I don't think I'm doing Miquon the "right" way

[jkl]

The plan was for dd7 to do Miquon Orange and Red for 1st grade.  We are in the addition/subtraction section of Orange, and it's not going the way I'd hoped.  I'd envisioned introducing a concept to dd then letting her go free with the rods with me there to support or gently nudge her to discover important concepts.  Instead, dd seems to have no interest in discovering things on her own.  She simply wants me to show her exactly what to do, then do it (or stare out the window or talk about Disney princesses...whatever, she does not seem to want to play around with the rods).  I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong. Maybe I'm expecting too much from a first grader??  Anyone have any wisdom to share?

[happypamama]

I do know it helps to have the teacher annotations.

 

But also, my DD didn't care for Miquon. She's my free spirit, adventurous, story-telling, costume-creating, active child. I thought Miquon would be good for her because of the discovery aspect. Nope. She hated it. I think it was actually too open-ended for her. She didn't care about the little tricks and patterns with the rods. She has, surprisingly, thrived on Saxon and its no nonsense straightforward approach.

 

My second child thought all the little tricks and patterns and "what else could be the answer" stuff with Miquon was cool. He also likes Singapore. Go fig.

[Zoo Keeper]

I have one child who loved the rods.  Loved, loved, loved.  Miquon was fabulous for him and he was the poster boy for exploring math with the rods. 

 

Next boy--hated the rods.  Like your daughter, he did not want to discover anything.  He just wanted to finish the page and move on to bigger and better things.  So,* I*  modeled the concept using the rods, he completed a few problems (not using the rods) to show me that he got it, and we moved on.  If he got stuck, I would make him show me how to solve it (using the rods) but that was rare.  He thought the rods were a waste of time, that he could "figure this out with just numbers, for crying out loud!" :001_tt2:   (yes, those were his exact words when he was 7).

 

I ended up using the rods (and the teaching sections in Lab Sheet Annotations) to teach the concepts, but the main math he did was Rod and Staff.  He was much happier when he had direct and concrete worksheets to do. 

 

[rochenan]

I started using Miquon last year with my five year old. I never quite understood how the program worked. I let my son pick any two pages and those are the ones he did that day...so my advice might not be so helpful. A couple things to consider, does your daughter like the c-rods? Will she play with them if you just hand them over? Does she like to play with regular blocks and build towers? Maybe you could use educationunboxed and show her how other kids use the rods? I also wonder if having a story would be more engaging for her? Try using the characters from arithmaticvillage while doing Miquon. Polly plus adds gems. So pretend the blocks are gems.

Or it could be that she doesn't have much interest in exploring math or she already understands the concepts of adding and subtracting but isn't interested in playing with numbers. I would try adding characters and a story and see if it starts to interest her.

[MerryAtHope]

I don't think it's you at all--it may just be that the approach isn't right for her. I had one child who loved discovery-oriented learning. At age 4, one day she said, "I'm going to think of all the ways to make 9. Let's see....4 and 5 make nine. 6 and 3 make nine. 3 and 3 and 3 make nine..." She loved playing with Cuisenaire Rods and pattern blocks etc... My oldest, however, loathed discovery-oriented learning. He wanted direct instruction with incremental methods. He felt discovery-oriented methods specifically set kids up to fail (in fact, after a year of us wrestling with Miquon and then showing him a workbook which demonstrated through visual examples, he grabbed the Miquon book and said, "The writers of this math book don't want children to understand math!") 

 

I tried discovery-oriented methods in a few other subjects over the years until the lightbulb finally went off in my head and I realized...this approach doesn't work for this kid! 

 

Interestingly, the person who turned me on to Miquon ended up not using it after that for similar reasons. I love the approach and think it's such an interesting program, but it's not for every kid. And that doesn't make it your fault or the child's or the program's--but it's worth considering if the approach isn't a great match.

 

It could also be that in a year or two she'd do better with it, if you want to try it again later. OTOH, my youngest also enjoyed Disney Princesses, and she found those cheap workbooks for handwriting and math fun...

 

 

[Ellie]

The plan was for dd7 to do Miquon Orange and Red for 1st grade.  We are in the addition/subtraction section of Orange, and it's not going the way I'd hoped.  I'd envisioned introducing a concept to dd then letting her go free with the rods with me there to support or gently nudge her to discover important concepts.  Instead, dd seems to have no interest in discovering things on her own.  She simply wants me to show her exactly what to do, then do it (or stare out the window or talk about Disney princesses...whatever, she does not seem to want to play around with the rods).  I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong. Maybe I'm expecting too much from a first grader??  Anyone have any wisdom to share?

 

Do you have the teacher's lab notations? Because there are suggestions for each page. Also, you're going to have to sit with her and help her do that whole discover thing.

 

Also, some children really don't need manipulatives for arithmetic. Maybe she is one of those.

 

And also, did you do any prep with the rods before Miquon? I like to do Mathematics Made Meaningful before starting Miquon.

[AHASRADA]

Definitely watch Education Unboxed videos if you haven't already. Especially have her watch the one where the little girl is making a family with the rods, etc.

 

If the Miquon worksheets aren't working, you could try some of the activities in the Gattegno book http://issuu.com/eswi/docs/gattegno-math-textbook-1

 

If after trying different approaches, she still has no interest in the rods, maybe she needs a different manipulative. I highly recommend the AL abacus from Right Start.

 

Maybe in the end you'll discover, like some of the dc mentioned upthread, that she wants explicit instruction, not discovery. In that case, try MM.

[jkl]

Thanks everyone!  I did spend a lot of time over the summer reading the Annotations and the First Grade Diary and a million threads on here.  We started with some activities from Education Unboxed that she seemed to love (that's why I thought Miquon would be a good fit).  I do sit with her the entire time.  I'd never expect her to be able to do this as independent work. Hmmm.  I might give it a little longer, maybe do some more of the Ed. Unboxed stuff mixed in??  I have the feeling that we'll be moving to a more traditional program (I have Horizon K the 2nd half and that is about her level) and use the rods as manipulatives, but I don't want to give this up just yet :)

[jkl]

Definitely watch Education Unboxed videos if you haven't already. Especially have her watch the one where the little girl is making a family with the rods, etc.

 

If the Miquon worksheets aren't working, you could try some of the activities in the Gattegno book http://issuu.com/eswi/docs/gattegno-math-textbook-1

 

If after trying different approaches, she still has no interest in the rods, maybe she needs a different manipulative. I highly recommend the AL abacus from Right Start.

 

Maybe in the end you'll discover, like some of the dc mentioned upthread, that she wants explicit instruction, not discovery. In that case, try MM.

Wow, I've never even heard of that book!  Checking it out.  Thanks!

[Coco_Clark]

I'm with others. I don't think you are doing it wrong, I think it might just not be the best approach for your kid.

 

One of my boys hated Miquon, would sit there like a lump, wouldn't play with the blocks, just wanted to know what to do and do it already!! I shoved him through orange and a few pages of red before giving up and putting him in MIF (which he adored). I wish I had faced reality sooner. Weirdly he's now doing well in a MIF/Beast mix (but still hates manipulatives).

 

My other kid loves Miquon. Literally giggles through it.

[Farrar]

I don't think there's a "right" way and a "wrong" way to do Miquon. It's a weird program that can be used a lot of different ways.

 

I agree with everyone that it might just not be the right thing for your dd. On the other hand, she does like the rods, she just likes more explicit instruction with them. The Ed. Unboxed stuff is drawn mostly right from Miquon's Annotations (and some other sources, but that's one of the primary ones). I would just do more explicit instruction with the rods and then let her practice with the lab pages. It's okay if you make it slightly less discovery based. And then if it's not working, it's not working. That's okay too.

[FO4UR]

You can also yo-yo between two programs.  Use Miquon as an introduction into new topics and concepts.  Use the Horizons you have as daily practice.  Just look ahead in Horizons and plan to intro the concepts in Miquon before you get to them in Horizons.  You might work in Horizons 4 days a week/Miquon 1 day a week, or whatever fits.

 

 

Guided discovery...ask lots of guiding questions.  "If I start with an orange and take away a black..."  "What if I had a purple and you had a light green, and we traded them in for one long rod?"   Pick a question, use terminology that will be seen in her math book (difference, altogether, etc...), and work through all the combinations and fast. Take 3 minutes to work orally like this before doing the rest of the work.  Her attention span is short, typical for a little one.  

 

Put some of the work in story form.  We are going to build a house for our fairy.  She is the height of a purple rod, so will she fit if....   We ran out of orange rods, so now we need to find a pair of rods to finish this side of the house.  Work like this for 7-10 minutes and then just let her play.  If she wants to continue playing with rods, great.  If not, fine.

 

Keep a quiet check on the time. 3 minutes is forever to a youngster, but a blink to us.

[....]

 I did spend a lot of time over the summer reading the Annotations and the First Grade Diary and a million threads on here.  

 

All of my kids have used Miquon - my 2nd grader is using it now.  The First Grade Diary is how I figured out how to use the program.  We spent a lot of time in the beginning just playing with the Cuisinaire rods.  My daughter would build forts with them for her Halo action figures and they would have battles in between the C-rods fortresses and the Base 10 plates (we have a bunch of those, too).   :tongue_smilie:   Anyway, you already have both the First Grade Diary and Annotations - which is good!  Also, kids get to the point where they don't really want to explore with the C-rods anymore.  My daughter doesn't need to use them with each page.  She's done lots of pages in her head - without the rods.  I give her a choice, but if it looks like she doesn't know what she's doing or it's introducing a new concept, I'll bring out the C-rods.

[....]

I would just do more explicit instruction with the rods and then let her practice with the lab pages. It's okay if you make it slightly less discovery based. And then if it's not working, it's not working. That's okay too.

 

:iagree:   That's what I would do, too.

[pehp]

She sounds just like my son!  Because he is a creative, artistic type I sort of thought Miquon would be a nice fit, but he hates the discovery method.  I love Miquon.  I don't find the Lab Annotations *that* helpful as a teaching tool, though I do look at them.  They are nice if you have no idea what a lab sheet is all about, but I tend to have an intuitive understanding of the conceptual thrust of each page.  Transmitting that intuitive understanding to my child is the tricky part!  In any case, my son does not love it, and I spent over a year beating myself up over this until I finally realized it might not be ME.  

 

We bought R&S last year to 'supplement' Miquon and he likes it better. It gets the job done.  I'm experimenting with a little MUS right now, to see how that goes, b/c it is also more straightforward but also uses the rods/blocks, which he likes.  

 

So we go back and forth between a more traditional approach and the discovery-based approach. My son loves a mastery approach, too. He doesn't like thinking outside the mathematical box.  I plan to continue Miquon b/c I DO think it is excellent, and I have seen the fruits of it--even after plodding along as we do, I see that my son's conceptual understanding of math is rock-solid.  He often gets answers incorrect on a sheet (for R&S, for instance) and then when I ask him to explain why, I see his conceptual thinking was perfectly right and he made a small computation error.  He has even started to create ways to do mental math that I've not taught him (grouping numbers and skip counting them, then adding in the remainder, for instance), and I totally credit Miquon for this.

 

However, we only take it in small doses.  :) 

[Ellie]

I don't think it's you at all--it may just be that the approach isn't right for her. I had one child who loved discovery-oriented learning. At age 4, one day she said, "I'm going to think of all the ways to make 9. Let's see....4 and 5 make nine. 6 and 3 make nine. 3 and 3 and 3 make nine..." She loved playing with Cuisenaire Rods and pattern blocks etc... My oldest, however, loathed discovery-oriented learning. He wanted direct instruction with incremental methods. He felt discovery-oriented methods specifically set kids up to fail (in fact, after a year of us wrestling with Miquon and then showing him a workbook which demonstrated through visual examples, he grabbed the Miquon book and said, "The writers of this math book don't want children to understand math!") 

 

I tried discovery-oriented methods in a few other subjects over the years until the lightbulb finally went off in my head and I realized...this approach doesn't work for this kid! 

 

Interestingly, the person who turned me on to Miquon ended up not using it after that for similar reasons. I love the approach and think it's such an interesting program, but it's not for every kid. And that doesn't make it your fault or the child's or the program's--but it's worth considering if the approach isn't a great match.

 

It could also be that in a year or two she'd do better with it, if you want to try it again later. OTOH, my youngest also enjoyed Disney Princesses, and she found those cheap workbooks for handwriting and math fun...

 

Do not overlook the fact that Miquon isn't only "discovery based." It is a process math; that is, it depends primarily on manipulatives. Not all children need manipulatives, and for some of us, having to depend on manipulatives would be a nightmare.

 

When I was considering Miquon 20 years ago for some of the children in my little one-room school, "discover-oriented learning" was a phrase that was not used to describe Miquon (or any other process math). The emphasis was always on the fact that it used manipulatives.

 

In the late 80s and early 90s, among homeschoolers it became fashionable to promote process maths over traditional maths (traditional being products such as R&S, Saxon [54 and up], BJUP, etc.). It went along with unit studies and denim jumpers, lol.

[MerryAtHope]

Do not overlook the fact that Miquon isn't only "discovery based." It is a process math; that is, it depends primarily on manipulatives. Not all children need manipulatives, and for some of us, having to depend on manipulatives would be a nightmare.

 

True! In our case, though, "discovery-based learning" was the common denominator that made several curricula not work here. (In fact, at first I thought it was the manipulatives--but over the years I learned that wasn't the core of the issue for him.)

[Btervet]

We do Miquon but I show DS everything first. I don't expect him to figure it out on his own. He's understanding and enjoys it so that is working for us. I don't care if it's the 'right' way as long as there is enjoyment and comprehension.

[Sarah0000]

After the first year of free play with rods with a few education unboxed ideas thrown in, I introduced DS to Miquon. I dutifully read the teachers notes, first grade diary, and used the lab annotations for the first few lessons. That went right out the window after a couple weeks.

 

Now its something that DS has completely free access to and he does whenever he wants, however he wants and he enjoys it. I do lots of other math activities, living math books, and sometimes Singapore 1 with him, and one way or the other he is learning and applying the information.

 

So maybe have the books and rods out as a toy instead of a school thing.

[jkl]

Thanks so much everyone!

 

We do Miquon but I show DS everything first. I don't expect him to figure it out on his own. He's understanding and enjoys it so that is working for us. I don't care if it's the 'right' way as long as there is enjoyment and comprehension.

 

 

I don't think there's a "right" way and a "wrong" way to do Miquon. It's a weird program that can be used a lot of different ways.

 

I agree with everyone that it might just not be the right thing for your dd. On the other hand, she does like the rods, she just likes more explicit instruction with them. The Ed. Unboxed stuff is drawn mostly right from Miquon's Annotations (and some other sources, but that's one of the primary ones). I would just do more explicit instruction with the rods and then let her practice with the lab pages. It's okay if you make it slightly less discovery based. And then if it's not working, it's not working. That's okay too.

 

These 2 posts especially made me feel much better!  I do see her learning from this program.  It's just not the way I'd imagined it.  I think we'll continue for awhile with me offering more direct instruction.  Thanks everyone for all the helpful info!