SKL Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Thanks. Edited December 4, 2015 by SKL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Considering that she chose such a dumb thing to steal. It should have been easy to say "not worth it" to herself. When my brother was a teenager, he stole my mother's car. And he got caught because it stalled on the side of the road and cop pulled over to see if he needed help. It stalled because the dummy didn't know how to drive a stick decently (he didn't get too far from the house). When my husband was young, some people broke into his home and stole some things. One of the things that they stole was some curtains that his father had made and were in a drawer. They got caught because they hung the curtains in their window, just a couple of miles away. I'm not saying that your daughter is destined for a life of crime, but I wouldn't necessarily conflate a bit of stupidity in her "criminal" activities with a deep seated problem. Sometimes kids just do dumb stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink and Green Mom Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I should note that she did return the stolen item. I'm not sure about an apology letter. I'm not sure whether that would improve the relationship with the teacher or not. I think the teacher is "on our side" and I think it would be good if my daughter felt that. My instinct is to not punish in a big way at home. We need to talk (again) and I will probably cut out some fun stuff for a while. These things always seem to happen just before a big day - birthday, holiday, whatever. We have all this Christmas rah-rah going on and this sours it. :/ My boys are adopted and I have been on some large discussion boards with people who have adopted children and I hear this a lot - that just before a big day something happens. I know adoption specialists are $$$ but hopefully they can help you all get to the bottom of some of these issues. Hugs to you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TammyS Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 These things always seem to happen just before a big day - birthday, holiday, whatever. We have all this Christmas rah-rah going on and this sours it. :/ After this happened a couple of times with my oldest, and I got depressed over "ruined" holidays, I finally woke up one day and said to myself, "You know what? He's not a baby or a toddler, he has long-term memory. His consequences can be put on hold." And that's what I've learned to do. So now, if there is a holiday or event, then the punishment just gets deferred. That way, there IS punishment, for the offender, not the family. And I let him know, "There is going to be consequence, I don't know yet what it's going to be, but it will be after the holiday/event." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73349 Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Jen Hatmaker has written the same thing: her adopted kids can't hand the build-up to big days and wind up behaving outrageously and sometimes ruining events. A counselor may help, and also deliberately keeping things consistent and low-key as best you can. Frankly, elementary schools are lousy at that, but you can try at home. ISS with work for the child to do is what I'd expect from the school. Sorry you're having to navigate this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 It took years before my consistent consequences for my (also adopted) daughter sank in, but eventually they did. Just because something didn't solve the problem right away doesn't mean it's not worthwhile to continue doing it. Kids who have post-adoption issues are rarely "better" after one "right" consequence. That's fair. It could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonesinIndiana Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Hugs to you, Mama. Not unusual for our early-trauma kiddos to sabatoge a big,happy event. Holidays, birthdays, family day/gotcha day anniversaries, bring out BIG emotions that our children sometimes can't express except in negative ways. Get her into an adoption therapist and make sure you are sitting right beside her during her sessions. ((Hugs)) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nart Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 When she steals is it that she impulsively sees something interesting when she is walking by a desk and impulsively grabs it to look at it and keeps it (perhaps in her mind she is going to return it) OR is does she plan beforehand and wait until there is an opportunity to steal- for example, she sees a pen she likes on her teacher's desk, waits until recess and then goes back into the classroom knowing the teacher won't be there, then steals the item? What is she stealing besides a number cube? Is that a small like dice that has numbers instead of dots? Is it something all the kids have access to and then return to the teacher, or is it something only the teacher has? There is certainly a difference between swiping something off a teacher's desk and not returning something to the teacher that was passed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Based on the other things you have said about this school, I think that while I agree about many other issues, the school and their extreme discipline measures may very well be contributing to the problem. I know you are committed to the school and it did seem things were better. But I wonder if there aren't any other private-school options. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks. Edited December 4, 2015 by SKL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks. Edited December 4, 2015 by SKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBM Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 The stealing may be caused by impulsivity, which is not unusual at that age, that is driven by feelings of anxiety. If so, learning how to deflate her anxious feelings and also how to stop for a few seconds in order to think about what she's about to do could help her. She would need to work on that consistently until it becomes mostly a habit. A good therapist would be helpful and money well spent especially if she is having suicidal thoughts. You may find she needs someone on and off during her teen years. That's okay. A lot of kids do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Women Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Between the ages of 10 and 12, I stole from my mom a lot. I think it is normal behavior for the age group, but something that obviously should be addressed seriously. It's part of the experimenting about life that a lot of kids do but they need to learn that it's not acceptable before it progresses to bigger things. It seems to me that the best answer would be some sort of restitution, usually a couple of times the worth of the article stolen. Though a lot of kids enjoy helping the teacher, most do not like to be forced to do so, especially for a longer period of time. It seems to me that this would be a logical consequence, of "paying back" what she took. A discussion of trust and broken trust would be complimentary to that, and knowing she will be watched more and not allowed in the room by herself for awhile can also be useful. ("I'm sorry, you can't go back to get your book because nobody is there right now," would reinforce it for many kids.) That does require more teacher attention, perhaps. At home, the ability to earn money towards something she wants might also be helpful, teaching that there are alternative ways to get what she wants. But separately from that, the suicidal issue ought to be addressed with a counselor, as well. It may be that there are emotional issues playing into the stealing (for me, I wanted to be able to "buy" friends by getting them treats I could not afford on my allowance), but the suicide is a much bigger deal, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks. Edited December 4, 2015 by SKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsuga Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I think the teacher and principal are trying to be reasonable about this. I think the ISS was given as the default punishment and they didn't give it a lot of thought before they wrote her up, but when I said it didn't sound age-appropriate, they seemed open. I think they just want to know the parent believes in discipline vs. doing the "my special snowflake" thing. I think when they saw that I was not opposed to some sort of constructive consequence, they were fine. Now it's a little more complicated than they realized, because of this being an "old" incident. My kid is crying "I'm trying to be good and I still get in so much trouble." And a lot of other despairing words. And she's terrified of talking to the principal tomorrow. Now that I've spent the evening with my kid, I am wondering if I did the right thing by committing her to a significant and somewhat public consequence. ... But on the other hand, I feel she is probably at risk of stealing again and does need to know nobody takes it lightly. And she did steal the stupid cube. I do agree that there needs to be a consequence. I just remember that last year one of your kids had a screaming teacher and there were some other issues and I'm wondering just how strong the punishment has to be if it's consistent, relevant, and timely. I'm glad they are being reasonable. I think that until you get a counselor, reminding her that you know she's trying and that many have had to try for a long time and nobody's perfect and you don't expect that could be helpful. My DD1 also talks in extremely drastic terms--she doesn't directly threaten suicide but says things like, "I'll bet you'd be happy if I were dead." I think this is similar behavior so I understand your trepidation in dealing with this. I also remind my daughter, not that this helps in the moment but I hope long-term, that "If you wouldn't talk to someone else that way, don't talk to yourself that way" and "please do not talk to my beloved daughter that way." I read that on some message board somewhere and honestly, it really does sink in and it's the most loving, understanding way I can think of to stop the negative self-talk. Edit: Re: Your recent post, that is the kind of extreme thing that I think is really not helpful. I mean what is she going to steal in the bathroom? That creates such a lack of trust. There must be a better way! Edited December 4, 2015 by Tsuga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks. Edited December 4, 2015 by SKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) The teacher did say she isn't going to be allowed to go anywhere without an adult supervising - to her locker, the bathroom, etc. That's gonna get old quick.... I think that is humiliating rather than helpful or constructive. I would strongly object to that. ETA: I just read your last post and saw that she has gone into other kids' lockers. This makes it seem like a much bigger problem than taking a little thing from the teacher. I wish I knew what to suggest to you. Edited December 4, 2015 by Catwoman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunshineMom Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 This behavior (stealing) appears passive/aggressive, the child is resentful/hurt/angry with the teacher, stealing might be a way to gain some control in the relationship/situation. She is unable to express her true feelings regarding the teacher. Additionally, she is not expressing her emotions in general causing depression and suicidal thoughts. She needs some counseling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks. Edited December 4, 2015 by SKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Well, right now it's all small stuff, so try not to worry in advance about things that will hopefully never happen. You're aware of what's going on and you are going to get her the help she needs. Another positive thing is that she is still young, so it may be easier to get her to change her ways than it would have been if you didn't learn about this until she was a teenager. I would be worried sick, too, but I think this is something you can work through with her. Everything you have ever posted about her leads me to believe she is a kindhearted kid, and that means a lot. If a therapist can help her figure out what makes her steal things, I'm sure she will be able to overcome this problem. :grouphug: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Jen Hatmaker has written the same thing: her adopted kids can't hand the build-up to big days and wind up behaving outrageously and sometimes ruining events. A counselor may help, and also deliberately keeping things consistent and low-key as best you can. Frankly, elementary schools are lousy at that, but you can try at home. ISS with work for the child to do is what I'd expect from the school. Sorry you're having to navigate this. YAY! That is who I was thinking about. Was trying to find the blog post I remembered reading. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathnerd Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) removed because of too many references to the original content. Edited December 4, 2015 by mathnerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 4, 2015 Author Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Thanks. Edited December 4, 2015 by SKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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