Can we talk math for a minute?

[ByGrace3]

We use MM and I am happy with it. Though it can be tedious at times, it gets the job done. All of my kids are strong in math, and while dd is not intuitively math minded, she has a rock solid foundation from MM. This school year I was a little apprehensive to move forward especially with older dd because she was a semester ahead in MM books and I didn't want her too far ahead for what she was ready for developmental. So we did a good bit of review and slowed down in 5B once we finally started it-- doing 2 pages a day or so instead of a full lesson. It has been going well. Rarely any tears ;) and she does it mostly independently. Now, going into Christmas break I am having this mini unreasonable panic that at our current pace (which is working!) she will not finish 2 MM books this year. Which I knew of course when we slowed down. :lol: I had considered using some of the blue topic books after 5B this year and not even starting grade 6 until 6th grade...allowing her to do prealgebra in 7th, and algebra 1 in 8th. All fine and good right? Until I overheard another mom saying that the track in public schools here (at least where her daughter goes) is algebra 1 in 7th. Now, I think dd could handle prealgebra next year if we used something like Saxon (looking at the placement test I think she would be fine especially if we got through part of the 6th grade MM book this year....but is that the best plan?

 

I have looked at math programs like TC, Chalkdust, and Videotext....are they more advanced than Saxon? Saxon is the go to high school program for homeschoolers around here but we tried the 1st grade and hated it...how does the high school stack up? I do not think this is an AOPS kid....what should we be working towards? An intelligent perfectionist who is easily frustrated but handles math well for the most part-- though she has to work at it. Oh and she is definitely not an auditory learner so I have strong hesitation to use anything purely video based without any kind of textbook...

[Gil]

STOP! Do not jump ship from MM--it's working and working well! Just stay the course. You do not have any reason to suddenly rush forward.

STAY WITH MATH MAMMOTH!!!

Stay the course!!!

We used MM1a-6b (before there was a MM7) and both of the boys were ready for Algebra 1 after completing MM6B.

 

 

 

 

[Gil]

If you want to progress faster through MM, than try going back to doing 1lesson a day or set a timer and work on math for 1hr a day, instead of doing just 2 pages a day.

 

There is never anything to worry about with developmental readiness in school. Unless you are going to refuse to slow down or stop when your kid IS having a problem, then do not slow down in anticipation of them possibly having a problem later on.

 

[HomeAgain]

I would stop and ask yourself why you would want your dd to move so far ahead in math.

 

In high school there are plenty of options.  A normal track goes something like Alg, Geo, Alg2, PreCalc/Trig, Calc.  I see no reason to panic and bump up the sequence, especially if a child may or may not be ready for it.  If, down the line, you find yourself wanting something a little more sped up, you can combine Alg1 & 2 into one year, or do Geometry and Algebra (1 or 2) concurrently.  I wouldn't push Alg1 on a child who wouldn't be ready for it simply because that is what the public school is doing.

[kateingr]

STOP! Do not jump ship from MM--it's working and working well! Just stay the course. You do not have any reason to suddenly rush forward.

STAY WITH MATH MAMMOTH!!!

Stay the course!!!

We used MM1a-6b (before there was a MM7) and both of the boys were ready for Algebra 1 after completing MM6B.

 

I agree! If it's working, there's no reason to change. Your current plan will prepare your daughter well for college entrance. For most kids, getting ahead in math has more downsides than benefits. It's much better for her to know the material well and feel confident in math than to be a year ahead and shaky.

[ByGrace3]

STOP! Do not jump ship from MM--it's working and working well! Just stay the course. You do not have any reason to suddenly rush forward.

STAY WITH MATH MAMMOTH!!!

Stay the course!!!

We used MM1a-6b (before there was a MM7) and both of the boys were ready for Algebra 1 after completing MM6B.

 

We plan to stick with MM through 6th ;) the question is where to go next...we are using the revised versions so after 6th is prealgebra for most...

[ByGrace3]

I agree! If it's working, there's no reason to change. Your current plan will prepare your daughter well for college entrance. For most kids, getting ahead in math has more downsides than benefits. It's much better for her to know the material well and feel confident in math than to be a year ahead and shaky.

So Algebra 1 in 8th is still a solid college prep plan? I don't know what dd will want to do down the road for college but florida schools are incredibly competetive and I want her to be prepared to go where she wants to.

[Tiramisu]

I would stay the course through MM pre-algebra. It's working. Take whatever that mom said about algebra in 7th with a grain of salt. I personally don't think it's advisable for most kids to do algebra 1 in 7th unless they had a lot of options for high school math besides the usual sequence.

 

My oldest who I thought was good at math did algebra 1 in 8th. She was fine through geometry and algebra 2, but then hit a wall in pre-calc. It took two years trying different programs and we never finished the second. If I could do it over again with her, I'd give her a better foundation by spending another year in algebra or pre-algebra. It would not have hurt her at all to have slowed down. I was also great at math until pre-calc. It was a temporary problem and once I got into college it all came together again, but I was just not ready at 16.

 

My third has always had a harder time with math. She could have had algebra in 8th but I decided to spend another year in pre-algebra, and I am very content with that choice. I would not want this dc hitting pre-calc early. This decision was validated with recent testing she had. Her math achievement is surprisingly very good but her visual processing is poor and there's chance she could have more problems the more advanced math gets. She is in a very solid position now. Slow and steady will never hurt her.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Tiramisu

[Tiramisu]

So Algebra 1 in 8th is still a solid college prep plan? I don't know what dd will want to do down the road for college but florida schools are incredibly competetive and I want her to be prepared to go where she wants to.

 

Having been through the college search a few years ago, algebra in 8th is still a solid choice, as is algebra in 9th. In fact, depending on different states proceed with Common Core, algebra in 9th will likely continue as the norm.

 

The thing that's going to matter more than all of these questions is her SAT scores. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Here not all schools even offer algebra for the middle grades.  Algebra in high school can still be part of a sequence for an advanced high school diploma. 

 

I wonder how typical it is to offer algebra in 7th. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh, but then I also wanted to add that algebra before 8th is not developmentally inappropriate.  Really, I think that's a myth.  This is not to say every kid would manage it well, but many younger kids can handle it.

 

I used Saxon Algebra 1 and 2 and that worked out very well. 

[Gil]

We plan to stick with MM through 6th ;) the question is where to go next...we are using the revised versions so after 6th is prealgebra for most...

You go to MM7 and then you go to Algebra. If you want, you can work through Keys to Algebra alongside MM6 and/or MM7.

 

When we used it, MM1A-6B was the complete program. My boys were solid in math. We used Keys to Algebra along side MM6 and afterward the boys were more than ready for Algebra 1. We did a run through of Algebra using a generic text and there was no problem.

 

Now, MM1A-7B is the complete program. Since MM is working for your kids, they should be ready for Algebra after MM7B, but you can certainly supplement with Keys to Algebra, that is what I did  and what I recommend to anyone who wants a little "more" for their student.

 

After you complete MM6B then look ahead. Not before. I'm telling you from my own personal experience that I wish I'd spent less time worrying about what will we do next and just focusing on what we are doing now.

 

I would not drag my feet through MM or any math though, not if my intent was to make sure everything was developmentally appropriate. I would go as quickly and steadily as my student could comfortably manage and when they get to a concept that IS challenging them then I would slow down and work through it slowly. That way they have more time to tackle what is actually a problem without feeling any stress.

 

 

 

[kateingr]

So Algebra 1 in 8th is still a solid college prep plan? I don't know what dd will want to do down the road for college but florida schools are incredibly competetive and I want her to be prepared to go where she wants to.

 

Absolutely. In fact, since many schools require a full four years of math in high school, it's important that you don't run out of accessible math for your daughter to do. For example, I did a quick search and found this page on high school requirements from the University of Florida. In it, they recommend four years of high school math and that students continue to challenge themselves during senior year. 

 

But if you take algebra in seventh grade, the usual track would then be 

8th-geometry

9th-algebra 2

10th-pre-calc

11th-calc

12th--??

 

At that point, it'd be much more difficult as a homeschooler to find good options for a 12th grade math class that's sufficiently challenging. There's always statistics or the AOPS extra classes, but there's no need to squash those in there when the regular sequence fills the credit requirements just fine. I wonder what kids at your local school do for their senior year? 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Absolutely. In fact, since many schools require a full four years of math in high school, it's important that you don't run out of accessible math for your daughter to do. For example, I did a quick search and found this page on high school requirements from the University of Florida. In it, they recommend four years of high school math and that students continue to challenge themselves during senior year. 

 

But if you take algebra in seventh grade, the usual track would then be 

8th-geometry

9th-algebra 2

10th-pre-calc

11th-calc

12th--??

 

At that point, it'd be much more difficult as a homeschooler to find good options for a 12th grade math class that's sufficiently challenging. There's always statistics or the AOPS extra classes, but there's no need to squash those in there when the regular sequence fills the credit requirements just fine. I wonder what kids at your local school do for their senior year? 

 

Here on top of those that you listed, they have 2 trig courses, 2 stat courses, and one can take college courses if needed/wanted.  So there are options if someone started algebra early.  That doesn't happen too often here though because some of the middle schools don't offer it at all. 

[wapiti]

Absolutely. In fact, since many schools require a full four years of math in high school, it's important that you don't run out of accessible math for your daughter to do. 

 

While I agree completely that it is both unnecessary and unwise to rush to algebra 1 in 7th, I'd like to point out for lurkers that for the math-talented, accelerated student who takes algebra 1 in 7th, running out of math is a non-issue and not a reason to be concerned about acceleration when appropriate for the particular student.

 

Some high schools teach AB and BC in consecutive years.  Most schools offering AP calc will also offer AP stats.  While rather few offer multivariable within the school, many have arrangements for DE, which is an option for homeschoolers as well.  (As luck would have it, both my dd's private high school and my 7th graders' charter offer multivariable within the school, but that seems to be unusual.)  Here is Kathy in Richmond's kids' math sequences, an example of what is possible for very accelerated, very talented kids.

 

Eta, for those math-talended, accelerated kids, AoPS has additional courses in nonstandard, discrete math topics that may be an excellent choice and would add a semester or two.

 

Posters on the high school board have advice for how to set up a homeschool transcript that includes high school courses taken prior to high school, whether or not for credit, so that algebra 1 can always be listed.

 

(It'll be interesting to see what happens in the coming years if the Common Core standards stick around, as that is likely to hold a lot more public school students to algebra 1 in 9th, depending on the school.  I suspect it'll make for a much wider spread of math levels at graduation among all students generally.)

 

For OP, why not continue through MM7 and then choose a standard algebra 1 such as Foerster.  There are many choices that are not Saxon.  Check the high school board for the math thread pinned at the top.  If you feel like trying a different prealgebra, Dolciani would be a straightforward choice and of course there are others.  If you are looking for a little more spice in your math but want to continue with MM because it's working so well, perhaps consider something like the AoPS MathCounts class over the summer after prealgebra, just for fun.

Edited December 14, 2015 by wapiti

[MerryAtHope]

So Algebra 1 in 8th is still a solid college prep plan? I don't know what dd will want to do down the road for college but florida schools are incredibly competetive and I want her to be prepared to go where she wants to.

 

Yes, and even Alg 1 in 9th is a solid college prep plan. Not every kid is ready for algebra in junior high, and most schools have various routes for kids to follow. 

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Also, the MM author has a whole discussion on her website of what to do for Algebra.  She lists texts and gives her opinions and the pros and cons of each one.  It's really well done.  So if you've trusted her so far, you might also trust her judgement in algebra texts.  

[AEC]

So Algebra 1 in 8th is still a solid college prep plan? I don't know what dd will want to do down the road for college but florida schools are incredibly competetive and I want her to be prepared to go where she wants to.

 

IMO, yes.

 

Alg1 in 8th is on pace to take Calc as a senior.  I've met/heard-of relatively few students who go beyond calculas while in HS.

 

[Soror]

They way I'm looking at it, either

1-you prudently decided to slow down your dd down in math- this was the right choice and you need to forget about what others are doing

OR

2- hearing the other mom talk as if Algebra in 7th is a normal track has led you to reconsider if you perhaps pulled your daughter back needlessly

 

While it really is best that your child has a nice solid foundation in math  it is also true that some are ready to move forward before others, only you can figure out what is the right path, based on your description it sounds to me that perhaps you pulled her back just out of nervousness(just based on your description which doesn't give any big glaring reasons for slowing down) but sometimes when we post we don't give all the details or (as is usually the case) we all read within the framework of our own biases and experiences. I waffled back and forth about what to do for my son for math for close to a year in the end I was somewhat forced to move on as ds finished the BA book before the next published- I am so thankful for that little push as it was absolutely the right time to move on, to my surprise we instantly felt settled and when the next BA book came out I felt just the smallest twinge to buy it for the sake of nostalgia. 

 

I think Monica's suggestion to look at MM's list is a good one. My own son is quite the opposite as MM was not a good fit for him- except for briefly as a supplement- Jousting Armadillos has been such a success I'm already looking towards finishing out all their books, after that I'm undecided but I should have a year minimum to figure it out- I'm leaning towards another run through Algebra with Forrester's or AoPS maybe, I figure we have plenty of time and going through Algebra again with a harder/more difficult text would likely be a good thing for him.

[ByGrace3]

Absolutely. In fact, since many schools require a full four years of math in high school, it's important that you don't run out of accessible math for your daughter to do. For example, I did a quick search and found this page on high school requirements from the University of Florida. In it, they recommend four years of high school math and that students continue to challenge themselves during senior year.

 

But if you take algebra in seventh grade, the usual track would then be

8th-geometry

9th-algebra 2

10th-pre-calc

11th-calc

12th--??

 

At that point, it'd be much more difficult as a homeschooler to find good options for a 12th grade math class that's sufficiently challenging. There's always statistics or the AOPS extra classes, but there's no need to squash those in there when the regular sequence fills the credit requirements just fine. I wonder what kids at your local school do for their senior year?

Most are dual enrolling and many are full time at the local college by their junior year...

[ScoutTN]

Your post reminded me of a conversation I had with a friend this summer. The college prep tracks in many local middle and high schools here automatically track strong students for Algebra 1 in 7th. My friend was lamenting this because her daughter struggled a bit in 7th and more in 8th (with good teachers) and has come to dread math. She is a bright girl and a solid math student who used to really enjoy it, but who has been rushed by the system.

 

Go at the pace your Dd needs.

 

MM. If it ain't broke....

Edited December 14, 2015 by ScoutTN

[Arcadia]

 

At that point, it'd be much more difficult as a homeschooler to find good options for a 12th grade math class that's sufficiently challenging. There's always statistics or the AOPS extra classes, but there's no need to squash those in there when the regular sequence fills the credit requirements just fine. I wonder what kids at your local school do for their senior year? 

 

Public, private and homeschooler all have the choice of DE after running out of the standard high school math offerings. There is also AP Statistics for those who want to do that in 12th grade instead of doing DE.

 

We plan to stick with MM through 6th ;) the question is where to go next...we are using the revised versions so after 6th is prealgebra for most...

 

There is always the big prealgebra fence straddle thread to read through. You could always continue with Math Mammoth Prealgebra though since MM is working for your child.

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/342798-pre-algebra-fence-straddlers-master-thread/

[fourisenough]

We're using MM7 currently and think it is very well-written. My DD11 is humming right along with no issues. She's good at math, but doesn't love it. Next, we'll move on to Foerester Algebra 1. Since my DD is young, we may camp out on Alg. 1 for more than one year, but at this point, I'm just taking it one day at a time.

 

My older girls both did Algebra 1 in 8th. Oldest has been admitted with scholarships to every college to which she has applied* (still don't have answers from 2 of the 8). Nobody has said she should have done more math/harder math in high school. Second DD is slightly more mathy and will likely take pre-calc as a junior and AP calc BC as a senior. Either/both tracks are perfectly respectable.

 

I would strongly suggest sticking with MM through 7 since it is working for your DD. if she/you think she can pick up the pace, great. If not, keep on with 2 pages per day. Algebra 1 in 8th with great understanding is no small accomplishment.

[Momling]

My 6th grade daughter is in the local public middle school and I had heard some moms talking about their kids doing Algebra in 6th grade. It didn't make sense to me. It turns out the books the kids use (Core focus on math) have three units, each in a small book. One is called "decimals and percents" one is called "fractions and ratios" and one is called "algebra". But it's not a full algebra class, it's just that they're learning some early intro algebra topics appropriate for middle school. My point is that random moms may not really understand the math sequence. And even if they're putting young kids in algebra shouldn't have any effect on what you do. Stick to MM through pre-algebra. It's better to spend more time on the basics now than to rush ahead and end up going backwards because the foundation wasn't solid.

[OvercomingSchool]

My ninth grader used MM through 6b and then started Jacob's Algebra and Life of Fred Algebra. We're going to start Foerester's Algebra II this January.

 

However, I'm going to do MM 7 for ds who will be in seventh next year before she does Algebra I in eighth grade.

 

I don't see the point of lots of advanced math earlier and earlier. Unless you have a truly gifted math student, it is much better to have a great math foundation than a bunch of higher level math classes that just brush the surface. I used Saxon when I was in high school, finishing my senior year with calculus. I got into every college I wanted to get into and had ACT scores to get into lots more. I just don't believe that all these kids in public school are really doing Algebra in 7th grade. If they were, we'd be seeing different outcomes in testing. 

[Tiramisu]

My 6th grade daughter is in the local public middle school and I had heard some moms talking about their kids doing Algebra in 6th grade. It didn't make sense to me. It turns out the books the kids use (Core focus on math) have three units, each in a small book. One is called "decimals and percents" one is called "fractions and ratios" and one is called "algebra". But it's not a full algebra class, it's just that they're learning some early intro algebra topics appropriate for middle school. My point is that random moms may not really understand the math sequence. And even if they're putting young kids in algebra shouldn't have any effect on what you do. Stick to MM through pre-algebra. It's better to spend more time on the basics now than to rush ahead and end up going backwards because the foundation wasn't solid.

 

That is a good point. I've heard the same things because with many programs now, work with variables in introduced earlier than it used to be and people are calling it algebra as though it's the same as an algebra course.