UPDATE #3 Do I need to just let go of a relationship with my inlaws?

[Ann.without.an.e]

UPDATE to post #173

 

UPDATE to Post #71

 

UPDATE to Post #50

 

 

I am sorry for the length and I am sorry for the typos.  I don't have it in me to proofread right now :(

 

I loved my MIL the moment I met her.  She was open and friendly and so consciously aware of what she should do to be a good mother in law to me.  My FIL was another story.  He berated her, belittled her, and was right out verbally abusive to her.  He treated her and talked about her like she was a complete and total idiot.  She didn't see it as a problem.  She has quite the rose colored glasses and he has convinced her that he is king.  Her first husband was physically abusive so I guess he was better than that?  He talked about 99% of people on planet earth like they were stupid.  Seriously.... relatives, neighbors, kids on the playground became meat to devour in dinner conversation.  He would often stretch the truth and/or flat out lie about situations to make them look bad or create the desired shun on them.  You can't go against or disagree with this man without serious consequences.  So we all sit.  We just sit and let him be the king of his imaginary world where he is perfect and the rest of us are fools.  We all know he is full of BS, but just like the emperor and his new clothes we can't say a thing.  His pride runs too deep.  He is extremely manipulative and he attempts to build cases against everyone, in hopes that people will think that he is wonderful.  My MIL and BIL buy a great portion of the things he says.  He's managed to maintain BIL's heart, he is older than DH and never been married and always lived with and been tied to FIL.  My kids have turned cold toward FIL and not because we have encouraged it.  He's done it all by himself with his strong opinions.  He told us when dd (third child) was right there and plenty old enough to understand that we should have never had more than 2 kids.  No one should have more than 2 kids.  It should be made a law.  He said it with her there.  Basically...you should have never been born. He's the most uptight perfectionist I have ever met and when we go to their house the kids are on eggshells.  He gets very upset about the smallest things.  Once DS dropped popcorn on the driveway and FIL went crazy about the messes kids make.  So they go and they sit like statues on the couch.  They are incredibly uncomfortable around him and at his house.  FIL decided about a year ago that he doesn't want to be at our house so you can imagine the conundrum this puts us in as far as visits.  Ok so here is the sticky part... the one who is hurt in all of this is my sweet, dear MIL.  I love her.  We limit our time with them because of FIL but we would love to spend more time with her and with BIL.  She wears the thickest rose colored glasses I've ever seen anyone wear and she thinks her husband is right, perfect, and amazing.  If he is the cult leader then she has had a steady diet of the Kool-Aid.  Remember also, FIL is always talking negative about us.  I know he is because he talks bad about every single person and it has come out in heated moments -  exactly what he thinks of us ;)  His hatred of me comes back to the day I met them.  We were at a camp and I was walking back at night to my dorm and I guess I walked by him without greeting him?  I don't remember this incident but it has been recounted to me numerous times as the moment he realized that our relationship would not be good.  My honest opinion is that he made it up to set a case against me because I've seen him do it with others.

 

At my beckoning, DH called last weekend to firm up Thanksgiving plans with MIL and she didn't answer.  He left a message and continued to try to call for days with no answer.  He tried his brother a few times.  No answer.  She finally calls me to tell me that she is hurt and angry with the amount of time we spend with them and the fact that it always has to be planned or surround a Holiday.  "You can spend every weekend with your parents and only see us on planned occasions".  You see, the primary problem lies herein....they sit around in their lonely house with the three of them and they dream up things against us.  I rarely see my parents.  Period.  They are very busy people and we are busy people and when I do see them it is because they stop by here for a few minutes.  But in their dreamland they imagine that I go and spend every Saturday sitting at my parent's feet, with my children dancing around in white pressed dresses, and only leave the leftover time for them.  In the conversation, she went on and on about how wonderful they are to us and how hurt she is.  And she spouted all of the analytics they have come up with to figure us out.  You see, I am just an introvert (ha) and I hate being around people (ha ha) and that is where my wall to my FIL comes from.  Why I couldn't keep my mouth closed like usual I have no idea.  I had to expose the lack of clothes.  I couldn't keep my darn mouth shut.  I said that he has never accepted me and always disliked me so of course I have a wall.  She defends him as always and can't have this conversation anymore.  She says that this relationship is too hurtful and she isn't sure she wants it anymore and she hangs up. 

We have had conversations in the past that went worse.  They have called me a b&tch to my face for things I never did but I am sure FIL planted in their heads.  They make up stories about me and they aren't true.  I am hurt and perplexed.  If there was something I could apologize for I would.  I am a peacemaker.  I am quick to forgive and quick to apologize but I can't apologize for generalities or made up things.

 

They don't like me.  I push for peace.  I push to make it work.  I buy the birthday cards, remind DH a million times to sign them, and I post them.  I make the birthday and Christmas plans.  I asked DH to call and firm up Thanksgiving plans.  I remember that it is DH's grandmother's first birthday since she passed and beg him to call his mother.  He didn't know when her birthday was :(  

 

So I want to be done too.  But the peacemaker in me can't stand to let go.  I'm just so sad about it all. 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2015 by Charleigh

[Catwoman]

If your dh doesn't want a relationship with them, I think it's time to let it go.

 

You have done everything possible to make it work, but it sounds like this is a losing battle. :grouphug:

[Jean in Newcastle]

The relationship hurts your dh.  It hurts your children.  It hurts  you.  It doesn't seem to benefit the ILs because they won't let it benefit them.  So yes, I do think you need to let go of it.  :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[MomatHWTK]

http://narcissistschild.blogspot.com/2014/06/the-flying-monkeys-in-your-life.html

 

Your MIL is the monkey. :(

[Harriet Vane]

I'm sorry.

 

Let it go.

 

Continue to make whatever token efforts seem right for your own conscience. Send pictures of the kids or whatever. No declarations, no elaborate explanations. Just do what seems right to you and let the chips fall where they may. Tell your mil you love her when you get the chance.

 

:grouphug:

[Peaceful Isle]

Sounds like you should let it go. Let your dh make the decision to sign the card on his own. If he forgets, then it is not your fault. I tried to be the peacemaker in a situation almost like this, and in the end, it still ended badly. Peace, at what cost? :(

[kitten18]

I would let it go.

 

Your MIL sounds every bit as manipulative as FIL.

[Denise in IN]

You have been beyond gracious to put effort into the relationship for so long, but it sounds awful.  Please don't subject yourself and your family to them any longer! 

 

Something to think about - by pushing this relationship that no one in your immediate family wants (and is actually harmful to you and your family), you risk your own family growing a resentment toward you.  Totally not worth it. Set some boundaries, grieve the lost opportunity, make the token efforts to show them love like Harriet said above, and live in peace with your own family.

[Lady Florida.]

Your MIL does not sound like a person who simply wears rose colored glasses. She sounds like she is a victim of verbal and emotional abuse. That is a big difference.

 

If your dh is done with his own family, it's time for you do be done with them too. He has a much longer history with them and I would defer to him in this case. He knows from years of experience that it will not get better.

 

Peacemaking is not the same thing as trying to hold on to a toxic relationship. Peacemaking is attempting to mend relationships worth saving. These are not worth saving.

 

Let it go. Allow yourself to mourn what could have been, but don't let yourself forget what it was really like. The could have been never really would have been.

 

:grouphug:

[Pink and Green Mom]

This sounds awful. 

 

If your husband isn't interested in a relationship with them I would let it go.  And not look back.  :grouphug:

[TammyS]

  I'm just so sad about it all. 

 

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

This situation sucks, there's nothing you can do about it, and it makes you sad.  That's the truth of it.

 

My advice, FWIW, is to decide on a certain amount of work you are willing to put in and then leave it at that.  So, invite them over 1x per month, or every other month, or whatever.  Go over 1x per quarter, or whatever makes you happy.  And let the rest of it go.  Just let them be crazy in their own crazy world.  Let MIL wear her rose colored glasses.  Let BIL be a disciple at the feet of FIL.  Nothing you can do about any of it.

 

Make your commitment to X number of times per year, and just say "ok" when they say "no".  DO NOT engage with discussions about anything else.  All that nonsense about how much more you see your parents, aside from untrue, is completely irrelevant.   If it were true, it would make no difference whatsoever.  It's all designed to make you defensive and play their game of interacting this way.  Once you engage, you've already lost.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[albeto.]

You've been awfully kind and considerate, and it's pretty clear no one but you finds this relationship valuable. You do because... families should be close, right? I'm guessing here, obviously. It would be the reason I would want to continue what seems to be an uphill climb. I'm saying this because I get the impression from your post that you feel guilty for considering to let this go. I get that impression because you go to great lengths to show us how much effort you've put into this, and what the consequences are (namely, being blamed, and targeted for aggression). I want to encourage you to not feel blame for letting this relationship go. It sounds like it simply cannot exist with the boundaries you have, such as expectation of respect and courtesy. I think those boundaries are worth closing the gate on toxic people, even family.

 

Furthermore, it models for your children self-respect. I suspect you will be able to keep in touch with your MIL for a while, letters, cards, etc, until your FIL turns her against you. That's on her, not you. I think your FIL sounds like a bitter, frustrated, frightened old man, and your family simply cannot care for his dysfunctional needs. He does his best with what he has (his brain chemistry and the circumstances of his personal experiences), and you can't affect these things. You can only look out for the emotional security of your immediate family. So while you grieve the passing of this relationship, I hope you will find comfort in the kick-assery of your showing your kids just what it looks like to stand up for yourself with class and dignity. 

[PeachyDoodle]

You have gone above and beyond in your efforts to forge a relationship with your dh's family, and to see that he and your children have one too. I, for one, find that to be generous and selfless and admirable on your part. You should be commended for it. Unfortunately, in the end, it takes two parties to maintain a relationship, and the other party clearly isn't interested in treating you with the love and respect you've shown them.

 

I know it must be devastating, especially since you care deeply for your MIL, to be rejected by her. But please understand that she has not rejected you, she has chosen her husband. She chose him years ago, and probably will always choose him when it comes right down to it. It's clear where her loyalties lie. She will have to live with the consequences of her actions.

 

Please don't feel bad about not continuing to put yourself and your family in harm's way.

[bolt.]

I can see that you feel protective of your MIL, but in her own 'sweet' way, she is also terribly dysfunctional -- she isn't an innocent victim, and I don't think you need to worry if your decisions are fair-to-her. You need to make the decisions that are right for you (ethically, relationally, and for your dependants).

 

You can keep up 'steady effort, but no more'.

You can do 'less effort, token overatures'

You can do 'no contact, too damaging'

 

But don't make decisions in the middle of "I'm misjudged, in spite of being good, and trying hard!" -- You've been insulted, and you are angry. But ethics are not based on emotion, but on a rational approach to the realities of the situation. Wait until you calm down (a few weeks) before making long-term changes to a plan you formerly thought of as 'the right thing to do'. (But do feel free to 'take a break' while you calm down and think over making changes.)

[gardenmom5]

have you read 'boundaries - when to say yes, how to say no?"

your fil is mentally abusive, and probably very manipulative.  the unforgivable sin to such a person is to not "need" them.  re: have a life.

 

what your mil said comes from her husband - please recognize that. what you can do with/for her, I don't know. 

eta: you and your dh have the *responsibility* to *protect* your children from this man, and the dysfunction of his supporters.

 

-she lives with her husband and is constantly exposed to his moods and prejudices. she was previously married to someone physically abusive.  she is not emotionally in a position to stand on her own feet and be mentally and emotionally independent. she is weak, and will bend in the direction of the most powerful position exerting influence upon her.

Edited November 29, 2015 by gardenmom5

[krsmom]

I could have written this. Only the fil is my mother. I am just sharing that so you know you are not alone. For some of us in similar situations we are told that we are crazy, not saying that is how you feel, just trying to validate that these toxic people do exist and behave in the way you have described. 

 

Nothing you do will change their behavior. Read Boundaries and all you can about narcissistic personality disorder if you can.

 

[marbel]

:grouphug: :grouphug:    It's your husband's family; let him take the lead on this.   If I understand correctly, he doesn't want a relationship with them.  Why are you trying to force it on him?   I agree with others that you are hurting your own family as you try to form/keep a bond with your MIL. 

 

Maybe things will change when your FIL dies.  I have seen more than a few women blossom when an overbearing, dysfunctional husband dies.  Sorry to put it so bluntly.
 

[Rosie_0801]

Defer the relationship with MIL until FIL shuffles off the mortal plane.

 

DON'T feel guilty. You didn't do any of this. You can't fix bastardry.

[Anne in CA]

I am sorry for your pain. IME, making peace with people like your FIL is just not possible. A tyrant does not want peace, they want to exercise control over others for a power trip. Your dh knows this, he knows a real relationship is not possible, and you will be  lot happier if you accept the truth. Wheat your FIL did to your third child should tell you that these people should not be around your children. They did everything they could to ruin your dh's childhood, and they would like to ruin your children's childhood also. The real question is... are you going to let them?

 

 

[happi duck]

(Hugs)

[bettyandbob]

Let it go. Once you get past the pain of it being over, you will be relieved.

[Xahm]

I have no experience with this, but if I were in your shoes I'd back off, sending greeting cards with pictures and short notes only. If mil or bil wakes up and needs out, be there for them then. But know that for them, they can't have a relationship with you and a happy home life. It is a terrible happy life, but it's what they've chosen. It will make their lives easier if you bow out gracefully, and it sounds like, sadly, the easy path is what they are capable of at this time.

[Storygirl]

I'm very sorry. It sounds like you value your relationship with your MIL, and that she has hurt your feelings pretty severely. Since she said she wasn't sure that she could continue the relationship, I think if I were you I might send her a lovely Christmas card with a picture of the children and a sweet note, saying that you will honor her wishes and not contact her, but that you love her and hope your relationship will heal in the future. And then leave it up to her. Send her a card on her birthday and remind your husband to call her, if he chooses. Be cordial but keep your distance. It sounds very painful. I'm sorry.

[zoobie]

Your husband wants to let go of a toxic relationship. His parents abused him. Yes, both. MIL allowed FIL to abuse her child. She may be (likely is) abused herself, but that does not absolve her conduct. She is a conspirator to the abuse. She's the one who lures FIL's victims back into the lair. Now she's guilting and manipulating you for not showing up for more heaping helpings of abuse. Respect your DH's decision to let go of this relationship. Protect him and your children.

[Word Nerd]

I'm sorry. It is a sad situation, and it's not fair to you at all. I would send a card and not call or visit unless the situation changes. I'd also stop pushing DH to maintain a relationship with them.

[Garga]

You wrote: "And yet they have called me a b&tch to my face for things I never did but I am sure FIL planted in their heads."

 

Your MIL and BIL called you that?

 

For me, that would be going too far, unless they use a lot of language in their normal conversation. I've never in my life been called that and if someone did I would feel that they just hated me. I wouldn't be able to trust them after that.

 

I'd let the relationship go. It's one thing for the FIL who calls everyone names to call you names, but when MIL and BIL do it, too, well...that's a crossed line for me. The only way it would be sort of ok, is if they use a lot of language in their everyday speech and they meant it lightly. In my circles, calling someone that would be fraught with hatred. It would be considered very strong. I know that's most certainly not the case for many people, but for me it is.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Garga

[SparklyUnicorn]

Screw them.  He sounds even worse than my MIL.  I didn't think that was possible.

I'm very sorry.  It does hurt when people are unreasonable jerks.

 

 

[Chris in VA]

I'm so sorry. I don't have anything to add, I'm just really sorry you have this to deal with. :grouphug:

[abba12]

Havent read all the responses

 

It sounds like you've written about my mother in law and father in law, perfectly, down to MIL crying about how we dont see them often enough while seeing my family, after having to limit contact because FIL has my kids too frightened to move from the 'playroom' at their house (which MIL set up to try and give some relief, I think her rose coloured glasses are slightly thinner)

 

I have found ways to involve MIL without FIL. We ask MIL to babysit at OUR house, FIL has no interest in babysitting so she comes alone, which is great (we will not leave the children unattended with FIL, at all ever). MIL has been known to stop in after work, and I try, from time to time, to invite her to do things which are 'women only' or things FIL will have no interest in. It's not perfect but it works. We feel sorry for MIL and want to try, for as long as is reasonable, to let her be part of her grandkids lives despite her husband. 

 

But, having said that, if your MILs rose tinted glasses are thicker than mine she may not go for the separate visits, or understand the subtle invitation that says 'don't bring FIL'. If that's the case.... there's honestly only so much you can do. Be honest with her, and if the relationship fails, it's not your fault, you've gone above and beyond to let it continue. Some situations can't be fixed. 

[SharonM]

I haven't read all the responses, but this is your dh's family. If he is done, why are you tormenting him with this? Just because you want peace isn't enough of a reason. Let them go.

[Jyhwkmama]

You need to completely drop the rope with them and be DONE.

 

Make a Babycenter.com account and get help with this from the ladies of DWIL Nation. They can be blunt, but blunt is what you need. Why do you keep subjecting your children to the verbal abuse of your FIL? You should never see him again. The fact that your MIL and BIL were PA about Thanksgiving plans and then your MIL laid on the guilt makes them complicit. Follow your husband's lead and just stop.

[mamajag]

I could have written this post about my ILs. Cut the rope. Seriously. Cutting them out and moving 500 miles away was far and away the best thing my family has ever done. We didn't know how much it was affecting us until we are gone, and frankly almost 3 months later we're still processing it all.

 

It feels so good to make decisions based on what is best for my family and not based on how unstable, narcisstic people are going to react. I wasted 12 years trying to be a peacemaker. Don't be me.

[purplejackmama]

Yes. Be done. You are free. Breathe deeply and then live in peace. You tried. Accept no guilt or condemnation.

Edited November 30, 2015 by purplejackmama

[foxbridgeacademy]

Dh's mother is a manipulative and destructive narcissist whose husband (Dh's father) never saw for who she really is.  We cut all communication over 10 years ago and our lives have been so peaceful since.  MIL recently decided that FIL was no longer useful (he was laid off) and she decided he was going senile so she divorced him (he's been checked out by several doctors and he's fine).  We heard about the divorce and DH got in touch with his sweet but deluded father.  He came to our house for thanksgiving, we'll go there for Christmas.  It was nice and uncomplicated.  So IME the healthiest thing to do is cut ties and wait for them to come to their senses or not, but you do yourself and your family no good by chasing after the love and approval that will never come.  

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug:

 

Many many times I have been so grateful my in-laws live on the other side of the world. They still manage to impact negatively on our life at times though.

[jrn]

:grouphug: family stuff is hard.

[ashfern]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

Dh's mother is a manipulative and destructive narcissist whose husband (Dh's father) never saw for who she really is. We cut all communication over 10 years ago and our lives have been so peaceful since. MIL recently decided that FIL was no longer useful (he was laid off) and she decided he was going senile so she divorced him (he's been checked out by several doctors and he's fine). We heard about the divorce and DH got in touch with his sweet but deluded father. He came to our house for thanksgiving, we'll go there for Christmas. It was nice and uncomplicated. So IME the healthiest thing to do is cut ties and wait for them to come to their senses or not, but you do yourself and your family no good by chasing after the love and approval that will never come.

It was very kind of your dh to get back in touch with his father after the divorce, and so nice of you and your family to include him in your holiday celebrations. It's so sad that your dh lost all those years with him because of your MIL, though.

[Seasider]

My mom has a seriously dysfunctional codependent relationship with her 2nd husband. Just this last year, my sister and I have come to the painful understanding that she is lost to us, at least until they, certainly through death, are parted. It's sad for all, mostly the grandchildren that will have no relationship with their grandparent. But the bottom line, it's nothing about what my sister or I have done or failed to do. It is entirely the result of her choices. Even though it's disappointing, there

is a degree of peace from that realization.

 

Be ready to welcome either of them with forgiveness if they have a change of heart, but don't devote any more emotional energy to nurturing a nonexistent relationship.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Seasider

[Lisbeth]

I probably wouldn't give your MIL much of a pass here.  More of a pass than FIL, but she sounds like a great enabler and a manipulator all on her own.  The bottom line for me is:  I wouldn't go anywhere my kids had to walk on egg shells or hear me verbally abused. 

 

I've always liked this:  "If I cut you off, chances are, you handed me the scissors." 

 

Snip, snip, OP.  And hugs.

[LucyStoner]

Your husband wants to let go of a toxic relationship. His parents abused him. Yes, both. MIL allowed FIL to abuse her child. She may be (likely is) abused herself, but that does not absolve her conduct. She is a conspirator to the abuse. She's the one who lures FIL's victims back into the lair. Now she's guilting and manipulating you for not showing up for more heaping helpings of abuse. Respect your DH's decision to let go of this relationship. Protect him and your children.

Yup.

 

BTDT- I had to accept that no matter how kind my MIL can seem to be, to my husband she will always be held at a distance as the mother who didn't protect him from his abusive alcoholic father. That's his call to make and a perfectly reasonable one. We see her and her new husband maybe 2x a year. We don't do more than that. That's that. I text her some pictures. I don't coax him to reach out to her. That's his decision, not mine.

[clementine]

My MIL is extremely unpleasant.  I get it.   :grouphug: 

 

No matter how detached I try to be, I still end up being hurt by her words.  I have come to the realization that it will never be the relationship I hoped for, but that doesn't make it any easier.  

 

I think if you just let go of the relationship, you'll feel guilt.  If you don't let go of the relationship, you'll always be hurt/angry.  IMO, this is a no-win situation.   I live it every day.   :grouphug:

[NorthwestMom]

Your husband wants to let go of a toxic relationship. His parents abused him. Yes, both. MIL allowed FIL to abuse her child. She may be (likely is) abused herself, but that does not absolve her conduct. She is a conspirator to the abuse. She's the one who lures FIL's victims back into the lair. Now she's guilting and manipulating you for not showing up for more heaping helpings of abuse. Respect your DH's decision to let go of this relationship. Protect him and your children.

 

:iagree:

 

Why would you knowingly expose your family to people like that? F Them. They can go pound sand.

 

Your children are watching and learning about relationships. What are they learning from this one? How to take abuse and go back for more?

[applethyme]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  If you are asking the question then you know the answer in your heart.

[foxbridgeacademy]

:iagree:

 

Why would you knowingly expose your family to people like that? F Them. They can go pound sand.

 

Your children are watching and learning about relationships. What are they learning from this one? How to take abuse and go back for more?

This, for me, is the biggest point in favor of letting go. 

[Seasider]

I probably wouldn't give your MIL much of a pass here.  More of a pass than FIL, but she sounds like a great enabler and a manipulator all on her own.  The bottom line for me is:  I wouldn't go anywhere my kids had to walk on egg shells or hear me verbally abused. 

 

I've always liked this:  "If I cut you off, chances are, you handed me the scissors." 

 

Snip, snip, OP.  And hugs.

 

Brilliant!

[SproutMamaK]

Yes, you need to let it go. I understand that you want more for your husband and children, that you wish they had a healthy relationship with loving extended family. But that is not reality, and continuing to act as though your in-laws were supportive, loving people when they are not will not make the dream any more true. It's time to let go of the ideal of the perfect extended family and make the best of the family you DO have... and sometimes "making the best of it" means stopping the relationship altogether so that no one can be further harmed.

[IdahoHomeschooler]

I'm going to second the recommendation to check out DWIL Nation on babycenter.com. Your MIL isn't a poor woman wearing rose colored glasses, she is an enabler. Enablers can often actually be *worse* than the abuser.

 

Stop pushing your poor husband and children to be food for your abusive narcissistic FIL to chew up and spit out. Where is your instinct to protect your children? Why do you want them hurt and damaged by their grandparents? Why do you want them to think that being in an abusive relationship and serving up your loved ones to abusers is normal and desirable? Why are you chasing the love and affection of people who hate you? Are you serving up your husband and children to these people in hopes that they will eventually love and accept you?

[Ann.without.an.e]

After weeks of no contact from either side, DH visited them yesterday.  The visit was good and, like always, they didn't even talk about how they exploded on me on the phone.  This is the same as always...we don't talk about it.  No apology, no explanation.  We are just supposed to move on like nothing ever happened.  And, of course, DH is game for that.  I have always gone with that in the past but I just can't this time.  What in the world should I do?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I agree with the others: It's time to let these family ties go. Really. There are some people who simply will not see reality. Stop being a punching bag for them, because it's not helping anyone. Especially don't subject your children to these people anymore. 

 

I'm sorry  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: