Landlords -- whose responsibility is it to pay for cancelling a check

[flyingiguana]

So say a landlord sends the refund of the rental deposit to a tenant that has just moved out.  Say they claim they never received it.  A new check needs to be sent, but the old one needs to be cancelled.  This costs 30 dollars.

 

Who should pay for cancelling the check?

 

The address the ex-tenant gave was a temporary address "with friends".  It's not clear if the friends are even still living at that address, but there is probably reason to believe the mail carrier didn't realize the ex-tenant was even at that address.  (So they might not have delivered mail addressed to that name?)

 

So maybe the post office lost the check.  Or maybe the friends took it and can't be bothered to deliver it.

 

Is this a cost of doing business for the landlord?  Or is the ex-tenant responsible for paying for the check cancellation?

 

Is the landlord even responsible for issuing a second check?

[goldberry]

Normally the person issuing the check is the one responsible for cancelling it. May not be fair, but there it is.  You might make some different requirements for the second check if you think there is something fishy going on (such as they have to pick it up or sign for it.)

[Carol in Cal.]

Cost of doing business for the landlord.  It is the landlord's responsibility to deliver the check, and until it is delivered expenses belong to him.  Using some kind of signature requirement or delivery receipt service up front is a good move, particularly if the law sets deadlines on delivery of those funds, as it does in California.

[flyingiguana]

Cost of doing business for the landlord.  It is the landlord's responsibility to deliver the check, and until it is delivered expenses belong to him.  Using some kind of signature requirement or delivery receipt service up front is a good move, particularly if the law sets deadlines on delivery of those funds, as it does in California.

 

However, the law in our state says the clock starts ticking once a "valid" address has been given to the landlord.  This wasn't exactly a valid address, as it turns out.

 

The thing is, my guess is that the friends have the check.  They just can't be bothered to look for it.  And the ex-tenant can't be bothered to ask the friend to look for it.  If we just knew that it had actually been looked for, we weren't be so bothered by this.  But no one on that end seems to want to take any responsibility.

 

I'm just trying to talk this out.  

[Carol in Cal.]

I'm not saying that it doesn't bite.  And I'm not saying that the tenant isn't being a jerk.

It does, and he is. 

[Storygirl]

Can you find a lost mail claim with the post office? I did this once for something that I was expecting that had not arrived, and the PO found it.

 

I think the PO is likely to deliver all mail to the address, no matter whose name is on it. I sometimes get mail addressed to my mom, for example, even though she does not live here and has a different name than the rest of our household. So it's unlikely that the PO still has it. But it might be worth it to try.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Ugh..well yeah I'd probably just pay it.  You could say well you did mail it and they claim to have not gotten it.  They could also say, you only claim to have mailed it, but there is no proof that you did. 

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Oh and maybe this time pay a bit extra for delivery confirmation.

 

 

[TranquilMind]

So say a landlord sends the refund of the rental deposit to a tenant that has just moved out.  Say they claim they never received it.  A new check needs to be sent, but the old one needs to be cancelled.  This costs 30 dollars.

 

Who should pay for cancelling the check?

 

The address the ex-tenant gave was a temporary address "with friends".  It's not clear if the friends are even still living at that address, but there is probably reason to believe the mail carrier didn't realize the ex-tenant was even at that address.  (So they might not have delivered mail addressed to that name?)

 

So maybe the post office lost the check.  Or maybe the friends took it and can't be bothered to deliver it.

 

Is this a cost of doing business for the landlord?  Or is the ex-tenant responsible for paying for the check cancellation?

 

Is the landlord even responsible for issuing a second check?

The Landlord only needs to demonstrate that he indeed mailed a check to the last known address.  Whatever happens afterward is not his fault.

 

If I were the landlord, I would see if the check were canceled online. If so, we are done.  If not, I would issue a new check, not bother to cancel the old one, but follow up on the old one for awhile and see if anyone cashes it.  If my ex-tenant cashed it, I'd issue a demand for repayment.  Otherwise, I'd let it go.  Checks are only good for 6 months anyway. 

[TranquilMind]

However, the law in our state says the clock starts ticking once a "valid" address has been given to the landlord.  This wasn't exactly a valid address, as it turns out.

 

The thing is, my guess is that the friends have the check.  They just can't be bothered to look for it.  And the ex-tenant can't be bothered to ask the friend to look for it.  If we just knew that it had actually been looked for, we weren't be so bothered by this.  But no one on that end seems to want to take any responsibility.

 

I'm just trying to talk this out.  

The tenant is responsible to deliver the "last known" (not "valid"- though I assume it is) prior to vacating.  Landlord is not responsible to track down tenant.

[TranquilMind]

Cost of doing business for the landlord.  It is the landlord's responsibility to deliver the check, and until it is delivered expenses belong to him.  Using some kind of signature requirement or delivery receipt service up front is a good move, particularly if the law sets deadlines on delivery of those funds, as it does in California.

No, it is the landlord's responsility to issue a check to the forwarding address, not ensure delivery.   Delivery is not his responsibility.  However, if landlord can independently verify check was uncashed, I would issue another along with a notice that any previous check is null and void. 

[readwithem]

I would wait till the previously issued check is void (3 months?) and then issue a new one.  Then you don't have to cancel the lost check.

 

That might motivate the previous tenant to suddenly "find" the missing check. :huh:

[Jenny in Florida]

Oh and maybe this time pay a bit extra for delivery confirmation.

 

When we move out of a rental, we have always received our refund checks via certified mail.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would wait till the previously issued check is void (3 months?) and then issue a new one.  Then you don't have to cancel the lost check.

 

That might motivate the previous tenant to suddenly "find" the missing check. :huh:

 

Although, are they really void after 3 months?

[SparklyUnicorn]

I looked that up.  Banks aren't obligated to honor checks older than 6 months. 

 

Then again, that doesn't exactly mean they will refuse.

 

Six months is a long time.  I don't know that I'd be amused to receive my deposit 6 months later.

 

 

[Valley Girl]

 

"I looked that up. Banks aren't obligated to honor checks older than 6 months.

 

Then again, that doesn't exactly mean they will refuse.

 

Six months is a long time. I don't know that I'd be amused to receive my deposit 6 months later."

 

 

 

 

I'd talk to my bank directly. I had to close and reopen my account when a check got lost because the stop payment was only good for a certain number of months. While banks may not typically honor checks after a certain period has passed, there's no guarantee it won't slip through the cracks and leave you on the hook for the amount even if you're past that window.

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

"I looked that up. Banks aren't obligated to honor checks older than 6 months.

 

Then again, that doesn't exactly mean they will refuse.

 

Six months is a long time. I don't know that I'd be amused to receive my deposit 6 months later."

 

 

 

 

I'd talk to my bank directly. I had to close and reopen my account when a check got lost because the stop payment was only good for a certain number of months. While banks may not typically honor checks after a certain period has passed, there's no guarantee it won't slip through the cracks and leave you on the hook for the amount even if you're past that window.

 

Although to me a stop payment should be permanent.  Otherwise, what would be the point? 

[flyingiguana]

Banks can and will pay checks after six months.  (I know - because I routinely have to cash checks from my mom with the wrong year on them.  She never knows what year it is)

 

The law, I think, only states that banks are not obligated to do so.  Nor, apparently, are they obligated to check and make sure they don't.

 

Stop payments are only good for 6 months.  You have to keep renewing them.

 

So, I've written to the tenants and told them that we will have to close the account and will not be able to send them a check until that account is closed.  Which means we have to wait for all the outstanding checks to get cashed.  Then open a new account and order new checks.  

 

I'm not really interested in keeping their money.  It just annoys me that they can't even be bothered to look for the check.  

 

It has also occurred to me that this would be a great scam.  Say you haven't gotten the check when you really have.  So you tell the landlord to issue another one. You end up with 2 checks.  You cash the 2nd as soon as you get it, then cash the 1st one after the stop payment order expires.  And while I might trust the original tenant of this couple, I don't really know her new husband.  So although it's a hassle, I'm thinking a new acct might be the way to go.

 

They will have to sign for delivery of the next check.  If that's inconvenient for them, that's not really my problem.  If some "friend" of theirs signs and they claim again that the check didn't arrive, also not my problem.

[Valley Girl]

quote name="SparklyUnicorn"

 

"Although to me a stop payment should be permanent. Otherwise, what would be the point?"

 

 

 

 

Exactly! I was really perturbed when I found out it was only temporary.

[SparklyUnicorn]

quote name="SparklyUnicorn"

 

"Although to me a stop payment should be permanent. Otherwise, what would be the point?"

 

 

 

 

Exactly! I was really perturbed when I found out it was only temporary.

 

gosh that is so dumb

 

I never knew that. 

 

 

[justasque]

...

 

So, I've written to the tenants and told them that we will have to close the account and will not be able to send them a check until that account is closed.  Which means we have to wait for all the outstanding checks to get cashed.  Then open a new account and order new checks.  

 

I'm not really interested in keeping their money.  It just annoys me that they can't even be bothered to look for the check.  

 

It has also occurred to me that this would be a great scam.  Say you haven't gotten the check when you really have.  So you tell the landlord to issue another one. You end up with 2 checks.  You cash the 2nd as soon as you get it, then cash the 1st one after the stop payment order expires.  And while I might trust the original tenant of this couple, I don't really know her new husband.  So although it's a hassle, I'm thinking a new acct might be the way to go.

 

They will have to sign for delivery of the next check.  If that's inconvenient for them, that's not really my problem.  If some "friend" of theirs signs and they claim again that the check didn't arrive, also not my problem.

 

I recently was due a reimbursement check from an organization.  It took them a while to process it, but I wasn't in any hurry.  Then I went on vaca, etc.  So a few months later I still hadn't gotten it - or at least I didn't remember having gotten it, but who knows, because I had a lot going on and I could have forgotten that I'd had it.  I didn't have a record of depositing it, but it could have gotten misplaced in our mail pile, etc.  So I asked them to cut a new check for me, if it hadn't already been cashed.  They looked it up and found that it had indeed been cashed.  I chalked it up to my over-busyness and middle-aged absent-mindedness.  But the organization lady had more trust in me than that, so she looked a bit further.  Turns out, the check got stuck to the next one, and they both were mailed out to pay one of the organization's vendors.  The vendor didn't realize the second check wasn't made out to them, so they deposited both checks.  Their bank, in turn, also didn't notice that my check wasn't made out to the vendor, so they cashed it.  Had the organization lady not gone to the trouble of looking very closely at the canceled check to see who had cashed it, everyone's records would have been off and we never would have gotten to the bottom of it all.  

 

All this to say - sometimes, when things to awry, it's my mistake, sometimes it's the other guy's, and sometimes it's a series of unfortunate events having nothing to do with either of us.   I find things go smoothest if I go into these things remembering that, and treating the other guy accordingly.

 

There's been a cost to you, but you've learned an important lesson for any business person - if you're mailing something important, send it certified mail, signature required, or better yet handle it in person and get a receipt.  Chalk it up to the price of experience.  :-)

[December]

I would if it would be worth looking into to see if every bank only will issue temporary stop orders?  If there is a bank that will permanently cancel a check for you, I'd switch banks.  That is just ridiculous they expect you to pay $30 or something every 6 months. Or cancel your account. Hopefully your tenants will get serious about looking for the check when they realize what a hassle it would be to replace it.

[Guest]

Landlord.

[QueenCat]

I'm not understanding why you have to close your account over this.

[Guest]

I have had to place stop payment on checks a couple of times and yes, it totally, completely stinks to have to pay a fee to make sure the check is not being nefariously used. But I agree with a PP - it is a cost of doing business that fortunately doesn't occur that often. I send certified mail, return receipt for anything that I can't be confident the recipient is above board.

[Annie G]

I'd rather pay for a stop payment rather than go through the hassle of changing accounts altogether. 

 

I can't really fault the tenant here- they gave what was their forwarding address at the time, so if the mailman wouldn't deliver the check it should have been returned to you.  It's a bummer that it has to be reissued but it's just a part of doing business. 

 

Do they live locally? Is there any way to meet them and give them the check while also asking them to sign a statement acknowledging that the other check is not theirs to cash? That way IF they cash it you'll have a pretty easy way to prove in small claims court that they weren't entitled to the money. 

 

Sorry you have to deal with it, though. 

[idnib]

I would chalk it up to the cost of doing business. If they took you to small claims court there would be no evidence you actually mailed the check, but at least they would be able to show they didn't deposit the money.

 

And I wouldn't issue a second check without stopping the first. It's a bit of a scam for people to say this and then cash both. They eventually return the money, but wanted the float to help them with whatever they needed some extra money for.

[cera2]

The check should have been mailed with signature confirmation.  If it was then it is the tenants responsibility to pay for the cancellation.  I would charge them that fee plus a fee to reissue the check (maybe $5...enough to cover the next postage and delivery confirmation).

[Tsuga]

If the landlord is this cheap over a $30 check fee, I'd hate to see the state of the house. :(

 

Whoever sent the check pays. I'd hand-deliver the next one. I'd also include the cost of bounced checks and late fees in the deposit if you're dealing with sketchy people.

 

If you have to send your tenants certified mail for checks of $30, maybe re-think your client base?

[Jenny in Florida]

So, I've written to the tenants and told them that we will have to close the account and will not be able to send them a check until that account is closed.  Which means we have to wait for all the outstanding checks to get cashed.  Then open a new account and order new checks.  

 

Is there a law in your state about the time frame within which a deposit must be returned? 

[Valley Girl]

 

"I'm not understanding why you have to close your account over this."

 

 

 

You don't have to close it if you don't want to. The problem is that a stop payment on a check is only good for a few months. If you don't want to risk the original check turning up and being cashed after the stop payment expires, you have to purchase another stop payment. (Where does that end?) Depending on the amount of the check and to whom it was written, having that check floating out there could come back to bite you. For instance, a lost $25 check to your best friend isn't likely to be a problem. If your friend finds it a year later, she'd just return it to you. But say you write a $300 check to someone you don't know that well. If the original check ends up being cashed, it can seriously mess up your account balance.

 

When I closed my account, the bank manager told me they'd recently had that very thing happen to a customer. She wrote a check for several hundred dollars for something. The check was lost. She reissued it. A significant amount of time later, the original check was found and cashed. Even if she was reimbursed by the person who cashed it, who wants to have other checks bouncing because of the unexpected hit?