choosing colleges to apply to?

[mckive6]

I've read so many helpful posts as I help my oldest dc apply to college.  Things I would not have known, so thank you. I'm hoping someone has some ideas or has been where we are now. 

 

My dd has applied to one school early action and is in the process of applying to a few more.  We're hoping to expand her list of colleges.  She's only found a few that she is interested in and  her SAT scores fit the what the school lists.  Her critical reading score is high enough, but her math score is below the 25% for some schools. She is taking the SAT again this weekend.  So is this too far of a reach for her to apply to?

 

She is in Calculus and doing well, but her math SAT score is definitely affected by her vision issues. She was diagnosed with convergence insufficiency and an eye turn in 10th grade, and she had vision therapy, but still struggles with graphs and charts, and the small font. The only way to qualify for accommodations of more time and enlarged print is to have neuropyschology  testing, and we didn't do it. It just didn't seem right to have to go through all that when we know what her problem is. Regretting that now. 

 

Besides SAT's, which I know are very important for admission, she has good grades from outside classes (PA homeschoolers and public school) , two 5"s and one 4 on AP tests.  Her writing skills are very good. Her overall GPA is very high. She did a 6 month foreign exchange and is now fluent in French.

 

She is looking for a school that has Division III cross country, and focuses more on academics, and is not a party school. She's a good runner, but doesn't want to do Division I because she also wants to focus on academics.  She prefers Christian schools but would like to apply to a few other schools also. Hoping to find a school with an honors program so she can be part of a smaller group within a larger school.  She wants to major in Economics, or (perhaps Neuroscience) and minor in French.  

 

Thank you!

Pauline

[clementine]

Is she looking to be in a specific part of the US?

[regentrude]

Not pertinent to your question, but wanted to comment on the evals:

have the neuropsych evals done anyway! Her issues will cause her problems in college, and if she has a documented disability, she qualifies for accommodations which can include extra testing time, materials and tests in larger font, etc. The disability support office of the college cannot request accommodations without formal documentation, so you might want to do it for this reason.

[Laura Corin]

Not pertinent to your question, but wanted to comment on the evals:

have the neuropsych evals done anyway! Her issues will cause her problems in college, and if she has a documented disability, she qualifies for accommodations which can include extra testing time, materials and tests in larger font, etc. The disability support office of the college cannot request accommodations without formal documentation, so you might want to do it for this reason.

 

Agreeing here.  Calvin has accommodations for university exams - they make all the difference.

 

[mckive6]

She prefers the Eastern half of the country, to around Illinois. She would consider a school that sounds like a great fit outside of that area.  She is now looking at schools in Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts.  

 

Regentrude, so even if she has a 504 in high school, this won't be enough?  If so, then we'll do the eval.   

[regentrude]

Regentrude, so even if she has a 504 in high school, this won't be enough?  If so, then we'll do the eval.   

 

You should check with the disability support services office of the college to find out what documentation they require. It probably varies from school to school.

You can inquire about this now, even before she is applying.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Try putting her info into the search engine at College Confidential. That one is my favorite so far because it's very tweakable. You can indicate activities ,scores, majors, region of the country, etc and then weight how important each factor is.

[mjbucks1]

We have heard several college admissions people (even at ivy league schools) say that they are not overly concerned if a child is "lopsided" with regards to test scores (high English, low math).  While I think it is a good idea to retest (with accommodations if possible), I would not let that hold her back from applying to a school she is interested in, especially with the challenging courses and great AP scores she has!  I think I would also explain on the application her eye issues.  This is a challenge she has had to deal with and it will give a more complete picture of her academic abilities.  Good luck with your search!!!

[angela in ohio]

I would include information about her visual impairment in yoru counselor letter, so that the colleges can understand that when they look at her scores.

 

Remember that (roughly) 25% of the students admitted to a school had lower than the 25th percent mark on their scores. My dd is one of them. She had other positive attributes and good math grades in college calculus and statistics.

 

I can't help with specific schools, but I would encourage you to have her apply to a few scores that are a bit of stretch; my dd was pleasantly surprised! :)

[JanetC]

If you're going to be borderline on test scores, you're going to want to explain them in the counselors letter as has already been suggested.

 

Focus on colleges that have acceptance rates greater than 50%. You want places where are looking more for reasons to admit someone rather than reasons to deny someone.

[bibiche]

There are lots of schools that are test optional, and Hampshire won't even accept SAT/ACT.  

[snowbeltmom]

Has your daughter spoken to any of the coaches at the schools she is considering? At many Div III schools, the coaches are given slots by admission. If your daughter has not reached out to coaches, she should do that asap as many of the slots have been or will be accounted for very soon at those schools.

[TechWife]

She prefers the Eastern half of the country, to around Illinois. She would consider a school that sounds like a great fit outside of that area.  She is now looking at schools in Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts.  

 

Regentrude, so even if she has a 504 in high school, this won't be enough?  If so, then we'll do the eval.   

 

Not Regentrude, but I have familiarity with the process due to my son's needs. 

 

 

Colleges/universities do not accept 504 Plans or IEP's as documentation of a student's need for accommodations. When in K-12, students fall under IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act), which guarantees a free and appropriate education. This act does not apply to post secondary education, as going to college is not a right. University students fall under ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), which only requires that the institution give the same access to those with disabilities that they do to those without disabilities. 

 

When you are looking at universities, look for information from their disability services office. I've seen this office called Student Disability Services (SDS) and Office of Disability Services (ODS) - there are several other ways it could be worded as well. But, generally, you are looking for an office that handles disability services. Their website will give you a general idea of what type of documentation they need. Generally, you apply to the university and then, once admitted, apply for accommodations. Prior to admission  you can call the ODS and ask them things like "Is your office able to offer large print textbooks, classroom materials and tests to students who qualify? What documentation would you need her to send?" It is not necessary to identify your student by name when making these types of inquiries. 

[TechWife]

I would include information about her visual impairment in yoru counselor letter, so that the colleges can understand that when they look at her scores.

 

 

 

I do not recommend this at all. Disability information should not be disclosed prior to admission. There may be a very rare exception, but this isn't one of them. 

[plansrme]

Berry College in Rome, Georgia, about an hour north of Atlanta.. Div III, and a beautiful campus. Everyone I have known who goes there loves it. It would be a wonderful place to run XC.

[JanetC]

I do not recommend this at all. Disability information should not be disclosed prior to admission. There may be a very rare exception, but this isn't one of them.

In general, if you do not explain the differences between class grades and standardized test scores, the adcom will have to guess. They may guess that her math grades are wildly inflated. They may guess that she is just bad at standardized testing. You have no control.

 

Depending on the explanations, you may or may not want them to guess. If my child needed a ton of support, or if the disability had a negative stigma attached to it, I would probably not disclose the problem. It may make the student seem like more trouble than it's worth to admit.

 

However, if your explanation shows that your student (a) shows drastic improvements with accomodations and (b) that those accomodations were not a huge amount of work for school staff, then an explanation is probably better than letting the adcom guess. But, your explanation should definitely cover both (a) and (b), that a little help goes a long way. You don't want to do anything that hints that the student might need tons of hand-holding to squeak out C's, or that they would fall apart once away from intense school and home support systems.

 

The other thing to consider is the type of school (public, private), and whether they have a reputation for being accomdative for disabilities, in deciding whether or not to disclose.

[TechWife]

However, if your explanation shows that your student (a) shows drastic improvements with accomodations and (b) that those accomodations were not a huge amount of work for school staff, then an explanation is probably better than letting the adcom guess. But, your explanation should definitely cover both (a) and (b), that a little help goes a long way. You don't want to do anything that hints that the student might need tons of hand-holding to squeak out C's, or that they would fall apart once away from intense school and home support systems.

 

The other thing to consider is the type of school (public, private), and whether they have a reputation for being accomdative for disabilities, in deciding whether or not to disclose.

 

 

I think it's fine to disclose a reason behind a lower standardized math score if the student was temporarily ill on the day of the exam, or if there had been a recent event such as a car accident or death in the family that had an adverse effect on the test scores. 

 

In cases such as the OP has, though, it is a long term disability that could have been addressed prior to the testing so that accommodations could be available during the exam. Right now, due to lack of documentation, the student doesn't have any testing accommodations and her score demonstrates her ability without accommodations. Unless this student is appropriately tested and obtains documentation that is acceptable to the university, there will not be any accommodations in the university setting. The scores, therefore, are an accurate indication of how the student might be expected to perform at the university and are valid for consideration in the admission process. 

 

Faced with a letter such as you describe, the admissions counselor is  just as likely to believe that accommodations were given inappropriately at the high school level and that the end result was grade inflation. In other words, making such a statement could backfire. 

[mckive6]

Thanks Plansrme. Berry College looks good, and fits what she is looking for.

[JanetC]

Faced with a letter such as you describe, the admissions counselor is  just as likely to believe that accommodations were given inappropriately at the high school level and that the end result was grade inflation. In other words, making such a statement could backfire. 

 

High schools do not give accommodations without testing or documentation, either. Explaining why the testing was good enough for the high school but not for the college board could be part of the counselor's letter (again, if the OP even decides to mention it).

 

I have to say that maybe the OP was even given bad information: An eye specialist should be able to document an eye problem even if they are not an educational psychologist. The college board website does not say that neuropsych reports are required for all disabilities: specifically, "Most visual disabilities are diagnosed by ophthalmologists or optometrists."

 

https://www.collegeboard.org/students-with-disabilities/documentation-guidelines/visual-impairments

 

There is no reason to believe that the disability could not be documented for the college with the same diagnosis that was used with the high school.

[mckive6]

When my dd was diagnosed with Convergence Insuffiency, a letter from the doctor was sent to the College Board . Our request was denied. We received a letter stating neuropsychological testing was needed. The school 504 is based on the doctors letter.

 

Pauline

[JanetC]

When my dd was diagnosed with Convergence Insuffiency, a letter from the doctor was sent to the College Board . Our request was denied. We received a letter stating neuropsychological testing was needed. The school 504 is based on the doctors letter.

 

Pauline

 

Sorry that happened to you! I have definitely heard that the college board is difficult to work with when you want accommodations.

[MerryAtHope]

Sorry that happened to you! I have definitely heard that the college board is difficult to work with when you want accommodations.

 

I found ACT much easier to work with (and faster at giving you a response) than college board.

[GoodGrief]

My daughter is a runner too, and has applied to a few Christian colleges and spoken to the cross country coaches. Check out Hope College and Calvin College in Michigan, and Messiah College in Pennsylvania. People there have been super nice in communicating with my daughter.

[mckive6]

Gr8lander, thanks for the suggestions.  She has contacted Messiah College, and we'll check out the others.