Book a Week 2016 - W1: Happy New Year!!!!

[Robin M]

Aly hasn't finished it yet so I was not able to rant.  :glare:

 

 

As I was reading the first part of the novel, Victor Frankenstein was the epitome of Dr. Ian Malcolm's quote in Jurassic Park, "Um, I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here, it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could ...  your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."   

Yes, yes, yes, so appropriate and I've always loved this quote.  

 

 

Thank you Jenn to the link on How I Could Read More Books.    As a writer, any author is going to read the underlined with dismay:

A professional reader's livelihood depends on their ability to race through words. Last year Sutherland finished a new book approximately every 2.4 days. "I turn four pages at a time if I have to," Sutherland says, "whereas most people like to enjoy their reading.

As to the bolded --- Oh you think?  I may be a fast reader, but at least I enjoy what I'm reading.  

[Jane in NC]

Those who participate in the BaW threads are at different stages in life and our children are at different ages and different homeschooling stages (or in ps, in college, or beyond now). Some have more time to read than others. Some make more time to read. Some read lightly when they get a chance. Some read the heavy stuff but only when they get a chance.

 

I think what so many of us love about these threads is that it doesn't matter if you read a book a week as the title suggests you should aim for, a book or more a day, or a book every other month. It doesn't matter if you read all classics, all non-fiction, a bunch of romance novels, a bunch detective or cozy mystery novels (many of us, including myself fit this category), literary fiction, sci-fi, a mix of many kinds of books and on and on. Some of us participate in all or some of the challenges, others don't at all.

 

There is truly no judgement regarding the number or types of books any of us read. We're just a bunch of people who like to read*, encourage each other to read, and offer and ask for suggestions. 

 

We also cheer each other on and give hugs where needed in the non-reading aspects of our lives.

 

Do I love these threads or what? :)

 

Thank you, Robin! Thank you everyone who participates!  :001_wub:  :001_wub:  :wub:

 

*Even though we all read what we want to, a lot of us have read books we never heard of or would never have considered, if a BaWer hadn't posted about it and recommended it.

 

I wish I could like your post twice!  Want to double post it? ;)

 

 

[Bluegoat]

My copy (Oxford World Classics) had extensive commentary, and I read it with a guided discussion group. I definitely got something out of reading the book and I'm glad I read something rather foundational, but my opinion of Bunyan's motivation remains the same. Just curious, did you have a different interpretation?

 

No, not really -I'd say it is a didactic book,  presenting a way of thinking about what it means to lead a Christian life - a fairly straightforward allegory without any of the psychological or archetypal stuff we've come to expect.  There isn't really a sub-text, he tells you right out what he wants you to know.

[Bluegoat]

A one year old! An extra one? Fostering? Well anyway that would indeed cut down on reading time.

 

I'm envious that you have a parish library. What a civilized thing. We have a little gift store....

 

Just now reading Sermon 5, "Self-Denial the Test of Religious Earnestness." While stuffing myself with leftover King's Cake. On a Friday.

 

No, not fostering - that would have me right out of it I am sure.  I've been babysitting a little girl for three years now during the work week, and now I'm keeping her brother as well.  He's pretty easy to get along with, but I'm finding all I want to do once I'm done in the evening is watchh an hour of tv and go to bed. 

 

I think earnestness is over-rated, anyway.

[marbel]

Those who participate in the BaW threads are at different stages in life and our children are at different ages and different homeschooling stages (or in ps, in college, or beyond now). Some have more time to read than others. Some make more time to read. Some read lightly when they get a chance. Some read the heavy stuff but only when they get a chance.

 

<snip>

 

This is really important to remember.

 

I am in a very intense time of homeschooling right now.   I don't read much for pleasure though I am trying to find ways to do more.  But, I also consider the books I read for homeschooling as my own personal reading.  When I read the American history textbook in order to have useful discussions of the material with my kids (who read it on their own as well), I'm still reading!  It's not something I would choose, and I don't always enjoy it. But it is worthwhile reading.  I can't read a book a week that way, but it doesn't really matter.

 

When the nest is empty, I hope to have lots of pleasure reading time again.  Till then... we do what we can!

 

 

[Pam in CT]

I finished Between the World and Me yesterday. Anyone want to discuss? I know Jane is reading it, anyone else? I think there's one or two more people....

my husband and I are out the door to meet friends for dinner, but... 

 

Yes.

 

Ok, y'all, Between the World and Me. I must admit I've been reluctant to discuss it because who am I to comment on the black experience, you know?

 

I found this to be a very powerful and moving book but also an unfulfilling one. I agree with 95% of what Coates says, so if the below sounds critical, I am only focusing on the areas of the book that gave me pause, perhaps because I am a child of Asian immigrants.

 

While Coates gave more than a passing nod to the diversity of places like NYC and Paris, he ignored the increasing numbers of Asians, Hispanics, etc. as a percentage of the population, across the entire country and not only in metro areas, and what impact they may or may not have on the race discussion. (Although to be fair, he says he doesn't really talk about race, that it is white people who brought race into it.) Regardless...that same wonder he felt about those "melting pot" cities years ago doesn't seem to have moved forward and been applied to our increasingly diverse country. He talks about the need for whites to change while not giving any ideas, which is fine, as I suspect he has some ideas but wanted to be true to the "letter to his son" format and laying out "to do" items doesn't really fit into that. But I do wish he had addressed the increasingly multi-cultural country in which his son finds himself. What are the obligations and roles of newly arrived immigrants? Refugees? I don't believe it's as clear-cut as he wants it to be. I wish it were.

 

 

 

Overall it was a fantastic book and I cried through much of it. The most intense and vivid part for me, in a book full of those types of moments, was the following passage:

 

 

I was also deeply affected by another passage:

 

 

Here is how I responded the first time through (scroll about 1/3 down, past the Hamilton bit).  The linked review in the NYRB is excellent and addresses the same passage you responded to.

 

Then I read it again with my daughter, and now have more...

 

Back later.

[melmichigan]

Happy New Year everyone! I had many plans for the new year and my book a week selections.   Sadly that all changed when I fell on the ice on January 1 and suffered a bad blow to the back of my head.   I have a bad concussion and am on brain rest.   Because the area I hit effects my vision center I am unable to sit and read.  I am learning how to use the dictation and speech options on my computer and phone to enable me to listen to everyone’s posts and hopefully post back. 

 

You never realize how much you read in a given day until you’re not supposed to!   I have its discovered audiobooks which were never to my liking in the past but are  what I have available.   I finish Target Engaged by ML Buchman and have started Bound to Darkness by Lara Adrian.  Sadly none of my challenge choices are available on Hoopla but I will have my daughter look through audible in the coming week. Best wishes to everyone on their reading adventures! When I catch up with listening to this thread I will try and post again.

 

 

[Angel]

Happy New Year everyone! I had many plans for the new year and my book a week selections.   Sadly that all changed when I fell on the ice on January 1 and suffered a bad blow to the back of my head.   I have a bad concussion and am on brain rest.   Because the area I hit effects my vision center I am unable to sit and read.  I am learning how to use the dictation and speech options on my computer and phone to enable me to listen to everyone’s posts and hopefully post back. 

 

You never realize how much you read in a given day until you’re not supposed to!   I have its discovered audiobooks which were never to my liking in the past but are  what I have available.   I finish Target Engaged by ML Buchman and have started Bound to Darkness by Lara Adrian.  Sadly none of my challenge choices are available on Hoopla but I will have my daughter look through audible in the coming week. Best wishes to everyone on their reading adventures! When I catch up with listening to this thread I will try and post again.

 

:scared:  and  :grouphug: and will be praying for a swift recovery!

[Nan in Mass]

Melissa - I found that the more audiobooks I listened to, the better at becoming absorbed in them I became. I still don't always like not being able to peek ahead to see if I really want to read every word of the next paragraph or just skim it (if it looks sad or gory or upsetting), but as long as I choose my books carefully, I like audiobooks a lot, now. It is heaven to be able to read and do housework or drive or something at the same time.

 

Nan

[Rosyl]

This short read is a gem!!! I picked it up one afternoon this week, done the next morning, even with interruptions.

 

The Storied Life of A.J. Fikry, by Gabrielle Zevin. Sort of a love story, about people, about books. When I finished I wanted so much to go to the fictional Alice Island and meet the characters!

I loved this book, too.

[Robin M]

Those who participate in the BaW threads are at different stages in life and our children are at different ages and different homeschooling stages (or in ps, in college, or beyond now). Some have more time to read than others. Some make more time to read. Some read lightly when they get a chance. Some read the heavy stuff but only when they get a chance.

 

I think what so many of us love about these threads is that it doesn't matter if you read a book a week as the title suggests you should aim for, a book or more a day, or a book every other month. It doesn't matter if you read all classics, all non-fiction, a bunch of romance novels, a bunch detective or cozy mystery novels (many of us, including myself fit this category), literary fiction, sci-fi, a mix of many kinds of books and on and on. Some of us participate in all or some of the challenges, others don't at all.

 

There is truly no judgement regarding the number or types of books any of us read. We're just a bunch of people who like to read*, encourage each other to read, and offer and ask for suggestions. 

 

We also cheer each other on and give hugs where needed in the non-reading aspects of our lives.

 

Do I love these threads or what? :)

 

Thank you, Robin! Thank you everyone who participates!  :001_wub:  :001_wub:  :wub:

 

*Even though we all read what we want to, a lot of us have read books we never heard of or would never have considered, if a BaWer hadn't posted about it and recommended it.

Thank you and Brava, Kathy!

[Robin M]

Happy New Year everyone! I had many plans for the new year and my book a week selections.   Sadly that all changed when I fell on the ice on January 1 and suffered a bad blow to the back of my head.   I have a bad concussion and am on brain rest.   Because the area I hit effects my vision center I am unable to sit and read.  I am learning how to use the dictation and speech options on my computer and phone to enable me to listen to everyone’s posts and hopefully post back. 

 

You never realize how much you read in a given day until you’re not supposed to!   I have its discovered audiobooks which were never to my liking in the past but are  what I have available.   I finish Target Engaged by ML Buchman and have started Bound to Darkness by Lara Adrian.  Sadly none of my challenge choices are available on Hoopla but I will have my daughter look through audible in the coming week. Best wishes to everyone on their reading adventures! When I catch up with listening to this thread I will try and post again.

Oh my gosh,honey. Hope you recover swiftly, although I know concussions take time.   :grouphug:   Have your daughter pm your list and I'll see what I can find audiobook wise.  We read quite a few books and authors in common.   I have quite a few still on cd sitting in a closet - J.D.Robb and a few others.  When you get to the point where you can do prismacolor pencils and coloring books to keep your hands engaged, let me know. We'll send some your way. 

[mumto2]

Happy New Year everyone! I had many plans for the new year and my book a week selections.   Sadly that all changed when I fell on the ice on January 1 and suffered a bad blow to the back of my head.   I have a bad concussion and am on brain rest.   Because the area I hit effects my vision center I am unable to sit and read.  I am learning how to use the dictation and speech options on my computer and phone to enable me to listen to everyone’s posts and hopefully post back. 

 

You never realize how much you read in a given day until you’re not supposed to!   I have its discovered audiobooks which were never to my liking in the past but are  what I have available.   I finish Target Engaged by ML Buchman and have started Bound to Darkness by Lara Adrian.  Sadly none of my challenge choices are available on Hoopla but I will have my daughter look through audible in the coming week. Best wishes to everyone on their reading adventures! When I catch up with listening to this thread I will try and post again.

:grouphug: Melissa, I am so glad you checked in because I had noticed that you hadn't posted. My library Overdrive has quite a few audiobooks so have your dd look there also.

[Nan in Mass]

Melissa, where are you located? I recently discovered that I am entitled to have a Boston public library card, just by living in the state of Massachusetts. This gives me access to a much, much larger number of audiobooks via Overdrive. I download them so I needn't rely on the internet to listen.

 

Nan

[Kareni]

Happy New Year everyone! I had many plans for the new year and my book a week selections.   Sadly that all changed when I fell on the ice on January 1 and suffered a bad blow to the back of my head.   I have a bad concussion and am on brain rest.   ...

 

Oh, ouch!  I hope that your recuperation goes smoothly. 

 

I've never been too successful with audio books.  Too many years of using the radio as background noise during college and graduate school had the net result of making me tune out sound.  Once when we were going to paint the interior of our house, I thought it would be an ideal time to listen to an audio book.  I would listen to the first paragraph and then next be aware of the click of the tape stopping.  (You can tell this was some time ago since I was listening to a cassette tape!)  That said, I have listened to some audio books with my husband on some long car trips.  Three I listened to in their entirety (as opposed to nodding off to) were:

 

Andy Weir's The Martian: A Novel

 

Johannes Cabal the Necromancer by Jonathan Howard

 

and Suzanne Collins' The Hunger Games

 

Regards,

Kareni

[Chrysalis Academy]

I read The Annotated Ancient Mariner today.  I loved it!! Loved the poem, loved the notes, loved the intro, loved the interpretive essay.  I decided to read the poem, which I had never done, because it's supposed to be one of Shelley's influences in writing Frankenstein, which I can definitely see.  But I didn't expect to enjoy it so much!  It was quite fantastically magical.

[Violet Crown]

Those who participate in the BaW threads are at different stages in life and our children are at different ages and different homeschooling stages (or in ps, in college, or beyond now). Some have more time to read than others. Some make more time to read. Some read lightly when they get a chance. Some read the heavy stuff but only when they get a chance.

 

I think what so many of us love about these threads is that it doesn't matter if you read a book a week as the title suggests you should aim for, a book or more a day, or a book every other month. It doesn't matter if you read all classics, all non-fiction, a bunch of romance novels, a bunch detective or cozy mystery novels (many of us, including myself fit this category), literary fiction, sci-fi, a mix of many kinds of books and on and on. Some of us participate in all or some of the challenges, others don't at all.

 

There is truly no judgement regarding the number or types of books any of us read. We're just a bunch of people who like to read*, encourage each other to read, and offer and ask for suggestions.

 

We also cheer each other on and give hugs where needed in the non-reading aspects of our lives.

 

Do I love these threads or what? :)

 

Thank you, Robin! Thank you everyone who participates! :001_wub: :001_wub: :wub:

 

*Even though we all read what we want to, a lot of us have read books we never heard of or would never have considered, if a BaWer hadn't posted about it and recommended it.

Very well said.

[Nan in Mass]

I read The Annotated Ancient Mariner today. I loved it!! Loved the poem, loved the notes, loved the intro, loved the interpretive essay. I decided to read the poem, which I had never done, because it's supposed to be one of Shelley's influences in writing Frankenstein, which I can definitely see. But I didn't expect to enjoy it so much! It was quite fantastically magical.

So what sorts of things are in the notes? I,m probably being very dim here, but isn,t the poem pretty self-explanitory? It,s an old favourite in our family. Maybe it has deep levels I,m missing?

 

Nan

[Lady Florida.]

Happy New Year everyone! I had many plans for the new year and my book a week selections.   Sadly that all changed when I fell on the ice on January 1 and suffered a bad blow to the back of my head.   I have a bad concussion and am on brain rest.   

 

:grouphug: Oh Melissa!  :grouphug:  I hope your recovery is swift.

[Kathleen.]

Happy New Year!!!  Wow the first week.  We're really excited to be back for a second year.  We're going to keep our books light and fun :)

 

I read "Mr. and Mrs. Bunny - Detectives Extraordinaire! by Mrs. Bunny" by Polly Horvath and my 9yo read "Bravo, Amelia Bedelia" by Herman Parish.

 

:)

[TechWife]

I'm joining in again this year! I'm a new empty nester and am trying to find some worthwhile pursuits. I think improving the quality of the books I am reading is a good one and I loved the reading ideas I gained by doing this challenge a few years ago. 

 

Happy reading, everyone! 

 

 

[swimmermom3]

I have finished three books so far this year:

 

An Innocent Abroad: Life-Changing Trips from 35 Great Writers - This is an anthology in the venerable Lonely Planet travel series. I really want to like it more than I did. The central theme of "innocence" in travel felt almost forced in several of the essays, making for a very uneven experience. I forgot a few of the stories almost as soon as I read them, probably because they had the same feel as the essays my kids wrote when the topic required a level of self-reflection they were unable or unwilling to give.  I wish I hadn't waited until I was nearly half way through the book to mark the authors I liked so I could go read other work of theirs.  Memorable stories were Richard Ford's "Innocents Abroad," in which he and his wife are chased by hash dealers through miles of deserted roads in Morocco, Jenna Scatena's "A Walk with a Cave Man," where she heads off into the wilderness with the "Cave Master of Thailand," who is rumored to be crazy, and my favorite, Simon Winchester's "A Walk on Thin Ice."  This story recounts The Oxford University Expedition's nearly catastrophic 1965 trip to East Greenland in order to collect rock samples that helped prove the theory of continental drift and supported the idea of plate tectonics.  If I could rate the book solely on these stories, it would easily be 4 out of 5 stars. Unfortunately, the inclusion of several truly lackluster essays earns it a 3.  Dh will read it and then we'll pass it on.

 

My second book accidentally ended up being a reread after I talked about it here:  Swedish Nobel Prize winner, Par Lagerkvist's The Sibyl.  I like the book on the second reading every bit as much on the first, but I can’t really tell you why. It’s a very uncomfortable story that juxtaposes two encounters with very different, and yet at times, similar, gods.  The first part of the story is about Ahasuerus, the Wandering Jew who is cursed to immortality because he denied Christ a place to rest his head while on his way to Golgotha. Ahasuerus eventually seeks out the Sibyl, the Temple of Apollo in Delphi’s greatest voice of the Oracle or Pythia, when she is a very old woman and hears the tale of how she became god-cursed. As an agnostic, I am not sure how those of faith will encounter the story. The writing is simple, yet I am left with the feeling that I held a small, thought-provoking multi-faceted gem. 5 stars for me and my second copy remains on my bookshelf.

 

The Woman Who Would be King: Hatshepsut’s Rise to Power in Ancient Egypt by Kara Cooney was my third book. The quote on the cover from Time is “Engrossing, and compulsively readable.†I wouldn’t agree, but then maybe as a homeschooler, I went into the book knowing more than the average reader. The writing is competent and well-researched and annotated. Hatshepsut is an intriguing historical figure as the only woman in ancient history to rule for nearly 22 years and to have acquired her power without bloodshed.  Her kingdom thrived and expanded under her rule. While Cooney tries to weave an engaging picture of what Hatshpsut might have been like, the author is also scrupulous in saying “Well this is what she could have done, or she could have done this, but we just don’t know for sure.†The political and religious machination fascinated me, but I found myself putting the book down every so often and reaching for something less dry to read. Three stars and I will be passing it along.

Edited January 10, 2016 by swimmermom3

[Stacia]

Oh no, Melissa! So sorry to hear about your fall & injury. Sending many hugs while you recover.

 

Heather, glad to hear your wonderful updates.

 

Kathy, I loved your post about what makes this thread great. You are spot on!

 

I didn't enjoy it as much I was hoping to - I think because I had My Year of Meats (a favourite novel) in the back of my head as a comparison, which was probably unfair.

 

Have you read Ozeki's A Tale for the Time Being? I've thought about trying My Year of Meats since is has gotten great reviews & because I loved A Tale for the Time Being so much, but just haven't gotten around to it yet.
 

[Nan in Mass]

I'm joining in again this year! I'm a new empty nester and am trying to find some worthwhile pursuits. I think improving the quality of the books I am reading is a good one and I loved the reading ideas I gained by doing this challenge a few years ago.

 

Happy reading, everyone!

Hi! How is the empty nesting going?

 

Nan

[Pam in CT]

back to Between the World, Them and Us....

Ok, y'all, Between the World and Me. I must admit I've been reluctant to discuss it because who am I to comment on the black experience, you know?

 

I found this to be a very powerful and moving book but also an unfulfilling one. I agree with 95% of what Coates says, so if the below sounds critical, I am only focusing on the areas of the book that gave me pause, perhaps because I am a child of Asian immigrants.

 

Re: unfulfilling -- I felt this as well, as did Michelle Alexander in the NYTBR review I linked last night (she is, BTW, the author of The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness, which I just finished and highly recommend as a kind of companion piece).  Part of her frustration seemed to be that it's not at all prescriptive; it just lays out this awful bleak dreadfulness without framing a possible pathway out.  

 

Part of mine, particularly the first read through but still the second time around too, was that he's not addressing a white audience at all, and that is disorienting to me....  

 

 

 

 

While Coates gave more than a passing nod to the diversity of places like NYC and Paris, he ignored the increasing numbers of Asians, Hispanics, etc. as a percentage of the population, across the entire country and not only in metro areas, and what impact they may or may not have on the race discussion. 

 

<snip>

 

......that same wonder he felt about those "melting pot" cities years ago doesn't seem to have moved forward and been applied to our increasingly diverse country. He talks about the need for whites to change while not giving any ideas, which is fine, as I suspect he has some ideas but wanted to be true to the "letter to his son" format and laying out "to do" items doesn't really fit into that. But I do wish he had addressed the increasingly multi-cultural country in which his son finds himself. What are the obligations and roles of newly arrived immigrants? Refugees? I don't believe it's as clear-cut as he wants it to be. I wish it were.....

 

Interesting... I didn't read his message that it's clearcut at all (if anything, I read hopelessness in the book, though that isn't the overall sense I get from his work in the Atlantic).  While it's true that he does not speak to the complexities of the melting pot (an image I don't know if he, or I for that matter, would use), I don't think that's because he's glossing over the different specificities that other minority and immigrant groups experience... He's just not talking about them (any more than he's talking about the experience of 'people who believe themselves to be white').   He's honing down very narrowly on the experience of blacks, and really even more narrowly within that, of black men.

 

My second read through, I "heard" the book as one long extended amplified version of The Talk that so many black parents have described having to have with their sons (specifically) in the teen years, along the lines of this is what the world you'll have to navigate is like.  And as readers the rest of us are just eavesdropping in on that Talk, no more and no less.

 

(Squirm.)

 

 

 

(Although to be fair, he says he doesn't really talk about race, that it is white people who brought race into it.) 

 

Yeah, and while on the one hand this construct he makes (Race is the child of racism, not the other way around) is sort of a rhetorical device, it nonetheless is one of the bits that keep burbling and percolating for me.  

 

While within the book Coates is, as you say, not at all prescriptive about What Can Be Done, this construct suggests -- I think -- that the work is in places that are very hard to reach -- the spaces between color-blindness vs. color-denial, unawareness vs. refusal-to-look, intentions vs. indifference, etc...  

 

[ChocolateMomster]

Oh my goodness! You guys are reading (and chatting) at such a fast pace! I was only able skim through these pages, but am glad to hear the pace of your conversation will slow down eventually. :laugh: :huh:

 

I finished The Martian Chronicles, which was an easy read to start the year with. I'm not a real sci-fi fan, but this was doable and fun. Right now I'm slowly working my way through these books:

 

War and Peace

Paradise Lost

Hamlet

How to Read a Book

The Disappearing Spoon

Birth of Britain

and two devotionals.

 

It will be a while before I finish any of these.

 

This afternoon I went to a second-hand bookshop which is closing down and brought home an amazing pile op 'new' books. :drool5: I bought so many my husband had to collect them with the van. :lol:

Edited January 10, 2016 by ChocolateMomster

[Jane in NC]

I was going to wait for the new thread but with the current Between the World and Me discussion, I'll jump in now with some personal thoughts that came to me as I read.

 

Yes, yes, yes to all who recommended and commented on Between the World and Me.  Indeed a powerful book!  Thank you to Robin who sent a copy my way.

 

One line that I marked was this simple note that Ta-nehisi Coates makes to his son:  "I would have you be a conscious citizen of this terrible and beautiful world."  I feel that he is addressing that sentiment to all of us.

 

The importance that Howard University played in Coates' life was interesting to me because of my own involvement here in NC with a traditionally black university, NC A&T.  Side note:  In 1862, Congress created land grant universities which focused on agriculture, engineering--the practical vs. the liberal arts.  Reacting to segregation in the South, a second group of land grant schools were born in 1890, the traditional black colleges of the South.

 

Universities such as Howard and NC A&T fulfilled a specific need in the days of segregation.  Recently while attending a planning session of an event orchestrated by NC A&T--and being one of the few white people in the room--I recognized that the history of this school creates an element of pride and ownership that I do not sense when I am attending other state level events.  In modern political code, we no longer say that NC A&T is a "black college" rather an "1890".  I'm not sure how I feel about that.  I really should ask the A&T folks what they think.  (By the way, Howard pre-dates the 1890s.)

 

Idnib wrote:

 

 

While Coates gave more than a passing nod to the diversity of places like NYC and Paris, he ignored the increasing numbers of Asians, Hispanics, etc. as a percentage of the population, across the entire country and not only in metro areas, and what impact they may or may not have on the race discussion. (Although to be fair, he says he doesn't really talk about race, that it is white people who brought race into it.) Regardless...that same wonder he felt about those "melting pot" cities years ago doesn't seem to have moved forward and been applied to our increasingly diverse country. He talks about the need for whites to change while not giving any ideas, which is fine, as I suspect he has some ideas but wanted to be true to the "letter to his son" format and laying out "to do" items doesn't really fit into that. But I do wish he had addressed the increasingly multi-cultural country in which his son finds himself. What are the obligations and roles of newly arrived immigrants? Refugees? I don't believe it's as clear-cut as he wants it to be. I wish it were.

 

As I read Between the World and Me, I also thought about my Cherokee friend whose first language was Cherokee.  When she began attending school here in NC, she was placed in Special Ed classes because she did not speak English fluently.  She now has a PhD but it was a very long road for her, one that would have been much simpler for a kid in a different skin.

 

And I thought about my own son and Nan's boys who figured out on their own that when flying it was smart to get a haircut beforehand and wear a collared shirt while traveling.  How easy for them to make some simple changes and yet how sad that appearance pegs and is threatening.

 

The story that I tell often is from a Math prof (of color) who spent a sabbatical in Ireland back in the '80's. After a couple of weeks he said that he never felt so comfortable anywhere, that race did not seem to matter.  And then it was discovered that he was Protestant.  He never felt so shunned.

 

The comfort that people derive by labeling others is harmful.  Yet this does not begin to deal with the historic nightmare of the enslaved and Native Americans, the lasting legacies we see today.

 

How fortunate for us that Coates is bringing this conversation to the forefront.  We may squirm but this is necessary.

[idnib]

Part of mine, particularly the first read through but still the second time around too, was that he's not addressing a white audience at all, and that is disorienting to me....  

 

 

 

Interesting... I didn't read his message that it's clearcut at all (if anything, I read hopelessness in the book, though that isn't the overall sense I get from his work in the Atlantic).  While it's true that he does not speak to the complexities of the melting pot (an image I don't know if he, or I for that matter, would use), I don't think that's because he's glossing over the different specificities that other minority and immigrant groups experience... He's just not talking about them (any more than he's talking about the experience of 'people who believe themselves to be white').   He's honing down very narrowly on the experience of blacks, and really even more narrowly within that, of black men.

 

I seem to be having trouble with quotes, so I put the quote in green.

 

I am curious about the disorientation. Could you explain more?

 

I'm not white, and I am very used to having discussions about race/religious persecution/immigration from "the outside" so to speak. So it doesn't seem odd to me at all. Of course being Muslim in the U.S. can never be compared to slavery, but as a parallel, a Muslim could write a book directed at her Muslim child about the experience she will have with wearing a hijab, going through airport security, being yelled at or told she is going to hell, etc. And would anyone who is well-informed about the current state of affairs be surprised? And why would that be disorienting to them?

 

(I'm really just curious, I hope this doesn't sound aggressive or not as intended. These are difficult topics.)

 

I'll try to clarify on the "clearcut" comment. I believe he is saying that white people have to come to their own conclusions about what is to be done and until that occurs, there is not much black people can do. And here I believe he is talking about government actions in the form of reparations (see article I linked above), improving neighborhoods, changes in policing, etc. But I feel he is ignoring that as more Asians, Hispanics, etc gain more power and voice in U.S. government, it's not just about changing white minds only. That's where I think he's being too clearcut, that if only whites would change, we could make progress. That may be true today, but will that be true in 50 years? It feels a bit dismissive of the growing number and influence of people who are not white, not black, and/or who were not born in the U.S., and for that reason may not feel the same level of obligation or have the same level of understanding. In other words, the "not clearcut" version would be that all Americans, regardless of color, creed, and country of origin, need to be educated and work together to change The Dream. Simply saying "white people" ignores the growing complexity and diversity of our society in the future.

Edited January 10, 2016 by idnib

[Jane in NC]

I seem to be having trouble with quotes, so I put the quote in green.

 

I am curious about the disorientation. Could you explain more?

 

I'm not white, and I am very used to having discussions about race/religious persecution/immigration from "the outside" so to speak. So it doesn't seem odd to me at all. Of course being Muslim in the U.S. can never be compared to slavery, but as a parallel, a Muslim could write a book directed at her Muslim child about the experience she will have with wearing a hijab, going through airport security, being yelled at or told she is going to hell, etc. And would anyone who is well-informed about the current state of affairs be surprised? And why would that be disorienting to them?

 

(I'm really just curious, I hope this doesn't sound aggressive or not as intended. These are difficult topics.)

 

I'll try to clarify on the "clearcut" comment. I believe he is saying that white people have to come to their own conclusions about what is to be done and until that occurs, there is not much black people can do. And here I believe he is talking about government actions in the form of reparations (see article I linked above), improving neighborhoods, changes in policing, etc. But I feel he is ignoring that as more Asians, Hispanics, etc gain more power and voice in U.S. government, it's not just about changing white minds only. That's where I think he's being too clearcut, that if only whites would change, we could make progress. That may be true today, but will that be true in 50 years? It feels a bit dismissive of the growing number and influence of people who are not white, not black, and/or who were not born in the U.S., and for that reason may not feel the same level of obligation or have the same level of understanding. In other words, the "not clearcut" version would be that all Americans, regardless of color, creed, and country of origin, need to be educated and work together to change The Dream. Simply saying "white people" ignores the growing complexity and diversity of our society in the future.

 

As the grandchild of immigrants, I like to think I am cognizant (and perhaps sensitive) to the immigrant experience.  It was shocking to me when I was eighteen or so and learned that it was common in my hometown to have covenants in real estate deeds that excluded Catholics (i.e. Polish or Irish immigrants) or Jews from buying property in certain neighborhoods.  So much for "white privilege"...

 

A couple of thoughts on your comments, idnib: Is Coates addressing "white people" or "people who think they are white"?  I want to give myself a pat on the back and think that I am more of a citizen of the world than a person who sees everything through an American "white" lens.  Kidding myself probably..

 

When I first moved to NC there was a migratory Hispanic presence in agriculture but the building boom tied to population growth changed the equation.  The tech industry has drawn an educated Asian population.  Yet I don't think that the mostly white and male politicians in Raleigh have begun to understand the changing population. 

 

May I just say that as the grandchild of immigrants on one side of the family and the great, great whatever grandchild of pioneers on the other, I love the diversity of American culture.  To me it adds a richness that I do not want to see lost or erased in homogenization (what Coates calls the "dream"--not my dream!)

 

Perhaps what he sees in New York is becoming more typical in other places and not just urban areas. Hmmm...off to Google to see if he has addressed some of these issues.

 

[Pam in CT]

I seem to be having trouble with quotes, so I put the quote in green.

 

I am curious about the disorientation. Could you explain more?

 

I'm not white, and I am very used to having discussions about race/religious persecution/immigration from "the outside" so to speak. So it doesn't seem odd to me at all. Of course being Muslim in the U.S. can never be compared to slavery, but as a parallel, a Muslim could write a book directed at her Muslim child about the experience she will have with wearing a hijab, going through airport security, being yelled at or told she is going to hell, etc. And would anyone who is well-informed about the current state of affairs be surprised? And why would that be disorienting to them?

 

(I'm really just curious, I hope this doesn't sound aggressive or not as intended. These are difficult topics.)

 

I'll try to clarify on the "clearcut" comment. I believe he is saying that white people have to come to their own conclusions about what is to be done and until that occurs, there is not much black people can do. And here I believe he is talking about government actions in the form of reparations (see article I linked above), improving neighborhoods, changes in policing, etc. But I feel he is ignoring that as more Asians, Hispanics, etc gain more power and voice in U.S. government, it's not just about changing white minds only. That's where I think he's being too clearcut, that if only whites would change, we could make progress. That may be true today, but will that be true in 50 years? It feels a bit dismissive of the growing number and influence of people who are not white, not black, and/or who were not born in the U.S., and for that reason may not feel the same level of obligation or have the same level of understanding. In other words, the "not clearcut" version would be that all Americans, regardless of color, creed, and country of origin, need to be educated and work together to change The Dream. Simply saying "white people" ignores the growing complexity and diversity of our society in the future.

 

(BTW, don't worry about sounding aggressive with me...  These are indeed difficult topics, but I believe strongly we have collectively to find a way to talk about them.  Feigning societal colorblindness is evidently not doing the job.   And FWIW, for better and for worse, I have a thick skin...   :laugh: )

 

So -- I too am just trying to understand what you mean -- by saying he's making the problem look too "clearcut" you mean something like "binary" -- as if the only groups that matter are, in his words, "people who tragically believe themselves to be white" and "people who have been taught to think of themselves as black"? 

 

 

 

ETA: oh, and re: disorientation: Just that it is disorienting, and uncomfortable, as a white person that Coates uses so much language along the lines of white "pillaging" and "exploitation of black bodies."  I cannot stop a "yeah, but, not ME!" reflex arising in my gorge, defending the righteousness of my intentions... which gets back to some of the white fragility issues that another thread delved into a few weeks ago.  I recognize what's happening but it still happens.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Pam in CT

[idnib]

Perhaps what he sees in New York is becoming more typical in other places and not just urban areas. Hmmm...off to Google to see if he has addressed some of these issues.

 

Here's a link regarding suburbs instead of cities. It's not about rural, though.

 

Here's a map of counties where whites have become minorities.

 

Another interesting idea is that 1 in 7 U.S. marriages are now interracial or interethnic. How do the children of those marriages fit into the picture?

 

This is from 2012, but shows current trends in race.

 

Edit: One more, about the current modern immigration wave.

 

Can you tell Pew Research is one of my favorite sites to browse?  :laugh:

Edited January 10, 2016 by idnib

[Robin M]

Link to week two - please continue conversation in new thread.  

[swimmermom3]

I was going to wait for the new thread but with the current Between the World and Me discussion, I'll jump in now with some personal thoughts that came to me as I read.

 

Yes, yes, yes to all who recommended and commented on Between the World and Me.  Indeed a powerful book!  Thank you to Robin who sent a copy my way.

 

One line that I marked was this simple note that Ta-nehisi Coates makes to his son:  "I would have you be a conscious citizen of this terrible and beautiful world."  I feel that he is addressing that sentiment to all of us.

 

The importance that Howard University played in Coates' life was interesting to me because of my own involvement here in NC with a traditionally black university, NC A&T.  Side note:  In 1862, Congress created land grant universities which focused on agriculture, engineering--the practical vs. the liberal arts.  Reacting to segregation in the South, a second group of land grant schools were born in 1890, the traditional black colleges of the South.

 

Universities such as Howard and NC A&T fulfilled a specific need in the days of segregation.  Recently while attending a planning session of an event orchestrated by NC A&T--and being one of the few white people in the room--I recognized that the history of this school creates an element of pride and ownership that I do not sense when I am attending other state level events.  In modern political code, we no longer say that NC A&T is a "black college" rather an "1890".  I'm not sure how I feel about that.  I really should ask the A&T folks what they think.  (By the way, Howard pre-dates the 1890s.)

 

Idnib wrote:

 

 

As I read Between the World and Me, I also thought about my Cherokee friend whose first language was Cherokee.  When she began attending school here in NC, she was placed in Special Ed classes because she did not speak English fluently.  She now has a PhD but it was a very long road for her, one that would have been much simpler for a kid in a different skin.

 

And I thought about my own son and Nan's boys who figured out on their own that when flying it was smart to get a haircut beforehand and wear a collared shirt while traveling.  How easy for them to make some simple changes and yet how sad that appearance pegs and is threatening.

 

The story that I tell often is from a Math prof (of color) who spent a sabbatical in Ireland back in the '80's. After a couple of weeks he said that he never felt so comfortable anywhere, that race did not seem to matter.  And then it was discovered that he was Protestant.  He never felt so shunned.

 

The comfort that people derive by labeling others is harmful.  Yet this does not begin to deal with the historic nightmare of the enslaved and Native Americans, the lasting legacies we see today.

 

How fortunate for us that Coates is bringing this conversation to the forefront.  We may squirm but this is necessary.

 

Jane, thank you for adding your thoughts on Between the World and Me.  I was going to delay reading it for a couple of weeks, but now looks like a good time while the conversations here are still fresh.

 

 

[swimmermom3]

I seem to be having trouble with quotes, so I put the quote in green.

 

I am curious about the disorientation. Could you explain more?

 

I'm not white, and I am very used to having discussions about race/religious persecution/immigration from "the outside" so to speak. So it doesn't seem odd to me at all. Of course being Muslim in the U.S. can never be compared to slavery, but as a parallel, a Muslim could write a book directed at her Muslim child about the experience she will have with wearing a hijab, going through airport security, being yelled at or told she is going to hell, etc. And would anyone who is well-informed about the current state of affairs be surprised? And why would that be disorienting to them?

 

(I'm really just curious, I hope this doesn't sound aggressive or not as intended. These are difficult topics.)

 

I'll try to clarify on the "clearcut" comment. I believe he is saying that white people have to come to their own conclusions about what is to be done and until that occurs, there is not much black people can do. And here I believe he is talking about government actions in the form of reparations (see article I linked above), improving neighborhoods, changes in policing, etc. But I feel he is ignoring that as more Asians, Hispanics, etc gain more power and voice in U.S. government, it's not just about changing white minds only. That's where I think he's being too clearcut, that if only whites would change, we could make progress. That may be true today, but will that be true in 50 years? It feels a bit dismissive of the growing number and influence of people who are not white, not black, and/or who were not born in the U.S., and for that reason may not feel the same level of obligation or have the same level of understanding. In other words, the "not clearcut" version would be that all Americans, regardless of color, creed, and country of origin, need to be educated and work together to change The Dream. Simply saying "white people" ignores the growing complexity and diversity of our society in the future.

 

For my son's Comparative Government class, we watched this open lecture in Germany with historian Niall Ferguson. 

The questions at the end were quite thoughtful.  While I no longer remember the actual question, I was struck by one person's comment that with the current population trends, in a very short period of time, the "white European" would no longer be in the minority.  I knew this subconsciously, but to my embarrassment I hadn't really thought through some of the implications.

 

The area I grew up in and where I still live, was predominantly Dutch and German farmers with the seasonal influx of migrant workers in agriculture.  There were very few minorities in the schools I attended.  Fast-forward a couple of decades and the last time I was at the relatively affluent middle school in our area, I was definitely in the minority.  High-tech has completely changed the "face" of the urban areas of our state. Right now there is a planning problem with building a new school.  Land was purchased many years ago and it happens to be across from an old graveyard.  This is a problem for many of our Chinese and Indian residents.  The planning commission is working to figure out ways to buffer the school from the cemetery.  This is a scene that is playing out all over the country.  

[TechWife]

Hi! How is the empty nesting going?

 

Nan

 

Overall, pretty good! It's much harder when my husband travels, but I'm slowly figuring out a new routine. I'm also keeping my eyes open for a part time  job, but I'm not in a hurry right now. DS just went back to school for Spring Semester, so we'll see what it's like in the house on Monday afternoon! 

[mumto2]

A new thread has started for week 2.http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/582628-book-a-week-2016-w2-sahitya-akademi-indias-national-academy-of-letters/

 

You can carry discussions over to week two via multiqoute.

[Chrysalis Academy]

So what sorts of things are in the notes? I,m probably being very dim here, but isn,t the poem pretty self-explanitory? It,s an old favourite in our family. Maybe it has deep levels I,m missing?

 

Nan

 

Yeah, they aren't so much necessary for understanding the poem, just fun literary-detective stuff.  Like what voyaging books Coleridge was reading while he worked one the poem, where he got some of his descriptions from, where they were in the world, what, physically, could actually make the sea look green or red or glow, whether it is possible to see a star between the horns of a crescent moon, stuff like that.  It was just really fun things, neat to know if you like that sort of thing.

 

There was an interpretation essay at the end, and I found it interesting too - it talked about the different ways that the poem has been analyzed and understood via different styles of analysis.  The discussion about the Freudian interpretation made me giggle.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Chrysalis Academy