What's the very latest you can do first year of serious, textbook Science?

[...................]

So, my dd is in 6th grade and she is just not ready for serious textbook Science.  She just doesn't have the concentration and organizational skills to take notes, study, let alone perform and document coherent experiments.  And, being a creative, artistic soul textbooks are her nemesis anyway.

 

I don't think next year will be all that different for her. ...I could start her on Apologia General, but I am wondering..... if General Science is just general scientific knowledge, couldn't that be skipped?

 

So, by that logic, could she wait till 8th grade and let Apologia Physical be her first serious science course?  

 

 

[kiwi mum]

Even before I had read the second half of your post I was going to suggest starting in 8th grade with Physical Science. Yes you can skip general science - we did. I wouldn't recommend waiting any later than 8th grade though as there is quite a learning curve to textbook style science and having that experience before high school (and before biology) is very helpful.

[mom31257]

I think you could wait until 8th grade. 

 

Ds is in 7th grade and doing Apologia Physical this year because I am doing the labs in a co-op class. I figured why not have him do the class I was having to do some prep for anyway. He really wasn't ready for the step up, even though he did BJU 6th last year. The testing has been an issue because it is such a different style than he had ever had before. He's also not interested in the topics, which doesn't help. He's more a fan of life science. Two years of physical sciences in high school are looming, so I'm wondering if we should do those early and save the life sciences for later. Not sure on that yet, and co-op may affect the decision.

 

Honestly, I've not done enough with him to prep. This is a hard year for me in several ways. Somehow I guess I just thought he'd magically get it and do well like his sister; however, that isn't the case. He's just not motivated enough to pay attention and get things the first go around like she did. 

 

I have been having him do Quizlet practice flashcards that I've found. I've also altered the last couple of tests, but he's still just making a low B. 

 

I hope to spend next semester helping him acquire better study skills. I just have to make myself do it! 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Totally.  8th grade will be fine.  The skills and readiness will soar in two years.

[EmilyGF]

My junior high only did half a year of science in 7th and a whole year in 8th grade. My 8th grade science teacher was a joke, BTW. But I got into high school biology as a freshman based on my math level. It was really really really hard since it was essentially my first serious year of science. I survived, barely, and went on to be a physics major. 

 

Success in textbook science depends more on math, IMO, though previous science exposure will make it easier!

 

Emily

[SilverMoon]

9th. :p

 

Neither Apologia General or Physical are prerequisites for high school science. Solid math skills and a broad exposure to science topics helped my teens the most.

 

Fwiw, my oldest is my most textbook adverse child. The most effective have been the textbooks that have gobs of real life application. He crashed and burned with Apologia, but the highly conceptual books are do-able. He's doing forensics this year and doing loads better. If I could go back I wouldn't have hoisted textbooks on him in jr high at all.

[happypamama]

9th. :p

 

Neither Apologia General or Physical are prerequisites for high school science. Solid math skills and a broad exposure to science topics helped my teens the most.

 

Fwiw, my oldest is my most textbook adverse child. The most effective have been the textbooks that have gobs of real life application. He crashed and burned with Apologia, but the highly conceptual books are do-able. He's doing forensics this year and doing loads better. If I could go back I wouldn't have hoisted textbooks on him in jr high at all.

Thank you for saying this. Textbook science really just hasn't worked around here much yet, but they've got very solid math skills and plenty of scientific exposure and curiosity, plus some basics of how the scientific method works. I'm planning to do biology with my oldest next year for ninth, and this thread had me a little worried. I expect some growing pains, but I think it'll be okay.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Could you transition slowly? As in, could you just read the text and do some of the math problems for 7th grade (even buddy reading and discussion). Then the next year do a bit more note taking and experiments while tapering off the buddy reading. Or vis versa if she would be more into experiments than the math. That way, by the time 9th rolled around it wouldn't be a total shocker.

 

We started buddy reading and math with science in fifth grade, but never even dreamed of getting much through the text book. It was more general exposure and Ds was geeked out about chemistry. This year we will do the same with physics. Just allowing him to dip his toes into denser reading, complex math, and stacking the concepts. It also became a giant confidence booster as he began to pick up skills which he did not see himself as naturally predisposed for (like patiently reading, then rereading, then looking up terms, and finally understanding).

[Tsuga]

I would avoid textbook science until necessary, i.e. high school. I'd go through experiments, for sure, and maybe keep a nature notebook, but textbooks? Blech. I can assure you that our kids have never, ever come home from public school telling us what they read about. Instead, they remember experiments, nature walks, demonstrations, lab notes, and drawings. If you can keep a nature journal one year, with drawings (nature drawing journals with labels are awesome!), and maybe an astronomy journal the next if you can watch the moon and stars and look through a telescope, and keep solid on math, you'll probably be way ahead of many others who've been stuck in books.

 

Celebrate the time you have for hands-on in middle school.

[EmilyGF]

I do want to point out that kids often develop skills as they rise to the challenge along with adult scaffolding, so teaching study skills in the context of a science textbook is a reasonable approach, IMO (though it doesn't necessarily need to be in 6th grade).

At the beginning of this school year, DS was such a slow reader that I actually looked into courses that would help him improve his speed. He cried when I asked him to do a written narration. But I kept making him do a daily read-a-hard-assigned-book-then-write-narration and he now reads for retention at a reasonable speed and writes 3 page narrations easily. We also tackled The Tempest and the kids got really into it by the end. Were they "ready" for The Tempest (age 8 and 10 when we started)? No, but I scaffolded and did it slowly and they got waaaaay more out of it than I got out of Shakespeare as a high school freshman.

Emily

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, I agree that reading to learn from textbooks is a skill that can and should be taught (by the end of 8th grade, not necessarily in 6th), it's not like they will just suddenly wake up able to do it once they turn 14 or hit 9th grade.  For us, 7th and 8th grade have been an ideal time to focus on learning how to learn - the basics are in place, and she has the analytical ability now, which she didn't have in 6th, to think about the process of her own cognition.  Some really great resources that can help a middle grader transform into an autodidact are the Great Course How to Be a Superstar Student, the books The 5 elements of Effective Thinking and A Mind for Numbers.  And then the book that really got into the nitty-gritty of reading and taking notes from texts and lectures was What Smart Students Know.

 

Linkies:

 

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/how-to-become-a-superstar-student-2nd-edition.html

 

http://www.amazon.com/5-Elements-Effective-Thinking/dp/0691156662/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449068731&sr=1-1&keywords=the+5+elements+of+effective+thinking

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mind-For-Numbers-Science-Flunked-ebook/dp/B00G3L19ZU

 

http://www.amazon.com/What-Smart-Students-Know-Learning/dp/0517880857/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8

 

[Momling]

We used various Ellen McHenry's science in 6th and 7th grade and are now using SYRWL Science book 2 as a general science. Both are accessible and ideal for middle school. We supplement with crash course science videos, some galore park test prep, documentaries and labs or activities. I think 8th is a good year to use a textbook if you haven't done some of that already.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Momling

[HomeAgain]

We never did general science in our house, instead concentrating on one branch each year.  We didn't use textbooks, either, until 8th grade.  My 16yo just thanked me for making sure he got a good background in each.  There is a good portion of his physics class this year who are drowning, but since this is his 4th year of physics and he isn't having to learn ALL the material from scratch (just bits to apply to what he knows), he's making As.

 

In your shoes I would spend 6th & 7th doing organized studies, and 8th or 9th introduce a textbook.  I do think it is invaluable to have that rotation now, even though I was wavering before and thinking of doing something different with the youngest.  It's like the history rotation, you don't realize the result of going through the same material until the end of the game.  Watching my kid breeze through a class that should be challenging, and *is* to the students who have had general studies until now, it is worth it to see him succeed and get more out of the material.

[Bocky]

I am finding So You Really Want to Learn Science Book 1 from Galore Park to be a very accessible entry-level textbook for my 6th grader.  The pages are simply laid out without lots of annoying sidebars, and the exercises provide an easy comprehension check. We use it alongside our main science which is tied in with history and language arts. We've just finished a three month unit on Botany, and are studying medieval technology.

[Sherry in OH]

I am finding So You Really Want to Learn Science Book 1 from Galore Park to be a very accessible entry-level textbook for my 6th grader.  The pages are simply laid out without lots of annoying sidebars, and the exercises provide an easy comprehension check. We use it alongside our main science which is tied in with history and language arts. We've just finished a three month unit on Botany, and are studying medieval technology.

 

Is the medieval technology in So You Really Want to Learn Science?  If not, what are you using for this study?

[MerryAtHope]

So, my dd is in 6th grade and she is just not ready for serious textbook Science.  She just doesn't have the concentration and organizational skills to take notes, study, let alone perform and document coherent experiments.  And, being a creative, artistic soul textbooks are her nemesis anyway.

 

I don't think next year will be all that different for her. ...I could start her on Apologia General, but I am wondering..... if General Science is just general scientific knowledge, couldn't that be skipped?

 

So, by that logic, could she wait till 8th grade and let Apologia Physical be her first serious science course?  

 

My very STEM-oriented but free-spirited daughter didn't do Apologia (upper levels) until Biology in 9th. We did a lot of eclectic things before then--some years I let her choose books from Sonlight (she did a lot of Science F), or Apologia (I did Astronomy with both kids when she was in 4th, just 2 days a week--and in 6th she did Botany and part of Anatomy). I told her to work for 30 minutes in elem, 45 minutes in junior high, and she had a choice of reading, nature journaling, drawing illustrations from her book in her journal, writing some notes, or doing experiments (no last minute requests allowed--we keep a running shopping list on the fridge & any needed items, she added there, or she came up with substitutions or asked for help.) She also did the science fair every year, and for 7th grade used Supercharged Science (she won a subscription from the science fair the previous year) and watched the videos, read, and did experiments. For 8th grade, she used several of the Tiner books, which is mainly reading with short quizzes for each chapter. She really liked those. 

 

She was not ready for the big textbooks in 7th and 8th. My son, on the other hand, even though he doesn't really care for science, wanted that big textbook in 7th! He took it as a sign that he was capable and growing up and able to do hard things. He actually really liked General (but he's more of a history/philosophy buff and also enjoyed the whole creation/evolution discussion). He didn't care as much for Physical. My dd never did either one. 

 

Different kids, different needs. I'm glad I gave my daughter time to just enjoy and explore science before moving her to a textbook. With Apologia, there's always going to be a learning curve whenever they start, as far as learning how to study and take the tests, so be ready to work with her if needed. 

[AEC]

we're a pretty science-oriented family just by nature...but DD13 did no 'formal' or 'serious' science till this year (8th) when he picked up M&L Bio at a HighSchool level.

 

He's killing it, honestly.  He's on pace to cover every chapter in the book (which I believe is usually considered honors Bio).  No issues.

He has a good math background and reads a lot, but we've done nothing as far as an actual science curiculum prior to this year.

 

IMO, beyond a general appreciation for the fact that the world is explainable, a basic understanding of how stuff works and the notion of scientific process...early 'science' education is overblown.  Find things that are fun that she's interested in, go see the occasional science musem, watch some videos of read some books on bio, chem, astronomy so she knows they exist.  How about Nova or RadioLab?  Otherwise, don't stress.  They haven't the math for 'real' science anyway.

Edited December 9, 2015 by AEC

[Bocky]

Is the medieval technology in So You Really Want to Learn Science?  If not, what are you using for this study?

 

No, medieval technology is not included in SYRWTL Science. I created a study using mostly materials available from my local library.

 

I read Lynn White, Medieval Technology and Social Change and Jeffrey Wigelsworth, Science and Technology in Medieval European Life. I read aloud some passages from these books, paraphrasing to avoid the academic argumentation.

 

My dd liked Joanne Findon, Science and Technology in the Middle Ages (short at 32 pages, but not military focused, which is hard to find.) She read lots of kids’ non-fiction on castles, knights and medieval weaponary. Stand-outs were David Macaulay’s books Castle, Cathedral and Mosque, and William Gurstelle, The Art of the Catapult. We did a lot of projects –like designing a castle and building a model, building the Viking catapult from Gurstelle. We built some of the Pathfinders models too—I thought the trebuchet had the most bang for buck.

 

Apologies for the tangent, OP. Back on topic, I do think it is useful to learn to read textbooks in middle school because it helps with reading comprehension of nonfiction passages in standardized testing. In my state, we have to test in language arts and math at 5th and 8th grade. But in terms of mastering content, I do agree with many other posters who have said high school is a good time to start textbooks.

[Penguin]

We dabbled in a Physical Science textbook during 8th grade, and DS had zero problem with the Miller Levine text in 9th. He is ready now to move up to a harder book.

 

He also did very well on the science portion of the ACT in 8th.

[Bluegoat]

I would say high school, which here is 10th grade, would be a normal, not especially late place to start.

 

TBH, I think a student who was strong in math could probably manage a lot of university science quite well with little or no high school science of the textbook type, though that might not be ideal.