AAR or Barton Reading

[borninthesouth]

i have a 3rd grader who has been struggling with reading for a long time.  She is a little below grade level now.  She has been working with the reading specialist from the local elementary school and it has brought her up a little, but I really haven't seen the significant changes that I think I should see with all the tutoring she has been receiving.  I would do a Barton teacher, but they are all at least a 30 minute drive and I have 4 kids to work with and teach.  So... Is All About Reading similar to Barton?  Can anyone out there compare?  Thanks!!

[sweetpea3829]

I can't compare, but you can do Barton yourself. I have never used it, but have heard great things about it from parents schooling dyslexic students.

[MerryAtHope]

Both AAR and Barton are Orton-Gillingham based. Some feel Barton is better for severe dyslexia, but I've known people to use AAR for severe dyslexia as well. Sometimes it's a matter of finding what works best with your teaching style and what seems to meet your child's needs. Here's an article on All About Reading and Dyslexia. Marianne Sunderland (Author of Dyslexia 101) has used both--you might check out her blog (linked in the article). I'd check out online samples of both programs and try to get a feel for each one. One of the main differences is that AAR separates reading and spelling (taking the view that kids tend to progress at a different pace for each skill, and that spelling will still reinforce reading when done separately), while Barton keeps them together for that reinforcement. Barton includes video seminars which you may find helpful. AAR is more open and go (no need to watch a seminar first). Since Barton combines both reading and spelling, it's important to start with level 1, whereas with AAR, you can possibly test into a higher level (but would start in level 1 for spelling if you use the spelling program.) I don't think you can go wrong either way. 

[OneStepAtATime]

First, I will ask if you have had her evaluated to see why she might be struggling?  There are many reasons a child might be struggling to learn to read.  Knowing the reasons and her strengths and weaknesses can help you make a more informed decision on what to use.  Otherwise you might be blindly hopping from curriculum to curriculum with little progress.  

 

I will also say, in reference to the school tutor, that not all tutors are actually trained to deal with things like dyslexia, so if your child is dealing with something of that nature they may not have the expertise to help much.  My daughter got a LOT of tutoring through her school and could still only decode Clifford books even semi-fluently in 5th grade.  The specialized tutors actually didn't know a thing about dyslexia, which is what she has (even though we didn't know it at the time) and not one tutor or teacher suggested that as a possibility or knew how to genuinely help her.

 

If you suspect dyslexia but have not had an evaluation I would recommend one.  If you already had an eval and the diagnosis was dyslexia, there may have been other things comorbid with that, such as low working memory or poor visual memory or other things that will impact how successful a program is and how long it may take to get her up to speed.

 

As for AAS/AAR vs. Barton Reading and Spelling, as mentioned by MerryAtHope both are Orton Gillingham based so both can be quite useful for a child needing help with dyslexia type reading struggles.  They are actually both excellent programs.  AAS/AAR separates reading and spelling, uses manipulatives, is pretty open and go, and is a bit less labor intense than Barton.  For dyslexics it can sometimes make too many leaps too quickly, though.  For others it works just fine.  Hard to know until you try it.

 

Barton in particular is really overkill for a child that is not dyslexic.  Excellent program.  Don't get me wrong.  I am using it with my kids.  It just isn't needed for neurotypical kids, though.  It breaks things down into much smaller components and approaches each piece from MANY different approaches until they internalize the lesson.  For my kids that was absolutely necessary for unlocking the ability to read.  DD went from Clifford in 5th grade (in other words very little forward progress in her ability to read despite being in a brick and mortar school with small classes, having specialized tutoring, etc) to reading Divergent in mid-7th grade after a year with Barton.  Barton was the key that started her on the road to actually reading.  Spelling improved 100% as well.  HUGE turn around.  Was it easy?  No.  LOTS of work, and some really frustrating days at times, but sooo much better than the instruction she had been getting.  It really is too much for other kids, though.  What is super nice is that It comes with tutor training DVDs so even a layman with no OG training can do this program.  The TM is also VERY clearly laid out.  Even though the levels may seem pricey, if you were paying for specialized OG tutoring for dyslexics, Barton is actually hundreds to thousands of dollars cheaper.  

 

As for where to start, yes with AAR you can test in to see where your child would fit.  With Barton you really need to start with Level 1.  The levels in Barton do NOT equate to grade levels at all.  They are building blocks.  Level 1-3 might be completed within a year or sooner (depends on the child).  For some kids, maybe even a half a year or sooner.  If your child has no other underlying issues and they were tutored consistently, they might make it through the entire program in 3 years.  

 

By the way, Level 1 looks really, really basic, almost like nothing.  In fact, I was so disappointed when it came in I thought I had been cheated.  I almost sent it back.  Turns out that level was absolutely critical to help DD finally learn to read, and was the missing component she never got in school.  A neurotypical child could probably complete the entire level in an afternoon.  With a dyslexic, it won't go that quickly.  Maybe a week or even much, much longer depending on underlying strengths and weaknesses and how severe the dyslexia.  Level 2 is also pretty short and thin but again was critical for helping the kids.  Level 3 is much meatier in length and depth but it can usually be completed within 2-3 months.  Again, though, it depends on the child.  Some may take much longer.  Level 4 is really pretty long and many consider this the hardest level for a dyslexic child to master.   It can take several months to a year to finish.  It is the longest level.  Level 9 and 10 are more for High School level prep so the program doesn't just do basic reading remediation.  It actually gets pretty in depth for prep for High School reading/spelling material.

 

I believe resale value for both programs is quite good.

 

One thing you may consider trying, no matter what program you choose, is the Barton tutor and student screenings.  They are free off the website.  If you as the tutor cannot pass the Barton screening then you may not be able to tutor using the Barton system, or maybe any other OG based system, at least not without help.  The screening is not based on knowledge but sound discrimination, among other things.  If you pass the screening, you are good to go.  If your child cannot pass the student screening then you need to look at using a program like Lindamood Bell's LiPS program first.  Your child may struggle with ANY OG based program until they have been through LiPS or another program like it.  

 

For an example, DD passed the student screening with flying colors.  No issues.  She was able to move through the program right from the beginning.  However, DS did not pass the last section of the student screening.  My mom did a tiny bit of LiPS with him, but it was inconsistent and they didn't go very far before she had me start him on Barton.  He learned the lessons very quickly (much faster than DD), but he struggled with sound discrimination and the program became quite painful for him to move through.  I ended up having to turn him over to a specialized tutor to help him with the sound discrimination issues (even though he is incredibly articulate).  He would have been better off going in depth into LiPS for a longer period of time before starting Barton but we really didn't realize how critical that component was.

 

At the Barton site the screenings are listed below the video box:

https://bartonreading.com/

 

Make certain that you/student are well rested, there are no distractions, no loud ambient noises around and you cannot be interrupted during the screenings.  They are pretty easy to administer and they don't take all that long but you want to be able to focus and hear clearly.  Again, I recommend you give the screening whether you choose Barton or not.  It will give you another piece of the puzzle, if nothing else.

 

Have you read the following books?

The Mislabeled Child  and The Dyslexic Advantage, both by Brock and Fernette Eide

Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz

The Dyslexia Empowerment Plan by Ben Foss

Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl

 

Each of the above have some strengths and weaknesses.  They are not 100% full proof info that will save the day.  They are actually extremely helpful, though, for different reasons.  I highly recommend all 5 if you suspect dyslexia.

 

[ForeverFamily]

You have had some great responses so far and so I will try to not repeat what others have already said but I can tell you my personal experiences with both programs. I used AAR levels 1 and half of 2 with my second Dd and level 1 and the beginning of 2 with my third Dd. I have now switched them both to Barton and they are both now in level 3. Both programs are great for different reasons. As others have said they are both Orton Gilingham based programs so the rules that are taught are very similar.

 

AAR moves more quickly than Barton, although there were times that it seemed to be moving at a snails pace ;-). I usually spent a few days on a lesson to try and give plenty of practice for the new concept being taught. We did the lesson with the letter magnets and played the lessons game/activity. Both girls usually enjoyed the games, I would also have them read words and a couple sentences from the practice sheet at a separate time in the day. There are also lessons, often 2-3, between each new concept, assigning stories from the readers. My kids enjoyed the first vol. in level 1 but after that they came to dread the readers and would complain. I eventually ditched the readers and just worked through the lessons adding in BOB books to increase confidence and fluency. AAR is a lot like AAS (I have used AAS 1-4 with my oldest), they teach the new rule/concept, give you a list of words for you to practice, then you move on to the next lesson, there is also a bit of built in review as well. For some kids this is plenty and works very well. AAS has worked well for my oldest. For my other two it was okay, but my second was struggling to apply rules after moving on to the next rule.

 

Barton teaches those same rules but in a very different way. Not sure if this will make sense but AAR feels like it skims the surface, it teaches the rule and moves on, which is plenty for most kids. Barton digs deep and makes sure the kid knows the rule inside and out. They teach it forwards and backwards. Barton has the kids learning how to take a word and sound out then read it as a whole word. They also make the kids break a word into its individual sounds and then build the word. There is a TON of active practice built in, much more than just a list of words to practice reading. So far one lesson takes us a whole week to get through, so it is not a quick program to work through either but it is extremely thorough. My daughter who was having a very difficult time with blends, she would mix up the sounds like s-t and read it as t-s, she was able to practice this skill over and over and now she has improved a lot. So far we love Barton it has made my two Dds slow down, stop guessing, and actually focus on the word in front of them. One other thing I love about Barton that AAR did not do is having the kids practice reading nonsense words in addition to real words making it difficult to guess.

 

I don't have any answer as to what program will work best for you, but I am hoping my thoughts on both will be helpful. Both programs are excellent choices.

[ElizabethB]

What did you use to teach her and what are typical errors or struggles?

[TheAttachedMama]

I think for some kids with dyslexia and learning challenges, AAR can be a GREAT program.  I highly recommend it.   My son and daughter (who are both mildly dyslexic) had great success with it.   I will say that learning to read was still a very slow and arduous process for both kids, but I couldn't have done it without AAR. 

 

Like ElizabethB said, it really depends on what the root cause of the reading issue is though.   THAT is why remediation in  reading can be so challenging.   It is really a complex process where so many different things need to work together in order to input language into the brain through reading.   You have to figure out what is causing the problem so you can target that specific area.    Is the problem a lack of phonic instruction?   Is the problem a vision problem (tracking or convergence issues)?  Is the child able to differentiate between similar symbols (b, d, p, h, n, etc.)?   Does the child have problems breaking longer words into syllables when decoding?   Is it an auditory processing problem?   Is it a reading comprehension or fluency issue?  And on and on and on.

 

To answer your question about AAR though...

 

AAR is a very systematic, thorough, and easy to teach program.  My son especially REALLY needed a multi-sensory approach to learning to read.  A simple phonics program like Ordinary Parents, or Phonics Pathways, or Explode the Code was not effectual for him.   He needed the alphabetic code broken down much further; he needed to progress at a slower pace; he needed to manipulate words and sounds physically using the letter tiles.   NOW---for some kids with dyslexia or language learning problems, AAR even goes too fast!   (Even though it is comparatively very gradual and slow compared to most programs.)   For those kids, I think the next step would be Barton.   It goes much slower than AAR does I think.  (I have not used Barton.)

 

I did have to make some modification to AAR  in order to make it work for my family.   I started out using it exactly as written, but the word cards started to inadvertently cause my son to read words by sight instead of sounding through them.   So we started skipping all of the word cards and just using the letter tile magnets to read words.   

 

The AAR readers also did not provide him with enough scaffolding and practice.   After we moved onto AAR 2 or 3, the reader level jumped so that they felt VERY hard for my son.   The sentences were so long that by the time he read through them, he couldn't comprehend what they were saying.    So, I next started trying to have him read and re-read the stories.   HOWEVER---that didn't work great for my son either because he has a crazy good memory.  He can memorize a story after just one reading.   So he would memorize the story, but wasn't making much progress learning to read things that were new to him.   In short, the AAR readers just didn't provide enough practice for my son to make any gains in learning to read books.

 

For that reason, I had to supplement AAR with the "I See Sam" readers.   They didn't line up exactly with the phonetic concepts, but they were pretty close.     The I See Sam readers are fantastic.   Combined with AAR, my son went from a K reading level to a 3rd grade reading level in about 18 months time.   They were like a 1-2 punch!  :)

 

Overview of the "remedial" reading program that worked for us....

I post this with a note of caution.   This is what worked for MY children based on their individual weaknesses in learning to read.  But it took quite a bit of trial and error to iron out a solution for my kids.   I can't even tell you how many products we went through until we found a combination that worked.  We also had to go through some vision therapy before we started all of this.  So this may or may not work for others.

 

We did 2-a-day reading lessons to keep the lessons short and sweet but make as much progress as possible in a short amount of time.   We cut down on other subjects, and made learning to read our priority for several months.

 

Reading session 1:  Phonics (20 minutes long)

Each session would start by having my son review previously learned phonograms or syllable division rules. 

Then we would either....

1)  Teach a new AAR phonics lesson using the letter tiles on a magnet board, OR...

2)   Read through the AAR fluency sheets until we finished them  (note:  I also sometimes used a very small business card with a notch cut out at the corner and moved this along the fluency sheet to only reveal one sound at a time in the words.  This was to break a habit of sight reading that he had previously developed and help with tracking.  This is a method recommended by the reading program Dancing Bears.  I had previously tried Dancing Bears, but I found the phonics lessons in AAR to be much more thorough and easy to understand personally.   I did take away the cursor method from Dancing Bears though and used it in AAR which was very helpful.)  

 

Any words my son struggled with would be spelled with the magnet tiles, and I would have him physically touch each tile as he made the sounds blend together.   This was key.  

 

We would go through this process for at least 20 minutes or until my son showed signs of getting tired. 

 

Reading session 2:   Practice reading. (15 minutes)

After our first reading lesson, we would switch gears and do another subject for awhile to give his eyes a break.  (Something that didn't require writing, table work,  or anything like that.)   I might read to him for awhile or we might clean the house or go for a walk, etc.  Just something different.

After that, we would have his second reading lesson where he would practice reading through the I See Sam Readers.   We went through all of these books.   I would have him read each story twice.  Sometimes we would repeat books or levels if he was still struggling.   The books gradually (SO very gradually) increase in difficulty and length.  The font also gradually (so VERY gradually) gets smaller throughout the levels.  

 

I haven't found anything like these readers because they spoon feed the alphabetic code in VERY small doses and then just practice it over and over again.   They were a key part in our remediation. 

 

While we read these, we kept the AAR magnetic letter tiles close by.   ANYTIME my son guessed on a word, I had him build it with the letter tiles and blend them together while touching each tile.  (My son tried to guess a lot.)   We also had lots of talks about how guessing was a poor strategy to use.  

 

My son also had a problem of switching sounds inside a word around and putting them in a different order.   When he did that, we would also build the word with tiles and physically touch each sound in the right order and make the sound.

 

He also had a tendency of skipping small words in the sentence.  Anytime he did that, we would physically touch each word with our finger reading each one at a time.

 

We also occasionally used the Dancing Bears Cursor method with the I See Sam books.   (See getting started guide on this page for explanation of the cursor method / notched card use with I See Sam) 

----

 

After that process, my son started reading through the Sonlight 2nd and 3rd grade readers.  (Not doing their language arts....just books.)    I like Sonlight's list because they are really good books and Sonlight staggers very easy books with more challenging books.  This is a good way to up someone's reading level over time--but still keep things fun.

 

My son still was reading very slowly and choppily.   So we did a lot of work on fluency.   Repeated readings, modeled reading together, etc.   We started out reading for 15 minutes per day and my son gradually worked it up until he could read to me for 30 minutes per day.   That may seem like a lot, but I haven't found any other way to build up his fluency.   And doing that has worked wonders for him!!  

 

After that, we then kept our 30 minutes a day of assigned reading (aloud) from Sonlight's list.   Then, we schedule another periord per day where he can read anything he wants---but still has to read.  

Edited December 30, 2015 by TheAttachedMama

[KSinNS]

Another plug for getting an evaluation done. Not every reading/spelling problem is dyslexia. For my struggling readers, it turns out the problems were ADD and fine motor skills (so they can't spell and write at the same time.) Neither appears to have any significant dyslexia, and what the problem is will really change how you try to fix it.

[borninthesouth]

Thank you all for your replies!  You have each supplied me with so much to go on.  I was leaning toward Barton before, but just didn't want to put AAS aside if that may work better.  I will do a little more studying and decide.  I have not had her tested, but feel very certain from reading and studying that she is mildly to moderately dyslexic.  I have struggled with whether to have her tested or not because it is so very expensive where I live and insurance won't cover it (about $2000).  She does pretty well in math and can memorize math facts and oral-auditory facts.  Her struggle is mainly reading and spelling which she is in 3rd grade and right below a 3rd grade reading level.  So, whatever is going on it is not sever.  I just want to help her along and get her to read more confidently.  Many of the public school teachers I speak with her do not believe in dyslexia and her tutor does not think she is dyslexic.  I guess that is a big part of my problem.  I believe that it is very obvious that the child is dyslexic and it kills me that they are sweeping it under the rug.  I'm thinking about having her tested by someone trained in dyslexia and not a child psychiatrist-- much less expensive, but will that find the root of the problem?  So many questions and it is not always easy to get all the answers.  I will definitely try some the books on dyslexia.  I think it just becomes overwhelming with 4 kids and each so different with different needs.  Happy New Year to all :)  

[OneStepAtATime]

Thank you all for your replies!  You have each supplied me with so much to go on.  I was leaning toward Barton before, but just didn't want to put AAS aside if that may work better.  I will do a little more studying and decide.  I have not had her tested, but feel very certain from reading and studying that she is mildly to moderately dyslexic.  I have struggled with whether to have her tested or not because it is so very expensive where I live and insurance won't cover it (about $2000).  She does pretty well in math and can memorize math facts and oral-auditory facts.  Her struggle is mainly reading and spelling which she is in 3rd grade and right below a 3rd grade reading level.  So, whatever is going on it is not sever.  I just want to help her along and get her to read more confidently.  Many of the public school teachers I speak with her do not believe in dyslexia and her tutor does not think she is dyslexic.  I guess that is a big part of my problem.  I believe that it is very obvious that the child is dyslexic and it kills me that they are sweeping it under the rug.  I'm thinking about having her tested by someone trained in dyslexia and not a child psychiatrist-- much less expensive, but will that find the root of the problem?  So many questions and it is not always easy to get all the answers.  I will definitely try some the books on dyslexia.  I think it just becomes overwhelming with 4 kids and each so different with different needs.  Happy New Year to all :)

If an eval is too expensive through a neuropsych you might see if you have a Scottish Rite within driving distance.  The reason for a full evaluation instead of just focusing on dyslexia is to tweak out the various strengths and weaknesses, to look at the child as a whole and how the parts fit together.  If you only assume dyslexia, but you really don't know WHAT the issues may be, it would be kind of like trying to determine if a dress you want to buy will be a good choice for an event you are attending but you only look at the fibers of the sleeve, and maybe only through a microscope.  There is so much more going on with that dress than just the sleeve fibers, KWIM?  Maybe there are cheaper places to get an evaluation.  I would consider looking, but it doesn't sound like she is that far behind.  It just helps to have the bigger picture when possible.

 

For instance, I didn't know until after our eval that DS needs color to function better.  His comprehension dropped off the map when he was working with black and white pages and zinged way above grade level when working with pages with color.  DD tested as functioning like a 35 year old with regards to spatial relations.  We had no idea she was so strong in this area.  These things affect how material is presented to them and what areas we need to work harder on.

 

I realize with 4 kids this can be truly overwhelming.  I find it overwhelming at times with just two.  Huge hugs.  You are doing the right thing by questioning and seeking answers.  Since your child is not that far behind, she may only need some OG based tweaking.  You could certainly at least give her the screening for Barton, just to confirm that there are no underlying issues with sound discrimination, etc. that would make AAR or Barton or another OG based program difficult.  That would be free and you can do it in your own home.  

 

In fact, you could start her on Barton and see how she does.  Maybe just run her through the first three levels.  See if there is any improvement.  After that you might be able to switch back to AAR.  The first three levels of Barton are sometimes the missing components for mildly dyslexic children and they may do well with other programs after that.  Also, the first three levels wouldn't be a huge commitment of time as long as she doesn't have any co-morbid issues tripping her up, although I realize the cost would be high.  They resell well, though.  Just the first three levels might be enough to at least get her up to grade level in functionality while you decide if evals are necessary.  

 

I also think there is a policy in place that if your child breezes through Level 1 really, really quickly you can just exchange it for Level 2 instead of having to shell out more money for the next level.  Others have posted that, so I don't have personal knowledge, but it is definitely something to look into.  If your child is actually NOT dyslexic and is neurtotypical, she should just breeze through Level 1 very quickly.  Doing the first three levels of Barton won't hurt an NT kid at all.  Just go pretty quickly so they don't get bored.  In fact, I wish I had had something like Barton as a kid.  I learned to read very early but having now been doing Barton with my kids there are a lot of spelling and pronunciation rules that make soooooo much more sense now.   :)

 

:grouphug:   :grouphug:   :grouphug:   :grouphug:

Edited December 31, 2015 by OneStepAtATime

[borninthesouth]

Thanks again so very much.  I need those hugs.  I will keep looking for a way to have her tested.  I have another child that STRUGGLES with math and I would like her tested too.  So, I won't give up trying :)  Happy New Years to all!!  And thanks ever so much!