My intense kid might be coming home - UPDATE

[Matryoshka]

Reading the College - EEK and Intense Kids threads over on the Chat board had me nodding in agreement.  I sent my youngest off to 8th grade last year in Jan. because I couldn't take it any more.  She wouldn't get up in the morning (she's also got sleep/insomnia issues), and when she finally did, she wouldn't work with me (I'm not ready - I'll do it later).  But later I had to pick up my other two and start driving them all over - I had no time.  Everything was a fight.  We were both miserable.

 

8th grade in ps went fairly okay.  Her grades were a bit uneven (study skills are a big issue with her - she needs more repetition to really retain, but refuses to study things that long).  At the end of 8th, she had a Lyme flare-up and was on antibiotics for a few months.  The school year started okay.  I think I should not have had her take Honors Bio - it was a favorite class of both my older two, but youngest doesn't seem to do too well with memorization (at least not without more repetition, as mentioned), and her test grades have been not so great.  Her other work in the class has been good.  She's also struggled on the math tests.  Oops, I didn't realize I had to memorize those formulas.  Oops, I read the directions wrong and didn't do the right thing on that section and got it all wrong.   Ironically she's doing the best in what at home were her two least favorite subjects - history and English.  Apparently I taught those really well, and she did retain.  The social side of school is fine - she has lots of friends and enjoys that part. 

 

Now it looks like she might be having another Lyme flare-up?  Fatigue (mostly in the morning) and some joint pain. Or it could be sleep deprivation or that sleep-phase problem (she's really alert at night and won't go to bed when she should, but then also often can't get to sleep for hours when she does).  She refuses to eat well (pretty much wants to live on carbs and cheese), exercise or take vitamins, or anything else that could make her healthier.  She has said she'll try an herbal regimen for the Lyme (from a book someone recommended here), but I'm skeptical she'll stick with it, because BTDT with her good intentions vs. follow-through.  And I think there's some depression and anxiety.  Twice she's had pretty much a panic attack about not being able to handle school the next day because she'll be too tired - even though if she just went to bed and got up on time she'd have the same amount of sleep as if she went to bed after the freak-out and slept late.  I'm thinking the anxiety, sleep problems, and Lyme are all feeding into each other and it's hard to sort the chicken from the egg...

 

Anyway, she has said she's exhausted in school and can't concentrate.  She asked to come home early on Fri. and Mon., and refused to go to school the rest of the week.  The guidance counselor told her she'd have to miss 14 days of school and get a doctor's note before she could get home-tutoring from the school, and it looks like she's on a mission. :huh:  So I'm formulating a back-up plan in case this just blows up (looking ever more likely) that will still get her credits for freshman year.

 

I'm a bit terrified to take her back home.  It was honestly such a relief to have a break from her during the day.  I didn't realize how battered I felt till she was gone.  Whatever plan I come up with has to include getting me out of the teaching role as much as possible, and even better if I could still have her elsewhere for big stretches (the robotics club she's in will help with this - it's multiple days a week in the evening for hours). 

 

I'm hoping I could sign her up for German and Intro Bio (easy course compared to Honors Bio in school) at the CC.  The latter would be hybrid - class online and lab work at the CC.  Maybe English with Center for Lit, math online, History would have to be with me, but I'm willing to give up almost all expectations of output - last year I made her read herself and take notes, which according to her was torture.  So I'm thinking I just go back to reading it to her, she can answer the end-of-section questions, and we watch some videos.  And maybe she writes one paper.

 

And, yeah, I'll have to give up any hope of getting a job, although I maybe can still tutor if I can work around her schedule.  Another part of my worry is that she's just turning 15 and a bit immature for her age, I feel much less confident sending her off to CC than I did older dd at 16 (but everyone thought she was 20).  Younger dd looks and acts her age or younger.

 

Gah, It would have been so much easier (for me!!) if school would just work for her. :glare:   Will this work better?  I've been thinking if she screwed up her high school grades, she could always go to CC later and recover, but if I send her to CC now and she screws up those grades, how does she recover?

 

I'm not sure I have a proper question in here - just a jumbled freak-out.  Anyone with an intense kid with any of her issues want to give me some BTDT advice as to how you got through it with everyone alive?

Edited December 17, 2015 by Matryoshka

[CinV]

Why doesn't she drop from Honors to regular Bio at school?  Kids change from one level to the other all the time.

[Matryoshka]

Why doesn't she drop from Honors to regular Bio at school? Kids change from one level to the other all the time.

She can't. We did an override for her to get into honors (a mistake in retrospect), and in this school if you override you can't go back down. Too bad for you.

[JanetC]

There are a lot of things going on here. But, even if you bring her home the health problems are not going away. Do you really want to add "creating a new academic program" to all the other things you have to work with?

 

I would leave her in school, but work on her health issues, including asking the school for an IEP evaluation if that would help with her passing her classes. (I would definitely have your doctor's diagnoses and evaluations first before deciding that an IEP is worth the work, though -- especially for something like "Lyme disease flare ups" that won't fit in one of the school system's little boxes.)

 

Do her doctors think she is faking the exhaustion because she is "on a mission"? Have you done a sleep study? I have BTDT with a teen who got her sleep cycle out of whack and it's a LOT of work to fix, but so, so worth it in the end.

[73349]

There are a lot of things going on here. But, even if you bring her home the health problems are not going away. Do you really want to add "creating a new academic program" to all the other things you have to work with?

 

I would leave her in school, but work on her health issues, including asking the school for an IEP evaluation if that would help with her passing her classes. (I would definitely have your doctor's diagnoses and evaluations first before deciding that an IEP is worth the work, though -- especially for something like "Lyme disease flare ups" that won't fit in one of the school system's little boxes.)

 

Do her doctors think she is faking the exhaustion because she is "on a mission"? Have you done a sleep study? I have BTDT with a teen who got her sleep cycle out of whack and it's a LOT of work to fix, but so, so worth it in the end.

 

A 504 plan might be what you're looking for. Her health is impaired, interfering with sleeping and concentrating, right?

[Matryoshka]

There are a lot of things going on here. But, even if you bring her home the health problems are not going away. Do you really want to add "creating a new academic program" to all the other things you have to work with?

 

There is a lot going on here.  It's hard to sort it out. 

 

I would leave her in school, but work on her health issues, including asking the school for an IEP evaluation if that would help with her passing her classes. (I would definitely have your doctor's diagnoses and evaluations first before deciding that an IEP is worth the work, though -- especially for something like "Lyme disease flare ups" that won't fit in one of the school system's little boxes.)

 

 

A 504 plan might be what you're looking for. Her health is impaired, interfering with sleeping and concentrating, right?

 

I have talked to her therapist about maybe trying to get her a 504.  The problem is she would need a new round of neuropsych testing, and I've been trying to get that to happen for months - the first person had a huge bias against homeschooling (even though dd currently isn't homeschooling, she was still making lots of assumptions and judgements based on the fact that we had...), and the other place recommended didn't take our insurance.  Sigh.  So I'm not sure how long that would take to get sorted, and she would be waaay behind by then.

 

Do her doctors think she is faking the exhaustion because she is "on a mission"? Have you done a sleep study? I have BTDT with a teen who got her sleep cycle out of whack and it's a LOT of work to fix, but so, so worth it in the end.

 

Well, I haven't said to anyone that she's on a mission.  I'm going to let them figure that out for themselves.  The therapist just mentioned a sleep study, and that's a very good idea, but will probably also take a long time to get scheduled and results from.  What do we do till then?

 

I do have a meeting with the guidance counselor and her dean and I think one other person on Monday.  I'll see what they think/offer.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Matryoshka

[Storygirl]

I have talked to her therapist about maybe trying to get her a 504.  The problem is she would need a new round of neuropsych testing, and I've been trying to get that to happen for months - the first person had a huge bias against homeschooling (even though dd currently isn't homeschooling, she was still making lots of assumptions and judgements based on the fact that we had...), and the other place recommended didn't take our insurance.  Sigh.  So I'm not sure how long that would take to get sorted, and she would be waaay behind by then.

 

 

 

The school will do the evaluations to see if she qualifies for a 504. Unless you think the outside evaluations would show something that the school will not see for themselves, you shouldn't need new NP testing to get a 504. The school is obligated by law to do the evaluations themselves.

[MomOfABunch]

Could she partially enroll at the high school, maybe take afternoon classes (11-2 or whatever), and homeschool/CC the rest of her credits?

If English and History are going well there, do those and maybe an elective? Math and Science at home with online, self paced classes. Derek Owens and Thinkwell come to mind.

Edited December 14, 2015 by MomOfABunch

[Matryoshka]

Could she partially enroll at the high school, maybe take afternoon classes (11-2 or whatever), and homeschool/CC the rest of her credits?

If English and History are going well there, do those and maybe an elective? Math and Science at home with online, self paced classes. Derek Owens and Thinkwell come to mind.

 

Unfortunately, partial enrollment is also not an option.  If I were one district over, it would be, but our town has a rotating schedule so that classes are at different times every day - it makes it impossible to do any kind of partial enrollment.  Even their own DE program that they offer for seniors is all or nothing - if you do DE there as a senior, you're at the CC full-time, because there's just no way to take partial classes when they're a moving target.

 

I can ask them about having her come in later - she'd just always be missing different classes, which could be a positive or a negative depending how you look at it, I guess. 

 

And stuff like Thinkwell and Derek Owens totally don't work for my kids, especially this one.  They just tune out watching videos.  They need the engagement of live classes.  Wilson Hill math has been such a godsend for that reason...

 

[Lecka]

My older son missed some school in 2nd grade, not just like this, but with similarities.

 

I thought he was really sick with stomach aches, though. I didn't know he was having school anxiety.

 

School anxiety is a real thing, and unfortunately, what I was told is that allowing him to miss school increased his anxiety. This is what I saw for him. He was very, very anxious to go back, b/c he thought he was behind from the time he missed with his stomachaches.

 

The first day or two he missed, he probably really was sick. Then he was anxious to go back, but the more he missed, the more missing work, and the more anxiety.

 

So the upshot ----- there is a very nice counselor/social worker type of person at the elementary school. I talked to her and signed a paper for her to talk to my son. He could go and see her if he was anxious, and she was very nice to him. She talked to his classroom teacher. The classroom teacher did some things the counselor recommended.

 

In the meantime, my son has a mild learning disorder that we did not know about. He started getting some accommodations for that, and that helped a lot.

 

At that time -- we were told this could just be an incidence of school anxiety. This is what it turned out to be. He went to school very reluctantly for a year. Now he goes with a good attitude (he is in 5th grade now). He got over it, but it was not easy. It absolutely required me to have faith that he was being treated well at school, b/c I needed to send him and send him with a good attitude. Etc. I needed to send him when he really wanted to stay home but was not sick. He asked to stay home sick a lot. I also got to know the very nice nurse at his school. She told me that part of her job is chit-chatting with some kids and reassuring them, then sending them back to class. She did that with my son, too.

 

I was told there was also a chance my son had general anxiety. At this time -- he does not have it. But, I was told it is very possible he could develop general anxiety during puberty.

 

In the meantime though, there were some family stressors, that are better now, and then his learning disorder continues in its minor way, but he is getting accommodations for it.

 

So, I am reading this from an anxiety point of view, and a my-child-kind-of-faked-illness point of view. He did not *really* fake illness. Really, his stomach hurt. But it hurt from him feeling anxious. I am vague on this, honestly, but I had it explained to me by the pediatrician (when I went to ask for a doctors note for his continued absences) and then I had it explained by the counselor. It is not like it is on purpose, but it is also not a real illness.

 

The pediatrician told me that for my son's age, it was very likely he had a problem at school, either in the learning disorder category, or being bullied, or something. She said I had to make sure the school solved the problem, basically, and come back to her for a follow-up if I didn't figure anything out along those lines.

 

So -- I would be seeing if they see signs of school anxiety, and do they have a program for that?

 

I have never found much information about it besides what the pediatrician and the school counselor told me about it. The school nurse gave me an impression that she has several kids she sees 1-2 times a week who are anxious this way and need a reassurance they are okay to stay in school.

 

So it seems like it is a thing.

 

I was told very strongly that if I kept letting my son stay home, it would make things worse and worse, and leave him further behind. His teacher forgave a bunch of missed work when he started back, this was recommended for him, since he was anxious over the missed work as part of the whole thing. He was anxious about not being able to finish his work, in general, and now we know he has dysgraphia which makes it hard for him to write quickly, so he gets accommodations for that, and that lets him finish his work more quickly and keep from getting behind, and then that keeps him from falling back into this cycle.

 

He was in it a little bit earlier this year, and he has more accommodations now because of that. I talked to another teacher about it, and she said she sees with him, that he does well and he is confident when he is caught up. As soon as he gets a little behind, then there comes the anxiety. The anxiety makes it very hard for him to do more work ---- so he sits there, not working ---- and so he has more late work and is further behind ---- which makes him more anxious ----- which makes it harder for him to do his work. It is a bad cycle for him to get in. But when he is out of it (like now) then he does things much more easily.

 

But anyway ----- that is my experience with my son's school avoidance/school anxiety. I don't know if that is what is going on, or if it is a factor at all, but it sounds very similar to me.

[Matryoshka]

My older son missed some school in 2nd grade, not just like this, but with similarities.

 

I thought he was really sick with stomach aches, though. I didn't know he was having school anxiety.

 

School anxiety is a real thing, and unfortunately, what I was told is that allowing him to miss school increased his anxiety. This is what I saw for him. He was very, very anxious to go back, b/c he thought he was behind from the time he missed with his stomachaches.

 

The first day or two he missed, he probably really was sick. Then he was anxious to go back, but the more he missed, the more missing work, and the more anxiety.

 

So the upshot ----- there is a very nice counselor/social worker type of person at the elementary school. I talked to her and signed a paper for her to talk to my son. He could go and see her if he was anxious, and she was very nice to him. She talked to his classroom teacher. The classroom teacher did some things the counselor recommended.

 

In the meantime, my son has a mild learning disorder that we did not know about. He started getting some accommodations for that, and that helped a lot.

 

At that time -- we were told this could just be an incidence of school anxiety. This is what it turned out to be. He went to school very reluctantly for a year. Now he goes with a good attitude (he is in 5th grade now). He got over it, but it was not easy. It absolutely required me to have faith that he was being treated well at school, b/c I needed to send him and send him with a good attitude. Etc. I needed to send him when he really wanted to stay home but was not sick. He asked to stay home sick a lot. I also got to know the very nice nurse at his school. She told me that part of her job is chit-chatting with some kids and reassuring them, then sending them back to class. She did that with my son, too.

 

I was told there was also a chance my son had general anxiety. At this time -- he does not have it. But, I was told it is very possible he could develop general anxiety during puberty.

 

In the meantime though, there were some family stressors, that are better now, and then his learning disorder continues in its minor way, but he is getting accommodations for it.

 

So, I am reading this from an anxiety point of view, and a my-child-kind-of-faked-illness point of view. He did not *really* fake illness. Really, his stomach hurt. But it hurt from him feeling anxious. I am vague on this, honestly, but I had it explained to me by the pediatrician (when I went to ask for a doctors note for his continued absences) and then I had it explained by the counselor. It is not like it is on purpose, but it is also not a real illness.

 

The pediatrician told me that for my son's age, it was very likely he had a problem at school, either in the learning disorder category, or being bullied, or something. She said I had to make sure the school solved the problem, basically, and come back to her for a follow-up if I didn't figure anything out along those lines.

 

So -- I would be seeing if they see signs of school anxiety, and do they have a program for that?

 

I have never found much information about it besides what the pediatrician and the school counselor told me about it. The school nurse gave me an impression that she has several kids she sees 1-2 times a week who are anxious this way and need a reassurance they are okay to stay in school.

 

So it seems like it is a thing.

 

I was told very strongly that if I kept letting my son stay home, it would make things worse and worse, and leave him further behind. His teacher forgave a bunch of missed work when he started back, this was recommended for him, since he was anxious over the missed work as part of the whole thing. He was anxious about not being able to finish his work, in general, and now we know he has dysgraphia which makes it hard for him to write quickly, so he gets accommodations for that, and that lets him finish his work more quickly and keep from getting behind, and then that keeps him from falling back into this cycle.

 

He was in it a little bit earlier this year, and he has more accommodations now because of that. I talked to another teacher about it, and she said she sees with him, that he does well and he is confident when he is caught up. As soon as he gets a little behind, then there comes the anxiety. The anxiety makes it very hard for him to do more work ---- so he sits there, not working ---- and so he has more late work and is further behind ---- which makes him more anxious ----- which makes it harder for him to do his work. It is a bad cycle for him to get in. But when he is out of it (like now) then he does things much more easily.

 

But anyway ----- that is my experience with my son's school avoidance/school anxiety. I don't know if that is what is going on, or if it is a factor at all, but it sounds very similar to me.

 

Yes,I think this could be part of the puzzle.  The problem is that with an (almost) 15yo, you can't send them if they refuse to go.  They're bigger than you, and way more stubborn.  A 2nd grader you can still reassure them, they still trust that mom knows best, and if necessary carry them to the car.  Teens think they have it all figured out and you know nothing.

 

We had the meeting.  The school was actually very nice about everything.  I need to get doctor's notes, from either the pedi or the therapist, not even sure which. They even said if the doctor thought it would help to drop Honors Bio, they could be open to it.  But they think she might be coming back soon, at least in the afternoons.  This is also what I think she should do.  But in the car (not to them) she said she didn't want to.

 

Aaah. I have to deal with my own feelings of anxiety pushing through this - there's a big part of me that just keeps thinking I could submit a letter of intent tomorrow and not have to deal with any of this.  But then I have to deal with her being home again.  But then now she's here anyway and this is stressful too. She should get npsych tested again (I totally forgot to even bring that up in the meeting... oy...), she needs to start on the Lyme protocol (and I'm going to toss in some other supplements that I've tried to get her to take in the past that may help), and maybe she should try antianxiety or antidepressant meds - all of which will take months to see what works and start teasing out the issues and the chicken from the egg...

 

I am going to try hard to get her to go to school at least part of the day tomorrow, and on the parallel path, I think I'll try to have her take the Accuplacer ASAP so that I can see if CC is even an option as a back-up.  As I said in a PP, asynchronous online classes or video lectures won't work for her, so some mix of live online and CC will have to be what happens if she did end up coming home.  Where she still has outside teachers and accountability, just with a much more flexible schedule.  I would need to stay out of the line of fire...

 

[Lecka]

I know what you mean with the teenager thing. Just the difference between having a 2nd grader and having him in 5th grade now ---- I just cannot make him do things in the same way, he is older.

 

I didn't quite carry him to the car, but I had to dress him a lot when he would not dress himself. He would be miserable in the mornings.

 

It was so hard on me.

 

But yeah ----- I definitely had the mom thing going for me in a way I don't even have it now, in 5th grade.

 

Could your husband be any help?

 

My husband is never home in the mornings before school, and at the time this was going on, he was deployed, which was part of the problem.

 

But now he wants to impress my husband by doing good at things, so that would probably help *if he was at home.*

[Matryoshka]

I know what you mean with the teenager thing. Just the difference between having a 2nd grader and having him in 5th grade now ---- I just cannot make him do things in the same way, he is older.

 

I didn't quite carry him to the car, but I had to dress him a lot when he would not dress himself. He would be miserable in the mornings.

 

It was so hard on me.

 

But yeah ----- I definitely had the mom thing going for me in a way I don't even have it now, in 5th grade.

 

Could your husband be any help?

 

My husband is never home in the mornings before school, and at the time this was going on, he was deployed, which was part of the problem.

 

But now he wants to impress my husband by doing good at things, so that would probably help *if he was at home.*

LOL, the poor husband has done as much as he could. He's actually the one who gets up, gets her up, makes sure she eats... she'd have just yelled at me that she needed more sleep. Having him do it was working until the Lyme/sleep deprivation/anxiety or whatever the combo is caught up with her.

 

My other kids have always gotten themselves up for school. It's just this one...

[Matryoshka]

So, I think she's coming home.  She hasn't been back to school.  She did take the Accuplacer at the CC yesterday and scored well enough to take college-level classes (they no longer allow DE students to take remedial classes, so that's very good she scored that well).  I think the key to making this work is have her take all outside classes, just more flexible and with more down time - ie, not all starting at 7:30 am and continuing all morning when she's at her most exhausted.

 

From a physical standpoint, we've started the herbs (and some supplements while we're at it) for the Lyme, I've got the name of a sleep specialist (still have to make an appt).  I think this will at least give her the time to get well without missing the year.  I'm also continuing to try to find a neuropsych that will take my insurance - it would be great if she could get an accommodation for untimed tests (good thing the Accuplacer is untimed).  Next semester at the CC doesn't start till the end of January, so if I pull her now, she should also have some time to deschool and hopefully we can make a dent in the Lyme...

 

I still haven't said anything to the school.  I think I'd rather get all my ducks in a row and present it as a done deal.  Fortunately the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing in the school system, and I should be able to submit my paperwork and get approval without the high school having any idea.

 

So now I guess I'm going to be asking lots of questions about outside high school classes - I'm fairly sure we'll do mostly CC, but a couple of classes a year will likely be online - but I'll start new threads for those...

[JanetC]

Good luck! I hope that she heals a bit during her break and has a great semester.