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have you had a (euphemistic) "come to Jesus" talk with your teen?


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We had a few talks in grade 9, after unschooling until grade 8, but they didn't make a difference. Then he went to a summer college engineering program & all of a sudden is much more open to buckling down. We have had 2 talks this year in 10th because the work load is so much more than he was used to.

 

I did start making a detailed checklist for each subject for him, so he can see exactly what needs to be done. Next year, he's DE at the CC, so this is the year to find the work ethic if he really wants to go engineering. We've also chatted a lot about college expectations, & admissions- scholarship expectations, which is helping too.

 

Interestingly, he is happy to work for hours on coding for his robotics team without any prompting:). I have had to move that to AFTER his other subjects are done daily.

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I'm beginning to think we need a Fourteen-Year-Old Boys subforum...  :glare:   

 

I think a "14yo boy" thread, maybe on general to get more notice would be a good idea. How could it be worded to get attention, but not confuse people? I don't think the problem is just boys, but I think maybe it is more often boys where it is a worse problem, and maybe boys who are more often fighting for their own autonomy, which may take the form of not doing what parent wants them to do. So at least in part I think the remedy has to do with getting them to realize that their own autonomy lies with doing what will lead them to something that they want for their lives.  But I don't know how to do that.

 

I recently read Boys Adrift by Leonard Sax searching for some answers. It helped some, but only some. For example, getting help from others, especially men, in the boy's life was a help. I am a single mom, but I found, for example, that my son's skating coach who is male also telling him that math is important, and that of course he has to do math before skating was a help. 

 

 

So....I was, at one point, that 14yo boy.  I clearly needed that talk, and my parents attempted to give it to me multiple times.  I recall all sorts of analogies about how I was a leaf in a stream being taken wherever the water wanted, or how nothing can stop smart people who work hard, blah blah blah snore.  

I had a long series of reports home, from 6th grade till the middle of HS that said some variation of 'Andy is a bright boy but needs to apply himself'.

 

The only thing that ever got through to me was when I could see 'why should I want this'.  Not 'how this helps avoid some bad result', but what will/can happen, that I want, that is the result of working harder/applying myself/being more self-directed.

 

In the end, you can't really motivate someone externally - you have to find what they want and clarify that what you're trying to get them to do leads to that.

 

 

I think this is very much what is needed with my ds, for sure. Do you have suggestions for how to achieve this--the bolded particularly?

 

Sigh...I had one with my 3rd grader.

 

I don't think we will (both) make it to his teen years in sound health.

 

 

You were once a 13, 14 yo boy too, right? What did and what didn't work for you? You seem very motivated now, but I guess weren't always so. What makes the difference for a boy (or could be girl, but again, I do think there is a bigger boy problem with this) to be motivated and not to be?

 

 

 

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general question: is this seeming to be a problem with young teens for all activities or only in certain areas? Here it seems to be with regard to math, writing, and chores that there is a struggle. Outside home activities, co-op class, sports, etc., are not a problem, and favorite home school subjects are not a problem.

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I also found it helped to get ds's coach working with me. I had to go in once and tell coach that ds was doing poorly in a class and ask which practices he should cut when I made him drop the number of practices per week.

It helped a lot that the club was very pro school. The coach would be on him to stay caught up too.

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I've had these talks regularly with both dc. Right now my 16 year old is doing reasonably well with his work ethic, although he could do better with his pure homeschool stuff. My 14 year old definitely needs to crack down more. Maybe we need to have another talk...

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Well, knock me over with a feather.  I overheard DS with his online study group, as the "study" part was devolving into banter, say:  "Gotta go, I have work to do."  :D

 

I should have seen this coming.  After one awful week, followed by two up-and-down weeks, we've had several good days in a row.  It seems a common-enough pattern in my house that I should be used to it by now:  (1) DS starts "phoning it in"; (2) I panic and come begging here; (3) I drag my feet with DS because I'm mulling everything over; (4) he improves on his own.  I am hopeful this will stick until our Christmas break begins, and maybe during that time (probably just before we start up again) I'll initiate a chat, touching on some of the things covered here.

 

I do realize it needs to be several small talks over time (largely saying the same things!), and I will do my level best to LISTEN and ask questions, and to be encouraging instead of scolding.

 

 

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I've found that the ages of about 13 to about 16 are the non-motivated-don't-wanna-do-anything-can't-I-just-play-video-games-all-day-why-do-I-have-to-learn-this ages. Miraculously, all my boys have snapped out of it somewhere around the age of 16 or so.

 

I used to say that I was the only obstacle between (bright but unmotivated) ds and a life of leisure.  I had to push, pull, drag him through schoolwork daily.  I had to keep an eye out for cheating.  Outsourcing helped some, but he also learned that some teachers demanded less than mom and he could get a good grade easily.

 

Occasionally, I might tell him, or say to someone else in his presence, that the goal was that he be self-supporting.  Actually, my parenting goal is that he be happy, responsible, and self-supporting.

 

I don't know if the talks do any good, but they certainly indicate that you care about him and his future.  He will know that in the back of his mind.

 

Ds grew out of it.  I would say sometime junior year, choosing CC classes for senior year, when he already had enough credits to graduate, he had more of an idea of what would make him an attractive college student.  When coaches started calling the summer before his senior year, the reality that he was an attractive athlete, helped him WANT to succeed.  First semester freshman year at a challenging STEM school was a wake up call.  He decided on his own that he needed to spend more time studying and less time with video games.  As a college sophomore, he rocks.

 

I have a friend whose dd is brilliant but also challenging.  My friend pulled her hair out for years.  There was no carrot big enough to entice and no stick big enough to prod the dd to do the things she did not want to do.  She would stop going to CC classes.  She had to repeat several.  She eventually graduated with her HS diploma and AA degree.  Then, she took a year off and drifted.  This year, she is a freshman at a small, local, private college and doing absolutely fantastic.

 

Good luck!

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Well, knock me over with a feather.  I overheard DS with his online study group, as the "study" part was devolving into banter, say:  "Gotta go, I have work to do."  :D

 

I should have seen this coming.  After one awful week, followed by two up-and-down weeks, we've had several good days in a row.  It seems a common-enough pattern in my house that I should be used to it by now:  (1) DS starts "phoning it in"; (2) I panic and come begging here; (3) I drag my feet with DS because I'm mulling everything over; (4) he improves on his own.  I am hopeful this will stick until our Christmas break begins, and maybe during that time (probably just before we start up again) I'll initiate a chat, touching on some of the things covered here.

 

I do realize it needs to be several small talks over time (largely saying the same things!), and I will do my level best to LISTEN and ask questions, and to be encouraging instead of scolding.

 

My main parenting mantra:  Progress is not linear.  It seems like I've been chanting that to myself for, what, 13 years now?  You'd think that it would have sunk in by now.  :lol:  :grouphug:

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When I have something important and possibly painful to say to one of the kids, I make an appointment and give them gist of the agenda so they can be at least a little prepared for the conversation.  "On Wednesday at 4pm, we're going to sit down and discuss how to improve your productivity while drinking Christmas lattes at Starbucks."  That way you won't blindside him about his work ethic out of the blue, and he feels a bit empowered going into the discussion.  Make sure no siblings are around to respect his privacy.  

 

Also, you can do some guerilla warfare (another metaphor) by reading aloud to him a book by Cal Newport.  Any of them are good, but you can start with this one.

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Some things that help for my guy....

 

1.  More independence with studying and schoolwork.  He cannot wait to have 100% of his classes through online learning, with tests, exams and benchmarks next year so that he knows where he stands. 

2.  One or two areas of passion that he can show the world/be with people/be proud of/work on....For my son that is swimming and probably his upcoming BotBall team.  Teens NEED that...  I really do not know one teen that turned out to be a healthy adult that didn't have a few things to be proud of and work towards.  

3.  Some clear consequences...

4.  They need to get out of the house, be challenged and really be able to have some places where they can show they are growing to be men.  

 

I don't know if any of that helps.

 

Also, just like anything else with parenting one talk isn't going to fix it...it's just not how parenting works.  You need to make reasonable daily goals, and stick to them with consequences and you also need to make sure he is involved with outside activities and people who will motivate him and spur him on.  And it's a continual process.  I have one very dreamy child who I know is going to be much more of a challenge as far as work ethic, and a slow, late bloomer both in maturity and academics. My oldest will probably go to college full time at 16 with not a single hitch.  My younger will be lucky if she can get there at 19...they are just two very different people. 

 

The question to ask  yourself is how to move him forward in manageable chunks... 

 

 

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I haven't read the other replies- but I've had any number of Come to Jesus talks with my oldest.

I wish I had words of wisdom to share- but in our experience - until SHE is ready to make something a priority.... It's not gonna happen. I can push, pull, plead, and threaten, and it all comes to the same result.

DH says that my nicer Come to Jesus talks cumulatively have had and will continue to have a positive effect on her mindset... The results just may not be as instant as I would like to see. 😄

Edited by hopskipjump
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The last two years with DS have been tough. He is turning 15 this week and I think we are just beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I cannot tell you how much threads like this have helped me from freaking out completely! There is much wisdom in the Hive. Patience and hope have been what I have needed the most. 

 

What has helped:

 

- Having home duties and school stuff written down. We use a student planner and a chore list. DS knows exactly what is expected of him and how far he has to go to finish. 

 

- Keeping school subjects simplified and pared down to the basics, with time for interest-led learning. This was not the time for two math programs and five different Language Arts.

 

- Outsourcing some of his classes. It has been great for him to get accountability from someone other than Mom or Dad. He is the type to flourish under a little pressure and competition.

 

- Bringing Dad in more as the heavyweight.

 

- Joining Civil Air Patrol. Just as others have said, it seems important for him to get out of the house, have something to work toward, and be challenged to become a man.

 

While I think short talks are helpful in a cumulative sense, what has really made the most impact on behavior have been big (to him) consequences for slacking. Such as, you can't go to this event because your work was not finished. On a daily basis though, it can be hard, because so little motivates them at this age. The future seems so far off to them.

 

Justamouse (whatever happened to Justamouse?) posted a link to Auntie Leila's Rules for Mothering 13yo boys which has been so helpful. I have it bookmarked and read it on a regular basis.

 

 

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I'm just entering into this.  I was just bemoaning to some friends on Tuesday that it's hard to teach a kid without any internal motivation.

 

But then I look at my nephew.  He started visiting us on his vacations for a week at a time throughout the school year.  He began visiting with us when he was 13.  And oh boy!  He just wanted to laze around all day and have him buy us stuff.  We were like, "Why is this kid hanging around with us!  He's lazy!"  We'd ask him to take his dish to the sink and you'd think we asked him to get rid of a wasps nest for us.  "What?! Carry my own dish?"

 

But, he's family, so we kept letting him come and kept making him help out with a few things around the house (if you're here for a week, you take your dishes to the sink!.)

 

He'll be 17 next month and the difference in him is light and day.  He's getting himself into duel enrollment classes (he's public schooled), he's making real, solid plans for job opportunities in the future.  His dream is to get work visas in Japan and he's actually getting closer and closer to making that a reality. 

 

It's been great to watch.  I don't see him day-to-day since he lives an hour away.  But each time he visits once every 4 months or so, I see that he's coming into his own.

 

So, I'm hopeful that my son will get some internal motivation somewhere in the next 4 years.  (But it's still hard to watch him waffle and procrastinate...)

My ds is very tall and mature looking for his age. He could easily pass for 16. This summer we were at family camp and one of the dads asked me his age (he was 12 at the time). The dad said, "That's what's wrong with him!" which you can imagine was surprising to me. The dad went on to tell me that he was giving ds a hard time in the canoe because ds wasn't really pulling his weight and kept putting the paddle down. Dad went on to explain that he thought ds was 15 or 16 and couldn't figure out why he was being so lazy. However, upon hearing that he was 12, this dad said it made perfect sense. It was a funny conversation, but also reassuring! Deep down I know ds will end up being a hard worker, so I try not to flip out when he has moments of apathy.

 

ETA- "coming to Jesus talk" is a familiar phrase. I'm Californian, but lived in the south for a decade. I'm not sure if I knew it before living in the south.

Edited by Sassenach
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What has helped:

 

- Having home duties and school stuff written down. We use a student planner and a chore list. DS knows exactly what is expected of him and how far he has to go to finish. 

 

 

I think this is helpful too.  We sort of stopped doing this, but I want to start again.  What do you write in the planner?  Do you write down everything that needs to be done each day and he can check it off?

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I think this is helpful too.  We sort of stopped doing this, but I want to start again.  What do you write in the planner?  Do you write down everything that needs to be done each day and he can check it off?

 

I give him a list of goals and it is his responsibility to break it down and fill out the planner. Throughout middle school we worked on this skill with me making a new list for him every six weeks. Here is an example of the goals from one 6wk block:

 

Math: 

Five lessons a week 

 

Writing: 

Attend class and plan assignments 

 

Copywork: 

One quote or verse a day of your choice, printing or cursive. 

 

Science: 

Finish reading Science Matters with Mom or Dad. Choose an area of interest to study. 

 

Geography: 

Complete the Europe section of 180 DaysWhen you get to a suggestions page, select one activity to do. Also work through the lessons on Europe in Mapping the World with Art. 

 

Spanish: 

One video a week 

 

Reading: 

One chapter of Scripture per day. The books The Omnivore’s Dilemma, Journey to the Center of the Earth. Memorize the last four stanzas of The Skeleton in Armor. 

 

Arts: 

15 min of ukulele a day, including a lesson. Watch the rest of the airplane art video. 

 

Circle Time: 

Attend daily with Mom. Grammar, Vocab, and Reading. 

 

 

*Please keep track of books, videos, and hours in your planner. 

 

 

 

This year in 9th he has only one list of goals for the whole year, and he is doing all the breaking down. DH or I still need to periodically check the planner to make sure he has things covered, so it's not completely hands-off. :)  I have a recent post in my blog about how we use planners, including links to the ones we buy.

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Such great food for thought!  Thank you all. 

 

I am working on defining more specifically what it is I think is lacking.  If I drone on about "work ethic" he will have no clear idea what he's supposed to do.  But if I talk (for the millionth time) about revisiting notes after taking a test to judge how his notetaking habits might need to change, I might actually get somewhere ... maybe not this time, but maybe by the second millionth time....

 

 

Justamouse (whatever happened to Justamouse?) posted a link to Auntie Leila's Rules for Mothering 13yo boys which has been so helpful. I have it bookmarked and read it on a regular basis.

 

Any chance you could share a link?

 

 

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Thank you for sharing that birchbark!  So you guys put that together each six weeks, and then he sits down at the beginning of each week and decides how he is going to get everything done in the week ahead?  Does he write down specifics?  Like in the Monday column, does he write, do math pages 30-34, read chapter 7 of history book, begin first draft of english paper, etc, whatever he needs to do specifically in each class each day?  Do you have set times for each class, or does he just have to work through that list he made for the day until everything is checked off?  I am going to read your blog post now too so please forgive me if that is answered there, I just didn't want to forget my questions.  :)

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So you guys put that together each six weeks, and then he sits down at the beginning of each week and decides how he is going to get everything done in the week ahead?  

 

Yes, that is how we did it in grades 6-8. It did take some hand-holding the first few months.

 

Does he write down specifics?  Like in the Monday column, does he write, do math pages 30-34, read chapter 7 of history book, begin first draft of english paper, etc, whatever he needs to do specifically in each class each day?  

 

Yes, exactly.

 

Do you have set times for each class, or does he just have to work through that list he made for the day until everything is checked off? 

 

No set times. He gets to decide when to do everything, except scheduled online classes. And if he wants to, he can double up on lessons. For instance, if we say he needs to do 5 math lessons, he could do two on Monday, two on Tues, one on Wed, and be done the rest of the week.

 

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Thank you for sharing that birchbark.  So what do you do differently now in 9th?  I think one thing I want to do differently next semester is being more clear about when the work is done for the day.  I think it helps to have a goal and to be able to say, okay, I accomplished what I set out to accomplish today.  I mean, even if some days you do more, that's great, but being able to complete your list can be motivating and satisfying.

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