Childless late twenties, 30 somethings asserting themselves by saying how awful kids are.

[38carrots]

It this a trend? My FB is full of young women in their 30s who are married / in relationships, but who seemingly can't live without posting a variation of "I hate kids, I will neve have them" status updates every other week. And those who just had kids, admit that those kids were an oops and they like totally ruined their lives. And puppies are way better. And newborn babies are ugly. Which I think that physically yes, they are scrunched up and red and what not, but they are so *new* and such a miracle (and I'm not even religious), that they are beautiful because of that, and it doesn't matter that they are all red and wrinkly.

 

And then my kids had a visiting martial arts instructor who told them that they were "energy sucking parasites" and of course it wasn't his only joke, and everybody laughed and the kids knew he was joking, and yet my 8 year old came over afterwards and wanted me to make sure she wasn't an energy sucking parasite. And even my 11 year old was a bit put off for a few seconds.

 

But what it is a badge of honour, it seems, to declare that a baby ruined one's life, when the new mom is 32, in a stable relationship, with so much family support she doesn't even need to see her baby much?

 

So this is the newest thing being posted, and maybe I'm overly sensitive and I can't see how this is funny. But maybe it is funny. Is it funny? Why is it funny? https://www.facebook.com/buzzfeedmatt/videos/938417086219169/

 

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I have plenty of childless women in their 20s to 40s on my FB.  Some are in long term relationships and some aren't.  I have never seen a post about parenthood being a mistake or one about kids being a bad idea.

[38carrots]

I have plenty of childless women in their 20s to 40s on my FB.  Some are in long term relationships and some aren't.  I have never seen a post about parenthood being a mistake or one about kids being a bad idea.

 

Are they religious and want to have family one day?

 

I ended up with about a dozen or two of such young women on my FB friends due to DD's interests and connections. Young professionals, finishing college, some married, some single, some owner of their own businesses. They are mostly photographers, dog trainers or horse trainers. I wonder if this is significant, that they are into animals more than into babies. They keep saying how they would rather have a dog or a horse or any other pet, than a child. Most declare, and quite often, that they will never have children.

 

I don't know why I'm struggling with their posts so much, an example would be that babies are disgusting...And I'm not even a baby person myself! I loved mine, I co-slept, and carried them in slings everywhere and did the whole Attachment Parenting thig, but even then I'm not a baby person. But they were mine, and I did what I, at that time, thought worked the best for us. Anyway.

 

I'm irritated by them and can't help but think that there's something wrong with those public proclamations. Set me straight! lol

[T'smom]

I have never seen that kind of post either. I have certainly never seen one saying that newborns are ugly?!?! Seriously?!? Newborns are gorgeous. (Ok, maybe I have seen one or two that weren't totally breathtaking- but really, only one or two and I have seen a lot of babies!) I do have a SIL who is a little adamant about not wanting to have kids, but I think it is because she gets sick of people questioning her or whatever. She certainly doesn't say anything negative about other people's kids.

[frogger]

I have seen a lot of those types of posts from certain subset of facebook friends. I think it is sad that they would describe another human being in the ways they do. They are being ahem "authentic" or some such garbage. What it comes across as in my viewpoint is childish and unloving. If you don't want children and don't have them fine but we all were children once and see reposts of f### toddlers blog drives me nuts. I hid that site from my feed. Yes, toddlers do take a lot of energy but they give something very valuable in return and help us grow up ourselves. I wonder what it will be like for these people when they are back to needing help as an elderly person. Do they even know that is coming?

[Garga]

I couldn't stand kids before I had my own. So I sort of get it.

 

I'm sooooooo glad that I wasn't on any social media before I had kids. I probably would have posted all sorts of terrible things about how much I couldn't stand kids and then I would be completely mortified now.

 

When I had kids of my own, I fell into a love that I never even knew was possible. And all of a sudden, kids didn't seem so bad anymore. I mean, my kids were (are) completely perfect and I love them totally, but all of a sudden I even liked other people's kids! Amazing!

 

I understand the people who don't have kids saying stupid stuff that they'll regret. I do not understand the people who have kids saying the stupid stuff. I can see a little joke here and there about not having time or sleep or something, but I would never say that my kids ruined my life.

[*lifeoftheparty*]

Nope- this is not a thing in my circles.... thank goodness!!!

Everyone that I know, even the ones who don't have or want children, are very positive about kids.... my FB is full of baby pictures, and toddler pictures.... with tons of positive comments... I have several childless by chouce friends and they frequently like and/or comment on my posts/pics of my kids.

I myself will sometimes post "my kids are driving me crazy" statuses, and so will other moms... but the comments on those are just other moms saying, "Been there, lol"

[Garga]

Oh, and before I had kids, I did think that babies were ugly. I'm so sorry. But I really did. People would bring in pictures of babies and everyone would say, "Oh, how cute!" and I would be completely perplexed. They were not cute. They were...ugly. I thought everyone was just saying that to be nice. I honestly, totally, 100% thought that babies were ugly. I wasn't trying to be mean. I remember a coworker brought in pictures of her new granddaughter, but then she turned to me and said, "And I know you prefer cats. So, here are some pictures of my cats." I remember that those were really cute cats and I could oo and ah over the cats in a genuine way, unlike my pretend oo-ing and ah-ing over baby pictures.

 

The day my son was born, I took one look at him and thought, "Oh my goodness! He's sooooo beautiful!" I would sit and stare at him for hours on end, my heart swelling with love, and think, "I have the most beautiful baby ever! I've never seen a baby that was actually beautiful before!" I was proud that I'd managed to make the only beautiful baby in the world.

 

I think it wasn't for about 2 years before it dawned on me that he looked exactly the same as every other baby ever looks. But I was the one who was different. My eyes were opened. He wasn't the most beautiful baby in the world, but he was mine and I was so besotted that he became beautiful to me.

 

And now, I do think they're all beautiful.

 

Hopefully, the people you know on Facebook will grow up. I was very immature.

 

(But I still don't understand the ones who have kids.)

[HS Mom in NC]

If any of my FB friends said nasty things about anyone like that, I would unfriend them.  Who needs that kind of crap in your life?  I don't understand why people keep obnoxious people on their FB feed.  Either unfollow them or unfriend them.

My female, childless friends are a wide range of religious and non-religious people. I have never asked them if they want marriage and/or kids so I have no idea where they stand on that.  What they have in common is manners.  I can't imagine any of them posting something really negative about children even if they have decided motherhood isn't for them.  I've never seen a parent post anything other than an amused, tired, "kids make you crazy" anecdote about antics and mischief. 

[imagine.more]

Whoa, that would drive me nuts too! Thankfully I don't have many people in my life who would talk like this. A few who might do the whole "phew, my dog is a lot of work, much less work than a kid thank goodness!" or some such silliness but nothing overtly awful. 

 

My sister is a single, childless, 29 year old who is bartending and getting her masters' degree but she fully admits she'd love to have kids someday. She's not baby crazy by any means and is atheist so it's not like she's a crazy Catholic like me ;) but she just knows that she's cool with where she's at now but she'd love to someday soon be in a stable relationship and have a child herself. In the meantime she's happy to enjoy her relatively simple single lifestyle with her puppy and dote on my kids. I think she has a healthy view on it and I'd hope most others who are currently childless singles or young married couples could be as gracious as she is to kids and those adults who have kids. 

[DesertBlossom]

My mom said someone told her she was never having kids because they came out all slimey and bloody. ?? You know you can wash 'em, right?

[Tsuga]

It this a trend? My FB is full of young women in their 30s who are married / in relationships, but who seemingly can't live without posting a variation of "I hate kids, I will neve have them" status updates every other week. And those who just had kids, admit that those kids were an oops and they like totally ruined their lives. And puppies are way better. And newborn babies are ugly. Which I think that physically yes, they are scrunched up and red and what not, but they are so *new* and such a miracle (and I'm not even religious), that they are beautiful because of that, and it doesn't matter that they are all red and wrinkly.

 

And then my kids had a visiting martial arts instructor who told them that they were "energy sucking parasites" and of course it wasn't his only joke, and everybody laughed and the kids knew he was joking, and yet my 8 year old came over afterwards and wanted me to make sure she wasn't an energy sucking parasite. And even my 11 year old was a bit put off for a few seconds.

 

But what it is a badge of honour, it seems, to declare that a baby ruined one's life, when the new mom is 32, in a stable relationship, with so much family support she doesn't even need to see her baby much?

 

So this is the newest thing being posted, and maybe I'm overly sensitive and I can't see how this is funny. But maybe it is funny. Is it funny? Why is it funny? https://www.facebook.com/buzzfeedmatt/videos/938417086219169/

 

I think it is a trend. I think there are a lot of social and biological (on the scale of the species) reasons that people are having less babies. I think it is mildly healthier than famine as a means of population control. I think that as we reach capacity of the earth, if we haven't exceeded it, it makes sense for people to have fewer babies and if people need to talk themselves out of it or are blabbing about their choice, fine by me. I have two children, and my partner has two, so we're at replacement level around here and don't mind at all if others choose not to have babies. Their inheritance is just going to get spent on themselves, into consumables, and eventually be possessed by the banks when they die and it all goes back in the pool. Mine goes to my own kids and who knows if they'll choose to procreate?

 

I don't think it's selfish to end your gene line at yourself--sounds fun--but I'm keeping mine going on for one more generation. I think part of the reaction is that people feel under pressure from parents and aunts and uncles and society to make babies. Believe it or not, society is pretty pro-family and pro-baby compared to the alternative, so they probably feel the need to defend their choices.

 

I do think some people are rude about it but if I had a penny for every time someone on Facebook was a self-absorbed twit, parent or not, I'd be writing this post from my villa in Hawaii.

[VeteranMom]

I recall some friends of my parents who were child-free when I was a kid.  They were very blunt and rude about their choice not to have kids.  I think these people have always existed, but now we see them more due to social websites.  I really don't see many examples of what you describe on my facebook feed.  Most of what I see is people who haven't had kids posting about how lazy/rude/disrespectful kids are these days and how they weren't that way when they were kids.    

[Desert Strawberry]

I haven't seen much of that. I have a few childless women, 20s to 40s. They are good aunties, good big sisters, kind and loving. 

I understand not wanting kids. It's a big deal. It can mess up your career and your plans. But there's no need to be hateful.

[38carrots]

I have seen a lot of those types of posts from certain subset of facebook friends. I think it is sad that they would describe another human being in the ways they do. They are being ahem "authentic" or some such garbage. What it comes across as in my viewpoint is childish and unloving. If you don't want children and don't have them fine but we all were children once and see reposts of f### toddlers blog drives me nuts. I hid that site from my feed. Yes, toddlers do take a lot of energy but they give something very valuable in return and help us grow up ourselves. I wonder what it will be like for these people when they are back to needing help as an elderly person. Do they even know that is coming?

 

Yeah, they throw around the word "authenticity" a lot. I wonder what's that about.

[Danestress]

I haven't seen that. My guess is that they are getting pressure to start families and are writings posts to make clear that people should not expect that, and that they don't need pity or concern because they have chosen not to have children.

[Veritaserum]

I'm Facebook friends with several childless-by-choice women from 20-40. Only one is obnoxious. She's my age (mid-30s), married, educated, and employed. She doesn't want kids, which is totally valid. I don't think anyone should choose to have kids if they don't actually want to be parents. Sometimes, though, she pushes it to make it seem like childfree is the best option for any intelligent woman, which I think is stupid. Raising children has its ups and downs. Have kids, don't have kids--that's up to you. Disparaging other people's reproductive choices is in poor taste, but disparaging children is worse.

 

(Says the woman with six children.)

[Luanne]

I have never disliked children. I don't dislike them today, but I do dislike the fact that a lot of parents refuse to discipline their children now and think their child screaming full volume in a store is normal and acceptable.

[Carol in Cal.]

The guy in the video?  He's just a jerk who has nothing but his whiny self to love.  I wouldn't worry about him at all.  He is not worth the space in your head.

 

The women, I dunno.  I remember kind of disavowing having babies when I was single, so as to avoid giving the impression that I was not fully committed to my career, or that I was looking for someone to settle down and have babies with.  I didn't lie about it but I did sort of recoil at the suggestion that babies were desirable.  I always thought they were really cute, although I found that thing where someone I thought I knew suddenly thought her kid pooping in his diaper was so adorable that it was worth remarking on over a pizza lunch was pretty offputting.

 

I guess my point is, it's a phase maybe.

[gardenmom5]

I haven't seen any such posts.  My girls are childless - but they hope to have kids some day.  even 1ds and his gf (whom he hopes to marry in due time) have already talked about how many kids they want.  (she has a serious medical condition, so I don't know if that will be possible.)

 

I do have a niece, who when she was in her 20's said she'd never have kids.  she had a number of miscarriages before she had her dd at 40. and I know another woman who said she'd never have kids. . . .  she announced her pg by saying "he11 has frozen over, I'm pg".   she used IVF - and made sure people knew so there was no doubt her children were planned.  both said they'd never have kids a number of times before eventually having a child.

 

I think the proper response to such a post is to simply express how grateful you are for your children.   I personally think newborns are beautiful (I had five), and the best sounds in the world are the one's made by newborns. no other sound like that in the world.

[gardenmom5]

I'm Facebook friends with several childless-by-choice women from 20-40. Only one is obnoxious. She's my age (mid-30s), married, educated, and employed. She doesn't want kids, which is totally valid. I don't think anyone should choose to have kids if they don't actually want to be parents. Sometimes, though, she pushes it to make it seem like childfree is the best option for any intelligent woman, which I think is stupid. Raising children has its ups and downs. Have kids, don't have kids--that's up to you. Disparaging other people's reproductive choices is in poor taste, but disparaging children is worse.

 

(Says the woman with six children.)

 

when people push that hard, I'm always left with the impression they're trying to convince themselves. 

[Arcadia]

My single friends and relatives all loves kids. Besides it would be rather dumb for my friends to make these kind of comments on Facebook when their bosses have kids. Facebook keeps posts forever.

[abba12]

They are mostly photographers, dog trainers or horse trainers. I wonder if this is significant, that they are into animals more than into babies. They keep saying how they would rather have a dog or a horse or any other pet, than a child.

 

I think that's definitely part of it. My sister is in the horse industry and I hear a lot of it when I and my kids are around her and her friends. I don't want to offend anyone but there is a certain group of people who decide they wont have children but use animals as a substitute. My sisters dog is treated like a child, it's absurd. 

 

I have seen a lot of this going on, not in my circles but those of friends/family. You're childless? Fine, my best friend is childless, no problem. But saying that children shouldn't be allowed out in public, that having children lowers your intelligence, that they're snotty nosed horrors who require far too much work while simultaneously stating that stay at home mums do nothing all day (someone explain THAT to me). Keep it to yourself.

 

I remember as a teenager in certain groups it was 'cool' to declare you'd never have children. I was in a social group back on livejournal and someone put up a quiz, including a question on whether you'd have kids and something like 60% stated they would remain childless. Of course they were stupid teens, I rather wonder how many of them have gone on to have babies in the years since. 

 

I think it just makes them feel superior. I'll probably be flamed for this but one of the more common (though by no means universal) reasons for remaining childless is a type of selfishness. I don't mean it necessarily negatively, like I said my sister and best friend are "child-free", but they don't want their freedom restricted, they don't want the responsibilities, they don't want the work. These are the reasons childless people themselves tell me. And, honestly, those types of people are often more bent towards a desire for superiority and one-upmanship. 

 

As for the 'authenticity' thing, my sisters circle of friends take that to a certain extreme of 'I'm a B****. and wont apologise for it, love me or leave me" (Her quote, not mine). And I get the sentiment, she's not going to tip-toe around and be all politically correct. But, you know, sometimes you're not being 'authentic' and making a statement, you're just genuinely being a b****. It's like it's permission for them to say and do what they like regardless of how it affects other people. 

[TeacherZee]

I have not come across this in my fb feed and I have plenty of friends in their 30s. What I do come across is a lot of frustration at societies expectation that everyone should settle down and have children. Some of my friends are childless by choice, others due to infertility, and some because they haven't found anyone to have children with and they don't want to "go it alone", all of them find it frustrating that people question their choice (or lack of if they don't know about the infertility). 

 

I think those who are aggressively negative often feel that pressure and I will say that sometimes fb is difficult when you very much WANT children but can't have them. I find the excessive posting of pictures by some friends to be very difficult at times. The posting of how motherhood has completely fullfilled someone. How it is the best thing ever. It is hard. 

[Guest]

I haven't seen this, but it could be I don't know many people in that demographic. But among my nieces and nephews, I haven't seen this, although I have heard some say they are delaying having kids for travel or to pay off student loan debt.

 

I wasn't especially keen on kids before I had my own, although I kept it to myself. I'm still not one who has to hold everyone's babies.

 

Actually, while I love my own dog, I don't think much of other people's dogs. I think almost everybody's dog is too insane, ill-behaved, hairy, stinky and drooly. I have three friends with dogs I like. The rest - no.

[SporkUK]

I've seen this trend go from loud niche teen communities on livejournal to  mainstream 30somethings on Facebook. More guys posting odd cartoons comparing newborns to cats or guinea pigs and how awesome their pets are on my wall, but I cut out most of the high school/childhood people likely to be in the group to do so it's now a few sprinkled here and there. 

 

I actually had one ask why we do not have a cat and try to convince me that we *need* at least one. I just said it was a nice idea, and the kids did enjoy their hour at the cat cafe,  but our situation right now means it would be unfair on any cat and the 3 year old - and said 3 year old's health problems mean I have no desire for more body functions. The cat guy would not have it. I had to bite my tongue on the whole 'your flat smells so strongly of cat litter box that it makes me eye water so you're really bad advertising for this argument'". He really did not get how he was acting just like those he complains about. 

[PrincessMommy]

I haven't seen it on my FB feed because I have such a small sample of friends.. but I do know it exists.  My 24yr old dd is friends with a lot of people like this.  They are in the 20's and pretty self-centered on school, career or fun.   My daughter (the one who used to love, love love kids) has been sucked into that mentality.  She's not exactly rude about it, but she's also not afraid to speak her mind.  She says all her friends think that way.  And, she's my child who is the most easily swayed by "the group." If you KWIM.   Most of her friends aren't churched or no longer go to church. 

 

I'm hoping it's either a phase or that it's self-preservation... because she's not in a relationship. I guess it's better than being a desperate single girl who has baby fever, but still it does make me sad.

[Bluegoat]

I've seen this, though not among my friends on Facebook.  I find it really off-putting.  For whatever reason this group isn't like normal people who might not want kids, there seems to be a weird combination of selfishness on the one hand (they commonly state a reason for not wanting kids is so they can carry on living a consumerist lifestyle) while claiming that people with kids are ruining the planet with their selfish and base desire to procreate. 

 

I think that it seems to be related to the rise of the term "child-free" which I think is probably one of the most offensive things I hear regularly.  I started hearing it when I started to notice this weird group of people.  I always want to ask them if they are blessedly elder-free, or they live in a minority-free or poor-free neighbourhood.

 

ETA - I always notice too that this group seems completely unaware that a child-free lifestyle is very much enabled because our society has socialized the risk of not having children, so people who do have kids are taking it on for those who don't.  Which as a system has many good points, but it is IMO important not to lose sight of the fact that non-parents are dependent on others to have kids.

[Library Momma]

I've never really seen posts like this either but it sounds to me like one of those social joke bandwagons that people jump on.  Like mothers doing the happy dance when their kids to back to school or men complaining about the old "ball and chain."  Most people don't actually feel this way, at least not to the extreme presented.  If they are in the "club" though they feel that somehow they have to join in with the mockery. I don't think it deserves more than an eye roll.

[cera2]

I have seen this and I think that in a lot of cases it is women who are trying to convince themselves they are making the right choice (or that the choice that has been made for them is right).  

 

Certainly not all, but many of my mid to late 30's friends who are vehemently opposed to children are also single and not likely to have the option of kids in the context of a stable marriage/relationship before they are too old to do so.  

 

 

[Scarlett]

It this a trend? My FB is full of young women in their 30s who are married / in relationships, but who seemingly can't live without posting a variation of "I hate kids, I will neve have them" status updates every other week. And those who just had kids, admit that those kids were an oops and they like totally ruined their lives. And puppies are way better. And newborn babies are ugly. Which I think that physically yes, they are scrunched up and red and what not, but they are so *new* and such a miracle (and I'm not even religious), that they are beautiful because of that, and it doesn't matter that they are all red and wrinkly.

 

And then my kids had a visiting martial arts instructor who told them that they were "energy sucking parasites" and of course it wasn't his only joke, and everybody laughed and the kids knew he was joking, and yet my 8 year old came over afterwards and wanted me to make sure she wasn't an energy sucking parasite. And even my 11 year old was a bit put off for a few seconds.

 

But what it is a badge of honour, it seems, to declare that a baby ruined one's life, when the new mom is 32, in a stable relationship, with so much family support she doesn't even need to see her baby much?

 

So this is the newest thing being posted, and maybe I'm overly sensitive and I can't see how this is funny. But maybe it is funny. Is it funny? Why is it funny? https://www.facebook.com/buzzfeedmatt/videos/938417086219169/

I don't think that video is funny at all.

 

I don't have people in my life who act that way about kids. If I did and they were close friends or family I would tell them they were hurting my feelings...if they were just associates of some kind I would unfriend or unfollow.

 

Who needs that negative crap in their life.

[SKL]

Nobody has been dumb enough to put such a post on my facebook feed.  :P

 

When I was 12, my family of 8 moved next to a couple who had vowed to never have kids.  The husband said he was one of 6 kids and he hated it.  I guess he must have been thrilled to see us moving in.  :P  My kid brother used to run into their garden to escape when he was being naughty.  I could see why they might think kids are unexciting.

 

At first, our feeling about that couple was "sad, selfish."  Once we got a chance to observe them in action, we thought maybe they weren't a real couple at all, i.e., the husband acted steretypically flamboyant iykwim.  Who knows ....

 

I have many childless friends IRL.  Generally they will express a sentiment of not missing anything and of appreciating their freedom to do what they please as adults.  (I have to admit, there are times when I wish I didn't have to get up early for my kids etc.)  Generally they would not be so crass as to diss my kids or my parenthood.

[luuknam]

I think that it seems to be related to the rise of the term "child-free" which I think is probably one of the most offensive things I hear regularly.

 

I've been aware of the term 'child-free' for at least a decade, I think, and it's my understanding that it exists because 'childless' was taken to be offensive as in "being less for not having children", both by those who don't have kids by choice and those who can't.

 

I don't know a good term. Just wanted to throw that in.

 

I went through a "never!" phase when I was a kid/teen (well, it lasted probably at least a decade, so 'phase' may not be the right word). The difference of course is that people in their late 20s or 30s are not the same as tweens. I still think newborns are ugly, even though I had 2 (especially when they're *very* new... please, can't you wait a day or two before taking a picture and showing it off to random acquaintances)?

[PrincessMommy]

I think another issue is that the media makes it look easy to have kids well into your  30s and early 40s.  What those public figures, who are having babies in their 40s, are not saying is that it often takes help from doctors and/or surrogates to have kids at that age.   On one hand it is their private business, and I respect that.  But OTOH, it is being a bit deceptive with the public when you are a public figure.

 

I think it leads young people into a false sense that they can play and do what they want until they're into their 30s.   I have friends who waited until their career was established before starting a family and it was hard.  Some are childless and deeply regret their decisions. 

 

[DawnM]

I had a lot of stupid ideas before I had my own kids.

[MercyA]

I had a lot of stupid ideas before I had my own kids.

 

Didn't we all!  :blush:

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 2, 2015 by ^ 022

[SparklyUnicorn]

I was never having kids (like in the State Farm commercial).  I was never getting married either. 

 

Then again, different strokes for different folks. I haven't encountered that myself though.

 

 

[SKL]

Come to think of it, I do have one acquaintance who is married and childless by choice and kinda crass about kids being a waste of time and money.  Then again, she is crass and worse about a lot of things.  We visited her when my kids were tots and she was pretty cold toward us.  Thankfully my kids didn't touch any of her breakables which she kept within their reach at all times, didn't pee at the wrong time/place or make unpleasant noises or messes or fall down her treacherous steps.  :P  I'm super glad for all the kids in the world that she isn't their mom.  :)

[mamiof5]

I am not on Facebook, but I have heard of this and it just bugs me. I know we all have different ideas and mature as we grow, but still, comparing a child to an animal just crosses the line for me. A human being, at any stage in life, should not be compared to an animal, and likewise, an animal shouldn't be treated as a human being. I have nothing against animals, and would never be OK with animal abuse...but referring to them as people? No, just no.

[MercyA]

I think that's definitely part of it. My sister is in the horse industry and I hear a lot of it when I and my kids are around her and her friends. I don't want to offend anyone but there is a certain group of people who decide they wont have children but use animals as a substitute. My sisters dog is treated like a child, it's absurd. 

 

I was married for over ten years before having children, due at first to choice and later to infertility, and yes, I treated my dog like my child. I wouldn't say it was absurd so much as a natural outlet for maternal urges. I don't want to seem argumentative; obviously dogs aren't people. However, even among wild and domesticated animals, we see females (and sometimes males) mothering animals of other species. For example: dogs with squirrels, here and

; dogs with pigs, here and here; a

 with a kitten; a gorilla with a kitten; a lioness with an oryx. The mothering instinct is a powerful thing. My feelings weren't less real, or somehow invalid, because he was a dog and not human. I'm not offended, but wanted to share my perspective.  :)

[HRAAB]

My dh works with a couple of people who are rather vocal about their dislike of children including, believe it or not, their own. The man mentions how the kids ruined his perfect life, and his happiest day was dropping his dd off at college making it plain that was the end of his responsibility. I don't think his wife shares his feeling, thankfully. That situation really saddens me because both their children are adopted.

 

The other woman musty last week told people after a meeting that she doesn't like kids, doesn't like her own children and they don't like her, and after they turn 18 they will go their own way and won't have anything to do with each other which is fine by her. Her children are 14 and 16.

 

Of course that's better than the man who suggested 'flushing babies down the toilet while their bones are still soft'. I kid you not.

 

Do they really mean it, deep in the recesses of their soul? I hope not.

 

I didn't want any children until I had my first at 29 and then ended up with 5, peach one very much wanted. That's why I don't put too much weight on my 24 yr old dd who says the same things. She likes children and is an awesome aunt to her two nieces. If she doesn't have children, that's fine, too.

 

But those people who are down right nasty about children, I don't have time for that. They would be quickly unfriended.

[Guest]

I got a good chuckle out of that video.

 

You know what's sad? Student loan debt.

 

 

:laugh:

 

I know a lot of people like this. They are not (ever!) actually mean to--or even dismissive of-- kids irl. They are incredibly kind, actually. More kind ime than the "I love kids but they need to learn OBEDIENCE (or whatever)" crowd.

 

The instructor that insulted all your kids, OP, is a jerk and unprofessional.

 

It's just one of a thousand strains of jokes that not everyone is going to think is funny. nbd. Some people want a whole bunch of kids and feel VERY STRONGLY that's the right way to live and some people want zero kids and feel VERY STRONGLY that's the right way to live. We have to deal with (often by ignoring) both camps and just be grateful that almost everyone falls demographically between them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

I think it leads young people into a false sense that they can play and do what they want until they're into their 30s.   I have friends who waited until their career was established before starting a family and it was hard.  Some are childless and deeply regret their decisions. 

 

But this cuts all ways, ykwim?

 

Lots of people who are not childless deeply regret their earlier life decisions.

 

So basically the only logically compassionate thing to do is just trust that the "mistakes" that other people make, will work out to some degree in their lives just as much as our own mistakes work out.

[Guest]

 

 

My response to statements like that?  When we were in our 20's, one cousin said to me, "I don't ever want kids".  My reply was, "Then you shouldn't ever have any, because it's hard enough when you actually WANT them - I can't imagine how hard it would be if you didn't want them and had one."  She looked at me slightly stunned, but I didn't care.  And she never had kids either.  She's in her 50's now, worked all her life.  A pharmacist. 

 

  ;)  

 

Sounds like she knew what was best for her (save, perhaps sharing with you) and it worked out well.

[38carrots]

Maybe it is true that early thirties are the new early twenties and the social media allows for this kind of "authenticity" to bloom quickly into little subcultures.

 

It doesn't bother me if teens or those in their twenties talk like this, but I sort of feel that thirties is the age of more or less maturity. But it isn't?

 

My FB is not for close friends, it is more for keeping in touch with people I have to be in touch in order to coordinate my kids' activities, so there's no point in unfriending. Or commenting. But I wish I simply didn't know this about the young women in the industry who are role models for my daughters (based on their other qualities.) Immaturity is the  new authenticity? Yikes.

[lllll]

nm

Edited December 2, 2015 by ^ 022

[6packofun]

I know a few, one in particular, who are like this.  The one is a friend from high school and loved her single life, got married at 40 or so and now LOVES being childless.  Which is totally OK; knowing her personality I don't necessarily think she's great mom material anyway.  BUT. The regular links to studies about how happier, better (in whatever way the study is skewed to show "better") childless couples are gets old pretty fast.  LOL  I get the feeling that it's like someone here said, that she's trying to convince herself that it's going to be true in the long run--no regrets!!-- as she now enters her mid-40s and the choice to be a biological mom is nearing its end. 

 

On the other hand, I know several very young (some teen), single moms who praise how much they LOVE not having their baby's daddy (or any guy) in their lives...oh, it's so free and awesome!  AND, they also seem to know everything that there is about parenting and call out other parents' mistakes, especially from the news, those idiots!!  LOL  Yes, I do believe it's a weird, sad kind of psychological compensation--in ALL these cases.

[Mimm]

Ages ago when I was first having kids I was on this mommy forum and there was this rabidly anti-child person hanging out. On a mommy forum. I think she was mostly there to troll but she seemed to really hate babies and parents and so on. She resented coworkers for getting maternity leave just because she chose to "breed" and argued that children under around 12 I think shouldn't be allowed in public except specifically child focused places like Chuck E Cheese. In her view, all children misbehaved or had the potential to misbehave and no one who didn't choose to create the child should be subjected to being around that. She was pretty nasty toward parents, or as she liked to call us, breeders.

 

So yeah, that was my first encounter with child free by choice people. I do think some people are outspoken in their choice not to have children in a reaction against a lot of familial and societal pressure to have kids. It ranges from acting like children are necessary and there's something a bit wrong with you if you choose not to have one, to treating women like that's their primary function in life (patriarchy movement). I can understand pushing back against that attitude. I know my life would be a nightmare to some women. Housework, school work, changing diapers, wiping noses, reading the same kids books over and over and over, chauffeuring them around all over the place. My life kind of revolves around them. I'm happy with that for now, but I totally understand not being. I understand if a whoops baby were to come along and you weren't prepared for the selflessness that is mothering, especially at first. But at the same time, once the child is here, ideally you do what you can to take care of your emotional health in such a way that you are able to be the best parent you can be to your child.

 

And even if a person chooses never to have children of their own, there's still no reason to be nasty about it. It is possible to make decisions for your life without attacking people who make different decisions. ;) And children are still human beings deserving of consideration they aren't yet capable of extending to everyone else.

[Janie Grace]

Honestly, I would think that someone who has to be so vocal about their choice is subconsciously conflicted about it. Deep down, they feel guilt, regret or uncertainty. That's my best guess. 
 

The reason is this -- human beings don't feel the need to go around slamming alternate choice if they are peaceful about their own. I am not homeschooling this year. I felt it was the best choice for our family for now. I don't ever post about it -- not because I'm ashamed,  just because it's... settled. I have nothing to prove, and I have friends with various personal experiences. I am happy that everyone is happy with their own life and choices. So why would I "go off" about how I am SO GLAD I'm not homeschooling and detail all the hard/bad things about it (and we all know there are plenty)? If I were to do that, it would indicate that I'm not okay with myself and have to prove my position to myself and others. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" kind of thing.

 

That's my armchair psychology anyway.