Jump to content

Menu

Ecology vs environmental science vs molecular and cellular biology?


Dmmetler
 Share

Recommended Posts

These are the three classes DD is most interested in which don't have math pre-recs or co-recs. All three are available as live or hybrid (I'm leaning towards hybrid to limit the number of times a week we'd need to drive down there and allowing more flexibility for DD's research. It also looks like most of the hybrid sections actually have a faculty instructor, vs "Staff", which in my experience usually means grad student). The biology would be largely a review of what she's done with her mentor (she picked that one because it doesn't sound likely to require dissection), the ecology and environmental science would be new, but areas she's got a pretty good background in. She could actually enroll in any of the three now, but I'm trying to hold off until fall. I do want to get the book (or a prior edition) for whatever class is the front runner this Spring/summer to let her read through it before class starts, just to give her a little more background.

 

Also, would there be any benefit in, say, taking the Environmental Science or biology in the fall, and then self-studying and taking the AP exam in the Spring, essentially spreading one course out over a year (and potentially giving DD some extra flexibility for research in the Spring?), or it is silly to take both a college class and an AP in the same subject?

Edited by dmmetler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if I have anything useful for you. But I enjoy reading about your daughter and her exploits. My first thought was that these courses may turn out to be not all that difficult for her, honestly. I can see you are planning carefully and taking steps to help scaffold the transition (like with getting the text to preview ahead of time), but it might turn out to be unnecessary. Sometimes the lack of rigor at the college level where I am surprises me.

 

Depending on your daughter's college plans (if I recall you said these classes would be not part of a degree program), I have had experience and heard anecdotal evidence where colleges are not accepting other colleges' credit (like they'll give the credits but they will only count as electives and not towards any requirement of the ultimate degree) but do give credit for the program for AP courses, making AP courses actually more valuable in a sense.

 

What about taking Ecology in the fall (the only one not associated at all with an AP course). If she gets through that with flying colors, you could consider one of the others in the spring and take the related AP that spring. Around here anyway, spring courses are done before the AP exams with a couple weeks left over to study. I guess that's ambitious, but I think based on your daughter's achievements and her legitimate interest in the subjects it might not be a stretch.

 

I know you are not planning on having her take a course this January, but I wonder about registering for one for just the first two weeks or so weeks before the drop deadline? It would give you a peek at the syllabus and the first couple lectures. It might give you a more accurate idea of how challenging and how many hours of work one of these courses will be for her.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you provide a link or copy the course descriptions so we can better evaluate?  I don't think you can go wrong, but I would lean towards the cellular/molecular biology as in my experience upper-level biology classes always want to see those on the list. Can you ask her mentors or someone else for advice on which class?  It could well come down to which teacher instead of which class.

 

Ecology will likely be the easiest, but I'm strongly biased. I think ecology = common sense.

 

Environmental science could go either way; the one I took my freshman year in college was for upperclasswomen and was tough for me because I didn't have the chemistry background and the team teachers both had high expectations. If it's for non-majors it could be the right level though.

 

Cellular will have lots of memorizing and could be tough from a high volume standpoint. In general I think the intro cellular/molecular courses are the hardest, but again it could be my bias. I think early exposure to that info would be the most helpful on Biology exams.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did Environmental Science in college, then tackedon the math and teaching. ES has a lot of math, complex application math usually attached to organic chemistry. Now she might not be in that class, and she could potentially handle it, but the work load had an intense feeling. Ecology never did. For a first round through, I would go with that one. It would alost guarentee success if she took it seriously. Around here, we have to start from sucess in order to not get a bit emotional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DD''s mentor has suggested ecology as well. As he says, Environmental science tends to be on the negative, and DD tends to obsess that way anyway, while ecology tends tl be more general. He feels she could handle the bio easily, but that it would probably be both boring and challenging-boring because it will have little new content, challenging in terms of workload-particularly since th college she's taking it at has a heavy concentration of pre-med and medical fields where Molecular and Cellular bio is a leveling course.

 

His ideal (and what he's suggested that we pursue) is that the university does offer a herpetology course, as does one of the private colleges. In both cases, the instructor is the same, and her research specialization fits nicely with DD's interests. He suggests that we track this woman down and see if we can possibly get DD into the herp course at one of the two schools-at one it's a 300 level, at the other a 4000 level, because that is where DD would likely really show her level of interest and meet college students who share her interests. And it would serve the purpose of showing that she can handle college work. Unfortunately, the instructor isn't someone who has gone to the conferences, etc, so she doesn't know DD (her resume pretty clearly reads "adjunct who is trying to scrape out enough time and funding for her own research to get a tenure track position-so she was likely going to the conferences a few years ago as a grad student, but can't afford to now). DD can get recommendations from some of the people listed on this woman's vitae as people she's worked with, so he thinks it's worth a try-and even if they don't let DD jump ahead, she may be useful in figuring out which class/instructor would be a good fit.

 

He suggests she try to take the CLEP this Spring, as we'd planned before early college became more than a vague possibility.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Herpetology was my hands down favorite major course in college. Not because herps are my favorite, though I like them, but because it drew on so many biological fields - general biology, ecology, behavioral ecology, evolutionary biology, no bio/genetics, and heavily on phylogenetics/cladistics/taxonomy (which I love), plus geology/paleontology (which was new to me and so interesting I ended up taking more geology courses), and a nice helping of history too. I liked ornithology, loved mammalogy, but I absolutely loved herpetology!

 

I only know a little of your dd's experience and research, but here is my $.02. I agree mo bio/cell bio is saturated with pre-meds and usually a leveling course. If she's up for it I would take it anyway. Everything you study in biology uses the foundations of cell biology and molecular biology (even if it's necessary to transpose the human-centered focus and examples to other species). It is prerequisite for understanding college level genetics and then college level evolutionary biology. All three of which are likely prerequisites to herpetology (if taught at the 400 level).

 

If you are debating ecology vs environmental science I say ecology all the way. I would suggest taking something in geology or environmental science as a complement to ecology, but env science usually only scratches the surface of ecological principles (things like predator-prey graphs, carrying capacity, habitats/niches, succession, biome distribution, etc) because it spends a lot more time on abiotic factors and the human (especially economic and political) factors. However, because there is no math pre-req my guess is this is ecology for non-majors. So, if that is the case i think it better to go for mo bio/cell bio until math is commiserate with major level ecology (usually requires at least applied Calc if not calculus).

 

As far as taking bio for a semester then taking AP bio test here's something to consider. Many colleges will not accept AP credit for freshman biology for bio majors (but give you credit for general freshman biology). You're going to likely have to take 100 level for-bio-majors bio class anyway.

 

Best wishes in all your decision makin!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i would go with your mentor's suggestion. I know your DD has sat in on classes before, but has she done all the work as well (long essays, lengthy weekly lab reports, etc)? I would set her up for success, so Ecology would be my first pick. The next semester I'd tackle Cellular/Molecular, and then the world's her oyster. Generally there are 2 semesters of intro biology all bio students have to do (one is cellular, one is more ecology/evolution). So if that's what her 'ecology' course is, she's getting her prereqs out of the way regardless. I'd go ahead and talk to the herp lady as well and at least get your DD on her radar. She might have some opportunity to sit in on labs/excursions at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She has, and has been e-mailing in for feedback, but since she's not getting a grade, I don't know if she's been getting "good for a kid" type feedback or "good for an undergraduate" type feedback, if you know what I mean-and there has always been the option of letting it slide. That's one reason for waiting until fall-I'm not sure she has enough time this Spring to not end up over her head. I'm thinking we may do no other outside classes next fall until we see how the college classes go.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yep, sounds like a good plan. I believe there are a few of us on here with experience teaching undergraduate biology classes, so asking one of us for an honest assessment on her work level would be easy to do. If your DD made any friends with the other students in her class who make A's/B's, you could also ask them for a copy of their work to compare.

 

Seriously, undergraduates are often TERRIBLE writers, so the bar may not be very high. It is astonishing! Kudos to all the teachers/TAs/parents out there who spend tons of extra effort revising students' papers. All that one-on-one practice of tightening up your child's writing is priceless. You can be an amazing biologist, but in the end you need to be able to express yourself well or you won't be taken seriously.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...