CPS just showed up...

[abba12]

The thing that makes me angriest in this is that they put words into your child's mouth.

 

When talking to a child to find out what happened you never ever suggest an event. Children will sometimes just say yes for a number of reasons, or latch onto a word! The word spanking should have never entered the conversation unless the child spoke it first. Interviews like that need to be open ended questions, never yes-or-no questions. People who don't understand the basics of questioning a child without planting ideas shouldn't be allowed to speak to them about serious things!

 

It's possible your child didn't even say spanking, and that the person who reported it decided that was the cause without any reason from the child. That, coupled with the rumours that are suddenly spreading, tells me there's more to this than a just-in-case report. 

[idnib]

I'd come out swingin' against everyone and anyone at that daycare. Cripes! You need to be madder than heck right now, not embarrassed!

 

I'd pull dd out of the preschool NOW, lodge a complaint with the superintendent or whoever is in charge there, get my doctor and law authorities on my side (which it sounds like you already did), and blast all over Facebook about how you are the victim of vicious defamation.

 

Heck, I'd even be publicly warning people NOT to put their children in that daycare, because it could happen to THEM, kwim?

 

Take no prisoners.

 

I completely agree. I would never send my child back to these people. How could I if i didn't trust them anymore?

 

I would be raising hell because not every parent has the resources to have a good pediatrician who knows and backs them, sheriffs and police officers for references, etc.

 

Do it not just for yourself, but for others who may be victimized by these people.

[Rosie_0801]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

It's terrifying, isn't it?

[ThisIsTheDay]

I am so, so sorry.  I remember you in greater detail than many other boardies because of the year you've had.  I'm in shock for you. Thank God you have what sounds like a great relationship with your pediatrician, and that you have other good references.

 

If this were me, I might be discussing with dh a way to approach on social media, at least sharing with some people whom you KNOW will stand up for you, and loudly.

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

[kiana]

Looking at your second update, I'd get her the hell out of that preschool no matter how much she loves it. It's clear that they have absolutely no idea of the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" or privacy.

[Seasider]

I am so glad you are being helped. I'd definitely go to the school's principal, that's messed up!

ETA: we had CPS involved years ago when our son broke his leg and we were blamed. It's very stressful. I hope it's over with sooner than 60 days :(

You can bet I'd be in to see the daycare administrator. At the very least, somebody needs to be better trained on reporting and not suggesting answers when questioning a child.

[MedicMom]

I don't know anyone at the day care aside from two or three people I was acquaintances with before DD started there, so I have no idea what any personal issues would be.

 

I am not really worried, because I'm sure it will be unfounded. I'm mostly upset that they clearly questioned her without me present.

 

On top of all that the insurance company denied our appeal for part of the baby's NICU stay. And my husband wants to contact an attorney over this, so I am going over finances tonight to see what we can do.

My best friend is coming over with wine and a babysitter.

Edited December 3, 2015 by MedicMom

[Mommy22alyns]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 14, 2015 by ^ 022

[Saddlemomma]

I don't know anyone at the day care aside from two or three people I was acquaintances with before DD started there, so I have no idea what any personal issues would be.

 

I am not really worried, because I'm sure it will be unfounded. I'm mostly upset that they clearly questioned her without me present.

 

On top of all that the insurance company denied our appeal for part of the baby's NICU stay. And my husband wants to contact an attorney over this, so I am going over finances tonight to see what we can do.

My best friend is coming over with wine and a babysitter.

 

 

Sounds like the whole DC crew is participating in slander as well. I would pull my kid and get that attorney. 

[Guest]

Ugh.  
I am so sorry.  This stinks.  

 

And it is so counterproductive.  

[trulycrabby]

I am so sorry. :grouphug:

[Ali in OR]

I'm so sorry you have to go through this--you don't need this stress. The most charitable view I can muster is that a young teacher with no children and little life experience did what she thought was the right thing to do--perhaps never imagining the far-reaching consequences it would have. But even giving her any benefit of the doubt, leaving a child in their care puts your whole family at risk. I would withdraw her immediately.

 

My disabled kiddo bruises easily; it's a side-effect of one of her meds. She often has bruises around her knees (wheelchair kid--I think they're just easy targets). Her teachers and aides have always been great, but when one aide started making notes about bruises in dd's home communication notebook, I started to do the same. I'm proactive in letting them know about bruises I see first (they're as likely to be caused at school as at home). Sometimes I know what causes them (like a strap on her wheelchair), most of the time I never know. The idea of CPS visiting is a nightmare to me.

[flyingaway]

Please don't feel humiliated. What you should feel is infuriated. I feel it for you. That preschool would be sorry they had ever crossed paths with me.

 

Sorry. I know I can't tell people how they should feel. Just really hate stuff like this.

Edited December 3, 2015 by flyingaway

[momto10blessings]

Please don't feel humiliated. What you should feel is infuriated. I feel it for you. That preschool would be sorry they had ever crossed paths with me.

 

Sorry. I know I can't tell people how they should feel. Just really hate stuff like this.

I agree with this 100x. That's completely ridiculous. Never go back there again.

[MedicMom]

So I went to take a picture to document and I can find one small scratch mark, but no bruise. There was a small one earlier but it's gone now.

She does that though. Bruises easily and hours later they are gone.

 

So I don't even know what to document now. I documented that there was nothing, I guess.

 

I asked her if she knew what a spanking was. She said it's something the cat does. So I am now even more convinced that whoever filed that report either lied or fed her words. She has never been spanked and clearly has no idea what it even is.

Edited December 3, 2015 by MedicMom

[Peach]

IN addition to a complaint to the administrator/owner, I'd file a complaint with whoever licenses that daycare and make sure the daycare knows it. That might motivate them to get busy and deal with this situation.

[Pen]

I also think you need to talk with an attorney now.

 

You have been defamed, and since it seems to be spreading to others, it seems like you need to do something about that, but also need to be sure that nothing you do will jeopardize your situation with regard to the CPS investigation or leave you open to a lawsuit from the DC if you tell people what happened since they could then claim that you are defaming them.  Having it be dropped by CPS after the 60 days may not solve your problem in the community eyes.  And as other point out, some other person in this same situation may not have the resources you do to fight it, get good references and so on.

[Tsuga]

The thing that makes me angriest in this is that they put words into your child's mouth.

 

When talking to a child to find out what happened you never ever suggest an event. Children will sometimes just say yes for a number of reasons, or latch onto a word! The word spanking should have never entered the conversation unless the child spoke it first. Interviews like that need to be open ended questions, never yes-or-no questions. People who don't understand the basics of questioning a child without planting ideas shouldn't be allowed to speak to them about serious things!

 

It's possible your child didn't even say spanking, and that the person who reported it decided that was the cause without any reason from the child. That, coupled with the rumours that are suddenly spreading, tells me there's more to this than a just-in-case report. 

 

It is possible that a child talked about spanking if they asked if the mom ever did anything wrong, simply because kids talk and they say totally random stuff. You know? I know my kids do and did a lot at that age. "What did you do at school today?" "Oh, we just went to the park and the teacher got lost but we took the bus home." "I see... would you say that is the truth?" "Yes." "You're not making it up?" "Well... I do like to go to the park."

 

Not to say children should never be believed but you can't just open up an interview like that on the spot and use it as evidence against someone. There has to be a pattern of behavior, skilled interviewers, and a controlled interview situation.

[Tsuga]

That is horrible and terrifying. I'm so sorry.

 

Also... a bruise?!? Uh, nobody else's kids get bruises? I get it, inner thigh, unusual, but uh, I watched my neighbor's daughter break her hymen (there was blood, poor little mite) on the bars at the age of four. My daughter had a huge cut on her lip at 2.5 from falling down stairs. Nobody called CPS.

 

And the fact that people are unfriending you? How utterly bizarre. I'm so sorry... I agree that legal action might be necessary if they are defaming you.

[Liz CA]

Wait. She had a BRUISE on her arm, and the preschool teachers called CPS???

 

What the hell?

 

Yes, really wondering what kind of people they are employing. My ds had bruises from falling off bikes / trikes, falling on the stairs, bumping into table corners...good grief.

 

[Pen]

So I went to take a picture to document and I can find one small scratch mark, but no bruise. There was a small one earlier but it's gone now.

She does that though. Bruises easily and hours later they are gone.

 

So I don't even know what to document now. I documented that there was nothing, I guess.

 

I asked her if she knew what a spanking was. She said it's something the cat does. So I am now even more convinced that whoever filed that report either lied or fed her words. She has never been spanked and clearly has no idea what it even is.

 

 

Can you have her tell you the story of what happened, how she got the bruise if she knows, and then what happened with teacher at school, what the teacher asked her, and what she told the teacher in her own words and audio record it either on digital or cassette?  And also her telling you that a spanking is what the cat does or whatever she understands about that?  And keep it along with the pictures of her as she is now. Everything dated.  

[Arcadia]

:grouphug:

[applethyme]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Pen]

That is horrible and terrifying. I'm so sorry.

 

Also... a bruise?!? Uh, nobody else's kids get bruises? I get it, inner thigh, unusual, but uh, I watched my neighbor's daughter break her hymen (there was blood, poor little mite) on the bars at the age of four. My daughter had a huge cut on her lip at 2.5 from falling down stairs. Nobody called CPS.

 

And the fact that people are unfriending you? How utterly bizarre. I'm so sorry... I agree that legal action might be necessary if they are defaming you.

 

 

Inner thigh?  I missed that.  Why was the teacher involved with examining the child's inner thigh? The buttocks would show if help was needed to wipe bottom... but inner thigh? I just totally don't get scrutiny of the inner thigh by a teacher.  Maybe a  CPS call should be made about the teacher being over-involved with the child's genital area.

[StephanieZ]

This is so terrible. I am so very sorry. I would be shattered and furious and distraught. I'm glad you have good friends and good family. Those who unfriended you are NO LOSS. I learned in recent years that there are silver linings to terrible things happening . . . you sometimes get to find out who are real friends and who are not. Separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Good riddance. 

 

I would absolutely pull her out of the preschool yesterday. Never again would I let my child cross their threshold! If you can manage it financially, I'd absolutely contact a good attorney. If I were in your shoes, I would for sure. Just to be certain you have all your ducks in a row just in case another shoe drops. 

 

And, yes, I'd do a "full body" (undies on but bare otherwise) slow-moving video covering every inch of that child, today, with something in the background to "date stamp" it (maybe a computer screen with a news site or similar -- who has newspapers anymore?) . . . And, I'd redo the video every couple days for a while until this is all settled and/or your attorney advises otherwise. I'd do super clear close ups of any bruises that might show the bite mark or scratch inside the bruise.

[unsinkable]

Inner thigh? I missed that. Why was the teacher involved with examining the child's inner thigh? The buttocks would show if help was needed to wipe bottom... but inner thigh? I just totally don't get scrutiny of the inner thigh by a teacher. Maybe a CPS call should be made about the teacher being over-involved with the child's genital area.

Upper thigh

 

post 12

[Laurie4b]

It's on her upper thigh. It's clearly got a small insect bite mark and the bruising is around it.

 

I am a mandated reporter and make a hotline call once a week. I would never hotline this.

 

Plus I am really pissed because the reporter stated I spanked her. They had to put that into her mind while questioning her because she has never been spanked and wouldn't know to say that.

 

 

Get her to a doctor asap so that you can have medical documentation of what it actually is. I am so sorry that this happened to you. 

[AimeeM]

I'm so sorry :(

I'm sure it's been mentioned before, but do you happen to have an MD's documentation that your daughter bruises from bug bites? It isn't terribly uncommon, so I would hope it could be easily cleared up. 

*hugs*

[SereneHome]

I am so so very sorry. 

 

This is why I never allowed anyone to watch my kids bc this would be my worst nightmare and I wouldn't have handled it well.  :sad:   

 

And I agree with others - don't be humiliated - you didn't do anything wrong.  I don't know anything about you, but if you say it's a small town, I would think people know you there, so shame on them for thinking this of you.  Again, I am so so so sorry

[Alessandra]

Oh, [insert curse words not allowed on WTM]. I cannot imagine anything more horrible. It is so out of your control.

(((Hugs)))

[momofkhm]

My kids are older, but I remember one time a student was in at the doctors office.  The actual doc said to the student "see all those bruises on the legs."  I immediately started to panic.  Once student acknowledged them, doc followed up with "we worry when we don't see any."  Where is the common sense on the part of the preschool teachers?

[momacacia]

I'm so sorry. :(

You could try Arnica cream next time (but not on an open wound area--maybe safely around the bug bite) and vitamin C is supposed to help reduce bruising.

[Twigs]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[IfIOnly]

Get her to a doctor asap so that you can have medical documentation of what it actually is. I am so sorry that this happened to you.

Yes, take her in tomorrow.

[Mimm]

Jeez. I'm so sorry. My daughter has a black eye right now and I don't want to take her anywhere. She fell down a few steps at my brother's house on Thanksgiving. Maybe it comes from having a clumsy kid, but when I see kids with the odd bruise or scratch or whatever, I don't even think about abuse. My middle child had to have stitches on her face three times! I was glad each incident happened in different places with different people involved so no one care taker could be blamed. Horrible that when your kid gets hurt, you aren't just thinking of them getting better, you have to wonder if you'll get in trouble for it. :(

 

[SKL]

I'm sorry.  My kid gets big swellings from spider bites.  When she was 3 or 4, this happened during nap time at preschool.  Good thing it happened there, because it looked like she had been punched in the eye.  When the swelling didn't go down by the next day, I took her to the doctor to document that it was a spider bite and not a whack.

 

I hope things get cleared up for you soon.

[Murphy101]

I would not question her very much. She is 3 years old. Repeated questioning will just stress her out and make everything more confusing for her. I would immediately take her to the doctor for a full exam. And while there I'd insist on a full exam of all the kids. I would call a lawyer. And I'd pull her from the daycare. I would not say one word spoken or in writing ever to anyone associated with that daycare ever again. Cross the road when you see them. Do not respond to anything from them. If they say or write or do anything - make sure you document it and let your lawyer know. But don't respond. It might not keep them from being butt nuggets but it greatly reduced their ability to smear you with their crap.

 

I'm glad you have a good friend who is sticking close to help. It makes all the difference.

[shawthorne44]

My kids are older, but I remember one time a student was in at the doctors office.  The actual doc said to the student "see all those bruises on the legs."  I immediately started to panic.  Once student acknowledged them, doc followed up with "we worry when we don't see any."  Where is the common sense on the part of the preschool teachers?

 

That is what I was thinking as I read the posts, that lack of bruises would be weird. 

[Murphy101]

My third child used to get just awful horrible reactions to bug bites and I'd be so worried about taking him anywhere for weeks at a time. And that child is so sweet I swear every bug this corner of the state would go for him the second he stepped out the door. Even if none of the other kids got a single bite, he would. Some summers he would refuse to play outside bc he was scared of being miserable with bites afterward. :(

Yes I sprayed the yard and the house and his ankle to wrist clothing. No matter how hot it was, I always made him wear long pants and sleeves to reduce bite options. And each bite would swell so bad and the center would look like someone took a cigarette to his skin. God forbid he get a bite within an a couple inches of his eyes bc it would swell the eye completely shut for days. Yes we used Benadryl. And he ate garlic cloves by the hand full and we used that Avon lotion. It didn't matter. :(

 

I took him to the doctor many many times to try to get remedies, but also just bc I was terrified someone would call CPS.

[Harriet Vane]

:grouphug:

[mamakelly]

I am so sorry! What a mess. I think you may want to have an attorney draft a letter to the daycare. If they suspected abuse, fine call CPS, but gossiping amongst people, staff and otherwise is very wrong.

[Reflections]

Since someone was bold enough to make a hotline call about a bruise, and since CPS is known for not discussing their investigation, I would wonder if this daycare would be on the lookout for more things to be suspicious about and might even make more reports to CPS about your daughter.

 

I'm not trying to increase your panic, I'm just thinking out loud about what I might be thinking about if this happened to me.  

 

As far as the couch:  imo, her abrupt refusal probably didn't happen in a vacuum, nor was it coincidental.  But it may be that she's just trying to disengage herself from this situation.

 

Either way, I'd be so upset, so anxious, I wouldn't be able to work up to mad.  Mad wouldn't come until later.  If I was really worried, I would get an attorney just so that I'd have their unbiased unemotional opinion.

 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Reflections

[happi duck]

(Hugs)

[AimeeM]

That is what I was thinking as I read the posts, that lack of bruises would be weird. 

Yeah. A bit. Even my medically fragile (but nothing that causes bruising) kiddo, who isn't very active at all, has bruises on his legs fairly regularly.

 

I have a kid (DS3 - otherwise known as The Marvelous Flying Marco) who is pretty consistently bruised. Not always in "normal, good-to-see" places either (like right now - he has a bruise on his forehead; a straight line down the center of his forehead, actually). Thank GOD he has an in-home therapist (used to have two, but we lost one when we moved) who works in early intervention, is a foster parent and mandatory reporter, who has seen HOW Marco incurs those injuries. In fact, today at the end of her session with Marc she was smack-dab in the middle of a foam sword fight between Marc, DS6, and DD14, which quickly escalated into a wrestling match. While I yelled at the kids to break it up before someone got killed, and manhandled Marco away from the thick of it (because, let there be no doubt - he was, as he always is, right in the middle of the action), she (his therapist) just looked around, smiled, and went about finishing her visit report.

She sometimes asks Marc how he got a bruise or boo-boo, but one of his therapy needs is speech, so if he doesn't answer, she asks me. 

Edited December 3, 2015 by AimeeM

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

[38carrots]

First off, don't be ashamed.  That's how this whole system works to abuse people with nutty investigations.  The shame people into silence and so they keep getting away with it.  You want to know something?  This has happened to about 80% of the people I know, myself included.  I bet it's happened to a lot of people you know, too.  We just don't talk about it, because we're all shamed into silence.  And so they get away with it.

 

The teacher messaging you and the two friends unfriending you that quickly suggests to me that there is more to this than overzealous reporting.  If they reported "just in case", they wouldn't tell people, because they would be hoping they were wrong.  Instead, someone is spreading rumors about you.  The question is...why?  Answer..don't care, but now you know it's not a safe place for your family.  You should just not take the kids back there, at all, and lodge a complaint with the owner of the place and let them know that you will be telling everyone what has happened and that this place is not safe. 

 

Do not be ashamed.  Be pissed.  Time for offense.

 

This.

 

You haven't done anything wrong, don't let those "friends" bully you into thinking otherwise.

 

HUGS. Hang in there. I'm so very sorry this is happening to you.

[38carrots]

I wouldn't trust those people with my child for even another hour! Call me paranoid, but it does seem that it is more than just overzealous reporting--they seem to be those people who need drama in their lives (hence the gossip). They are not hoping that everything is okay (they would've talked to you, instead of reporting if they were). They are actually hoping for "entertainment" for their feeble brains. I wouldn't trust what they might tell my 3 year old. I wouldn't trust what they might suggest to my 3 year old. I wouldn't trust what they might do to my 3 year old.

 

I'd remove my child immediately and get a lawyer.

[Aiden]

How awful!

 

I also would remove my child from the daycare, despite how much she loves it. You can't trust that teacher not to inflate other situations, not to suggest things to your child that could get you in trouble if your child parrots those words back, not to gossip in ways that will ruin your reputation.

 

I would consult a lawyer first and foremost. Be certain that your removing your daughter from the daycare won't look like you're trying to hide something--if the lawyer recommends against it, I'd either leave her there (hating every moment of it!) or I'd remove her but put her into some other group care situation so the argument couldn't be made that you're trying to shield her from public eyes. I'd ask the lawyer whether you have any kind of case for defamation because of the gossip. I would assume that your job requires a fair amount of public trust, and certainly if the gossip reached coworkers or your employer and caused any kind of trouble there, I'd look into a lawsuit. Even if the lawyer just sent a letter to the daycare notifying them that the gossip is defamation and that they'll be held liable for damage to your reputation, that could scare them straight, even if you don't file a lawsuit.

 

I'm not sure what the law is about questioning a young child without parental notification, consent, or presence, but I'd ask a lawyer about that too.

 

Also ensure that you document anything and everything that happens physically with any of your kids over the next 60 days ... bruises get pictures, written descriptions of how they happened, doctor visits depending on severity and lawyer recommendations.

 

Don't question your daughter. As tempting as it is, because you know her "real" answers and you know you could ask the questions in such a way as to elicit the truth, don't do it. It's very difficult to question young children without leading them to the answers you expect or want. If you mess up even once and ask a leading question, it could contaminate any official questioning that may occur later. And you can't prove that you didn't coach an answer--even if you get a recording of your daughter saying that spanking is what the cats do, how would you respond to accusations that just prior to making the recording, you'd probably told her that that's what spanking means? She's so suggestible at her age that you could never prove that you hadn't coached her. Better to leave it so that if someone asks your child, "Did your parents ever talk to you about this investigation/spanking/what to say to us?" the only answer she'd give is "No" (best answer) or "They told me to tell the truth" (good answer but could become problematic if they were determined to find problems--after all, did you tell her to tell the truth after telling her what the truth is?).

[ashfern]

:grouphug:  :grouphug: My youngest has bruises all the time. Yesterday I noticed one on his forehead. I have no clue when he got it. He climbs on everything and jumps off so I can guess how.  :grouphug:  :grouphug: