I need to know the nitty gritty on Math Mammoth vs Singapore for 2nd grade

[sunshineslp]

My kids do Right Start now.  We are finishing up B and I want to switch to another curriculum.  I like both MM and SM but for different reasons.  My son does not love the visual look of MM and usually gets very overwhelmed.  I could maybe help by covering some problems, etc, if I went with that curriculum. 

 

So please tell me your honest opinions on either for a big family to use (I need ease of use, ease of teaching, strong but appropriate even for not extremely MATHY kids or parents).  I know both can be difficult to use for different reasons.  What is your take on them? 

 

I've heard SM makes conceptual leaps where MM maybe doesnt.

But then I've heard MM can sometimes be too brief in the explanation and more is needed. 

[Gil]

I have no experience with either RightStart or Singapore, but we used MM and loved it. What do you want to know?

Math Mammoth is very conceptual and thorough. I used an older version of it, not sure which. Also, I don't think that two kids count as a "big" family.

 

I found it best to combine my sons in skill-based work like math and reading as they are close in age and similar in abilities. 

Math Mammoth is an elementary program, so I'm so sure about what types of conceptual leaps it could take.

2nd grade has a lot of place value and base-10 work, its mostly addition and subtraction up to 3 or 4 places, fluency with math facts and some basic geometry, maybe measurement. Its been a while.

 

The layout might have been a slight problem, but you could try using a small post-its to cover up some problems, folding the page and splitting the worksheet between lesson time and independent work, copy out some problems on a separate sheet so that he isn't as overwhelmed or switch into "mean-mom" mode and make the kid do all of the problems anyway. Your choice.

[sunshineslp]

I have four kids:)  only schooling 2 now, but 3 in the fall and 4 soon after that.

 

I want to know if MM has been easy to teach, or if it lacked in explanation? 

[Curlymom]

We have used Math Mammoth but not Singapore. The Math Mammoth sheets can be overwhelming as a lot is packed into one page. That's my biggest complaint about it - I wish it were more visually appealing.

As for explanations, each new concept has an explanation but I do have to introduce the concept and explain it myself. I wouldn't say it is hard to teach, but I do find that I sometimes have to present the material in a different way for it to make sense to my kids. But I have a feeling I would have to do that regardless of which program we used.

I have two using Math Mammoth right now, one in 3rd and one using a combination of 4th and 5th.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Curlymom

[IdahoHomeschooler]

My daughter had a harder time with MM than Singapore, but I'm not sure why. Honestly, I think it was likely the layout and lack of engaging drawings, with Singapore being more visually appealing. I preferred MM because it was easy to print and contained everything on the worksheets, whereas Singapore had the textbooks, workbooks, and home instructors guides, plus there are two different editions that can make buying a bit confusing. My opinion is that they are both great programs, but MM is more user friendly for homeschoolers. There is also direct support available from the author, and the price is fantastic when purchased from Homeschool Buyers Coop. Another bonus for MM is that it can be done on a tablet for portability. That appealed to me, but YMMV.

 

Unfortunately, neither program was what my daughter needed, and we switched to CLE with raging success. I still have a fondness for both MM and Singapore, and actually own both. I've been slowly letting go of Singapore as she passes the levels, but it is sad for me, lol.

[fourisenough]

MM has been perfect for this family of 4 kids. 2 are now in school, but the ease-of-use was a big draw for me when we first switched to it years ago. My all-MM-all-the-time kid has become fantastically mathy. She has rock-solid computational skills and great problem-solving ability. She's finishing up MM7 now and will move into Foerster Algebra 1 next. We've dabbled with other supplements over the years, but MM has been the one constant. As for the lay-out: *shrug*. Doesn't really bother me, but then I don't need my math to be inspiring or beautiful in design.

 

DD6 is near the end of MM1B. She seems to be following in big sister's footsteps. I wouldn't say she loves math, but she will be very good at it by the time she finishes MM. We're also using SM IP and a bit of Miquon for variety, but only because I can see she's going to move pretty quickly through MM and I'd rather go deep than fast.

[sunshineslp]

Debra, I didn't know you could use MM on the tablet... how is that? Is there an app?

[sunshineslp]

thank you all so much!  you have all helped me greatly.  I already own grades 1-3 of MM light blue series.  I tried it but both my boys were very overwhelmed with the layout.  It's not that math needs to be "pretty" but i think a certain child needs a certain thing, kwim?  So i am hoping once he grows a bit that we can come back to MM.  because I love it as well.  Maybe in the mean time I will try singapore to see how it goes...

[Syllieann]

We use mm, and I've used RS a and Miquon Orange as well. I have two kids schooling plus a toddler. I love mm because it is so intuitive to me and easy to use. I don't need to pre-read, everything is streamlined. I don't need a gazillion crazy supplements. The mastery style makes it easy to tell when we should skip ahead vs park it for awhile. It lends itself to independence.

 

I think there is enough teacher support, but my kids grasp math things easily. I am also a math/science person, and I have done my math in the style that is now called Asian or conceptual for as long as I can remember. I wasn't taught that way, it just makes sense to me and requires the least mental effort for me. As such, I might not be the best judge of teacher support, but Maria is very responsive to emails and has a bunch of math teaching videos to help out too.

 

My oldest had no problems with mm layout. He is accelerated and was doing mm2 in kindy. I usually did the teaching box on the white board. Then he did the rest independently. This year he is doing mm3 and reads the teaching box himself and works pretty independently. I check to make sure he understands the directions before I let him loose on it. Sometimes I need to offer a hint of puzzle corner.

 

My dd is doing mm1 and has some issues with the layout. To remedy this, I do a couple things. First, I use a few different color highlighters to mark the boxes. She knows which color she is on, so if she looks away for a moment she can find her place again more easily. I also take it off the page by using c-rods, then point her to the place she needs to write. I like to have here write it since it doubles as handwriting, but you could just do it orally too.

[sunshineslp]

that is a great idea Syllieann, I love that approach.  especially the highlighter!  I have a question about the C rods... I really want to start teaching this approach but do I need to do the miquon to do that?  is there a simple or easier way to teach it?  Ive seen some of the education unboxed videos, could i just watch those to help teach myself what to do?  i really don't want to start a whole other curriculum (miquon) but i do want to do the C rods...

[Syllieann]

You don't need Miquon. If you watched the education unboxed videos you should be able to do addition and subtraction with a missing part. I only use them with mm1. Ods was done with them before he did mm2. I think they would still be helpful, but maybe not to the extent that they are in mm 1 where most of the work is number bonds to 20. They can be used to demonstrate area and multiplication too as you move up. I think the rods are probably the most versatile manipulative around.

[ByGrace3]

I am a nonmathy parent with both mathy and non mathy kids. MM has been great for everyone. We have had moments of doubt and I considered switching but then my nonmathy dd took standardized tests last year (in 4th grade after using MM 1-5A) and did phenomenal on the testing. She gets math. Challenging word problems that would have freaked me out pre-MM now are easy for us both to do. I did through precalculus but only learned via memorizing and plug and chug method -- never really understood anything. The conceptual understanding MM has provided has been amazing.

 

Now every once in awhile we skip a lesson that is unneeded (because they have already learned 4 ways to do that and one more is not necessary) and my 5 yo is doing only 1 page a day so she is not overwhelmed. My ds does a lot orally and on a white board and I write down the answers...my older dd does it almost completely on her own. Only one time in 5 grades of it did I feel the teaching was not enough for us-- that's pretty impressive to me. Different kids, different needs-- but we can tweak things to make it work for everyone.

Edited November 21, 2015 by ByGrace3

[kiwik]

Debra, I didn't know you could use MM on the tablet... how is that? Is there an app?

It is a writeable PDF. Make a copy for the child and they and they can type on it with the typing tool. It is a bit hard to manage with a mouse so i think a touch screen would work better.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

that is a great idea Syllieann, I love that approach.  especially the highlighter!  I have a question about the C rods... I really want to start teaching this approach but do I need to do the miquon to do that?  is there a simple or easier way to teach it?  Ive seen some of the education unboxed videos, could i just watch those to help teach myself what to do?  i really don't want to start a whole other curriculum (miquon) but i do want to do the C rods...

 

I found the Ed Unboxed videos to be significantly more helpful than any of the Mequon teacher support materials!  You can easily learn to teach with C rods from these videos.  

 

I have both SM and MM.  I like to teach directly, and have been using SM to do so.  However, when my dd got stuck on a concept in SM1, we did MM1a just to tread water, and when we went back to SM1, she zoomed through it.  I like having both.  lol.  I may be doing the same with my son as he finishes SM4a.  He "got" it, but was very shaky by the end.  I'm thinking either going through MM4a or the MM4 Review book before going into decimals might be a good idea.  Still debating.  

 

Math Mammoth is cheaper, in theory it's independent, and it offers more options than SM for review, additional practice, etc.  

SM is the bare essentials, which makes it easier to go through for a child who simply needs a topic presented well, and is then ready to go on.  You don't need to debate which problems to do or not do, etc.  At least, not as long as you aren't adding in all their extra books!  

 

I don't think you can go wrong with either, honestly.  :-)  

[vaquitita]

I have four kids, two in school, one who will start in the fall (he does some stuff now, only when he asks for it), and a 2yo. I used RS and MEP in the past, but needed something less time consuming. I switched to PM, we've been using it for almost two years now. It is less teacher intense than RS. I spend 10-20 minutes teaching a lesson (sometimes I teach more than one lesson so that I'm not teaching every day to every kid) and they do the workbook independently. They are usually working in their workbook 1-2 weeks behind where we are in the TB. This allows them to get started on their workbooks in the morning themselves, and I teach the lessons during nap time. It also means if a day doesn't go well and I dont teach a lesson, it doesnt prevent them from doing their workbook.

 

I looked at MM, and tried using one of their topical books (time), but it wasn't a good fit for us. The pages were way too cluttered for my oldest, he would get overwhelmed. Now he's in 3B of PM and there are pages with more problems on them, but he's better able to deal with it now. I don't know if the time book is a good example of how MM works or not, but it really annoyed my son because you'd practice one tiny thing, then it would add another tiny piece and make you practice that, over and over. It seemed really repetitive. It annoyed me too, LOL. It seemed like focusing on one individual tree at a time and never stepping back to see the forest. I don't know how my other kids would have done with it, but my daughter, who is a completely different kid/learner, is also doing well with PM.

 

Eta: I prefer using the c rods to teach PM rather than the suggested manipulatives in the HIG. I think once you watch a few videos on education unboxed, you'll get the hang of it. I am now using miquon Orange with my 5yo, but I still think the EU videos are more helpful than the miquon teacher books.

 

Eta2: after reading your other post on Singapore math, I thought I'd add: if you are having trouble teaching a concept, read the HIG. Sometimes I just teach from the textbook, but if my son isn't getting it, then I pull out the HIG. I recently had to do this for long division. When I pulled out the HIG, they had gradually built up teaching long division, several lessons before it was introduced in the textbook.

Edited November 21, 2015 by vaquitita

[sunshineslp]

thanks ladies;)  so let me ask then:  are you both using anything extra for review/practice, like the IP or CWP?  Or the extra practice SM puts out?  Would those make it a better program since people seem to think it lacks review?