that a doctor warned against using it for more than a month at a time spooked me a bit. I'd planned on taking a break at some point anyway, just to verify that the DMG is what's behind her improvements, so I guess that will be my break. I do want to see an integrative physician at some point in the near future, get her tested for the MTHFR mutation and discuss supplements, because her ped and neurologist have both refused to give approval or advice on anything "alternative." Hopefully I can find one in my area who also has experience with Vayarin, to see if they think it's worthwhile. It's hard to tell from the stories I've read online whether the hype is all marketing attempts (a lot of comments where discussions of the wonders of Vayarin are their only post...) or come from real parents. And I'll be able to ask then about DMG long-term.

 

 

Anna -- just for the sake of principle -- I think you should consider, first, consistently tracking for a while (two weeks or a month) before you go off, and then track while she is off for two weeks or a month.  And then track when she goes back on.  

 

It is so, so, so easy to have a "sense" or a "feeling" sometimes, but it is really not easy to objectively look back over a 4-month period and think, that overall, one period was better than the other, or worse. 

 

It is easy to end up judging by one or two memorable days, or something like that. 

 

Plus, what if there is a subtle improvement, that you might miss, by just counting on memory/impressions?  It might be subtle, such that you don't stay with it ----- but you never know, down the road, when it could be helpful to know she had a subtle improvement with it, or a time might come when the subtle improvement is something you want to go for. 

 

It is just so hard to tell without tracking.... I am a big fan of it.

 

I hear what you're saying, and I was actually tracking religiously when we made dietary changes a few months ago, writing down every meal and snack and then trying to tie it to behavior. Supplements I haven't been as rigorous about, because I think some of them take a long time to notice effects. Things like Omega 3's and magnesium I've kept up with because there's no harm in it, but I can't say if the gradual improvement we've seen from this summer is at all related. (I do know, looking over the summary I'd written to her neurologist last summer, that she was in a different place this fall, although she did still regress at times. It's just impossible to know what's behind the changes.)

 

With the DMG, the effect was almost immediately positive, though. I don't think there have really been memorable days (although there were many memorable negative moments before we started DMG.) The real changes I've seen is that there haven't been any major meltdowns like we used to have, no need for prolonged heavy work to calm her, when something she's making breaks she's able to growl and say, "I'm frustrated" rather than exploding like she used to. She usually gets completely ramped up excited and crazy when she's around a lot of people, I dread get-togethers, but holiday festivities were remarkably calm and enjoyable. And at the end of most days I've been able to look back and realize how peaceful the day has been (which hasn't happened since she was around 3!) It will be pretty obvious to us if those old behaviors return.

[Lecka]

It is hard, too, at this age.... my son with autism turned 7 in November, and he made a lot of gains over the summer.  Like -- more talking, more engaged, more getting-along behavior, more interested in playing with his brother and sister, etc. 

 

Even his main therapist, doing therapist with him, who I would have *totally* believed if she said "it is thanks to me," said "oh, he is maturing, we see a lot of kids make a maturity jump around this age." 

 

But it is impossible to argue with progress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  It sounds like things are getting easier for her and for you :) :) :)

[nature girl]

It is hard, too, at this age.... my son with autism turned 7 in November, and he made a lot of gains over the summer.  Like -- more talking, more engaged, more getting-along behavior, more interested in playing with his brother and sister, etc. 

 

Even his main therapist, doing therapist with him, who I would have *totally* believed if she said "it is thanks to me," said "oh, he is maturing, we see a lot of kids make a maturity jump around this age." 

 

At the same time, if you'd done nothing, he wouldn't be making anywhere near as much (if any) progress. So...really it's mostly your interventions. I say yes, give credit to our amazing kids, but not without giving credit to ourselves first. :001_smile:

[Lecka]

Thanks :)

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[texasmama]

Wanted to report on my ASD son's response to the DMG.  He had been taking Carlson's fish oil and chelated mag.  I took him off of those and put him on the DMG supplements.  He was on the DMG for almost two weeks, and I noted a sharp decrease in his emotional functioning.  He was less calm, more angry, and less able to manage his emotions.  He plays on a competitive basketball team, and dh remarked that he played possibly his worst game ever a few days ago.  I copped to changing the supplements.  He said, "Change them back!" :lol:   So I did, a few days ago.  During the time he was on the DMG, he had an emotional outburst in which he cried and was unable to calm himself.  These had really dropped off.  Also, he developed perseverative thoughts which were intrusive, and I was unable to coach him out of these.

 

I suspect that the major difference in the supplements is the magnesium.  The DMG has very little mag, and I have him on 400 mg of Carlson's.  

[nature girl]

Hmmm, interesting...I wonder if it's worth trying the two together?

 

This wasn't our experience, but I've read that some kids get more hyper and emotional for the first two weeks of taking DMG, then become calmer than they were before starting. Also some kids just don't need the extra methylation, so they might end up with negative effects. I don't know, I don't really understand how this all works. I just know after some awful days in the beginning of the month I've put Anna back on DMG, and she's doing better. I think I'll start using it on weekdays only, and see how she does.

[texasmama]

He does not have ADHD so hyperactivity was never the symptom needing addressed.  Everyone's brains work so differently.  I was just sharing our experience and the good news, which is what we had previously been doing was actually having some positive impact.  I suspected it was, but now I feel very sure about that.

[Mom28GreatKids]

Ok, my turn to add our experience with DMG. DS (3.5) has been on it 2 weeks and we have seen noticeable improvement in his regulation and impulsivity. His ability to deal with transitions is even better.

 

His OT session Monday was tantrum free- like when it was time to go, he went and got his shoes and walked out the door. He has never done this.

 

Speech on Wed was a little rougher, but there were other things that contributed to this. The thing is, even though a circumstance during ST disregulated him, we were able to get him back, and calmly out the door. I was so disappointed that it wasn't better, but as we were talking on the way out, SLP pointed out that he was not screaming or even crying, and interactive with her and telling her what he wanted to do next week- progress. She is very good at seeing the little things that are progress in her book, thankfully.

 

He is also sleeping better, which is HUGE. This kid is a horrible sleeper.

 

I am wondering if I should add magnesium with a higher dosage to what we are doing to see if that helps more.

 

Well, just thought I would throw our experience out there for what it is worth.

[nature girl]

Wow, that's awesome Marie! I'm so glad it seems to be working so well for you, and hope it continues.

 

ETA: I've read it can also help with verbal apraxia, so hopefully you'll start to see changes there too in time!

Edited January 23, 2016 by Anna's Mom