Unbelievable Grandparent Comment

[Hobbes]

ummmm....I don't think it was that. It was assuming all homeschoolers are afraid of the people you mentioned.

This. Pretty big assumptions to make about the fears, opinions, and motivations of homeschoolers in general.

[lea_lpz]

How did this thread go off on this tangent!?!

[MomOfABunch]

Actually, the underlying quetion for the OP would be "Why would you reject high school for social/academic reasons, but send them to community college to take one class for fun."

This year would be one class for fun, to ease into CC classes. Next year, he'll take math, possibly a lab science. I didn't think Calc would make a great first CC class.

 

This thread has taken an interesting turn....

 

The grandparent comment is an example of the grandparents ongoing assumption that he is not going to public HS solely because of social issues. And that because he hasn't gone to public HS, he is therefore socially inept or something and he will be heading off to CC totally unprepared and just waiting to be victimized...due to lack of socialization. As we all know, that's simply not it.

 

Someone said this is a different twist of the ongoing socialization debate. It is. The grandparents seem to think public education is necessary for proper socialization. That's the issue right there. Whatever your stance on public education is, I think we all can agree that public education is not necessary for proper socialization! This attitude that I'm getting from the grandparents is what is so frustrating.

[lea_lpz]

Tsuga--- do you homeschool?

 

This site is for people who homeschool, are interested in homeschooling and want to learn more, or used to homeschool and used this board for support and still enjoy checking in with boardie friends. It's more specifically geared towards families inspired by The Well Trained Mind book by Bauer to classically educate at home or incorporate some of the ideas in their school. Does this fit you?

 

Also, the OP posted about her high school age homeschooled son taking some courses at community college and her family member who has always been discouraging about homeschooling making a negative comment and wanting to get some support from other homeschoolers. I am not sure how your comments are supportive or really relate to OP's post.

 

I am not sure if your comments are based on real homeschool famines you know who have said they homeschool to keep their kids away from "undesirable" high school kids or assumptions you've made about why people homeschool. Although a lot of homeschooling pioneers were maybe Conservative Christians who might have had this view (although plenty didn't) the homeschool movement today is quite diverse. Many factors go into the decision to homeschool, and families are often motivated to homeschool for many different reasons that aren't religiously motivated or to be off the grid (few do that).

 

For example, we are Christian, and I do enjoy having time to teach Bible and character. We use secular and non secular materials. But we homeschool because-----

1) our assigned public school is not good

2) I can't afford private school for 5 kids

3) we tried it for a year and enjoyed the freedom it offered

4) I get to tailor my kids education to their learning styles, ability and interest

5) I think with my bachelors from Berkeley, my masters in education and my student ratio of 1:2 I have to be "capable enough" (I don't think my degrees are necessary to homeschool though)----not to toot my own horn but right now I think it is the best educational option for our family ;)

 

Notice I don't list sheltering my kids or brainwashing them into my beliefs.

 

We belong to a secular homeschool group were they around a diverse group of families---unschoolers, classical families, traditional school model, online k-12, Jewish families, non-religiously affiliated, Mormons, Christians, Catholics and everything in between. Why? So they can be around lots of different people :)

 

My kids are in k & 3rd. I can't with any certainty say if we'll be homeschooling in high school or what it will look like if we do continue. I hope we will be but that will be contingent on a lot of factors----finances, is it still the best educational option for my kids, what their academic and vocational goals, their personality, their preferences (yes, I would consider this)., etc.

 

I think homeschooling in high school could offer a lot of opportunities they won't get in a traditional high school. I don't know whether they will be in a co-op, take some classes at a CC, start working towards earning some credit in a vocational school, volunteer or work part time or maybe go to a public or private high school, but it will involve them being in their community, being answerable to another authority figure besides me and making some choices about their education and gaining some independence.

[Slache]

Tsuga--- do you homeschool?

 

This site is for people who homeschool, are interested in homeschooling and want to learn more, or used to homeschool and used this board for support and still enjoy checking in with boardie friends. It's more specifically geared towards families inspired by The Well Trained Mind book by Bauer to classically educate at home or incorporate some of the ideas in their school. Does this fit you?

 

She after schools and I'm glad she's here. She's helped me out a lot with family and parenting stuff. She's been able to make sense of things I couldn't understand.

[Tsuga]

ummmm....I don't think it was that. It was assuming all homeschoolers are afraid of the people you mentioned.

 

I don't think you guys are reading what I wrote.

 

The OP herself said that social reasons were one reason she homeschooled.

 

Now, she sends her kids to CCs so clearly, she has not problems with our extremely diverse society.

 

So my question is, if someone has no problem with a diverse adult society, where's the problem with public schools?

 

I don't see how this is a complicated question. So you don't have a problem with the society in community college. Why a problem with high schools? Granted, both have pluses and minuses, but I think the question is a valid question.

 

I don't think the grandparent was foolish. To the grandparent, the same kids who are in public schools are in community colleges. It's the same people. So why CC and not public school?

 

 

 

 

It's more specifically geared towards families inspired by The Well Trained Mind book by Bauer to classically educate at home or incorporate some of the ideas in their school. Does this fit you?

 

Yes, it does. I bought the book when my first was a wee baby and I still dreamed of homeschooling--i.e. before I knew the girl she'd grow to be. I use the book to guide my overall after schooling curriculum as well as to help me evaluate the schools that my kids attend. Also, I studied philosophy and classics so I have a real affinity for this type of home education.

 

I don't homeschool for a number of reasons, first and foremost, that my little riffraff actually love public school and are far too extraverted to be effectively educated at home. You really have to have a child of this level of extraversion and energy to know what I mean, and let me just say if your child did not literally run away to go to school, then you probably don't have one of them.

 

I've been very lucky in that we live in a wonderful area where kids still get recess, still have music, art, library, and PE in schools, where there are trees and loving teachers and so on. The basic curriculum fits the spine of WTM, with a bit more science and a bit less history. So my kids go to their lovely schools and then we after school with reading, grammar, history with mom through stories, and foreign language for the one who isn't in immersion, and so on.

 

I was lucky my kids loved school because when my husband left, I was in a position to continue working. So now returning to homeschooling is not an option though I do dream that if my children don't get into the programs they want in high school they will view homeschooling as a real possibility, which is another reason I stay on this board.

 

Believe it or not, I actually really support the choice to homeschool and myself begged to be homeschooled but my mom was concerned I couldn't have managed myself (she was right--we didn't have resources for tutors or anything and I benefited from the social support network in the public school, in spite of the fact that it was far from perfect).

 

What I do NOT support is ridicule of children in the public schools, slights at public school kids, teachers and administrators, and basically snubbing of people who for whatever reason choose to participate in the system. 

 

I do NOT agree with the premise that the public schools are something to protect kids from in general, though i would not hesitate to pull my kid from a school in which administrators were not doing their job.

[Tsuga]

She after schools and I'm glad she's here. She's helped me out a lot with family and parenting stuff. She's been able to make sense of things I couldn't understand.

 

Hey, backatcha, Slache. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

These forums have never existed solely for homeschoolers. The mission used to be stated in the user agreement or somewhere; I don't know if it still is. Something about "for those who value classical education," which cuts a pretty wide swath.

[mamiof5]

I really think that this highlights the low opinion you have of public school students.

 

See, about half of my family are veterans.

 

But also, my neighbor teaches honors English at a high school.

 

I have a high opinion of vets and have the opportunity to serve them daily.

 

But you will see me and my kids in public schools all. Day. Long.

 

You guys don't get it.

 

I'm not the one having my children avoid anybody.

 

Not the kids in the IB program.

 

Not the kids in the alternative classes.

 

Not the vets.

 

Not the disabled.

 

Not the kids who've been moved from place to place with a military family and who are under stress--indeed that IS my family.

 

I'm not the one who is not in the CC and public primary schools every day because I'm concerned about what my kids will face. I'm here. I'm all in.

 

No, I'm here and I deal with people and see them (though I am too sensitive to work on student services).

 

What I hear from many homeschoolers regularly is how crappy our schools are, how crappy the society is.

 

But community college, this is where you can send your child at 14-18 and somehow, at the underfunded CC, that's okay. Where instructors earn less than the teachers in the primary schools. LOL!

 

THAT is the disconnect.

 

My whole life is serving these populations, rich and poor.

 

And I don't get why the same people who are worried about their kids being exposed to bad behavior in HS are so confident it cannot happen at CC.

 

Being a vet doesn't make you nice. Neither does being a single mom.

 

Sexual assault happens as do drugs.

 

People are so stuck on this idea that HS is the worst possible place for a kid because some people have negative experiences and all anyone can say is how community college is different.

 

I don't think everyone needs high school socialization but I also don't get the fear.

 

I'm not afraid of high school so yeah, it blows my mind that someone would fear high schoolers and not ex-cons.

 

You see... I don't get it because I don't get the fear. Period.

 

To me, it's like... Once you are afraid of one state institution, why not all of them?

 

Fear popular girls? Why not also hide from single moms? Neither of those groups bother me so to me I don't get what the distinguishing factor is.

 

Fear football bullies? Why not fear ex cons?

 

Fear rude hallway glances but not fear someone dealing drugs?

 

Fear anonymity in crowded hallways but not... Anonymity in crowded hallways?

 

It's not that vets are scary to me. Hah! No! It's that neither are cheerleaders or cliques or football players or goths or bad French teachers. To me, if a cheerleader making a snide remark is scary, why isn't a recovering addict scary? I don't get the distinction because I hang out with everyone.

 

What are you afraid of in high school, if not other people?

 

And if it is other people, why are CC students exempt?

 

And if you're not afraid... Well... Anxious? Uncomfortable? What is the social aspect of homeschooling, if not a worry that something could happen in HS?

 

I think the fear is so obvious to you all that you cannot imagine I don't share it. But I don't. I feel like people on this thread are basically saying, "well sure colleges have sexual assault and people with mental health issues and drugs but there are no popular kids!"

 

Because you know. A cheerleader with a snide remark is the worst thing that could happen to a kid. Much worse than (and yes this happens) someone walking down the hall flipping out over financial aid and upturning tables. How dare I compare a vet with PTSD to someone as horrible as a public schooler!

 

That vet was almost certainly a public schooler you know. It is the same person.

 

School or Unschool how you want. But if you tell me Ps is scary and CC is not then I'm going to try to figure out what is scary in one and not the other.

 

All those kids you want to avoid in PS. They don't disappear when they graduate. Do you have to deal with them? No. But you might of you come to CC.

Not sure why you have the perception that I am trying hard for my kids to "avoid" someone? Yes, maybe some homeschool for those reasons, but not everyone does. If I tell you that probably my main reasons for homeschooling is because I miss my kids terribly, don't want them in a school all day, I want to be their primary educator and have our faith as the center of our homeschool...what does that have to do with "avoiding" others? I am glad public school works for you, as I am glad it doesn't work for us. You decide what is the best education for your kids and I decide for mine. I respect your choice and you respect mine. Please don't blame us all for not wanting to send our kids to school, I would never blame you for not homeschooling your kids. I can turn the question around...why are you OK sending your kids to school instead of homeschooling like I do? What do you have against homeschooling kids? Why do you choose to have your kids hanging out with the other public school kids but not with ours? Why are you trying to avoid homeschooled kids? The fact that you don't homeschool shows me the poor opinion you have of us. These are not my thoughts at all, just trying to show how I can turn the table and also word it the other way around. As I said before, I respect your schooling choices, and don't question it...please don't question mine (not mine directly, but as a homeschooling mom)

[Plink]

You know, I really think that I am not expressing myself well on this thread.

 

So let me state clearly that the reason I don't think that I've insulted anybody is that I don't think being compared to a public school student is an insult.

 

I don't think it's insulting to be compared to a single mom because I WAS A SINGLE MOM.

 

I don't think it's insulting to be compared to an ex-con because MY DAD WAS CONVICTED OF A FELONY AND SERVED TIME. And he reformed. And he has a great heart. And we have incredible students who are ex-cons.

 

I don't think it's insulting to be compared to public school kids because THOSE ARE MY KIDS.

 

I don't think it's insulting to be compared to a vet because THAT IS MY FAMILY.

 

It's people on this thread who are assuming negative things about all the groups I've mentioned. I haven't put value on it except to say, I don't see how someone can say that if you believe your child will be harmed in public school due to social factors, I cannot understand how being around the exact same population, but older and narrowed down to weed out everyone who is rich* and/or talented enough to go straight to a four-year college, would be any better.

 

Does that make sense?

 

*Let's just say first world rich--certainly, everyone who is paying anything for a four-year is working extremely hard and has more money than many people have. I realize we are not talking 1%ers who are scraping by to send their kid to Colorado State or something.

[Hobbes]

.

[Plink]

(Ugh. Quote fail. Sorry!)

 

My concern was comparing people with normal life circumstances to convicted criminals. I don't care about where any of those people were educated.

 

Perhaps the disconnect in this entire conversation is that you believe CC is "narrowed down to weed out everyone who is rich and/or talented enough to go straight to a four year college" while many others at viewing it as a flexible stepping stone on the road to higher education.

 

Attending or skipping CC/highschool/any other educational facility doesn't have to mean that people approve or disapprove of anyone.

[Hunter]

So my question is, if someone has no problem with a diverse adult society, where's the problem with public schools?

 

I don't see how this is a complicated question. So you don't have a problem with the society in community college. Why a problem with high schools? Granted, both have pluses and minuses, but I think the question is a valid question.

 

 

Why do you think all homeschoolers have a problem with high schools? I didn't.

 

One of my kids was 2E and not welcome at the high school.

 

This will probably freak you out more than sheltering, but my older son didn't go to high school because he was too busy working and playing and making art. He had a life that didn't have room in it for high school. He was BUSY doing OTHER things.

[Hunter]

For some of us, public high school is not the DEFAULT. We are not rejecting a default, because we don't recognize it as a default. Public high school is just ONE of MANY options.

[Hunter]

For some of us, public high school is not the DEFAULT. We are not rejecting a default, because we don't recognize it as a default. Public high school is just ONE of MANY options.

If I don't wear orange shirts, I'm not necessarily rejecting orange shirts. I'm just too busy wearing other colors.

 

And my lack of wearing orange shirts is not an act of aggression against people who do wear orange shirts.

 

Maybe I just like pink! And blue, and red, and purple. And green. And black, brown, gray, taupe, white, and charcoal.

[lea_lpz]

What I do NOT support is ridicule of children in the public schools, slights at public school kids, teachers and administrators, and basically snubbing of people who for whatever reason choose to participate in the system.

 

I do NOT agree with the premise that the public schools are something to protect kids from in general, though i would not hesitate to pull my kid from a school in which administrators were not doing their job.

Then we agree here . I may chose to homeschool, and I might not agree with the direction public school is going in regards to the philosophy and methods they use to educate students, but I support teachers, and public schools, from preschool through university in fact. Not every family is able or will want to homeschool and the infrastructure of our society needs an educated population.

 

I do know some homeschool families who have chosen to send their children to private Christian schools assuming that the character of the private school kids would be better and were surprised to find out it was not. That doesn't really surprise me as I have gone to both private Catholic school and public school. And I have gone to affluent public high schools and low income minority ones. By far the worst drug abuse was at the affluent one. So no, I wouldn't make that assumption.

 

And I not trying to say private school is all bad. I know some families who sent their high school age kids to public school as well after homeschooling for years because it was their preference or they couldn't afford private school, and they've been happy with it.

[lea_lpz]

Yes, it does. I bought the book when my first was a wee baby and I still dreamed of homeschooling--i.e. before I knew the girl she'd grow to be. I use the book to guide my overall after schooling curriculum as well as to help me evaluate the schools that my kids attend. Also, I studied philosophy and classics so I have a real affinity for this type of home education.

 

I don't homeschool for a number of reasons, first and foremost, that my little riffraff actually love public school and are far too extraverted to be effectively educated at home. You really have to have a child of this level of extraversion and energy to know what I mean, and let me just say if your child did not literally run away to go to school, then you probably don't have one of them.

 

I've been very lucky in that we live in a wonderful area where kids still get recess, still have music, art, library, and PE in schools, where there are trees and loving teachers and so on. The basic curriculum fits the spine of WTM, with a bit more science and a bit less history. So my kids go to their lovely schools and then we after school with reading, grammar, history with mom through stories, and foreign language for the one who isn't in immersion, and so on.

 

I was lucky my kids loved school because when my husband left, I was in a position to continue working. So now returning to homeschooling is not an option though I do dream that if my children don't get into the programs they want in high school they will view homeschooling as a real possibility, which is another reason I stay on this board.

 

Sorry I didn't list after schoolers. Must have slipped my mind. Your posts seemed to come off as being anti-homeschool and I was genuinely wondering if you were a homeschooler, a regular boardie, or just stirring the pot. Come to think of it I recognize your name now. Didn't mean this to offend you. I am not sure of the specific rules with who should post but in the past when I have seen posts from people who have no interest in classical education or homeschooling but just want to stir the pot so to speak I tend to wonder why on earth they are on a board primarily for homeschoolers (is that accurate?). Not saying you!

 

Tsuga you don't need to defend why your kids go to public school to me! If it's not feasible as a single mother and if it means you'd be fighting a kid tooth and nail and your family is happy then that's awesome! Really. And for the record if my kids wanted to go to a traditional brick and mortar school for high school the public high school would likely be it. I can not see us putting two children in our area through private school as they run at about $12,000 a year per student.

 

And I have a PPS credential (counselor education). Before homeschooling I fully attended to work in jr high in a PS. Still might be an option if my kids go to school.

[Guest]

I don't think you guys are reading what I wrote.

 

The OP herself said that social reasons were one reason she homeschooled.

 

 

Yes, she said social reasons were ONE of the reasons she homeschooled, which means there are many other reasons that may (or may not) be more important than social reasons.

But the OP did not state exactly what "social reasons" meant.  They obviously mean something to you.  But what if "social reasons" for the OP means

- significant crime/drug problems?

- known for major bullying problems

- her child has already had poor interactions with the local ps population

- she knows first-hand that the classes have a lack of discipline

- her child has made the choice not to be in that environment

- her child has a personality or medical problems that make the public school "social" atmosphere not an option

- and so on

- and so on

 

I think you've attached yourself to a very minor point without knowing exactly what it means. I don't think ANYONE on this thread has said the things that you are saying they said.

[Matryoshka]

 

So my question is, if someone has no problem with a diverse adult society, where's the problem with public schools?

 

I don't see how this is a complicated question. So you don't have a problem with the society in community college. Why a problem with high schools? Granted, both have pluses and minuses, but I think the question is a valid question.

 

 

There is a big difference, although it's not necessarily good or bad - more like Hunter's orange shirt analogy.

 

I have three dds, all are now high-school aged. I homeschooled the older two up through high school, and the other one through part of middle school   I gave them a choice of what to do for high school - they all chose to go.

 

One is now a senior in ps.  It has gone very well for her.  Her twin sister punted after 10th grade.  For her, she felt smothered and overwhelmed by getting up at 6-something in the morning, being in the building for over 6 hours, 4 minutes between classes in an overcrowded hallway with no time to even pee, 20 minutes for lunch so no time then either, in fact you're lucky if you have time to eat, rinse and repeat every single day.  She had lots of friends.  She got good grades.  But she was wilting.

 

For her, CC has been so much better.  She doesn't have to get up at the crack of dawn, so she's getting a lot more sleep.  She has lots of time between classes, and she can go outside, chat with people, or just have some time to think and process.  And yes, she can choose what she wants to take - Anthropology, Criminal Justice, Myths, Arabic - those are all classes she couldn't have taken at the ps high school.

 

And as far as the social, that hasn't really been an issue for my kids - they've all easily made friends at the high school, and I haven't heard even a whisper about cliques or bullying.  But there is a huge difference in the sense that at the CC, you aren't with the same kids, stuffed in a building for 6 hours, with no escape, or break, or any easy way to make any other friends.  If for some reason someone or some group doesn't like you, there's no escape - even after school at activities or sports, it's the same kids.  There is very little way to make friends outside of the fishbowl.  At the CC, you go to class, and then you can leave.  Your classes are rarely with the same kids - every one has a different set of kids.  You can hang out with other people after class if you like, or you can just go home, or leave campus.  You are not stuck there.  For many kids in high school, if they have a good social circle, this isn't really a problem, but for anyone who hasn't found their people, or worse does have a bully, they really can feel trapped.  And even though my kids haven't had social problems at the ps, I think it's been an extra help that they were homeschooled for so long, they've got lots of other friends, and the ps has never seemed like it has to be their whole social world.  Yes, the kids (adults!) are more mature at CC - again, you can avoid them easily, or for my dd who's there, she really enjoys meeting and talking to people from many different paths in life, including fellow homeschoolers, kids who graduated and chose CC for whatever reason (money, grades), or have come back to CC after leaving another college, or going later in life.  She likes that better than being in a group of kids all her own age, all from middle and upper-middle class backgrounds, with very limited life experience.  That's her - she's always been mature for her age. No one ever guesses she's a DE student.

 

I have no idea what will happen with my youngest, who is now a freshman, and if anything young for her age.  She has lots of friends and is doing well in most of her classes.  But she's started begging to come home - I think this may be partly due to her not doing so well in one class, which we're working on.  I'm not giving in yet - she was refusing to work with me at home, and this is one of the reasons she's at ps.  And I don't feel like in her case, at 14, she is ready for a CC environment, both because she'd be so much younger, and because I'd like her to have a bit more experience with study skills before she takes on a college class whose grade will be on her permanent college record.  But if she continues to want to leave, I could be more open to her going to the CC in another year or two (although honestly it would be so much easier for me if she just stayed in the ps), as it has worked out very well for her sister.  She's so much happier there, and she'll have over 30 credits to transfer on top of it.

 

Every kid, every family is different.  High school and CC are different.  Pink shirt, orange shirt.  Choosing one is not necessarily to avoid the other.

 

[KarenC]

 

 

It's not the low opinion of high school students. It's an inflexibility of a current HS structure. 

Exactly.  Here, HS is all or none.  We have no choice and no flexibility.  With dual enrollment, we do have to pay for the class, but we have a lot of flexibility.

[Desert Strawberry]

My experience high school was that it was a kind of holding zone where everyone was making time until they were of age to work or go to college. Not a great deal of learning was happening. At least for me. I wanted to skip it, go to alternative school for a year, then to CC. I ended up graduating at seventeen, burnt out from busy work, with not quite stellar grades and heading to CC anyway. I learned more in my first semester of college than in a year of high school. 

This was a high ranking public high school and a UC aligned CC. Not crappy schools, by any measure.

I was never bullied, but I did have a boy set my hair on fire in Spanish class once, and I caused plenty of my own ruckus, too. I don't think any of that would have been tolerated at CC.

I am keeping Sagg out of high school next year for social reasons. He is extremely introverted, and highly self-motivated. He has no desire to be packed into classes and navigate hallways with hundreds of other people. None. He teared up when I suggested we might look into public high school for him. He calls his alone time far too much.

That's just one reason. There is also the academic side. He is zipping through math and struggles with writing. He tends to be anxious. Being continuously graded, tested, evaluated, scrutinized, in courses that he had little to no control over choosing, on someone else's time table would be damaging to his psyche and his progress. Wait, that's more psychosocial than academic, isn't it. 

I am not at all opposed to sending him to one to the hours a day off CC classes, of his choosing, when he's ready.

I am not afraid of public school. I am certainly not afraid of public school kids. I'm not sure where that idea is coming from. I find the structure of all full day, standardized, group-learning institutions to be less than ideal. 

That is really, really to whole of it.

[lea_lpz]

My experience high school was that it was a kind of holding zone where everyone was making time until they were of age to work or go to college. Not a great deal of learning was happening. At least for me. I wanted to skip it, go to alternative school for a year, then to CC. I ended up graduating at seventeen, burnt out from busy work, with not quite stellar grades and heading to CC anyway. I learned more in my first semester of college than in a year of high school.

This was a high ranking public high school and a UC aligned CC. Not crappy schools, by any measure.

I was never bullied, but I did have a boy set my hair on fire in Spanish class once, and I caused plenty of my own ruckus, too. I don't think any of that would have been tolerated at CC.

I am keeping Sagg out of high school next year for social reasons. He is extremely introverted, and highly self-motivated. He has no desire to be packed into classes and navigate hallways with hundreds of other people. None. He teared up when I suggested we might look into public high school for him. He calls his alone time far too much.

That's just one reason. There is also the academic side. He is zipping through math and struggles with writing. He tends to be anxious. Being continuously graded, tested, evaluated, scrutinized, in courses that he had little to no control over choosing, on someone else's time table would be damaging to his psyche and his progress. Wait, that's more psychosocial than academic, isn't it.

I am not at all opposed to sending him to one to the hours a day off CC classes, of his choosing, when he's ready.

I am not afraid of public school. I am certainly not afraid of public school kids. I'm not sure where that idea is coming from. I find the structure of all full day, standardized, group-learning institutions to be less than ideal.

That is really, really to whole of it.

My experience of high school was similar. I felt like I was just bidding time in high school and by 16 I was more than capable of doing college level work. In fact the summer I turned 16 (right before jr year) I took the STAR test at my local CC and tested into English 1A, and Pre-Cal or Stats.

 

I went to public high school my freshmen through junior year but started taking some summer school classes at CC. My senior year I was burned out and decided I wanted to go to CC and transfer to a UC as a junior; I only needed 3 classes senior year, so I decided to do the independent study program and register at my local CC through concurrent enrollment. I took English 4, business math (I already did alg 2), and Econ & Gov., and then did my electives at CC. By the time I graduated high school I had 21 college units and had taken drama, speech, yoga, psychology, Spanish 1/2, and anthropology. Then I did 3 semesters as a college age student and transferred to UC Berkeley.

 

I think it was a great choice for me! I could have gotten into a 4 year fresh out of high school. I took all the college prep courses, took and passed 3 AP classes, and had a 3.7 GPA. I might not have gotten into UCB but I could have gotten in somewhere.

 

As far as my own personal experience between public high school and CC through concurrent enrollment---yes, the kids who partied and drank and ditched class and the older guys were there--but the peer pressure wasn't, and that about sums it up for me! If I wanted trouble I could find it. But I didn't. When older boys asked me out I told them I was only 17 and a senior, and I had a boyfriend. I didn't make too friendly with the kids who showed up hungover or smelling like weed, and they didn't twist my arm to join them. We were all (mostly) adults. So there wasn't really the same bullying, peer pressure or gossip as you see in public high school IMO. I went to class, I worked part time, I hung out with my high school friends and boyfriend.

 

All and all, I think I would consider my kids maturity level to see if concurrent enrollment was a good choice or not. If they had a history of say getting caught drinking or smoking pot and my daughter liked dating shady dudes then definitely not! If they were not really great students, self motivated, and we're likely to not get decent grades, I would probably keep them home or to a public or private high school. My general philosophy is we can't shelter or kids or make them hold our faith and values. We can only hope if we train up a child in the way he should go, when they are old they will not depart from it. Hopefully by the te my kids are 16 they will be able to have some independence and make good choices.

[MerryAtHope]

 So you don't have a problem with the society in community college. Why a problem with high schools? Granted, both have pluses and minuses, but I think the question is a valid question.

 

First, social reasons are not a huge part of why I homeschool (take away that reason and I'd still homeschool without question). I also have not chosen to use the dual enrollment option for my oldest (who is now in college), but didn't reject it for social reasons (and would consider it).

 

I think your question sets up a dichotomy that isn't necessarily there--ie, that the reasons are mainly or even mostly social. Most people I know homeschool primarily for religious, academic, family relationships, time, and flexibility reasons. All of these make homeschool or homeschool with dual enrollment a much easier choice than public school. I don't know of families who rejected public high school purely on social reasons yet then did dual enrollment instead. It doesn't sound totally unreasonable to me though--sending a student to one class that meets 3 times per week is a lot different than putting them in a school for 30+ hours per week. If a person's main concern was about exposure to "bad stuff," peer pressure, or bullying--these two choices are vastly different just based on time alone, even if all other factors are equal.

 

I *do* know families who made those choices based on academic, economic, and scheduling reasons, for whom social reasons may or may not have played a part but weren't the major reason. (Social reasons seem to be a minor reason for the OP, rather than a deciding factor.)

• Academic reasons--variety of classes, ability to take a class in a subject the parent doesn't want or isn't able to teach, start earning college credit now
• Economic reasons--college credits at a CC can transfer to a 4-year school, but are a fraction of the cost (in some states, CC is free for dual enrollment)
• Scheduling reasons--ability to take just one or two classes and keep the flexibility of homeschooling the rest, rather than be tied to a year-round public school calendar. CC classes usually afford longer winter and summer breaks than the public schools, plus a student doesn't have to enroll every semester.

Other reasons to consider:

• Class size--CC's tend to have smaller class sizes
• Other academic reasons--many college classes versus a few AP offerings (our high school offers 7 AP classes, with an exam pass-rate of 18%. 34% of students are in a talented/gifted program, yet the average ACT score is 19.3 and only 15% of students are "college-ready" in all four subject areas on the ACT.  
• Crime rate (much lower at our CC--5 thefts, 1 property damage, and 1 domestic violence case last year. High school has significant gang issues.)
• Atmosphere--people choose to go to CC, whereas students are required to go to public high school until a certain age. That certainly affects dynamics and overall atmosphere.
• High schools by nature are set up to be cliquish. CCs allow students to avoid that scene much more easily because you come and go, take classes you want to take, etc... It can still happen but is easier to ignore.
• CC is much more diverse. It's *some* of the same people (advanced students doing dual enrollment, regular college kids who go for a myriad of reasons, and a large portion of older students returning to earn certificates or degrees.) Our CC draws people from four counties, and even from other states (when my son did a tour, he was the only one from our town. Two people were from out of state, one from 2 states away to be near a friend, and one from more than 1000 miles away because of a popular program our CC offers.) 

These things work together to create very different social and academic learning environments, and people considering one option or the other will want to carefully investigate the options. I don't think we can reasonably say the environment is necessarily the same (and that in some cases you could definitely say one is more positive than the other). Sometimes it's not about the individuals you might meet and their particular backgrounds, whether you'll hear swearing or be exposed to sexual talk (yes, at both), but the overall climate and dynamics of the school. That's going to be unique to the schools in question. It sounds like in your town, they are very similar. It's not the same everywhere you go.

[readwithem]

Background: The grandparents don't get homeschooling at all, especially for high school. The biggest concern? Team sports. They, well grandpa mostly, wants Twin 2 to play team sports. 1. He has no interest 2. I would let him if he wanted to and he can as a homeschooler. Twin 2 is starting DE at the local CC. He's going to take 1 class in the spring to ease him into it. Something fun, not a core class. We had lunch with the grandparents today and he was talking about what he was going to take.

 

The comment? "You're not sending him to public school because you're worried about the social influences (true, but not the only reason for homeschooling), but you're going to send him to CC with older kids who couldn't get into real colleges? He doesn't have the social experience to go there without going to high school. What about all the sexual predators?"

 

OMG! I need some one liners to shut them down the next time this comes up.

I'm close to 60 and I don't have experience with sexual predators.  Thankfully.

[NCMom]

 

What I do NOT support is ridicule of children in the public schools, slights at public school kids, teachers and administrators, and basically snubbing of people who for whatever reason choose to participate in the system.

 

I do NOT agree with the premise that the public schools are something to protect kids from in general, though i would not hesitate to pull my kid from a school in which administrators were not doing their job.

But how did the OP ridicule or snub PS students?

 

I actually saw it more as the grandparent stating that as the reason he believed they were homeschooling, not that the OP thought it was her main reason for homeschooling. No doubt I could have read that incorrectly, lol.

 

But even so - sincere question - is it a snub or ridicule to say that you homeschool for social reasons? Note that she simply said that, not any more. Not anything against her local PS or the kids there. Social reasons covers a myriad of things, some of which posters noted in the thread.

 

I do agree that from his point of view it is a valid question, though I would argue based on my kids' experiences (in both places) that socialization at a CC is way different than socialization at a high school. But I don't know her PS or CC. My local CC is not like you describe. It is full of teens and 20 somethings and former textile workers...

 

And my kids absolutely are NOT homeschooled as a protection from the PS. Two of them went to a PS at various times, as they chose. It worked fine. But homeschooling for us is not running away from something but rather moving towards an individualized education. Homeschooling just happened to be the way that education worked out.

 

Georgia

[foxbridgeacademy]

Why I would send my kid to CC but not to H.S. (unless that's what they want to do and they accept the rules/regulations that go along with it).

In public school you the student have to be there.  Your classmates HAVE to be there, no matter what they want.  A few will drop out the moment they turn 16 if the state lets them, others will disrupt class and cause all kinds of disorder because they HATE being there.  Teachers are often regulated to being little more than babysitters.  They are often burned out and just don't care any longer.  the ones who do care will still have a hard time reaching the students who will benefit the most because of the few to many students who would rather be doing anything else.  

 

Why CC is different is simple, the students want to be there, they PAY to be there.  If you get a bad Prof., no problem either drop the class, take it at a different time with a different instructor or if nothing else, complain.  You're the customer, if the instructor gets enough complaints they will be let go.  In P.S. you are definitely not the customer and student complaints count for squat.  The state is the cutomer and they pay for you to be there, kind of like the prison system.

 

P.S. is great for some kids, okay for many, and totally sucks for a good portion of us(yes, I was one of the students who hated P.S.).  Whether it be sub-par education, a one size fits all plan, lack of flexibility, or that I just want to spend more time with my kids(as well as 1000 other reasons) P.S. just doesn't give us what we need, where as for many, CC does.  I really think it's that simple and that's what I would say to any FIL who questioned our choices, "this is  what works for us".

[lea_lpz]

Background: The grandparents don't get homeschooling at all, especially for high school. The biggest concern? Team sports. They, well grandpa mostly, wants Twin 2 to play team sports. 1. He has no interest 2. I would let him if he wanted to and he can as a homeschooler. Twin 2 is starting DE at the local CC. He's going to take 1 class in the spring to ease him into it. Something fun, not a core class. We had lunch with the grandparents today and he was talking about what he was going to take.

 

The comment? "You're not sending him to public school because you're worried about the social influences (true, but not the only reason for homeschooling), but you're going to send him to CC with older kids who couldn't get into real colleges? He doesn't have the social experience to go there without going to high school. What about all the sexual predators?"

 

OMG! I need some one liners to shut them down the next time this comes up.

This is funny to me. I recently heard this argument and my son is in kindergarten. My mother and I were talking and I causally mentioned something about homeschooling (can't remember what. Nothing major, just our day or whatever) and she asked me if I wanted to know "who was against me homeschooling?" She was getting ready to list them, when she she was quite shocked to register that I said causally, "no, not really." She then tried to continue, "well, one concern is sports. How will they get scholarships to schools for say football?" I assume she meant my 6 year old son. I didn't really even know how to respond. After all it's hard when we are having two different conversations (happens often; pretty sure she's BPD & a narcissist). Pass the bean dip. "Ever hear of Tim Tebow? If ds does end up wanting to play football in high school he can but that's a long way off."

 

Utterly hilarious because no one in my family or my husband's family has ever had a sports scholarship to college, we don't watch football except for like Super Bowl, and my son has shown zero interest in team sports at this point but then he's 6 and a kindergartner. If he were to be offered a football scholarship to college (theoretically) I am not sure I would even want him to accept. Unless he was super passionate about I would honestly prefer he focus on his degree. I've worked with student athletes and it's hard balance for them.

 

There's been some other interesting comments lately but really I try to ignore, so long as they aren't directed at my kids.

 

Latest--me-dd did state testing and I got the results

Mom- how'd she do?

Me- good. At grade level in most areas and above in vocabary and reading comprehension.

Mom- well that's good. That's all we ask all of us. (Tone is "attempting to be reassuring / approving")

Me- (inner-dialogue) can't recall seeking aproaval and who is "we"!?!

[MomOfABunch]

I actually saw it more as the grandparent stating that as the reason he believed they were homeschooling, not that the OP thought it was her main reason for homeschooling. No doubt I could have read that incorrectly, lol.

 

But even so - sincere question - is it a snub or ridicule to say that you homeschool for social reasons? Note that she simply said that, not any more. Not anything against her local PS or the kids there. Social reasons covers a myriad of things, some of which posters noted in the thread.

 

You're exactly right. The GRANDPARENTS think that the kids homeschool solely for social reasons and that I am forcing this choice on them without their imput. This is my frustration. Despite being told numerous times by myself and Twin 2, they stick to the assumption and insert it in conversation often. It's clear that they think I'm denying him "the American high school experience," aka varsity sports, specifically football. Twin 2 has absolutely zero interest. He's a 3rd degree black belt, he likes to work out at the gym and this year he's taken on a couple dozen chickens. Those are his things and I support them. Should he want to join a sports team, at the high school or otherwise, I would let him.

What I meant in the opening post was that I do see there CAN BE social benefits to not spending 30+ hours a week at school. Not that there definately are in every situation, but in Twin 2s case, not spending so much time there frees him up to assistant teach the lower level tae quan do classes, raise his fancy chickens, work out, take a variety of county rec classes, etc, etc, etc. and the biggest one for us, is not be ostracized by his peers for learning things quickly, which has transformed him from a public schooled elementary student who hated school to a high schooler who loves learning and doing research. For his situation, that is what I meant.

Speaking as a licensed teacher, I believe public school is a great option for a lot of people. But homeschooling has broadened my view to see it as just that, an option. If you use it and it works for you, great. If it doesn't work for you or you choose not to use it, there are other options that are great also.

 

The point of this post was meant to be frustration regarding the grandparents assumptions on my motivations for homeschooling, that I'm deliberately socially crippling my kids. Because that's what I'm really trying to do, right?

[Jean in Newcastle]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: May I gently reiterate my advice up thread to set boundaries?  I didn't say it directly like that but I did give a one line boundary setting statement - not exactly a humorous one-liner but I think perhaps something that is more helpful in the long run.  This sounds like it has been going on for a long time.  Yes, grandparents have a concerned interest in what happens to their grandkids.  And yes, they have a right to ask questions. But these grandparents are not asking questions.  They are trying to impose their will on you regardless of the real circumstances.  To protect your son and his relationship with your parents you really need to set clear boundaries and enforce them.  People who are used to trying to impose their will on others will try to plow through boundaries.  They won't like it if you enforce them.  But in my experience, if you do enforce them it can not only give you peace but it can in some cases bring the grandparents around to actually respecting you more.  

[MomOfABunch]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: May I gently reiterate my advice up thread to set boundaries? I didn't say it directly like that but I did give a one line boundary setting statement - not exactly a humorous one-liner but I think perhaps something that is more helpful in the long run. This sounds like it has been going on for a long time. Yes, grandparents have a concerned interest in what happens to their grandkids. And yes, they have a right to ask questions. But these grandparents are not asking questions. They are trying to impose their will on you regardless of the real circumstances. To protect your son and his relationship with your parents you really need to set clear boundaries and enforce them. People who are used to trying to impose their will on others will try to plow through boundaries. They won't like it if you enforce them. But in my experience, if you do enforce them it can not only give you peace but it can in some cases bring the grandparents around to actually respecting you more.

This is good advice. Thank you.

[mamiof5]

Totally agree with the above post about setting boundaries. And couldn't agree more with what you meant about a highschool schedule maybe crippling some children. Our oldest went to PS all the way through highschool, she was very involved in it and at the time loved the physical and educational activities she was involved with. Now she is in college and loves the flexibility of her schedule, she even said not that long ago that now she realizes that highschool was a huge waste of her time. My jaw just dropped! Never thought I'd hear that from her. I know all children and situations are different, and with so many choices people are trying to decide what works best for their particular situation.

[mom2jjka]

For me it boils down to the fact that once my child steps through the doors of a PS - my rights as a parent end.  They are basically wards of the state for those 7 hours a day that they are in school. Legally, they have to be there.  And, not only will they be marked truant if they do not attend, but I/my child will have no voice in the matter of what they may be exposed to.

 

In a CC class, if they are being bullied, or the don't get along with the teacher, or even if they don't agree morally with the content being taught, they can withdraw from the class and walk away with little repercussions.

 

[klmama]

Oldest dc took classes senior year at the CC.  We looked into dc taking classes at the local high schools, too, but their schedules were very restrictive and didn't work for dc's overall schedule.  The CC was much more flexible in terms of days and times classes were offered, and it had the benefit of college credit. 

 

 

[KarenNC]

It's been interesting for me to watch how the attitudes of both my in-laws and parents have changed over the course of our homeschooling (we started when my daughter was 4, she's now 15) due to their own frames of reference, not necessarily related to the reasons we actually chose to homeschool. Our initial reasons were lack of diversity in local schools, lack of support for her academic needs (gifted), flexibility of schedule for travel, and selling our house and moving over the summer so we didn't know where we would be when she started kindergarten. We keep on going because it works for us and we see no compelling need to change--period. It has nothing to do with fear.

 

My (very conservative, very evangelical) parents viewed it initially as sheltering my daughter from an ungodly world, and liked it because my older stepsister-in-law homeschooled her youngest son who was getting beaten up in kindergarten for telling other Christian children they were going to hell for being the wrong kind of Christian. Their assumptions about our reasons to homeschool had nothing to do with reality. We're raging liberal Neopagans---we're the folks lots of people around here homeschool to avoid. ;)   Her homeschooling experience has actually been more diverse (religiously, ethnically, kids with disabilities, etc) than the public elementary school would have been because we value that diversity and have worked hard to make it so. That same sister-in-law sent her son to public high school, so now I tend to get subtle and not-so-subtle criticisms about homeschooling high school. They are relieved she may be doing some dual enrollment next year (when she becomes eligible) because that's "normal" (ie another family member has a kid in an early college high school program). I don't know that they care so much about the "high school experience" per se. I also get conflicting messages from my father over being at home---on the one hand, it's what women are supposed to do, on the other that I'm over-involved with my daughter because I didn't send her to high school and work (you guessed it, the stepsister-in-law did that :rolleyes: ).

 

My in-laws were supportive and generally remain so because of the abiliity to customize her education to her areas of giftedness. I'm getting some pushback from my father-in-law over the idea of dual enrollment because he had an uncle who went to college at 16 and who said it hurt him socially for years. Again, his frame of reference has nothing to do with the reality of my daughter's experience. They also don't seem to care much about the "high school experience." It's possible the situation would be different if she was a boy and had even a passing interest in sports, as my father-in-law loves sports of all kinds. 

 

To Tsuga's question, my daughter actively does not desire to go to the local (very well ranked and affluent) public high school because she has no interest in or patience to deal with the teen social drama all day, day in and day out. She has many friends who are in public school and is well aware of the atmosphere there. She is excited at the prospect of college classes, because she sees those as places where people are focused on getting an education, not who is sleeping with whom  or wearing what or driving what model of car. It's worth pointing out that she has no patience for the teen social drama in local homeschooling circles either, but it's much easier to either avoid that or to have to deal with it in much smaller doses. She also enjoys the flexiblity to work at her own pace, customize her course choices a bit more than might be available at the local public school, which leaves her the ability to be involved with the local community theater, Girl Scouts, aikido, and writing (all of which involve teens and adults, homeschooled and not).

 

From my end, dual enrollment offers academic flexibility (take one course, take four, pick and choose those that are of interest) and will hopefully help with college admission and, depending on the college, transferable credits. I would probably not have chosen to put her in a community college classroom at 13 as a 9th grader because of the level of mature content often involved, but at 16 as a junior it will be a very different matter.

[ktgrok]

Most homeschoolers I know reject the idea of socialization as 30 same-age peers hanging out in a classroom all day, 

At high school age, I personally would rather my kids be talking to or learning about the veteran with PTSD and international students than hanging out with a bunch of other 15 or 16 year olds with first world problems and drama.  Also, my experience at CC is that people in general were much kinder and easier to get along with than any of my high school experiences with the "popular" crowd.

 

 

This. 

 

Not to mention, 3 hours a week at the CC, no matter how "bad" is better than 30 hours a week at the highschool, if your goal is to create a certain culture at home. 

[luuknam]

Sexual assault on college campuses is very real and we have way more men teaching.

 

Um, wow. Many of my favorite teachers were male (all of 3rd-6th grade were male, and more than half of the 7th-12th grade ones, and probably about half of the college ones). I haven't ever been sexually assaulted by any of them, nor have I ever heard any allegations made against any of them. To be honest, I think that in a lot of public schools there is a serious shortage of male teachers, as far as balance is concerned. I don't think most people become community college teachers with the intent of sexually assaulting 15yo male DE students.

 

So my question is, if someone has no problem with a diverse adult society, where's the problem with public schools?

 

Because high school isn't "diverse adult society". If I had to go back to high school for 4 years as a student, I'd go postal. I didn't have anywhere near as many problems interacting with various adults as a teen than I did with same-age peers who were forced to be in school with me full time, even though I was in what pretty much equates to the full-time AP track in a good high school. I travelled by train to another city at night once a month to work on a magazine with some adults when I was 16, taking the train back around 23:00 and getting home (bicycling from the train station) around midnight. But high school socialization? No. Not as bad as middle school, as the kids were a bit more mature in high school, and did less physical bullying and more excluding, but still rather bad. The only reason I survived high school was that I managed to be "ill" and stayed at home about a quarter of the time while maintaining good grades. From what I understand, in the US, if you do that in high school, they will not let you pass the class, even if you've got 100 on every test and homework.

[albeto.]

You're exactly right. The GRANDPARENTS think that the kids homeschool solely for social reasons and that I am forcing this choice on them without their imput. This is my frustration. Despite being told numerous times by myself and Twin 2, they stick to the assumption and insert it in conversation often.

 

If you could find reasons that have value for unreasonable people, you'd win the ultra mega super prize of the universe. In the meantime, you can't reason with unreasonable people. It sounds like these grandparents don't respect you or your decisions. If after all this time they still don't, I wouldn't hold your breath. Boundaries are great. Knowing how to change the subject is great. Making the joke on you so as to take the wind out of their sails is great. It also models for your kids what having thick skin and learning how to laugh at yourself looks like. Fwiw, my fil thought I was a terrible mother because I didn't let my kids watch every flippin' Disney video that ever came out. What kind of red-blooded American mother doesn't let her children watch every Disney video in existence? Only the kind who hates Disney. And babies. And 'Murica. In reality, he just thought I was a terrible mother and the videos was something concrete he could grab onto. Sometimes, you just can't win. That' why god invented good friends and cold beer. ;-)