When people behave badly

[beansprouts]

...and they happen to be Christians, why is it always the "Christian" part that gets identified first? Isn't bad behavior universal?

[Soph the vet]

Because we battle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities.....in other words because there is an unseen spiritual battle going on.

Yes, I believe bad behavior, or as the Bible puts it a sin nature, is universal (there is no one righteous, no not one).

I think the "Christian" part gets noticed first because it smacks of hypocrisy. When I name the name of Christ as my Savior, do I lord it over others and seem holier than thou OR am I humble and thankful that Jesus saved a sinner such as I? When a Christian acts like the former and then "falls from grace" it was probably due them and they are labeled hypocrit and in my opinion rightfully so.

[MelissaM]

Because one's religion is typically considered a driving force. Bad behavior is used to "prove" that one is either a bad Christian or that ALL Christians behave as poorly as the original offender.

[GreenKitty]

Yes, I think so.

[Kris]

...and they happen to be Christians, why is it always the "Christian" part that gets identified first? Isn't bad behavior universal?

 

Well, for me, if they happen to be Christian *and* behave badly, the "Christian" part gets identified first if they've made made a big point of the fact that first and foremost they *are* Christian.

 

Yes, bad behavior is universal. But in these specific cases, I feel like I didn't pass some kind of test, and once I've been identified as "unworthy," anything goes.

[Jenny in Florida]

. . . that the one weird, academically struggling homeschooler gets pointed out as somehow representative of the whole community. The person pointing the finger has a problem with the group as a whole and exploits that one "failure" to justify his or her dislike and suspicion.

 

In other cases, it may be because those of us who are not Christian and often find ourselves on the receiving end of so much disapproval and patronizing from some folks who wear their religion on their sleeves. In that situation, it is a little hard not to have that moment of "gotcha" when one of those folks stumbles.

 

Edited to add: I feel I should say, though, that I belong to a denomination that definitely has its share of kooks and people who make me a bit embarassed. So, I'm the first one in line to tell others that you can't hold an entire religious tradition responsible for the bad behavior of an individual member.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I hadn't noticed that it does, unless the person behaving badly has made A Point of their Christianity.

 

Anyone who boasts about anything is setting themselves up for a fall.

[beansprouts]

But in these specific cases, I feel like I didn't pass some kind of test, and once I've been identified as "unworthy," anything goes.

 

What does "anything goes" mean?

[Kris]

What does "anything goes" mean?

 

It means they seem to think it's okay to "behave badly."

[lynn]

Because sometimes the bad behavior of Christians is most of the time something that shouldn't be. If you are going to proclaim to be a Christian then you should display that love, patience, grace and acceptance that you are taught in the bible. I am tired of Christians using "I'm not perfect just forgiven" as a fall back when they do something unkind to others or to excuse their attitude or behavior.

[beansprouts]

If you are going to proclaim to be a Christian then you should display that love, patience, grace and acceptance that you are taught in the bible.

 

These are in the Bible, but aren't they also pretty much universal values? Therefore anyone who espouses these values, but fails to practice them perfectly is a hypocrite, no?

[beansprouts]

When you hear someone is a Christian, but know nothing else about them, do you form expectations about how they should and will behave and think?

[VaKim]

When you hear someone is a Christian, but know nothing else about them, do you form expectations about how they should and will behave and think?

 

As a Christian myself, I definitely do. The Bible itself gives us guidelines with which to identify fellow believers.

I do realize, however, that there are those who have their own ideas of what a Christian should look like, outside of Scripture.

[beansprouts]

As a Christian myself, I definitely do. The Bible itself gives us guidelines with which to identify fellow believers.

I do realize, however, that there are those who have their own ideas of what a Christian should look like, outside of Scripture.

 

Sure, but I am not so proud as to think I "have it all together" either ;)

 

The question I was really trying to ask is what picture non-Christians conjure in their minds when they hear a person is a Christian.

[Laura Corin]

The question I was really trying to ask is what picture non-Christians conjure in their minds when they hear a person is a Christian.

 

Her father was a Church of England vicar. I walked in on him yelling at his wife for (yes really) having too many dishcloths out in the kitchen at the same time. Apparently there was a magic number that she had exceeded. I thought badly of him because a) it was unpleasant behaviour and b) it contrasted so markedly with what he preached.

 

The key to me is the contrast. If he had been a humanist, Muslim, atheist, Buddhist .... and had specifically talked about codes for behaving decently to others, which he then failed to live up to, then I would have thought equally badly of him.

 

I hope that helps.

 

Laura

[VaKim]

Sure, but I am not so proud as to think I "have it all together" either ;)

 

The question I was really trying to ask is what picture non-Christians conjure in their minds when they hear a person is a Christian.

 

Well, I am perfect, but wasn't aware that you were asking non Christians.

(Oops. Lightening just struck...) :D

[beansprouts]

Well, I am perfect, but wasn't aware that you were asking non Christians.

(Oops. Lightening just struck...) :D

 

I feel so unworthy... :lol:

 

I have a question in my mind, but I am apparently very clumsy about verbalizing it. Maybe I should have thought it through longer before starting the thread. :tongue_smilie:

[beansprouts]

The key to me is the contrast. If he had been a humanist, Muslim, atheist, Buddhist .... and had specifically talked about codes for behaving decently to others, which he then failed to live up to, then I would have thought equally badly of him.

 

 

I think this is fair. How has this experience influenced your perception of other Christians?

[Kate in Arabia]

Well, Cindy, this very same question has been plaguing American Muslims for years, lol.

 

I think there is a combination of issues here. First you have those who profess to be religious, but then do things that appear to be against that religion, like Laura was talking about. So when, for example, a conservative republic senator gets caught having a homosexual affair, people harp on his conservativeness and "republicaness" because it is behavior at odds with what people perceive as standard for that group (or what the perpetrator himself professes).

 

That I see as dependent on the person in question. But the other issue I think comes from either a lack of exposure to a range of Christians, or enough bad experiences to then color the general perception of Christians and what they do. So if you have often been ill-treated by Christians in the past, you might focus on the current person's Christianity even if that isn't a factor.

 

For me, personally, I was raised Christian and the vast majority of my extended family is Christian, so I really don't have (don't think I have) overwhelming negative connotations associated with Christianity/Christians.

 

Is that at all what you were driving at, or am I totally off?

[Laura Corin]

I think this is fair. How has this experience influenced your perception of other Christians?

 

Let me try to work on a balanced reply.

 

Laura

[Confuzzled]

This is a really good book that addresses what young nonchristians think about Christianity and why:

 

unChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity... and Why it Matters by David Kinnaman and Gabe Lyons

 

This was a really thought provoking book for me.

 

Kris

[Jenny in Florida]

When you hear someone is a Christian, but know nothing else about them, do you form expectations about how they should and will behave and think?

 

Well, it depends on just how ostentatiously that person proclaims his/her Christianity.

 

We know a lot of Christians who are quiet and modest about their faith and who are really wonderful people. For the most part, for those people, being Christian is just one part of who they are. The ones we've met who make their Christianity the most prominent aspect of their personalities and character tend to be pretty insular and off-putting (like the folks who seem to be giving Mom to Aly such a hard time right now).

[3lilreds in NC]

Because sometimes the bad behavior of Christians is most of the time something that shouldn't be. If you are going to proclaim to be a Christian then you should display that love, patience, grace and acceptance that you are taught in the bible. I am tired of Christians using "I'm not perfect just forgiven" as a fall back when they do something unkind to others or to excuse their attitude or behavior.

 

I agree with you - I don't like it when people use this as an excuse either. What they should say is, "I'm sorry, I behaved like an @ss."

 

The kicker is that even when you're trying to follow Christ, you still mess up. Being a Christian isn't magic; you don't become instantly perfect. As a Christian, I still suffer from foot-in-mouth disease. I'm still impatient, although I'm getting better (v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y). And stupid people still annoy me no end, but God's showing me more and more all the time that it's probably *not* the other people who are the stupid ones. :D This is where the "not perfect, just forgiven" stuff comes in. It should not be an excuse - more an explanation. It's too flippant, though, and when you've hurt someone it's *not* what you should say.

 

So - not trying to defend Christians because you're right - we should do all the things you said. It's just that we're still human and there's no way we can avoid making mistakes sometimes.

[Sammy]

I am tired of Christians using "I'm not perfect just forgiven" as a fall back when they do something unkind to others or to excuse their attitude or behavior.

 

It does become something of a mantra for some, doesn't it?

[asta]

I don't know if this is what you are asking, but I'll give it a go... I've used Catholicism because it is the one sect of Christianity I know the most about.

 

I have never understood why people join an exclusive group with strict rules and are then surprised when someone calls them on behavior that is not in line with the rules of said group.

 

Anyone who self-identifies with a religion ("Hi, I'm Joan, and my Catholic faith is important to me" as opposed to "Hi, I'm Joan") is going to be held to a different set of rules than a person who does not.

 

The Roman Catholic Church has a doctrine. It is set in stone, and not "open to interpretation". Anyone can read it, as the The Holy See has been online since the internet went global. Every once in a blue moon, a pope (along with his council) tweaks the current doctrine, but it is never by much, and nothing happens quickly in Catholicism.

 

Now, it doesn't matter if a person is an Italian Catholic, a Bolivian Catholic, or a Catholic in the United States; the rules are the same. Without fail, however, one will see people professing to be Roman Catholics who not only disagree with the Church's stated doctrine, but openly flaunt their disregard of it's teachings.

 

Common sense would dictate - "Why doesn't that person stop calling themselves a Catholic? Why doesn't that person convert to a less restrictive religion? That person isn't following the tenets of Catholicism. That person is a hypocrite."

 

And common sense would be correct. There are many religions that do not have the strict guidelines that Catholicism calls for. No one is "forced" to be Catholic.

 

It isn't a matter of going to confession, or being judged in heaven, not on earth -- it is a doctrinal matter. If a person does not wish to live their life according to the rules set by the group to which they have, essentially professed allegiance... what's the point?

 

 

asta

[dangermom]

Because when you openly claim Christ you are held to a higher standard. I don't think that is wrong. I think most people realize that no one is perfect but there are some people who take that grace to the extreme. If I publicly say "This is what I believe" then shouldn't I be trying awfully hard to live up to the standard I set?

 

We are not perfect, just forgiven and yet we may be the only "Jesus" some people will ever see. I don't think most people want perfection but everyone wants kindness.

I think this is exactly right. I can't think of anything better to add, so :iagree:

[Melinda in VT]

Trying to tread gently here, but I have seen the opposite happen as well, mostly here on the board. (I hang with pretty liberal people in real life. Even the Christians I know tend to be many-paths-up-the-mountain people.)

 

I've seen statements by Christians like "Something like that shouldn't happen in a Christian school" or "and these were all Christian kids!" or "it's a great group. The kids are all Christian" etc. Statements that to me imply that the writer thinks honesty, decency, kindness, sexual morality, etc., are more likely to be found among Christians than among non-Christians.

 

If Christians set themselves up as better than, it only makes sense that non-Christians would notice when they fall.

[HollyinNNV]

...and they happen to be Christians, why is it always the "Christian" part that gets identified first? Isn't bad behavior universal?

 

When someone chooses not to be something, they sometimes automatically think that the people that did choose to be that thing are judging everyone around that didn't make the choice. So, then when that person who chose to be a Christian makes a mistake, the person who chose not to be a Christian feels some vindication and wants to let the whole world know, "Hey, I made the right decision. Person X decided in a different direction and now they are going to pay the price for judging me (even it was only perceived judgement).

 

I think the same thing plays out in homeschooling. The X's homeschool. The Y's don't and feel judged by the X's. The X's have a problem with a kid. The Y's feel relieved to tell everyone about the X homeschooling family that failed.

 

Sometimes the judgment is actual and sometimes perceived. But the feeling of being judged is often hard to shake off.

 

JMHO,

Holly

[kalanamak]

 

The question I was really trying to ask is what picture non-Christians conjure in their minds when they hear a person is a Christian.

 

It would depend on how I heard it. If it comes up in a natural setting (like someone mentions they are going to church and hence can't meet that early) that is pretty neutral with me, although I register in my mind to not bring up the exciting news that a X-million year old cockroach fossil has been found. One doesn't wish to offend. If they proclaim it rather out of context, I am wary. I've worked in offices over the years, and over and over the big proclaimers are not trustworthy: cheat on time cards, claim neck injury from phone use on the LAST day of employment, have cheatin', beatin' husbands that scare us at work, etc.

 

I'm fond of a saying "The differences within the sexes is greater than between the sexes". I take it to mean that a man and a woman who are both honest, decent and true have more in common than such a man and a man who is a rat. I think the same about religious people. There are scoundrels who hide in religion. I've met them, and I've met the middle-aged women they convinced to marry them (I recall one woman I'd seen for years who suddenly decided to get married. I was so shocked, I blurted out "are you sure?" Oh yes, he's been in my church for years. The next time I saw her he came in with her, literally banging the chair with his cane and raising his voice at me to "do something" about her menopause (she was 60 and over it). He meant her crying. Prior to that I'd never seen her be anything but witty and cheery and calm. She sat on the exam table, never met my eye, and cried the whole time. I never saw them again. He moved her to another town. I still worry about her).

 

There are well-intended people who turn to religion for solace from their chaotic lives, and it may look nice at times, but when someone is literally screaming and crying because the staff had a cake party on her day off ("I thought we were a TEAM"), I have less tolerance for them telling me, smiling sweetly, that I really need to go to church, how wonderful it is, how great it is, how exciting it is. I know that woman is bipolar, and while I wouldn't shun someone who is religious, the next person who crows on about it like her I will naturally keep at arms length a little longer than usual. That is human nature.

 

I have not been impressed with the religion my husband came from. If you aren't in "it" you are shunned or discounted. His wider family either has nothing to do with our son and us, or, as a letter I got yesterday, talks with glee about how neat it will be when he's old enough to go on their mission-trips to South America. I wonder how they'd feel if I took their kid to an ashram in India.

 

In summary, if the person is appropriate, it is just another fact about them, like liking needlepoint or going fishing every weekend, but if they aren't, it can certainly be a sticking point with me, as the Holier Than Thou attitude makes for poor work relations. I'm all for getting on and doing our jobs.

[dangermom]

I guess that whole "a city set on a hill cannot be hid" thing works both ways.

[beansprouts]

I agree with you - I don't like it when people use this as an excuse either. What they should say is, "I'm sorry, I behaved like an @ss."

 

:lol:

 

You know I actually used that precise phrase before...

[Kris]

I agree with you - I don't like it when people use this as an excuse either. What they should say is, "I'm sorry, I behaved like an @ss."

 

The kicker is that even when you're trying to follow Christ, you still mess up. Being a Christian isn't magic; you don't become instantly perfect. As a Christian, I still suffer from foot-in-mouth disease. I'm still impatient, although I'm getting better (v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y). And stupid people still annoy me no end, but God's showing me more and more all the time that it's probably *not* the other people who are the stupid ones. :D This is where the "not perfect, just forgiven" stuff comes in. It should not be an excuse - more an explanation. It's too flippant, though, and when you've hurt someone it's *not* what you should say.

 

So - not trying to defend Christians because you're right - we should do all the things you said. It's just that we're still human and there's no way we can avoid making mistakes sometimes.

 

I didn't take the question that way, which is probably why my answer didn't make sense. I interpreted "behaving badly" in a more, I dunno, "intentional" sense and answered from my experience with people who profess to be Christians turning around and flat-out lying to me or behaving unethically in a business arrangement. It seemed that the "do unto others" thing didn't apply if I didn't go to their church.

[beansprouts]

If Christians set themselves up as better than, it only makes sense that non-Christians would notice when they fall.

 

So, would you say you have a general perception that Christians think they are better than other people?

[PariSarah]

Including an outsider's unfair and unreasonable expectation that Christians should be better than other people.

 

Because, well, Christians should be better than other people. The standard is absolute holiness. It's illogical and hypocritical and just plain dumb for non-Christians to hold that expectation, since they don't hold it for themselves. But it's what we're called to nonetheless. Even though we're screw-ups, we're screw-ups that are called to strive for perfection.

 

I think Holly has a great point, too, about how any pursuit of excellence is threatening, and it causes resentment. That doesn't explain all instances of resentment against Christians--sometimes Christians are just a$$es and cause ill will wherever they go. But even Mother Theresa had her detractors.

[Tammyla]

Well said.:001_smile:

 

Including an outsider's unfair and unreasonable expectation that Christians should be better than other people.

 

Because, well, Christians should be better than other people. The standard is absolute holiness. It's illogical and hypocritical and just plain dumb for non-Christians to hold that expectation, since they don't hold it for themselves. But it's what we're called to nonetheless. Even though we're screw-ups, we're screw-ups that are called to strive for perfection.

 

I think Holly has a great point, too, about how any pursuit of excellence is threatening, and it causes resentment. That doesn't explain all instances of resentment against Christians--sometimes Christians are just a$$es and cause ill will wherever they go. But even Mother Theresa had her detractors.

[Melinda in VT]

So, would you say you have a general perception that Christians think they are better than other people?

 

Well, keep in mind that I consider myself a Christian, although a hanging onto the far left by my fingernails type. ;) (In church almost every Sunday, but with some serious theological questions.)

 

I think that *some* Christians think they are better than other people. I think using Christian as a descriptor of anything other than one's theology/church affiliation/holiday practices indicates that the speaker think Christians are better (or worse, depending on tone) than others.

 

For example, if someone says "X is a Christian" and what they mean is "X is honest, kind, moral" that indicates they think Christians are more likely to be those things than atheists or Jews or Hindus, etc.

[Catherine]

For me, knowing several quiet, kindly, decent people who self-identify as Christian really helps when the other kinds come along.

 

The other kinds are people who are eager to proclaim their religiousness, yet, behind the scenes, don't really seem very kind, generous, or loving.

 

I think that this is where the stereotype of the hypocritical Christian comes from-those people who are so eager to proselytize and then turn out to be not very nice people behind the scenes. I don't believe the stereotype applies to a majority of Christians, not by a long shot, but it's just that those people are more noticeable and vocal.

 

Who was it that pointed out that a Christian should be noticeable by their actions?

[dangermom]

Do you mean St. Francis of Assisi--"Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words."

[beansprouts]

Do you mean St. Francis of Assisi--"Preach the gospel at all times. If necessary, use words."

 

I like that :001_smile:

[Jenny in Atl]

Including an outsider's unfair and unreasonable expectation that Christians should be better than other people.

 

Because, well, Christians should be better than other people. The standard is absolute holiness. It's illogical and hypocritical and just plain dumb for non-Christians to hold that expectation, since they don't hold it for themselves. But it's what we're called to nonetheless. Even though we're screw-ups, we're screw-ups that are called to strive for perfection.

 

I think Holly has a great point, too, about how any pursuit of excellence is threatening, and it causes resentment. That doesn't explain all instances of resentment against Christians--sometimes Christians are just a$$es and cause ill will wherever they go. But even Mother Theresa had her detractors.

 

But can't this be said for all the other major faiths as well? I have seen "holier than thou" attitudes from those professing other faiths. I think all people walk a tight rope when they elevate themselves over others by claiming the "right" faith, a better education, etc.

[beansprouts]

But can't this be said for all the other major faiths as well? I have seen "holier than thou" attitudes from those professing other faiths. I think all people walk a tight rope when they elevate themselves over others by claiming the "right" faith, a better education, etc.

 

Would you say, then, that it is fair to expect that anybody professing a faith (of any kind) will elevate themselves?

[OnTheBrink]

These are in the Bible, but aren't they also pretty much universal values? Therefore anyone who espouses these values, but fails to practice them perfectly is a hypocrite, no?

 

Anyone who espouses these values and intentionally practices the opposite is a hypocrite. There's a difference between stumbling in the practice of our faith, repenting of it and trying to do better, and flat out lying. OR trying to come across as one thing and practicing the opposite.

 

As Christians, we're called to keep each other accountable to the Word and to our faith, to rebuke and yet encourage. We're NOT called to condemn or judge each other and we're definitely not called to judge or condemn non-believers. That is the sole job of God himself. Accountability is done with love, judgment is not.

 

To answer the OP, it's socially acceptable to Christian-bash. It's in movies, TV, books, magazines. Few notice and fewer stand up against it. So, if a Christian stumbles, the world has a field day bashing Christianity. However, all this shouldn't be a shock. Jesus said the world will hate Christians, as the world hates Him.

 

It's frustrating, but when you look at the big picture and realize that this is nothing new nor nothing unexpected, it makes it a bit easier to contend with.

[PariSarah]

But can't this be said for all the other major faiths as well? I have seen "holier than thou" attitudes from those professing other faiths. I think all people walk a tight rope when they elevate themselves over others by claiming the "right" faith, a better education, etc.

 

That's why I broadened Holly's claims to "any pursuit of excellence." Homeschoolers, breastfeeders, gardeners, knitters . . . well, actually, I think knitters are just about the only group where I haven't met one! . . . but anyone who is involved in the pursuit of any kind of excellence risks coming across as holier-than-thou, whether or not they are. Likewise, they risk actually becoming judgmental and elitist because of their pursuit of excellence.

 

I would hate, though, for the pursuit of excellence, whether it be religious or practical, to be abandoned simply because it has its perils.

 

ETA: What I was trying to say in my first post, from a strictly Christian perspective, was that I have actually heard the voice of God speaking to me through an irrational and wrong-headed accusation from a non-Christian, and I believe that God is in the habit of doing such things. I have also heard irrational and wrong-headed accusations that were just, as best I could tell, irrational and wrong-headed. That was my main answer to the OP's question: whyever it is that some people hold a higher standard for Christians than seems reasonable, from God's perspective, their higher standard is not so unreasonable after all.

 

Is that the point you were trying to address, rather than my point about pursuing excellence? Am I in your same general ballpark, or have I missed what you were trying to say?

[beansprouts]

To answer the OP, it's socially acceptable to Christian-bash. It's in movies, TV, books, magazines. Few notice and fewer stand up against it. So, if a Christian stumbles, the world has a field day bashing Christianity.

 

This is something that I have noticed though I do not assume or expect others to behave this way ;) (The danger is once you start looking for persecution, you find it in the most benign occurrances, whether it truly exists or not.)

 

Every now and then we see a news article about children who are abused and neglected, and the media makes it a point to report that they are homeschooled, even though this fact has nothing at all to do with the situation. We have all asked why the family's educational choice must be identified at all. I think Christians are often treated this way.

 

During the time I was growing up I did experience abuse from a few specific groups of people. But maturity and perspective has taught me that people are people. Pride and arrogance are universal human weaknesses, and no matter who we are or what we profess as our core values we struggle with it. Fortunately, kindness, patience and grace tend to also be universal values.

[Parrothead]

Because sometimes the bad behavior of Christians is most of the time something that shouldn't be. If you are going to proclaim to be a Christian then you should display that love, patience, grace and acceptance that you are taught in the bible. I am tired of Christians using "I'm not perfect just forgiven" as a fall back when they do something unkind to others or to excuse their attitude or behavior.

:iagree:

[beansprouts]

That's why I broadened Holly's claims to "any pursuit of excellence." Homeschoolers, breastfeeders, gardeners, knitters . . . well, actually, I think knitters are just about the only group where I haven't met one! . . . but anyone who is involved in the pursuit of any kind of excellence risks coming across as holier-than-thou, whether or not they are. Likewise, they risk actually becoming judgmental and elitist because of their pursuit of excellence.

 

I would hate, though, for the pursuit of excellence, whether it be religious or practical, to be abandoned simply because it has its perils.

 

I agree on all points.

[beansprouts]

Because sometimes the bad behavior of Christians is most of the time something that shouldn't be.

 

I am picking on you again, just because Parrothead quoted you, and I had the chance to reread your post. :001_smile:

 

If the bad behavior of Christians "shouldn't be", does that mean it is acceptable for other groups to misbehave? If your perception is that Christians should be better than everybody else, that could be the reason for your dissappointment.

[Sammy]

(The danger is once you start looking for persecution, you find it in the most benign occurrances, whether it truly exists or not.)

 

Boy, ain't that the truth!

[TXMomof4]

As a Christian, I want for my life to be defined *by Christ*. However, the reality, my life is defined by my human-ness (is that a word?). The ideal is Christ, the reality is far short of that. The humility of being a Christian is lost in so many cases. I don't want to stand up and say "I'm a Christian, look at me." Unfortunately, even the most benign choices seem to be that sort of a proclamation these days. If I choose not to watch R movies, rather than being seen as an admission that I can't handle watching the sex, violence, etc. without it having an affect on me, it's seen as a proclamation of superiorty, and it may be for some people. To me it's admitting a weakness. Not a matter of pridefulness.

 

Anytime someone takes a stand on anything it is seen as a challenge to others who haven't chosen that stand, no matter how meek that person is. Homeschooling is a perfect example of the same. How many of us complain about friends who think we are indicting them for their choices of sending dc to school? Whether those words or thoughts ever cross our mind, the perception is there. It's human nature to look at another and say, "She thinks she's so good because she homeschools, well my dd can read better than hers. Who does she think she is?"

 

Unfortunately, the focus is on the people who fail. We never see that preacher who has fallen to sexual sin to know if his heart is broken, his soul is crying. We only see that he fell, he was a Christian and he shouldn't have. We don't have a focus on preachers who stand up there and admit their faults and weaknesses, because what kind of example are they? I think they'd be the best examples, but that's not what people want to see. Think of Paul - who describes himself as the worst of sinners, even when he was at the height of his "career". He never stood up and said do what I do because I'm a Christian. He said, do what I do, as you see me doing what Christ would do.

[Jenny in Atl]

 

Is that the point you were trying to address, rather than my point about pursuing excellence? Am I in your same general ballpark, or have I missed what you were trying to say?

 

Yes, one can strive to be the best (that they can be) w/o giving off the impression that they are some how of more value or closer to the answer than another. We each have our gifts, and we should excel in them to our fullest. But I often feel faith is used as a shield that can both be used to explain away wrongs and/or excuse them. On the other hand one w/o faith who errors, is often labeled by their lack of faith as well. I really think it's just an easy way to point fingers at each other, not matter the label.