PollyOR Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I need to talk with someone! Three out of six family members have been treated for depression, so I should be an expert, right? But, my 17yo is throwing me for a loop. I had a long post but I'll try to stick to the one issue which is blowing my mind. Why does she say shocking stuff? She says she wants me to know who she is. I think she IS trying to shock me, but at the same time I think it is bigger than that. My guess is she shares stuff she knows I dislike because she wants me to loathe her like she loathes herself. I don't want to repeat what she said tonight, but if you are brave enough, you can search for the explicit lyrics to her favorite song "Tapout" by Rich Gang. (Sorry for those who like it but my daughter knows me and knows I would find it offensive) I would appreciate any feedback. This is my kid who attended a religion class every morning before school for three years, rarely missed school, had a 3.8 GPA, and was a cheerleader. Now she attends school for a few hours each week, does NO school work, has dropped cheer, and has had suicidal thoughts for several months. The psychiatrist has her on a mood stabilizer while we are waiting for the anti-depressant to start working (7-9 weeks). He recommended we take her to the hospital, but she wanted to try the mood stabilizer first. I'll admit that I'm weary and at times angry which then leads to guilt. It feels like a roller coaster ride. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiof5 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I am so sorry!! Unfortunately I have no feedback, but will pray for you and your daughter. Googled the song...yikes!!!! Don't understand how could anyone like that :(. No offense to your dd, just shocked by the lyrics. Will pray for things to get better! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom@shiloh Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 No advice, just a hug and prayers for you and your dd. It sounds like you're doing the right thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joyofsixreboot Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I am so sorry. My own kids have issues relating to mental health but not suicidal. I would say go with your gut. I wouldn't worry about her wanting to shock you but if you feel hospitalization is necessary listen to the voice in your head. Do you share with the psychiatrist too? Does the doctor take your concerns seriously? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I need to talk with someone! Three out of six family members have been treated for depression, so I should be an expert, right? But, my 17yo is throwing me for a loop. I had a long post but I'll try to stick to the one issue which is blowing my mind. Why does she say shocking stuff? She says she wants me to know who she is. I think she IS trying to shock me, but at the same time I think it is bigger than that. My guess is she shares stuff she knows I dislike because she wants me to loathe her like she loathes herself. I don't want to repeat what she said tonight, but if you are brave enough, you can search for the explicit lyrics to her favorite song "Tapout" by Rich Gang. (Sorry for those who like it but my daughter knows me and knows I would find it offensive) I would appreciate any feedback. This is my kid who attended a religion class every morning before school for three years, rarely missed school, had a 3.8 GPA, and was a cheerleader. Now she attends school for a few hours each week, does NO school work, has dropped cheer, and has had suicidal thoughts for several months. The psychiatrist has her on a mood stabilizer while we are waiting for the anti-depressant to start working (7-9 weeks). He recommended we take her to the hospital, but she wanted to try the mood stabilizer first. I'll admit that I'm weary and at times angry which then leads to guilt. It feels like a roller coaster ride. Holy cow, wish I hadn't read those (but I am not upset about it.) I am very sorry you are dealing with this. Does she also have a psychologist who she trusts and who will work with her? A psychiatrist is good for meds, but she really needs a non-judgemental person to listen and help her process how to deal with her issues. A good psychologist is worth their weight in gold. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 No matter how much you hate that song, don't shut her down at all for sharing it with you. You want her to know she can share ANYTHING without being judged. Once the meds kick in, she may well move on to nicer songs (one hopes) but for now better to know what is going on in her head (as much as possible) than let her close up, not share, and perhaps do something dire in her misery. Depression s*cks! My son, when at his lowest with depression (and other problems) opens up with Finnish Heavy Death Metal. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Wait, a psychiatrist recommended you take your suicidal daughter to the hospital but you didn't because your daughter didn't want to? Am I reading this correctly? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justasque Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 No matter how much you hate that song, don't shut her down at all for sharing it with you. You want her to know she can share ANYTHING without being judged. This. Focus on asking yourself, "What is the feeling she is trying to communicate"? "Wow, that's a pretty intense song. Is it helping you get out some anger? Or do you like the power of it? Does listening to it help you feel a bit better?" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I agree that she needs more than a psychiatrist. She needs someone to talk to, right away, maybe multiple times a week. When she tells you those things, she's asking for you to help her sort out those horrible feelings, and you can't do it. She needs someone objective, someone who won't be pushed away by the terrible thoughts in her head. (I'm not saying you'll be pushed away, but subconsciously she's testing you--your love for her, your ability to be there for her, etc.--with what she's saying.) You need to get her to a therapist immediately. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: to you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 That is a pretty aggressive illness. I know you know this, so I am just posting as a reminder because when it comes to our own kids, we can forget. Depression is an ILLNESS. It is like cancer, heart disease, diabetes. Some people can managed with dietary or lifestyle changes and minimum Rx or hospitalization. That is not due to their strength, intelligence, "willingness", "motivation", self-worth, or will power. It is dictated by the aggression of the disease. Cancer metastasizes according to many factors: type, genetics, environmental co-factors, immune response, etc. Depression is the same way; the strength of it is related to the illness itself. Your dd has a moderate to severe case; her level of care needs to reflect that. The "shock value" component is a combination of "teen" and a symptom of her disease. It seems a bit younger, developmentally, than a near adult when often teens are outgrowing the need to shock parents. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I'm wonder if the meds are kicking in so that she's more able to share what's on her mind. That happened with my dd was treated for depression. She also said a lot of really shocking things, things she knows I wouldn't approve of or feel comfortable with. Really good things came out, too, like a lot of I-love-you's. My friend whose dd recently started an SSRI had the same experience. It's like they open up. Is this a new thing for your daughter since starting the meds? I'm not familiar with the song you're referring to, but it reminds me of a situation with my friend's dd who is the same age. She didn't say the dark lyrics of a song but wrote them on a secret social media account she had online. The police in our town monitor social media and came to my friend's home to tell her they thought her daughter was suicidal. A mental health intervention team was brought in and her dd agreed to go to the hospital. It was the best thing ever and probably saved her dd's life, because no one--not even her dd's therapist--was aware of how badly her dd needed help. She was hospitalized for a couple of weeks and then went into a day program for a couple of weeks after that. She has found things to do that are very therapeutic for her and she's doing very well now. Teens use songs to express themselves and they can be a cry for help. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiramisu Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Just thinking, when the psychiatrist first started treating dd for depression, she was in weekly therapy and still had us come back every week. Even though she was never suspected of being suicidal and hospitalization was never mentioned, the monitoring when starting meds was very intensive with dd seeing two mental health professionals each week. During that time, I never left dd alone at home and made sure I checked on her often. I think in your case, if you decide to not hospitalize, she really needs to be carefully monitored. There is an increased risk of suicide in the first several weeks after starting an antidepressant, and I don't know how that risk changes with a mood stabilizer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim in Appalachia Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Ok, I'm in this right now too. My dd17 has been rough. We have done/are doing the medication/counseling thing. i don't want to share her details online, but I wanted to share how I've been handling it. Breathe. When your dd says or does something, don't react. She's needs support, love, understanding. There will be days that you want to get in her face and tell her to just stop, to get a grip and start acting/doing the right thing. You need to not do that. And if you do, you will need to apologize. I'm not saying you never correct or direct, I'm saying you have to wait for the right time, the correct frame of mind. You need to keep working on your relationship with her. Keep it as open as you can. Teen age years can be rough, teen age hormones and not yet complete brain development thrown together with depression and anxiety is just horrible. Remember that this time is temporary. You need to see her through so that you can get to the other side. :grouphug: There's so much I could share, but I really don't want to vent about my dd. Do take care of yourself. Do things to help with the stress. ETA: When I say this time is temporary, I mean the teen age years. Depression and anxiety can be a life long problem. I don't want to make it sound like I think in a few years it will go away. Depression is a chronic illness, where as the teenager part passes. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckles Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I'm walking through this right now with my 14 year old. I feel for you. It's so hard. :grouphug: :grouphug: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I don't mean to be rude (I have a child who is treated for depression, so I get it), but am I really the only person who is very alarmed by the fact that a psychiatrist recommended a trip to the hospital because the girl is having suicidal thoughts and this was not done?? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 I don't mean to be rude (I have a child who is treated for depression, so I get it), but am I really the only person who is very alarmed by the fact that a psychiatrist recommended a trip to the hospital because the girl is having suicidal thoughts and this was not done?? Tara, I understand your concern. Absolutely. The psychiatrist gave us his primary recommendation (trip to the ER) and then gave us the option of trying a mood stabilizer. The three of us (parents and child) met with the psychiatrist and he encouraged us to make the decision as a family. I'll be honest, if the decision had been up to me solely, I would have taken her to the hospital. The doctor has previously worked as a an emergency room psychiatrist and was able to give us information about what would happen if we took her to the ER. Based on that information, we made the decision to try the mood stabilizer. It was a very hard choice to make. Both DH and her two older sisters have been treated for depression and yet, I have been completely unprepared for this. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted November 11, 2015 Author Share Posted November 11, 2015 I want to thank everyone for the support and advice! It means the world to me! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minerva Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Just sending hugs to all you mamas helping your kids through this. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILiveInFlipFlops Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 I don't mean to be rude (I have a child who is treated for depression, so I get it), but am I really the only person who is very alarmed by the fact that a psychiatrist recommended a trip to the hospital because the girl is having suicidal thoughts and this was not done?? I can only speak for myself, but I assumed intelligent, engaged parents would have good reasons for making the decision they did. It sounded to me like there was plenty more to the story than Polly was telling (in the interest of privacy and/or brevity), so I figured the psych would let them know whether their choice was workable or not. Polly's later post bears that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freckles Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Deleted for privacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Are there any outpatient, intensive options available? As someone who has been depressed but not suicidal, sometimes I've used "shock value" statements to express just how badly I need someone to help me. DH is my safe person. Maybe you are DD's. I can't imagine how hard it is to hear as a mom. Good luck. :grouphug: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Wait, a psychiatrist recommended you take your suicidal daughter to the hospital but you didn't because your daughter didn't want to? Am I reading this correctly? Honestly, they don't do much in a regular hospital. It's not necessarily the best place for someone in that situation. BTDT (not me, but several family members). Having family keeping an eye on someone and involved is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Honestly, they don't do much in a regular hospital. Perhaps not, but my mother is a psychiatric nurse, and her facility regularly receives patients straight from the ER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Perhaps not, but my mother is a psychiatric nurse, and her facility regularly receives patients straight from the ER. I went to the ER myself once and it was probably one of the worst experiences I've ever had with "professionals". I would have to be very desperate to want to put my kid through that. Essentially what they do is have you sit somewhere. At most they stabilize. They don't really treat. And definitely they aren't about long term. If family is available to help and be with someone, that is probably going to be even better than what you'd get in a hospital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PollyOR Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 I want to give an update. In my opinion, DD has improved. I'm so relieved! Just before Thanksgiving Day she told me that she actually felt better. Is she happy? I can't say she is, but life is better than it was just a few short weeks ago. So, it really did take 7-9 weeks for the antidepressant to work. That's a long time to know your child is thinking about suicide on a daily basis. She still has times when she feels bad... especially before bed. She still struggles with making herself eat. And, she's learning that not taking your medication consistently can cause you to have a bad day. That is a hard lesson that we worked on just yesterday. DD attends weekly counseling in addition to taking two medications. The mood stabilizer bought us time while we were waiting for the anti-depressant to start working. Pretty sure it saved her life. Now we have time for the therapist to help DD learn skills to help her fight the depression. Thankfully, she has stopped saying things I found shocking. During therapy I shared with the therapist something DD said, and DD was so embarrassed. She says she didn't remember saying that. And, she isn't nearly as angry as she was. In fact, she is constantly reminding me how things don't really matter and I shouldn't get upset about them. She doesn't want to attend public school anymore. Thoughts of trying to catch up in her classes bring on bouts of anxiety. As parents we have mixed feelings, but we are focused on DD healing rather than stuffing her back into the mold. Life will never be the same for her, but it is so nice to see my girl coming back. :) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGrief Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Polly, I missed this when you originally posted. I'm glad to hear she is better right now. I've been through this with my oldest, who is now 20, and my 73 yo mother, who has been severely impaired by mental illness for years. I just wanted to address the part about the hospitalization. My experience is that while sometimes the hospitalization becomes necessary, the hospitalization experience can create new problems/traumas, and sometimes it is nothing but a warehouse. Serious mistakes can be made as far as medications by providers who do not have a history with a specific patient, and vulnerable adults/teens, especially those without knowledgeable advocates who are PRESENT, can be subject to abuse. I get quite annoyed with the whole "just get help" advice given to those with depression by well-meaning people. Quality "help" is extremely hard to come by. Treatment is very, very complicated. Edited December 12, 2015 by Gr8lander 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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