How to help my oldest find good grad schools. Slightly ot.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I know this is slightly OT, but I know that there are people out here who are in academia that might be able to help. 

 

My oldest kid is graduating in December a semester early in Biology.  He is interested in Evolutionary Biology and Ecology.  He is working on applying to grad schools for fall 2016 but it getting bogged down in trying to find programs. His advisor has been pretty busy and things are getting time critical for him, so I thought I'd see what resources I could find for him so that he doesn't stall until he can talk to her.  He has talked to a program at one state university - not a flagship university by any means - and they had him for a visit already.  But he knows he needs to branch out and reach higher. 

 

He is graduating in December with a BS in Biology, minor in Classics from Hope College.  (A semester early.)  He has a 3.82 GPA, GRE scores in the 90-95 percentile (don't have the scores with me offhand), has done 3 REUs, is co-author on a paper with his professor that has been submitted for publication and is under review.  For two years, his REU experience was doing DNA analysis of tulip trees comparing genetic diversity between Eastern US and Eastern Asia populations (this is the project where he has co-authorship.)  Last summer, he did field work documenting bird species at a wetlands restoration.

 

Anyone know of some good Evolutionary Biology/Ecology Programs?  Where he can find info so that he can be looking at various professors' research to determine if he that is where he wants to apply?  He is much more interested in animals than plants, but liked the genomics lab work he did. 

[JanetC]

Where he can find info so that he can be looking at various professors' research to determine if he that is where he wants to apply?

Google scholar (scholar.google.com)

 

He can enter topics of study to see who's publishing, or professors to see what they're publishing and/or who is citing them.

[Momling]

Grad school is less about program quality and more about what professor to work with. He should be thinking about which papers he found interesting and then contact the professor and apply to that university. When my advisor moved from Yale to UCLA, I had the option of moving with him. That's how tied to one person or lab or sub field a grad student can be. I chose to stay, but ended up switching sub fields because he had left.

[Dmmetler]

based on the last two SSAR/JMIH conferences with a kid who is really into Ecology:

 

Ecology:

Drexel

Purdue

Penn State

Cornell

University of Miami

 

Evolutionary Biology (she doesn't like this as much, so we don't tend to go unless it's a plenary or keynote):

Kansas University

 

 

 

If you check conferences, often the programs and abstracts are online. Many also have hashtags for Twitter and if you search there, you can find out who presented and contact the grad students directly. DD has yet to meet a grad student who isn't dying to talk about their research, and usually that also can give a good impression about the research advisor as well (so if he is more comfortable with one who is more a co-researcher vs one that is more hands off, that may give an idea of where to go.

[Barb_]

Try this:

 

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/search?program=top-biological-sciences-programs&name=&specialty=ecology-rankings&zip=

[Barb_]

Grad school is less about program quality and more about what professor to work with. He should be thinking about which papers he found interesting and then contact the professor and apply to that university. When my advisor moved from Yale to UCLA, I had the option of moving with him. That's how tied to one person or lab or sub field a grad student can be. I chose to stay, but ended up switching sub fields because he had left.

This is very true and the approach my older daughters have been taking.

[Gwen in VA]

He should be talking to --

 

His academic advisor

Any profs he has done research with

Anybody he has had biology internships with

 

Those in the field will be the best source of information. Those in the field will know things like "good rankings but the profs never let the students out of the lab" and "this school rarely graduates students in less than 7 years" and even "this school is great if you want to go into academia, but if you are interested in industry you might want to look at this slightly lower-ranked school that has incredible industry connections."

 

He has hopefully made many connections in his field over the past few years in college. Now is the time to make use of them!

 

[flyingiguana]

Grad school is less about program quality and more about what professor to work with. He should be thinking about which papers he found interesting and then contact the professor and apply to that university. When my advisor moved from Yale to UCLA, I had the option of moving with him. That's how tied to one person or lab or sub field a grad student can be. I chose to stay, but ended up switching sub fields because he had left.

 

That said -- don't go to a place that has only one person you could imagine working with.  If personalities conflict, you might need an escape route.  And even if you get along great with your advisor, you don't want to be working in a vacuum with no other input.

 

Peterson's puts out a guide to grad schools: https://www.petersons.com/graduate-schools/grad-search-by-subject.aspx

I applied to grad school pretty much blindly with only Peterson's to refer to.  (My husband only applied to one school.  Chose it because it was the closest to home that had a program he wanted)

 

Large land grant universities are great for grad school in that area as there are a lot of resources and tons of faculty/students to interact with.  There are also a lot of opportunities for jobs and financial support.

 

 

Do not be overly swayed by rankings.  If a school is in the top twenty or so there will be little difference between the number one ranked vs the 10th and even further down.  I could probably list 10-20 schools off the top of my head based on graduates I know who have gone to those places for evolutionary biology/ecology.  They've all gotten fine educations.  I'm sure there are a lot of other places, though, that I just don't happen to know graduates of.  Many of the Univ CA schools are excellent, along with places like Univ IL, Univ MN (most of these are land grant universities), Duke, Cornell, U Chicago, U Arizona....  These are just ones I happen to know of (you'll notice a geographical bias).  Even places like Southern IL Univ put out some decent graduates.  There are all SORTS of places.  So at some point, you need to winnow them down.  Looking for a program that covers the specific areas of interest (ie -- people there publishing in that area) is what you need to do.  So looking at author lists of papers in the area and seeing where those people are based is perhaps a better way than asking for random lists.

 

Look for money.  Go to a school that offers the best financial deal (unless it's a really podunk place).  They actually want the student.  That's an important aspect of deciding which grad school to go to.  The student will be working closely with these people for years to come.  In that respect it's a little more like a job hiring than a college admissions.

 

And admissions to grad school can be kind of weird.  I had a couple safeties that didn't even let me in.  But my "reach" schools were falling all over themselves to recruit me. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

Thanks for the input.  I am very disappointed in my son's advisor.  These are conversations they should have been having last spring.  Even though he works for her, he had trouble getting an appointment with her to talk about these things.  No one mentioned that it might have been a good idea to take a Biology GRE subject test.  No one mentioned that he should have already had his list done and been talking with professors at prospective schools by now. No one told him that higher ranked schools had a December 1 deadline rather than a January 1 deadline.  He had a meeting with her late last week and she was not very helpful.  Not much info an where to apply that he isn't already thinking about.  She said to search NSF grants to see who is doing what.  He is just so overwhelmed.  He feels like he is looking for a needle in a haystack. 

 

So last night, he called me in a panic.   He has 2 days to get the information on where he is applying to his recommendors since they want lead time.   He is still having trouble tracking down the professor that he worked with for 2 years to ask for a letter of recommendation.  This professor is on sabbatical in China right now.  I hope the Biology secretary can help track him down since he hasn't answered his emails.  It would look really bad if he didn't have a LOR from this one. 

 

So far, he only has 4 schools on his list: UW Madison (2 professors that interest him), University of Chicago (4 professors, but he is very intimidated), Indiana University (he likes this because he is applying to the program and rotates areas the first year before he chooses a specialty) and UW Milwaukee (only because his ex-girlfriend was still in the picture when he started and that is where she is attending grad school and he has already talked to professors there and they are falling all over him.) 

 

He was so overwhelmed that he thought he should reconsider starting grad school next fall and apply for fall of 2017.  I told him that could be plan B if things don't work out right now.   

[Gwen in VA]

Lots of students work for a year or two before starting grad school. This is not unusual, and if that is what ends up happening with your son it's FINE! (Keep breathing!)

 

Your son's school sounds amazingly disorganized and unsupportive. I'm sorry!

 

Taking the subject GRE should have been discussed with students last spring -- so they could spend the summer studying!

 

It sounds as if your son may need to find a job for after graduation and jump-start the process next summer. Before he leaves campus this spring, he should make sure that he has a plan of action about which schools to apply to and who will write the recs (in addition to GRE studying). Contacting profs after graduation is much more difficult.

 

If it makes you feel better, my niece just graduated last spring with fantastic grades and unbelievable internships from a tippy-top LAC in biology. She was unsure which subfield she wants to head into, so she found a job in one area she was contemplating. She is working this year and is currently in the process of sending off grad school applications.

 

Taking a year or two off between college and grad school is not a sign of anything wrong -- just that a student needs to figure out where he/she is heading before taking the plunge!

[dirty ethel rackham]

Well, ds is graduating in December - a semester early.  Perhaps, in retrospect, that wasn't a good choice, but it definitely is cheaper for us.  I am not sure how much of this is disorganization on the part of the school and how much is due to ds thinking he had it covered because, although he won't admit it, his plan was to apply to the same school as then girlfriend as he was sure she was the one.  I think there may have been some help on campus, but he was relying on her.  I am just surprised because he had been taking care of things and been so independent these last few years, that I am surprised this all fell apart. 

 

While I do realize that many kids do take a year off before applying to grad school, I am worried about my kid.  He seems so lost since gf broke up with him and needs to be busy and needs to be moving forward.  He has NO social life here. 

 

The good news is that he has been in contact with several professors at 4 schools and has the ball rolling on those.  He has a couple more in the works.  We will just have to see how the cards play out. 

[klmama]

FWIW, I know very few people who went on to grad school that had any real guidance or support as they worked out the process.  I think the fact that your ds is looking into things on his own and has a couple of interested professors (even if he doesn't go there) speaks volumes about his abilities. 

 

As for the deadline, that may be more flexible than you think.  My grad school department was considered sixth in the nation in that field and the university had an early deadline, yet there were excellent people who applied late and were still accepted into the program.  It won't hurt to apply where he really wants to go, even if he misses the deadline.  The worst they can do is tell him to apply next semester.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[G5052]

Yes, research online but also go. I decided to go to graduate school about a week before the deadline. There was no way I could get everything together in time, but the chairman of the graduate program met with me, looked over my transcript that I brought, and admitted me on the spot.

 

You're going to spend a lot of time with these people and feeling comfortable with them is as important as the academics. Will he have some professors that aren't so great for various reasons? Of course, but the key is to have basically a solid department of professors interested in areas he likes that he can work with.

 

I went to an "upper middle" state school for both the department and convenience to my work which was both paying for it and offering the facilities for my research.

 

I ADORED the chairman of the graduate program from the day that I interviewed until the day I graduated. He was well-rounded and yet demanding. Double degrees in math and Latin, and truly the best in the department. But I wasn't terribly interested in his area although I took everything he taught. 

 

I went with a professor for my dissertation in an area I was very interested in, and that was a horrible mistake. He was gruff and uninterested in anything not related to his own research. I had a lot of problems with him and finally bagged it after a particularly bad meeting with him. I took my M.S. and went on with life.

 

In retrospect, I could have found something I would have enjoyed with the chairman of the graduate program. Maybe not my favorite, but something good. If I had done that, I probably would have finished it.

Edited November 20, 2015 by G5052

[dirty ethel rackham]

Oh, ds will definitely go talk to the people before deciding.  BTW, the professor on sabbatical in China finally got back to ds and will write the LOR.  Things are looking up.