Analytical Grammar/Beyond the Book Report vs. BJU DVD 9th Writing/Grammar/Literature?

[Dianne-TX]

I know these two are very opposite, but I'm trying to decide which one to use for my ds14.  Originally, I was going to incorporate Starting Points with LLATL gray book and a few literature choices with various lit. guides for his English credit.  But, it's not happening consistently and he can't suffer from my inability to be consistent with him.  I also have 3 other children, 12, 5, and 3 years old.  My goal is to get something for him that can be more independent and not rely so much on me.  So, my search has come down to these two options.  I understand that BJU is complete with the teacher on the DVD and assignments lined out, etc.  My question is if the Analytical Grammar/Beyond the Book Report option would be mostly independent, too?  I saw that AG and BTBR both have DVD's with lectures, but I can't determine how thorough the instruction is.  I like what I read about AG and BTBR, but I just don't know if it's what we can actually "do" around here.  Thanks for any insight you can give me.

[SebastianCat]

I can't help much with BJU for 9th grade, but we have used BJU's English (writing and grammar) for grades 1-6 and found them thorough but not very difficult.   In 7th grade, BJU switches to a much more teacher-dependent model of instruction, so we switched to AG in 7th.

 

My DS did AG and BtBR Season 1 in 7th grade, and he found it very rigorous compared to BJU, but he did it independently.   We did not get the AG DVDs, because the notes are written to the student with the intent that all of the tests are "open note," while BtBR comes with only a CD that contains both written and video instruction.    This year in 8th grade, he is doing Seasons 2 and 3 of AG but we are not doing BtBR because we have a different writing program.   Season 2 is very rigorous, while Season 3 is easy in comparison.   

 

I will say that AG and BtBR are written to be a middle school curriculum, and while they could be used in 9th grade, they are written to be spread out over 3 years in middle school.  If you were using them in 9th, I would think you could combine all 3 seasons into a single year.   I don't think the DVDs are necessary for AG unless you really want them.

 

BJU, on the other hand, is not a curriculum I would attempt without DVDs (or a teacher in a classroom setting) at any level above 6th grade.  

[Dianne-TX]

Thank you.  Your information is helpful.  I'm wondering, though, if AG/BTBR can be done independently easily or will it still require a lot of me?

[Dianne-TX]

I see that you are using IEW.  We used the SWI-A a few years ago.  Do you like the upper level options from IEW?  Can it be done mostly independent?  We used Write At Home last year and it went well.  I might look into that if I can get into a course at any time since I'm past the beginning of the school year.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I will say that AG and BtBR are written to be a middle school curriculum, and while they could be used in 9th grade, they are written to be spread out over 3 years in middle school.  If you were using them in 9th, I would think you could combine all 3 seasons into a single year.   I don't think the DVDs are necessary for AG unless you really want them.

:iagree: Note that I only have experience with AG.  I just wanted to say that AG is not teacher intensive.  I did spend a little time each week preparing and teaching the lesson and checking work.  But, not much time.  I could not allow ds to do it all independently because I could not trust him to be thorough and to not cheat.  AG did not have DVDs when we used it.

 

FWIW, I'll paste my review below.

 

Analytical Grammar website is here, The videos at the website do a great job of explaining the program.  AG breaks it up into 3 seasons/years.  Season 1 has 10 weeks of daily grammar work, then review 1x every 2 weeks.  Season 2 has 7 weeks of daily grammar work, then review 1x every month.  Season 3 has 17 weeks of daily grammar work and then you are done.  It can be completed in 1 or 2 years as well.  We completed the program as they suggest in 6 ^th-7^th-8^th grade with review between the seasons.

 

Season 1 - basic grammar (parts of speech, parts of a sentence, basics of diagramming)

Season 2 - advanced grammar (verbal phrases and subordinate clauses) (this completes the study of grammar)

Season 3 - application of grammatical knowledge to the rules of capitalization, punctuation and usage

 

Pros:

• Clear and concise
• Pick up and go (little to no preparation required from mom)
• Teach lesson on first day of week and student can work on their own for rest of week.  Only checking/correcting required from mom.
• Each lesson in Season 1 has a theme (American flag, humorous Johnny Carson story, women & math, Mexican-Americans, Martin Luther King Jr., Jewish Americans, fairy tales, etc.) which makes the lessons more interesting.
• Built-in review – new concepts are learned, but old concepts (ex. adverbs, conjunctions, gerund phrases) are never dropped.
• Sentences are much more complex than Shurley grammar.
• The review paragraphs are from real books (in other words, the sentences are not made up especially for grammar parsing).
• Novelty of getting a letter grade on test
• Comfort of letter grade for perfectionist mom (ds is missing some but still getting As/Bs)
• Student book turns into a reference manual when you remove student exercises.
• Erin Karl (author’s daughter) is very responsive to questions on AG yahoo group.

 

Cons:

• While I thought Season 1 was perfect, we could have used 2x as much practice/review for Season 2 (because it’s difficult) and 3 (because it’s detailed).
• Some say it’s expensive.  I spent $120 but will use it over 3 years.  It has been worth every penny in the TIME that it has saved me.

 

Disclaimer:  I have a master’s degree in Operations Research, which is concerned with all things efficiency.  Part of the reason I love AG is that it is the most efficient use of my time and my child’s time.  This leaves time for other wonderful things like math, history, music, and sports!  I imagine that if you are a good teacher, and you teach grammar year after year after year, you learn to make your lessons more and more efficient.  That must be with the author, Robin Finley, did.

 

[SebastianCat]

Thank you.  Your information is helpful.  I'm wondering, though, if AG/BTBR can be done independently easily or will it still require a lot of me?

 

My DS does all of the work independently, and I check his work.   I spend about 5 minutes per day on it.   I think the instructions say that the student could check their own work, but I really wanted to make sure he had a good understanding of what he was doing (and not taking shortcuts), so I check everything.  

 

I agree 100% with Sue's review of AG.   "Efficient" and "thorough" are two words that come to mind when I describe AG.

 

I see that you are using IEW.  We used the SWI-A a few years ago.  Do you like the upper level options from IEW?  Can it be done mostly independent?  We used Write At Home last year and it went well.  I might look into that if I can get into a course at any time since I'm past the beginning of the school year.

 

We have used SWI-A (5th grade) followed by SWCC-A (which we spread out over 2 years for this child's 6th & 7th grades).   He is doing the Rockets, Radar, and Robotics program this year, and yes, he is doing it independently.   I assign one lesson per week which is due each Thursday, and he is responsible for completing all of the steps in each lesson, following the checklist, and turning in everything as instructed.    He is already a good writer and was already familiar with the elements of the IEW program, so this writing program was more an exercise in managing his time for an open-ended assignment and less about the actual writing.   In that regard, I am pleased with the program.   So far (we are on week 11 of our school year and lesson 11 of the program), it has been pretty light, but I know the assignments increase in length and difficulty by the end of the year.   I do not plan to use IEW for high school (at least that's my plan at this point).   

[Dianne-TX]

VERY helpful!  Thank you!

 

:iagree: Note that I only have experience with AG.  I just wanted to say that AG is not teacher intensive.  I did spend a little time each week preparing and teaching the lesson and checking work.  But, not much time.  I could not allow ds to do it all independently because I could not trust him to be thorough and to not cheat.  AG did not have DVDs when we used it.

 

FWIW, I'll paste my review below.

 

Analytical Grammar website is here, The videos at the website do a great job of explaining the program.  AG breaks it up into 3 seasons/years.  Season 1 has 10 weeks of daily grammar work, then review 1x every 2 weeks.  Season 2 has 7 weeks of daily grammar work, then review 1x every month.  Season 3 has 17 weeks of daily grammar work and then you are done.  It can be completed in 1 or 2 years as well.  We completed the program as they suggest in 6 ^th-7^th-8^th grade with review between the seasons.

 

Season 1 - basic grammar (parts of speech, parts of a sentence, basics of diagramming)

Season 2 - advanced grammar (verbal phrases and subordinate clauses) (this completes the study of grammar)

Season 3 - application of grammatical knowledge to the rules of capitalization, punctuation and usage

 

Pros:

• Clear and concise
• Pick up and go (little to no preparation required from mom)
• Teach lesson on first day of week and student can work on their own for rest of week.  Only checking/correcting required from mom.
• Each lesson in Season 1 has a theme (American flag, humorous Johnny Carson story, women & math, Mexican-Americans, Martin Luther King Jr., Jewish Americans, fairy tales, etc.) which makes the lessons more interesting.
• Built-in review – new concepts are learned, but old concepts (ex. adverbs, conjunctions, gerund phrases) are never dropped.
• Sentences are much more complex than Shurley grammar.
• The review paragraphs are from real books (in other words, the sentences are not made up especially for grammar parsing).
• Novelty of getting a letter grade on test
• Comfort of letter grade for perfectionist mom (ds is missing some but still getting As/Bs)
• Student book turns into a reference manual when you remove student exercises.
• Erin Karl (author’s daughter) is very responsive to questions on AG yahoo group.

 

Cons:

• While I thought Season 1 was perfect, we could have used 2x as much practice/review for Season 2 (because it’s difficult) and 3 (because it’s detailed).
• Some say it’s expensive.  I spent $120 but will use it over 3 years.  It has been worth every penny in the TIME that it has saved me.

 

Disclaimer:  I have a master’s degree in Operations Research, which is concerned with all things efficiency.  Part of the reason I love AG is that it is the most efficient use of my time and my child’s time.  This leaves time for other wonderful things like math, history, music, and sports!  I imagine that if you are a good teacher, and you teach grammar year after year after year, you learn to make your lessons more and more efficient.  That must be with the author, Robin Finley, did.

 

[Dianne-TX]

Thank you for answering my questions.  You've been very helpful, too.  One last question, what do you plan on using for hs writing?  

 

My DS does all of the work independently, and I check his work.   I spend about 5 minutes per day on it.   I think the instructions say that the student could check their own work, but I really wanted to make sure he had a good understanding of what he was doing (and not taking shortcuts), so I check everything.  

 

I agree 100% with Sue's review of AG.   "Efficient" and "thorough" are two words that come to mind when I describe AG.

 

 

We have used SWI-A (5th grade) followed by SWCC-A (which we spread out over 2 years for this child's 6th & 7th grades).   He is doing the Rockets, Radar, and Robotics program this year, and yes, he is doing it independently.   I assign one lesson per week which is due each Thursday, and he is responsible for completing all of the steps in each lesson, following the checklist, and turning in everything as instructed.    He is already a good writer and was already familiar with the elements of the IEW program, so this writing program was more an exercise in managing his time for an open-ended assignment and less about the actual writing.   In that regard, I am pleased with the program.   So far (we are on week 11 of our school year and lesson 11 of the program), it has been pretty light, but I know the assignments increase in length and difficulty by the end of the year.   I do not plan to use IEW for high school (at least that's my plan at this point).   

 

[fourisenough]

I have no experience with BJU, so I can't compare the two. I have used AG with my older girls, and my DD10 is doing season 1 this year with a co-op class. She'll do seasons 2 & 3 with the same class next year. They will also do BtBR. When I asked the teacher how much writing is involved, she told me it is "negligible", though they are doing the 'full' program (on the two-year plan). Because of this, I've enrolled this daughter in Expository Writing 1 with WTM Academy for additional writing instruction and practice. My opinion is that BtBR would be too light to cover writing for a 9th grader, BUT depending on where this student is as a writer, please take this opinion for what it's worth (probably very little, since I don't know your student).

[Lolly]

I have used both. (Good grief, I have used almost everything out there at some point!) I prefer BJU. I did not find dvd's to be at all necessary for the grammar. (My kids had all done R&S before, so all was basically review.) AG was...okay. Something about it bothered me. I ran into an issue at some point. Something in AG just wasn't quite right. Don't even remember what it was, but the person from AG tried to explain their point of doing it the way they did, but it still just wasn't correct. They agreed, but there was some reason they did it that way anyway. Overall, I prefer BJU. I did not use their literature, however. I prefer whole books. Have not used the other lit you mentioned either. (Wait, that means there ARE things I haven't tried!!! Yaya!!!)

[Guest2]

We used AG with mixed success. My oldest daughte was in ninth grade and AG clicked when she started studying Latin at the same time. She taught herself with the DVDs. I tried to help, but I found it confusing . Other kids bombed with junior AG.