mckive6 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 My dd is currently taking this class. Can anyone who's dc have taken this class in the past tell me if this class primarily relies on the text for learning all year? She is struggling to learn all the concepts on her own, from the text. She's tried to start a discussion group with other students but it hasn't happened. We're trying to decide if she can stick it out. She's done very well in other AP classes here. She plans to contact the teacher today. I'm just wondering if anyone can fill us in on what to expect the rest of the year. Thank you! Pauline 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoPlaceLikeHome Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Our kid has not taken but what about Khan Academy videos or the Great Courses has a lecture series on Biology that might be useful as a supplement. Also, on youtube there is Crash Course which has a biology series in addition to many other subject areas in short funny and good videos, Also, Discovery Education has tons of biology videos if you are a subscriber or live in area which it is free. Forgot to add that often libraries have the Great Courses DVDs if you want to see them for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 This course did not work for my dd because of this issue. Just reading about it didn't engage her enough with the material. She ended up dropping the class and self-studying for the AP test (of course after the deadline for any refund had passed...). I know other people have had success with it, but my dd needed a teacher who teaches, not just a list of readings and assignments... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The Bozeman videos are excellent and can help fill that gap. If you don't see a subject under AP biology, look under regular plain old biology, and you'll most likely find it there. Even though I do teach AP bio in our little co-op, I assign the videos to watch when students don't understand the concepts and need someone else to present them. Mr. Anderson does a good job. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 The Bozeman videos are excellent and can help fill that gap. If you don't see a subject under AP biology, look under regular plain old biology, and you'll most likely find it there. Even though I do teach AP bio in our little co-op, I assign the videos to watch when students don't understand the concepts and need someone else to present them. Mr. Anderson does a good job. I have heard good things about the Bozeman videos also. Unfortunately for me, my dd apparently also isn't interested in watching video lectures - except maybe Crash Course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Does the teacher give feedback on assignments? It seems like quite a bit of money for what ends up being self-study that needs additional supplements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 FWIW, we dropped a different PA Homeschoolers class for the same reason. I couldn't determine why the fee was so much for basically an assignment list, weekly emails, and occasional comments. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckive6 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 It is comforting to hear we are not alone, but I'm sorry, Matryshoka, and Woodland Mist Academy, that your dc had the same problem. This is her 4th PA Homeschooler class, and since the class had good reviews, we assumed it would be interactive. I just assumed the teacher at least made videos to teach the topics. These complicated labs are also hard to do without a lab partner. My dd tried to set up discussion groups but I guess with everyone's busy schedules it's been hard to get them up and running. I had forgotten about crash course and Bozeman videos. She watched him with Bio a few years ago and it was helpful. Interestingly enough, my dd did just told me her teacher said not to watch these videos because they won't help with the AP test. I'm just not sure what to do...drop it or continue. Thanks for your help!! Pauline 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Pauline, what text does the class use? Found it. I looked through the course description and through the past reviews. There appears to be more involved than your dd is experiencing. One of the first reviews said that the student spent 3-4 hours per day on the class. My ds, who took the class through our ps last year, put in about that much time as well. For many students who are accustomed to "A's," this is still often a very difficult class. You can't skip any corners in the learning process. Is your dd doing all of the reading guides? It may still be early enough that students aren't quite feeling the pressure to form outside study groups, but my guess is that the time is coming. For ds's class, the teacher lectured, the kids read the text, did labs, and had optional reading guides. DS liked it because there was so much information to process and there was no busy work. He said you figure out pretty quickly that reading guides are an absolute must and they are helpful for the tests. Our experience, while not with PAHS, was that AP Biology can have a huge learning curve in just managing that much knowledge at a very rapid pace. I hope the instructor is responsive to your concerns. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckive6 Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 Lisa, the class uses Campbell Biology, 9th edition. Pauline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 It is comforting to hear we are not alone, but I'm sorry, Matryshoka, and Woodland Mist Academy, that your dc had the same problem. This is her 4th PA Homeschooler class, and since the class had good reviews, we assumed it would be interactive. I just assumed the teacher at least made videos to teach the topics. These complicated labs are also hard to do without a lab partner. My dd tried to set up discussion groups but I guess with everyone's busy schedules it's been hard to get them up and running. I had forgotten about crash course and Bozeman videos. She watched him with Bio a few years ago and it was helpful. Interestingly enough, my dd did just told me her teacher said not to watch these videos because they won't help with the AP test. I'm just not sure what to do...drop it or continue. Thanks for your help!! Pauline I would be interested in knowing which PA Homeschoolers classes were a more positive experience for her. I'm presuming they were more interactive. Feel free to PM me if you'd like. Good luck deciding what to do about the class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Pauline, what text does the class use? Found it. I looked through the course description and through the past reviews. There appears to be more involved than your dd is experiencing. One of the first reviews said that the student spent 3-4 hours per day on the class. My ds, who took the class through our ps last year, put in about that much time as well. 15-20 hours a week on one class? Do the students take many other classes? I'm trying to envision how this works if the student is taking 6-7 classes and doing extra-curricular activities. Looks like we'll be crossing AP Bio off our list... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 15-20 hours a week on one class? Do the students take many other classes? I'm trying to envision how this works if the student is taking 6-7 classes and doing extra-curricular activities. Looks like we'll be crossing AP Bio off our list... My student is a slow reader. He took AP Biology, AP English Literature, AP Statistics, AP Macroeconomics, and Honors 4 Spanish - only 5 credits, but he was swamped. He spent 3-4 hours daily, the first couple of months and then was able to back it down a bit until a month or so before the test. He got faster at doing the reading guides. If you look through the PA Homeschoolers' reviews for the class, students' times varied, but for most of them, it was a minimum of 2 hours per day. One student pointed it that you need to work weekends too. It's the nature of the beast unless you have a highly motivated, well-organized student, who preferably has taken biology, but especially chemistry earlier. I can certainly understand backing out of a class that is not working for the student, but I guess I would caution exploring the sources of discontent before pulling because first of all, it's not cheap to pull from PAHS classes, and the student has two months of time already invested. The reviews for the class are thoughtful, well-written, and the students obviously put a lot of thought into what they wrote. This tells me that they took the class seriously and that they were probably strong, committed students. Ds has worked with two of them in Mrs. Inspektor's classes. This makes me think that there are ways to work with this class and this instructor. I would go out on a limb and say that successful AP Biology students have to like a certain level of challenge. If not, then it helps to be gifted. :tongue_smilie: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckive6 Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Lisa, My dd is spending that much time, and I think she is using all the resources available. I think your are right about the learning curve, with so much information to learn so quickly. I think this is a class that would have been better to take at a brick and mortar school. Just doing labs with other students would have made a big difference. Now, her 12 year old brother, a very sciency guy, is her lab partner :laugh: We'll figure it out. She wants to work through it. Thankfully, cross country just ended! Thanks! Pauline 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Lisa, My dd is spending that much time, and I think she is using all the resources available. I think your are right about the learning curve, with so much information to learn so quickly. I think this is a class that would have been better to take at a brick and mortar school. Just doing labs with other students would have made a big difference. Now, her 12 year old brother, a very sciency guy, is her lab partner :laugh: We'll figure it out. She wants to work through it. Thankfully, cross country just ended! Thanks! Pauline I think I had at least a couple of threads going this time last year about Sailor Dude's AP Biology class. He's taken some very good, very challenging courses, but that class truly felt like a whole other academic level, which it should be, as an AP class. He struggled the first semester, but then he also initially thought that "optional" reading guides really meant "optional," and not that only idiots would skip them. For some students, it's an earth-moving idea that you will do some things to cement your learning and you may very well not get graded for doing them. I would love to tell you that ds's story had the fairly tale ending, but it didn't. He got a "C" the first semester and a "B" the second semester. He was prouder of that second semester grade than any other grade he has received in high school. He earned a "3" on the test, but was consoled with a 730 on SAT Subject test. I've woven the experience into our Common Application under a note on "academic risk-taking." You and your student will have to decide what is acceptable to you. After running my own chemistry class for ds's 10th grade, I knew I didn't want to do Biology the following year. Ds really needed something between a standard biology class and AP, but no outside honors options were available. In spite of all the struggle, he really loved the class and loved the topic. He learned so many skills that will be helpful to him in college. The grade hit was worth the experience. Please encourage your dd to talk to the teacher. Also, if there is a particular area she is struggling with, ask on this board. It's likely there will be a few members that can send you in the right direction for additional help. There are numerous versions of Campbell's reading guides on the internet, as well solutions manuals. Ds also used the Princeton Review for AP Biology and he sometimes found that the simplified explanations were helpful. Good luck to your daughter. These types of classes can be a tough call on whether or not to keep going. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Mist Academy Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 I think I had at least a couple of threads going this time last year about Sailor Dude's AP Biology class. He's taken some very good, very challenging courses, but that class truly felt like a whole other academic level, which it should be, as an AP class. He struggled the first semester, but then he also initially thought that "optional" reading guides really meant "optional," and not that only idiots would skip them. For some students, it's an earth-moving idea that you will do some things to cement your learning and you may very well not get graded for doing them. :lol: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targhee Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 It is comforting to hear we are not alone, but I'm sorry, Matryshoka, and Woodland Mist Academy, that your dc had the same problem. This is her 4th PA Homeschooler class, and since the class had good reviews, we assumed it would be interactive. I just assumed the teacher at least made videos to teach the topics. These complicated labs are also hard to do without a lab partner. My dd tried to set up discussion groups but I guess with everyone's busy schedules it's been hard to get them up and running. I had forgotten about crash course and Bozeman videos. She watched him with Bio a few years ago and it was helpful. Interestingly enough, my dd did just told me her teacher said not to watch these videos because they won't help with the AP test. I'm just not sure what to do...drop it or continue. Thanks for your help!! Pauline Hmm, that's interesting. Bozeman science has a specific video series for AP bio, and others for general bio. I am teaching Bio (not AP) right now and have found many helpful videos I link up for my class - Bozeman Science and Crash Course both move fast without much time to digest any info so it's best if you watch again after you read. Khan Academy is very wordy and doesn't have the good visuals that Bozeman Science does. Socratic has a variety of videos. You can get a general overview from some less complicated videos aimed at high school bio - like those by Jeremy LeCornu, Penguin Prof, and even Amoeba Sisters or Teacher's Pet - these will give you the forest and a simple look at the trees then you go back to that Campbell text or Bozeman Science and get the close up of the bark. Oh, and there's this whacky Bio teacher who makes music videos with animations, quizzes, flash cards, and reviews - songs get things stuck in your head, so you'll remember all the steps of the electron transport chain (and other things) when needed. http://www.sciencemusicvideos.com Best Wishes! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I had my sights set on AP Bio with PAHS, and find this info disapponting. If DS is going to have to self-teach anyway, I am not sure of the benefit to taking the class. I would be happy to be convinced otherwise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loesje22000 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 EdX has a Free AP Biology course. Maybe that might be a help? I haven't use it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbeltmom Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'll share my experience in case it may be helpful. Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the revised AP Biology class. After my son had completed a high school level biology class, I debated about whether to have him take an AP Biology class. After reading about the time commitment and the amount of memorization required, I decided to scratch AP Bio off the list. Instead of AP Biology, my son took a Genetics class and a Neuroscience class, two topics that he was interested in, at CTY summer camp. He also studied additional topics he was more interested in in-depth as a "home-brewed" class.. His college does not accept credit for AP Biology, and the first day of class the prof told the kids that if they took an AP Biology class that they really won't find that it will helpful in his course. The prof told the kids that they will not have to memorize anything in his class, rather, they will be solving problems. AP Biology is a huge time commitment. If I had a child who was interested in learning about the vast topics covered, I could justify devoting that much time to a class. Since I don't one of those kids, none of mine will be taking AP Biology. YMMV 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGrief Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 My daughter did that AP Bio class with PA Homeschoolers last year. She did fine in the course and got a 5 on the exam, but I do remember that she struggled a bit with the communication style of the teacher. This has not been an issue with other courses from PA Homeschoolers. She stuck it out though, and felt well prepared for the exam at the end. Editing to add that she did not remotely have to spend 3-4 hours a day on the course. Not sure what would be going on that someone would require that much time! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gratia271 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Lisa, My dd is spending that much time, and I think she is using all the resources available. I think your are right about the learning curve, with so much information to learn so quickly. I think this is a class that would have been better to take at a brick and mortar school. Just doing labs with other students would have made a big difference. Now, her 12 year old brother, a very sciency guy, is her lab partner :laugh: We'll figure it out. She wants to work through it. Thankfully, cross country just ended! Thanks! Pauline I don't know whether this will be helpful or not, but I have an extensive AP syllabus I got approved for Bio with notes and resources all keyed to Campbell 9E. I can send you whatever you think might be helpful if you'd like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckive6 Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Gratia271, Thanks! I think the notes and resources would be helpful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckive6 Posted November 20, 2015 Author Share Posted November 20, 2015 In case this helps anyone in the future, I just stumbled on the study guide for the Campbell Biology 9th ed book. We haven't received it yet, but the reviews indicated it is helpful for understanding the chapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 In case this helps anyone in the future, I just stumbled on the study guide for the Campbell Biology 9th ed book. We haven't received it yet, but the reviews indicated it is helpful for understanding the chapters. I have that. It can be useful to get a better sense of what is important in the chapters, since they cut out a lot of the extra stuff. What I like is that there are more questions, both short-answer and multiple choice, with answers in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckive6 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 That sounds like it will be helpful. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 If you have the Campbell text, Google for the name of each individual chapter, along with the chapter number. You can usually find the reading guide and answer sheets online. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 If you have the Campbell text, Google for the name of each individual chapter, along with the chapter number. You can usually find the reading guide and answer sheets online. This link here has links to the reading guides for all the chapters of Campbell (8 ed., but it can still work with newer ones), both Holtzclaw and someone else's. The Holtzclaw ones are incredibly long and detailed, but they really do help break the chapters down into manageable chunks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 This link here has links to the reading guides for all the chapters of Campbell (8 ed., but it can still work with newer ones), both Holtzclaw and someone else's. The Holtzclaw ones are incredibly long and detailed, but they really do help break the chapters down into manageable chunks. Last year, ds's class didn't get their new biology books until the end of October (new Biology in Focus AP ed.), so they were using older Campbell texts and the Holtzclaw guides. When the new books came, there were new guides, but ds thought the Holtzclaw ones were better. That's a nice site that you linked. I love organized and inspired AP teachers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFwife Claire Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Last year, ds's class didn't get their new biology books until the end of October (new Biology in Focus AP ed.), so they were using older Campbell texts and the Holtzclaw guides. When the new books came, there were new guides, but ds thought the Holtzclaw ones were better. That's a nice site that you linked. I love organized and inspired AP teachers. I think I saw chatter on the AP bio teachers forum that the Holtzclaws were working on questions to go with Biology in Focus. I hope it's true! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mckive6 Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Thank you, Claire! This is so helpful! I just printed out the chapter she is on now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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