...

[Tsuga]

I didn't want to "like" your post bc it didn't seem appropriate, but I wanted to thank you so so much for sharing this.

 

I feel like I was doing exactly what you described and I am so hoping I am not too late to fix things. 

 

I hope and I think you are wrong and that your relationship with your kids is not damaged forever.   I think the fact that you realized that while they were still kids and made changes will make huge impact on them.  At least I really hope so.

 

 

 

Oh, feel free to "like"--I don't take "likes" too literally.

 

I hope our relationship isn't damaged permanently but one thing I do know is that they are much more skilled at talking back and avoiding chores than any other kids I know. Like my partner's kids seem to think that chores are not this thing they fight about. He asks them to do something and they do it. Like magic. Like they actually don't want to upset him.

 

My children know that there's only so far I will go, that I've already gone to my room and cried about being a terrible parent, so they have nothing to lose at this point. And you can tell!

 

I was determined not to raise entitled kids, but they don't seem to feel obligated, first of all, because everyone they know that works a lot actually does have a maid, and second of all, they seem to think (rightly I suppose) that if I care so much I should to it. Like, "when it's my house I'll do it" and who can blame them? I thought the same. Nothing I can do will ever make them care about the place I am responsible for, because I'm responsible, not them.

 

I also think that it confused in their minds "what it means to be a good kid" (because when they said 'no!' I would react to the 'no!' but they could not, at two, distinguish that from sweeping) and "what it means to be responsible" and "what it means to take care of one's self".

 

It all got put into this psychological bucket, "random stuff that mom asks me to do for what is IMO no good reason".

[Word Nerd]

Do yourself a favour and don't apologise, ok?

 

Leave her thinking you'll chew her out again if she can't mind her business.

I agree. Hopefully she learned to keep her mouth shut last time.

[Deb in NZ]

When I first read your list of jobs, I thought "Wow, that's heaps for a 2yo."  But thinking back to when dd was a toddler, I seem to remember her doing many of those things on a regular basis.  By the time ds#2 was born I had a list of "jobs" that each child started at each age (i.e. 1 = I can pick up things, 2 = I can set the table, etc.) I forget the exact list as this way a l-o-n-g time ago, but none of these jobs were expected, but instead we used them as a guide to teaching self-care & family-care.  I distinctly remember dd learned #1 a little too well.  Dh was working off-island for weeks at a time during her first year.  One week a couple pairs of my shoes disappeared.  I asked all over the company housing compound to see if I'd left them at someone's house, but no luck.  When I went to do the laundry a few days later, I found them in the hamper.  Dd knew we put her dirty clothes into the hamper each evening as we prepared her for her bath & bed.  She must have thought my shoes looked dirty & needed a wash.  At this time she would have been 12 months at the most as we moved internationally before she was 14 months old.  By 2yo dd was helping to hang the laundry (I had her hang up the cloth wipes & wash cloths on a really low line while I hung up the nappies & other laundry)  She loved this & I was amazed at how careful & neat she was, but I never expected her to do this, she only helped if she wanted to help.

 

None of my dc have been ruined by helping out from an early age.  By the time they were teenagers they all had the skills & confidence to handle all household chores.  Were they expected to do everything every day?  No & as they got older I gradually took over many of the jobs again so that they could focus on academics / sports / etc. that were of higher priority at that time.  

 

As far as know-it-all relatives, a phrase I've used quite a few times is "this works for our family."  As you said that the annoying relatives were cousins, I would just avoid them if at all possible.  They are far enough removed that hurt feelings, etc. shouldn't really be an issue.  

 

JMHO,

[Jerico]

Work is good. And its good for every member of the house to help out.

 

I do think people should be paid for work though, not every chore has to be a payable one. We adults are motivated by money and reward for our efforts. I'd give him a small amount and a 3 fold piggy bank so he can learn about saving, giving, and having a little to spend (later on).

[wintermom]

Honestly OP, I suggest you practice polite and brutally direct ways of telling people to STFU and mind their own !@#$ing business. You are going to need to know how to do both if you are going to remain in the parent-game for another 18 years. In case you don't know, I am firmly in the camp that believes that there is nothing abusive about teaching your able-bodied child to clean up after themselves. There just isn't, and all the cute slogans in the world about enjoying those baby-days are not going to change my mind about that. I don't enjoy my kids any less because they are actually required to do some work around the house. Teaching my toddlers to clean up has actually helped me to enjoy my kids more as they have gotten older because they don't know any different and are very helpful and responsible around the house, thus allowing our time together to be spent being together doing things that we enjoy, vs slogging through backed-up housework.

 

I know I'm going to catch grief for this, but whatever it must be said. If anyone, and I mean anyone compared my child to a "house negro" or called my son "Cinderfella" I'd come perilously close to loosing my civic freedom. Just...no. Absolutely not going to fly with me. I'd have to think very hard about my sons in order to avoid a felony. Very hard.

 

If that is the type of verbally abusive BS you are putting up with, I would march into the next family gathering with my head held WAY high and not apologize because someone clearly deserved to be told slap-off and I'd be proud to have let her have it without strangling her. I agree with Rosie, don't apologize to the Cousin. I think it may be best for everyone if she keeps her trap shut for fear of being told off again.

 

Anyway, I'm going to assume that you have the presence of mind to give your child the means and support to accomplish each task. So whatever, even if your list was 2x as long, I'd say no its not too much for your 2yo, if your 2yo is doing those things. From your posts on this forum, you are clearly in your right mind.

Nobody in their right mind marches a 2 year old to the sink and says "wash your dishes" and stares them down until the task i done.

I'm going to assume that you are providing your child a reasonable and safe way to clean up his little dishes so even washing the dishes if fine by me.

 

OP, you need to grow a thicker skin, set some boundaries and relax. You can't be all things to all people, and your job is to be a wife to your husband and a mom to that kid. You don't owe random people an explanation, justification, apology, allegiance, NOR do you need the seal of approval of every jack-a$$ you encounter.

 

But really, who wants the Official Seal of Approval of a Jack-a$$?

 

:iagree:   Simply "liking" this wasn't enough.   The bolded is so true - you've got 18+ years to weather the storm of comments from others about parenting (and homeschooling, if you go down that road).  There are bound to be negative interactions that pop up, but ones coming from family are usually the most painful.  Be strong! 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I did want to say that I cringe a bit every time I read the title of this thread.  I don't think that two year olds should have to live up to standards of any kind. Perhaps it is a semantics thing. 

[wintermom]

I did want to say that I cringe a bit every time I read the title of this thread.  I don't think that two year olds should have to live up to standards of any kind. Perhaps it is a semantics thing. 

 

I think it's a semantics thing. Every household has "standards" of behaviour, cleanliness, etc. that is quite unique to them. Two years olds can definitely learn where is appropriate to go to the bathroom and where not to, etc. I don't see the OP as focusing on precision standards in any of the tasks she's mentioned.  

[BlsdMama]

I'm feeling really stressed right now and I am looking for a (gentle) reality check.

We are always trying to nudge Jr. towards independence but some vocal members of my (extended) family think that we are pushing him too hard on the chore front and I'm tired of the snide comments and feeling insecure. I would like to get an idea if we are being unreasonable or not.

 

My son has excellent fine and gross motor control, as much energy as any 2 year old and can focus in spurts.

 

Jr gets support but he is held (mostly) responsible for:

• Getting his clothes from the drawer in the morning (we lay them out in advance)
• Brushing his teeth and washing his face (we supervise him)
• Post breakfast clean-up, which is wiping his toddler table, washing his (2-4) breakfast dishes and picking up crumbs from the floor.
• Tidying his toys
• Feeding himself at each meal (wiping the table space where he ate)
• Washing his hands when needed (still needs supervision)
• Putting books away in the basket/ on the shelf (very adept at this)
• Helping clean the bathroom
• folding his clothes, handtowels and towels
• lining up his shoes
• dumping pee from his potty (he poops in the toilet)
• sweeping the outside steps
• setting the table (unless we have a lot of guests. Duh)
• being a "good helper" when asked with misc. chores.

On multiple occasions a family-member has said that I am raising my child to be a janitor, he's going to rebel, and calling him "little Cinder-fella" which just really irks me. However, at a recent gathering an in-law and I got into an argument when Hubby mentioned that we don't reward Jr. for doing his chores (we shy away from punishment and reward in-general). She was appalled that a toddler has "chores" and compared us to Nazis, I don't particularly like this relative anyway, so I snapped back, I'm embarrassed to say that it got so bad that she was crying before the end cause we are "treating the child like a house-negro" (ie, a slave) and setting our son up to burn out from too much stress, order, etc...According to her, kids need messes for creativity, I obviously disagree.

 

Jr is capable of each of these tasks. He does not spend hours and hours cleaning, we are not beating and berating him if he does not do a task as asked the first time. However, he does not always want to do a chore. Sometimes he resists or whines, but we encourage him and help him through the task anyway. However, now I am conflicted about whether I am being too strict or expecting too much. Also now I am dreading the family get togethers in a week because I feel embarrassed and judged and I know that certain members do not approve of the way that we are (trying to) raise our son.

 

 

My son is not "spoiled" but he is definitely doted on. He is a badly, wanted and long-awaited bio-child of two working adults. He has many toys, clothes, books, and has lots and lots and lots and lots of play time. He gets loads of positive attention from us every day. He does not have "chore time" rather he does chores throughout the day/week when told. Nothing takes more than 10 minutes, but most tasks are about 3-5 minutes or less. But, he really does have plenty. He's a very privileged little boy. We try and keep a balance in how we are rearing him.

 

But what do I do? Do I ease up by lowering my standards of expectation for my boy, or do I grow a tougher skin? If that chore list does seem obsessive for a 2year old, then what are more reasonable standards for a 2yo?

 

Man am I dreading the upcoming family gathering...

 

 

My 2yo can do these things.  The difference is a heart difference - our *main* goal is for our children to work WITH and enjoy doing work with their family and the adults in their lives.  This is a long term goal because we believe in enjoying serving those we love and we see this as a long term character training.

 

So, I think that your goal is to teach your 2yo to work WITH you.  Instead of calling it chores around people that this rubs - call him your "big helper."  They get that.

 

It's the nuance of  things that people get hang ups over *or* praise.  It looks exactly the same IRL, folks just like it marketed to them differently.

[GailV]

No, he never did play with mock household items.  It didn't occur to me that play needed to be an imitation of work.  I suppose he did do household "chores" with me as a tot, but it was with real things and he just helped (as much as a tot could). 

 

I will admit, though, that I did go buy him his own feed bucket, as he toddled around after us at barn chores and there was no way he was going to be able to lift 20kg buckets of feed like his dad, no matter how hard he tried. 

 

For the most part, I don't consider fake household items to be very fun toys.  I realise that many people have given their tots fake kitchen things and such -- yet still, the idea of brooms for tots leaves me bemused -- but I never did give him things like that nor would I.  That's not my idea of fun play.  To each her own, though, and you are perfectly welcome to make your own choices for your children's as their mother. 

 

In Montessori the idea is that a full size broom can be hard for a little person to wrangle, so they come up with real brooms that are smaller -- not toys, not "fake", but something that works just as well as the adult-size counterpart.  Which is why they cost so flipping much.  Sometimes you can come up with something in the toy aisle that fits the bill if it works just as well (the crappy ones that fall apart really aren't suitable).  You came up with a feed bucket, which is awesome and something most of us wouldn't need to think about.  

 

By the same token, Montessori recognizes that putting things on lower shelves and providing step-stools helps children do real things within the parameters of their size and coordination limitations.  The adult attitude has to be one of welcoming the child into the world of doing these things rather than commanding them to do it.

[BooksandBoys]

When my eldest was 2 and our only child, he could do all of these things, though he would only remember to do certain things without my encouragement that it was time to do x task. For example, he loves things to be orderly, so he would have lined up his and our shoes many times a day without prompting. I used to think I was lucky that my son was so good at clean-up time. He could, and did, do everything else on your list if I was there doing it alongside him. Alone or without reminders, no way (at nearly 8, he still needs reminders for every task, lots of them if it's not than a one-step task. Turns out he has ASD and ADHD). So, no, if your expectations are delivered in love and without punishment, I think they are fine.

 

That said, my second has a very contrary personality. At 4, even getting dressed is still a battle every day. There is no way he would do those chores now, let alone at 2.

 

My youngest is 2 now. He could do most of those things and would enjoy it. He doesn't because I am now the mother of an ASD/ADHD 7 year-old, an intense, oppositional 4 year-old, and him. I don't have the energy to enforce regular chores with my 2 year-old. He is a happy, helpful child who will do almost anything if asked, so he ends up helping a lot.

 

Edited because I posted before I had finished typing.

Edited December 20, 2015 by BooksandBoys

[Samm]

 

 

 

3) The one who I had a big argument with is a "certified" Early childcare-specialist and a know it all. She has to comment and rate every thing that she sees our child do. She has advise about everything and if I am honest, she annoys me.

 

Also, I think that this cousin she knows that we are the 'weakest link' so to speak. For example, My BIL is a "curse you out first, ask clarifying questions later" type of dad. You seriously do NOT pick at or mess with his kids, ever. Or he will eat you up and might bother to clarify the situation once he's s#it you out later.

 

4) The other couple have both degrees/experience in child-related fields and kids ranging in age from like 10mo to 10 years so they "know what they are talking about" and can't be told different.

None of these rather unhealthy interactions are lost upon the children in who are in theory just trying to celebrate a holiday with family together.  How all you adults handle it is the most powerful modeling tool you are giving the kids to use deal with negative interactions.  Cursing is bad one one.  Dread of holidays is another.  The alpha dog pack leader defense is reactionary but effective.  Is this really the dynamic you want your child to see? 

 

Cousin would have to be a stupid to go at it again with you.  I wouldn't appreciate her constant comments and would ask her to stop whenever it starts.  Even if I were to relax my standards or change up anything for him, I would do it because I thought it best for my child, not because I felt bullied into it.  Do you feel you are inherently wrong?  I don't think you do.

 

Really, I don't know if you child is fully potty-trained or not but I can imagine the cousin comments going off the charts if this milepost doesn't meet her expectations.  Better to nip it right away.

[mathmarm]

@Laura Colin --- you are correct re: the coloring thing. I will be more mindful of if Jr. is "busy" when I ask him to do something.

 

Just to clarify, we are very enamored of Montessorian type practices and our home life/family dynamic reflects that.

We are absolutely not expecting Jr to initiate, self-correct, do those things perfectly, etc.

 

He washes his own breakfast dishes because that is the meal that we have time, space and energy to include him in most fully. But then again he often (helps) prepares his own breakfast with supervision anyway.

 

@Samm, fortunately Jr. wasn't around/awake when I and Cousin got into the argument, but you are absolutely right that the way that I deal with and react to things is important.

 

A Big Thank you to everyone. I feel better for having gotten this "off my chest" and you all have given me things to think about. Essentially things that Hubby has said already, but it helps to hear it again from non-biased people.

[mathmarm]

I did want to say that I cringe a bit every time I read the title of this thread.  I don't think that two year olds should have to live up to standards of any kind. Perhaps it is a semantics thing.

Definitely a semantics thing. Admittedly, I'm not the greatest word smith, as I certainly do not mean anything insidious by the words "chores" or "standards"

 

I probably have chosen the wrong words to use, but it's a semantics issue here. Sorry about that, I'll change the threads title.

[KungFuPanda]

 

 

Jr gets support but he is held (mostly) responsible for:

• Getting his clothes from the drawer in the morning (we lay them out in advance).
• Brushing his teeth and washing his face (we supervise him)
• Post breakfast clean-up, which is wiping his toddler table, washing his (2-4) breakfast dishes and picking up crumbs from the floor.
• Tidying his toys
• Feeding himself at each meal (wiping the table space where he ate)
• Washing his hands when needed (still needs supervision)
• Putting books away in the basket/ on the shelf (very adept at this)
• Helping clean the bathroom
• folding his clothes, handtowels and towels
• lining up his shoes
• dumping pee from his potty (he poops in the toilet)
• sweeping the outside steps
• setting the table (unless we have a lot of guests. Duh)
• being a "good helper" when asked with misc. chores.

 

 

 

I don't think the list is a problem.  It depends upon how you actually carry it out.  If you really expect him to be mostly independent with all this every single day, that might be expecting too much.  If he's naturally inclined to do them, then it's no big deal.  If there are serious stress and battles over getting it done, it might be too much.  

 

Part of your problem may be in how you present this information to your relatives.  I mean, WHY do they even have a list this detailed to pick apart?  Having boundaries means you don't overshare with people who are looking for fault.  In the future, I'd leave all of the self-care stuff off the chore list.  I mean, of course the kid has to be clean, dressed, and not walking around with gross teeth.  I'd reduce some of the other chores to "put things in their place before you move on to another activity."  This is developmentally appropriate.  Every preschool trains kids to do this.  It's not that out there.  As for the few remaining cleaning chores that are left, those are typical Montessori-type objectives.  Educators should be able to see that and have a passing familiarity with the concept.  

 

The list doesn't seem harsh unless the kid is expected to get through it largely on his own every day and there are penalties for not doing so.  If you are ushering him along from one activity to the next, it sounds like life with a preschooler underfoot who wants to participate in whatever you're doing.  Remember, relatives can only use ammunition that you GIVE them.  Practice a little personal security and control the information they get from you.

 

Edited December 20, 2015 by KungFuPanda

[Audrey]

In Montessori the idea is that a full size broom can be hard for a little person to wrangle, so they come up with real brooms that are smaller -- not toys, not "fake", but something that works just as well as the adult-size counterpart.  Which is why they cost so flipping much.  Sometimes you can come up with something in the toy aisle that fits the bill if it works just as well (the crappy ones that fall apart really aren't suitable).  You came up with a feed bucket, which is awesome and something most of us wouldn't need to think about.  

 

By the same token, Montessori recognizes that putting things on lower shelves and providing step-stools helps children do real things within the parameters of their size and coordination limitations.  The adult attitude has to be one of welcoming the child into the world of doing these things rather than commanding them to do it.

 

That's just common sense. 

 

 

Or maybe not.   But it seems so to me.

[OnMyOwn]

I don't know much about Montessori methods, but I love the connection some posters made to it about your activities with your little one, mathmarm. Sounds intriguing.

 

I don't think I required much of my two when they were that little, but it is an interesting approach and as long as it is done in a spirit of fun and lightness and it isn't putting a strain on your relationship, I think it is fine. Sounds like you are a good mom and are putting a lot of thought into this. Oh, how I wish I had a 2 year old again. Those were such dear, special years to me.

[Lolly]

I can't imagine having a 2 yr old wash dishes as a required thing. For fun, sometimes, to splash in the water? Sure. But as a chore, no. I don't expect each person to wash their own dishes after a meal, so it seems odd to me. I mean, do you and your husband wash your dishes separately from each other? If not, why does your son?

We don't wash our dishes separately, but each person is expected to rinse and put their dishes in the dishwasher when they are finished eating. Works great if someone has emptied the clean dishes out!

 

I'm in the do your thing and maybe look at using different vocabulary with family. And, grow a thicker skin. It is very useful in parenting! I've had many people ask how I got my dc to be so helpful around the house. Including a sil who wanted to know when her dc (who were 10 and 12 at the time/mine were around 17-19) would be old enough to jump up and cheerfully help with the dishes after a meal. I sort of stuck my foot in my mouth when I unthinkingly responded with they started when they were just toddling about. It has just been our lifestyle from day one. She got curious and asked about more specific stuff later (like how old when they started doing their laundry when she saw ds putting his in). She was overheard bragging to a friend the next summer about how her dc were doing their own laundry. Some of this comes from homeschooling. They are home and it seems to naturally lead to them helping out more. More time to do things earlier and more often together. I know my mom got us off to school and then managed the household stuff without us around to get in the way. It really is easier to just do it by yourself, but when you don't have by yourself time the littles naturally want to help. As long as you can lower your standards and have the patience, it is really good for their little selves to be allowed to help and learn.

[Audrey]

I loved the Montessori school that I worked at before ds was born. Tiny brooms, low shelves, low coat hooks,and sinks. They served themselves their own snacks, cleaned up, washed out their bowls. The most wonderful thing I saw was that over 50 kids managed to get up and go to the bathroom on their own. No permission needed, and they never clogged the toilets or destroyed the room. Of course there were limits to abilities, but it's amazing what a child can accomplish when he knows adults have faith in him, and understand he has unconditional support. It's a team effort from birth to adulthood.

 

Curious question, Dot.  Does Montessori refer to these activities as chores?  I'm not versed on Montessori, but it sounds like what you describe is encouraging age-appropriate independence and self-sufficiency. 

 

I realise this is possibly delving into semantics, but to me, there is real meaning behind the use of the word "chore" and the use of other words like "skills" and "play."  This is not to say that any one couldn't be part of another, but I have distinct intentions when using those words.