What do you guys think about early spelling instruction?

[Sarah0000]

I've read a few accounts of folks who started spelling with their young, accelerated kids after they were reading well, but spelling was still a flop. IIRC, these were all users of a spelling rules program, usually AAS.

 

I wonder if a pattern and visual based spelling program is more likely to work with young kids. Do you think there's a correlation between the type of spelling and the age of the child, regardless of reading level?

 

I'm considering starting spelling by patterns (partially to firm up phonics since he never had a phonics program and because it would be easy to add it to the copywork he's already doing) and then when he's closer to the usual spelling age starting a spelling rules program like HTTS.

[rebcoola]

My experience was that sequential spelling which is pattern based  did not work for my DD in 1st grade.

[UCF612]

My son started AAS in first grade and did wonderfully. He is a strong speller now in 3rd. I do think he has some natural spelling ability but he isn't perfect at it. I think what works for one doesn't always work for another.

[kalusignan]

I've read a few accounts of folks who started spelling with their young, accelerated kids after they were reading well, but spelling was still a flop. IIRC, these were all users of a spelling rules program, usually AAS.

 

 

How young of a kid are you referring to? My personal opinion is to start spelling with an average kid in 1st grade. MAYBE I would consider it in K for an advanced reader.

 

I LOVE AAS, btw. If you're looking for something to give a phonics foundation that he never had, that would be a great choice.

[Slache]

We're half way through RLTL I at 5. He's an awesome speller.

[Tawlas]

I don't know.  I really believe that there are natural spellers and natural readers and it doesn't really have anything to do with the program, but the child. I don't have a ton of experience mind you: two dyslexics using AAS (and only just starting level 3) and a little one who's already reading at fourth or fifth grade level in AAS1, so by all means, take this with a grain of salt.  I plan on completing the first book with that younger to get absolute basics like segmenting and syllabication clearing laid, then reconsidering his next move.  I think for him, it would be overkill, he doesn't need to learn the rules for every word since he has a good memory for what looks like - spelling instinct, if you will.  The two dyslexics, however, they need that kind of structure and review.  One of them started AAS1 in grade 1, the other in grade 2.  

[Sarah0000]

He just turned four. I realize that is very young. We've been doing the samples of Spelling You See this week. The spelling words in level A and B are too easy for him, but he loved the nursery rhymes copywork. We'll be trying out the C sample as well.

He can spell CVC words and words with the more common phonograms like th, sh, oo. He spelled "ninja" as "ninga" though. He spells better when he writes rather than tiles.

 

So I was thinking of using ABCs and All Their Tricks to go through the groups of words in a somewhat SYS way. So first I'd write a few words from the group and he would highlight whatever the focus is suppose to be. Then I would give him a few new words to spell from the same group. In this case I would probably not line up his copywork like SYS does because that would require too much work on my part. But because he's so young I thought it would be better to stay away from a scripted program, at least for long term use. He asked to copy out his favorite poems anyway and I'd prefer he had the flexibility to choose his own copywork if he wishes.

 

Does that sound like a good, gentle beginning to spelling, or does it sound more like a waste of time? BTW, he only does this kind of work for about 15 minutes a day (the other 15 minutes of his seat work is handwriting), and he chooses between math and an LA activity. It feels like the informal phonics stuff I had been doing with him though isn't any use anymore. He just started reading Magic Tree House books, although his stamina only allows for about half a page at a time.

[MerryAtHope]

I would only start spelling that young if the student was driving the interest and wanting to learn more. If he is, great! If not, I'd wait. If he's interested though, then I doubt it would be a waste. Do it when he enjoys, take a break when he's not as into it, and see where it goes. If he's having fun, it sounds like a win-win to me.

 

I have known 4 year-olds who used AAS and did great with it (it actually isn't just rules-based but teaches phonetic, visual, and morphemic methods as well, and the kinesthetic tiles often appeal to a variety of learners). So it can work there too. It actually does some of what you are describing--has words that follow a certain pattern, encourages the use of strategies that apply to that pattern (such as learning when G can say /j/ or focusing on visual strategies if the pattern is visual) and incorporates dictation for you.

 

I actually think "ninga" is pretty smart for a 4 year-old. It shows that your son understands that G can stand for the /j/ sound, he just doesn't know that there are only certain times when it can. In fact, G is used 3 times as much as J is for the /j/ sound (which I know from The ABC's and All Their Tricks.) Since he's reading pretty well, he may have already picked up on seeing more /j/ words using the letter G. 

 

Anyway, have fun with your son, sounds like a smart young boy!

Edited December 14, 2015 by MerryAtHope

[waa510]

Just because it didn't work for a *few* folks doesn't mean that using a program like AAS after phonics instruction is a bad idea. For me, with both my kids, after (and towards the end of) phonics instruction they were concurrently learning how to write letters well enough for someone to read. Both of my kids were starting to try to spell words on their own and getting very frustrated when they didn't know how to spell the word correctly. Even worse, if they went back to read the story they wrote and couldn't figure out what it said! Lots of tears and tantrums ensued with pleading for spelling instruction. To help them out with their frustration, I started rapidly going through AAS with them. I think for (some) accelerated kids, earlier instruction helps calm their little frustrated minds. Only you know if you have one of those kids on your hands. 

 

I found a phonetic spelling program to work well b/c it reinforced the already-learned phonetic rules. FWIW, we dropped the tiles portion early on as it was just a tool that was getting in the way. Still love the program; the tiles were just not needed for us. When people talk about AAS being a flop, they may have been speaking about managing the billions of magnetic tiles!!! 

[Kiara.I]

I started AAS with my oldest in Grade 2 and my younger in K.

 

My older is doing fine.  I'm giving up on the younger, and waiting for Grade 2.  I cannot be bothered to put in the weeks of review that I think it would take when I could just...wait.  And do it easily next year.

 

However, I'm sure there are children who would thrive doing it younger.  I'm startled by doing spelling at age 4, but, you know.  Whatever works for your kid.

[Arcadia]

At 4, DS11 was already a natural speller while DS10 have no patience for anything academic but he can read :lol:

 

DS10 spells better in German than in English. As he read more he just spell better in english. We did a quick run through the rules using Logic of English when he was 7 and that was it.

 

DS11 loves to find patterns and to figure out word origins. He also read a lot of fiction and non-fiction. He probably memorised most of the words he read unintentionally. He has no interest in any spelling program.

 

Do a spelling program if your child don't mind. Else it is safe to wait until later.

 

ETA:

I used "Uncovering the Logic of English: A Common-Sense Approach to Reading, Spelling, and Literacy". DS10 does not have the patience for a curriculum.

http://www.amazon.com/Uncovering-Logic-English-Common-Sense-Approach/dp/1936706210

Edited December 11, 2015 by Arcadia

[Jackie]

We did the first two levels of AAS when DD was 4, after she specifically asked me to formally teach her spelling. Our experience is that there were only a few rules she hadn't intuited in the first two levels, and she was super-excited about spelling for quite a while but then got bored specifically because she wasn't already learning anything new (even though I was compacting quite a bit). As we were finishing up the second level, she asked to discontinue spelling.

 

I think she would have found the pattern-based programs more boring because they are specifically set up to make spelling feel intuitive, even when it's not. So she wouldn't have felt like she was learning even when she was. This kid wants to feel like she's getting something out of it if she she's going to put the work in!

 

We haven't gone back to spelling yet. Her spelling is decent - phonetic, though not correct. I'll wait until her handwriting is better, then move on to a different rules-based program.

[Ellie]

Methods like Spalding teach children to read by teaching them to spell, so of course if you were doing that with your child, you would be doing "early spelling instruction."

 

If children are taught to read with traditional phonics methods, then no, they don't need formal spelling instruction until they are reading fluently.

[Sarah0000]

What's the bar for "reading fluently"? I had him read some of the nonsense sentences on The Phonics Page and he did pretty well.

[4KookieKids]

Methods like Spalding teach children to read by teaching them to spell, so of course if you were doing that with your child, you would be doing "early spelling instruction."

 

If children are taught to read with traditional phonics methods, then no, they don't need formal spelling instruction until they are reading fluently.

 

This is what we're doing and my k'er went from not reading to reading well and spelling fairly well in 6 months.

[Kerileanne99]

I started my dd on AAS at 3. She was already reading exceptionally well, and is such a perfectionist that she was melting down regularly because she knew exactly when her words were misspelled but didn't know how to fix them.

 

The first levels were way too easy, but she loved learning the 'rules' and logic of it, practicing the writing, and The dictation sentences. I also used the Montessori wooden grammar symbols and she would place them above the words, essentially the beginnings of sentence diagramming.

She thrived on it. We have gone through all the levels of AAS and she is a phenomenal speller. I think she was always a natural speller anyway, but I still believe it was one of the best things we could have done.

There are lots of fun, tiny kids things that make AAS great for the youngest crowd. If you decide to go that route, PM me and I can share a bit of the other things we did to suit her age:)

[Ellie]

What's the bar for "reading fluently"? I had him read some of the nonsense sentences on The Phonics Page and he did pretty well.

 

He can easily read age-appropriate books, not necessarily nonsense sentences. :-)

[Sarah0000]

Well, yes he can read age appropriate books. That's the main reason I've been thinking of starting spelling because I do want him to have some kind of formal LA lessons for preschool and spelling is what's next.

 

I think I've decided on a course. He or I will pick a poem or passage from our read aloud. I'll type it up in a slightly bigger font. He'll read it and we'll highlight (because he loves to highlight) any words he struggles with, prefixes/suffixes, rhyming words, vowel teams, words with y, and anything else I see that looks like he could use explicit practice with. Then I will pick one of these words (rotating through the types) and show and explain others following that same pattern. Then I'll ask him to spell one new word based on that pattern, and one fun word of his choice.

 

I think that's pretty gentle, easy to start and stop, easy to customize, and allows flexibility based on his interest. He'll continue to do regular copywork as well and I'm considering adding in math facts copywork as well. That shouldn't take longer than half an hour a day.

[Sarah0000]

Oh, and I'll type the poem title and author in cursive for him to practice reading cursive, then everything is wrapped up in one neat package.