Cholesterol knowledgeable folks

[creekland]

Need some info here - probably easily found on google, except I'm now working full time and my "playtime" on the computer is cut back significantly - so if you don't mind sharing knowledge/opinions/theories/thoughts - or even links to make my search time shorter... I'd appreciate it.

 

What causes LDL to increase when a diet is probably decent?

 

I got blood numbers of all sorts back yesterday... this is post diet changes, losing weight, and other good stuff.  Sugar numbers went down (fasting of 98 - a number I haven't seen in YEARS!, H1 of 5.3 - down from 5.6 in March).  Almost all other numbers are fine - right in line with where they've been (only exception is Bilirubin which went up to 1.5 from 1.1 - no clue if there's a connection).

 

But LDL cholesterol?  That's gone from 141 last Nov to 174 in March to 183 now.   :cursing:

 

VLDL went down from 29 to 21 - both numbers in the normal range.

 

HDL went from 48 to 46 - so more or less steady, but technically slightly down.

 

Diet changes have mainly been eating a bit less and switching out a bunch of starches for veggies and fruits.  Meat levels have either stayed the same or gone down.  Nuts have gone up a little, but not tons.

 

The only other flagged bit is mean platelet volume of 7.2.  That's the same as a June reading, down from 7.4 in March which was up from 7.3 in Jan, so seems to be fairly steady in general - just a tad lower than they say is normal.

 

In 3 - 6 months I might have to ask y'all how to get sodium without chloride... sodium remains 2 notches from low and chloride has now increased to one tick from high.  I have to add what seems to be a lot of salt to keep sodium in range, and that appears to be increasing chloride...

 

But for now, I'm wondering what to change to work on fixing that LDL.  That number seems really out of line, so is my current target.  Ideally they say < 100 is good.

 

ps  A recent community vascular screening said my vascular age is 37 (real age is 48), so I don't think it's causing problems (yet).  I'd like to avoid problems though.

[Carrie12345]

Your main sources, if you've already cut most processed foods, are going to be red meats, eggs, and dairy.

There are some articles out there (maybe I'll get a chance to google a little later) that insist there's no proven *direct link between LDL and heart disease, but who really wants to roll the dice on that at this point?

 

Fiber can potentially lower levels, exercise is now being shown to help lower levels, raising HDL lowers LDL levels.

 

Nuts, fish, olive oil, legumes, flax, and avocados are all good HDL foods. I have a strong urge to put coconut oil on there, too!

[LisaKinVA]

Weight loss can play into LDL numbers as well.  If your weight is going up and down by 10# or more, it can wreak havoc on your cholesterol.

 

ETA: Meat, eggs, fish don't typically raise LDL.  Coconut Oil/Olive Oil/fatty fish can raise HDL.  

 

 

[Pawz4me]

Hypothyroidism, or even a TSH in the high normal range, can cause or contribute to an increase in LDL.

[creekland]

Your main sources, if you've already cut most processed foods, are going to be red meats, eggs, and dairy.

There are some articles out there (maybe I'll get a chance to google a little later) that insist there's no proven *direct link between LDL and heart disease, but who really wants to roll the dice on that at this point?

 

Fiber can potentially lower levels, exercise is now being shown to help lower levels, raising HDL lowers LDL levels.

 

Nuts, fish, olive oil, legumes, flax, and avocados are all good HDL foods. I have a strong urge to put coconut oil on there, too!

 

Eggs have increased significantly.  That can be a change I'll ponder.  Glad to hear nuts aren't a problem!

 

Weight loss can play into LDL numbers as well.  If your weight is going up and down by 10# or more, it can wreak havoc on your cholesterol.

 

ETA: Meat, eggs, fish don't typically raise LDL.  Coconut Oil/Olive Oil/fatty fish can raise HDL.  

 

Weight is going down - as it should - not up by > 10lbs at any point (recently).  Will google more about the egg bit later.

 

Could be a medication side effect.

 

No meds at all, so not an issue here.

 

Hypothyroidism, or even a TSH in the high normal range, can cause or contribute to an increase in LDL.

 

Opposite situation.  TSH dropped considerably (though still in the normal range).  This is something I was told to expect  :glare: so not a huge surprise.  I just need to figure out if I want to let that wait until after this 10 week assignment is over or discuss it with a doctor sooner.  Having just found out about it this morning and being busy at work, I haven't given it much thought yet - it's on the back burner.  LDL seemed more drastic and heading the wrong direction.

[Carrie12345]

Eggs have increased significantly.  That can be a change I'll ponder.  Glad to hear nuts aren't a problem!

 

 

 

 

It's specifically egg yolk, so you could really just separate most of the eggs you're eating.  I'm in love with eggs. But I haven't had my cholesterol checked in a while.  Oops.

[creekland]

It's specifically egg yolk, so you could really just separate most of the eggs you're eating.  I'm in love with eggs. But I haven't had my cholesterol checked in a while.  Oops.

 

That would take all the taste out of eating eggs, so not happening!  ;)  I'm willing to give up (some), but not degrade what I actually eat.

 

Great suggestion - just better for other personalities than mine.   :coolgleamA:

[Ellie]

My total cholesterol came down 100 points in two months when I started Atkins--high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate. I forget the exact numbers, but my doctor was impressed...and shocked when I told him what I was eating.

 

There is NO scientifically proven evidence that eating foods high in cholesterol (e.g., high protein, high fat) actually causes your cholesterol to be high. Paleo, Atkins, South Beach are all variations on a theme--higher protein, higher fat, lower carb.

 

Your doctor only tested TSH? Then you do not have anything useful in knowing what your thyroid function actually is. You need to have Free T3 and Free T4 tested, at a minimum. Yes, hypothyroid can mess with your cholesterol.

[creekland]

My total cholesterol came down 100 points in two months when I started Atkins--high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate. I forget the exact numbers, but my doctor was impressed...and shocked when I told him what I was eating.

 

There is NO scientifically proven evidence that eating foods high in cholesterol (e.g., high protein, high fat) actually causes your cholesterol to be high. Paleo, Atkins, South Beach are all variations on a theme--higher protein, higher fat, lower carb.

 

Your doctor only tested TSH? Then you do not have anything useful in knowing what your thyroid function actually is. You need to have Free T3 and Free T4 tested, at a minimum. Yes, hypothyroid can mess with your cholesterol.

 

Interesting and something I will need to look at and think about when I get time.

 

These were not doctor ordered tests.  These are open to the public health screenings from our local major health providers testing for all sorts of things from blood counts to electrolytes to, well, oodles of things (over 30 tests).  It's common for folks in my circle to have them done since the whole grouping costs $59 vs $80 for just the TSH test at the local lab.  It's an easy, inexpensive way to keep up with health checks IMO.

 

I don't have my actual TSH numbers here at school, but it was 2.something in March and is down to .99 now - lower than it's ever been, but still higher than the .3something listed as the low end of normal - a concern, no doubt, but I'm not sure it's cause for immediate action vs 'after this 10 week assignment is over' investigation.  Boardies can chime in if my thought process is off, of course.

 

The LDL part I thought I could work on as part of everyday life.  It's going to be more difficult if I can't pinpoint HOW to work on it!

 

Must go grade tests now... but thanks to all for the comments/thoughts!

[LisaKinVA]

If you are losing weight...just steadily losing...this will increase your cholesterol, as you start using your fat stores.

 

I wouldn't eat eggs without the yolks, either.

 

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/eat-run/2014/05/30/egg-yolks-to-eat-or-toss

 

Another thing to keep in mind, is that your LDL may look higher, but the type of LDL is actually different. Big fluffy LDL is actually healthy (and those eggs you love, help make the big fluffy kind) That's what your body needs to heal. But very low density LDL are actually the sticky particles. High triglycerides would tell you more than just LDL/HDL will.

 

This article goes into much more depth about it all. Happy reading!

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35058896/ns/health-heart_health/t/bad-cholesterol-its-not-what-you-think/

[wapiti]

What Lisa said.  Measurements of LDL and what is good/bad are controversial - particle size matters, etc.  It is possible to get much more detailed bloodwork done (my dh has) but I don't have any info beyond that.

[ktgrok]

keep in mind that your diet the day before the test can alter cholesterol results significantly. So it might be that simple. 

[creekland]

If you are losing weight...just steadily losing...this will increase your cholesterol, as you start using your fat stores.

 

I wouldn't eat eggs without the yolks, either.

 

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/eat-run/2014/05/30/egg-yolks-to-eat-or-toss

 

Another thing to keep in mind, is that your LDL may look higher, but the type of LDL is actually different. Big fluffy LDL is actually healthy (and those eggs you love, help make the big fluffy kind) That's what your body needs to heal. But very low density LDL are actually the sticky particles. High triglycerides would tell you more than just LDL/HDL will.

 

This article goes into much more depth about it all. Happy reading!

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/35058896/ns/health-heart_health/t/bad-cholesterol-its-not-what-you-think/

 

Thanks Lisa!  My triglycerides were fine.  Hubby's were high, but he's only started switching over to healthier - he had other "off" numbers too that we'll be looking at, but his LDL was lower than mine :glare: .  VLDL was fine for me too.  I think his was high.  Perhaps I'm actually ahead on this one?

 

I'm thinking I won't worry about it and will just see what happens the next time around with no real change - letting the body adjust.

 

keep in mind that your diet the day before the test can alter cholesterol results significantly. So it might be that simple. 

 

It could be, but we were pretty darn healthy the day before the blood test (more than one day before).  Our breakfast AFTER the blood test we won't discuss... ;)  It'll be a few months before the next one.  Any evidence should have disappeared by then!

[LisaKinVA]

Thanks Lisa! My triglycerides were fine. Hubby's were high, but he's only started switching over to healthier - he had other "off" numbers too that we'll be looking at, but his LDL was lower than mine :glare: . VLDL was fine for me too. I think his was high. Perhaps I'm actually ahead on this one?

 

I'm thinking I won't worry about it and will just see what happens the next time around with no real change - letting the body adjust.

 

 

It could be, but we were pretty darn healthy the day before the blood test (more than one day before). Our breakfast AFTER the blood test we won't discuss... ;) It'll be a few months before the next one. Any evidence should have disappeared by then!

If your triglycerides were fine and your vldl fine, you probably just have more fluffy stuff. I know there is a formula to really run the numbers, but it will take me a little longer to dig it up. About all I really could suggest at this point, would be to eat more guacamole (try to concentrate on raising your hdl), and try to walk briskly at least 30 minutes a day (regular exercise will lower ldl and raise hdl, as was mentioned earlier). Beyond that, I'm thinking you are probably in the clear, and don't have reason to worry.

[applethyme]

Slo-niacin also will help make the vldl more fluffy.  My husband went from having the smallest particle size to the bigger, fluffy and better for you kind in six months by adding slo-niacin. 

[Ellie]

Interesting and something I will need to look at and think about when I get time.

 

These were not doctor ordered tests.  These are open to the public health screenings from our local major health providers testing for all sorts of things from blood counts to electrolytes to, well, oodles of things (over 30 tests).  It's common for folks in my circle to have them done since the whole grouping costs $59 vs $80 for just the TSH test at the local lab.  It's an easy, inexpensive way to keep up with health checks IMO.

 

I don't have my actual TSH numbers here at school, but it was 2.something in March and is down to .99 now - lower than it's ever been, but still higher than the .3something listed as the low end of normal - a concern, no doubt, but I'm not sure it's cause for immediate action vs 'after this 10 week assignment is over' investigation.  Boardies can chime in if my thought process is off, of course.

 

The LDL part I thought I could work on as part of everyday life.  It's going to be more difficult if I can't pinpoint HOW to work on it!

 

Must go grade tests now... but thanks to all for the comments/thoughts!

 

You will want to focus more on Free T3 and Free T4 than on TSH (which should be as close to 0 as possible). TSH does not actually indicate thyroid function, even though it has become the gold standard. ::rolls eyes::

 

How do you work on LDL? Do Atkins/Paleo/South Beach. It will take care of itself. :-)

[creekland]

Slo-niacin also will help make the vldl more fluffy.  My husband went from having the smallest particle size to the bigger, fluffy and better for you kind in six months by adding slo-niacin. 

 

Thanks!  Upon getting home and looking at hubby's numbers (and trends) with him, he's got more worries/issues than I do (not just cholesterol).  I even suggested the D----- word to him.  Time will tell if he actually calls anyone though.  We're not all that different in personalities. He's getting a later start in caring about his health though - and there are potential issues.

 

If your triglycerides were fine and your vldl fine, you probably just have more fluffy stuff. I know there is a formula to really run the numbers, but it will take me a little longer to dig it up. About all I really could suggest at this point, would be to eat more guacamole (try to concentrate on raising your hdl), and try to walk briskly at least 30 minutes a day (regular exercise will lower ldl and raise hdl, as was mentioned earlier). Beyond that, I'm thinking you are probably in the clear, and don't have reason to worry.

 

Walking briskly isn't happening.  That aggravates other issues going on - as does being sedentary (like grading tests today - must do that in smaller groups in the future!).  All exercise is going to have to be moderate and lengthy rather than short and brisk (or non-existent). 

 

You will want to focus more on Free T3 and Free T4 than on TSH (which should be as close to 0 as possible). TSH does not actually indicate thyroid function, even though it has become the gold standard. ::rolls eyes::

 

How do you work on LDL? Do Atkins/Paleo/South Beach. It will take care of itself. :-)

 

TSH is supposed to be as close to 0 as possible?  That's good to know.  I'll admit to thinking having it head toward the lower extreme so drastically was bad.  I really need to find time to look up more things - but since time is extremely limited for a bit - I'll also admit to loving having the Hive as a resource.

 

Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge!

[creekland]

Speaking a little bit about hubby... what are issues with a low anion gap?  Google tells us it's rare, but doesn't say much other than that.  Mine is right at the lowest "normal" level of 7 and has dropped there from 11 back in March.  His used to be higher too (last two readings), but has dropped to where it's flagged low.  I don't recall if it was 5 or 6 - sorry.  Could that be diet?  Or like TSH where low is actually good and no worries?

 

I also looked up TSH this morning and was pleased to see most sites suggesting 1 - 1.5 was optimal.  My .99 seems just fine in that light - making me think there's a possibility I've dodged another "guarantee" from radiation that the thyroid would be killed... No absolutes, of course, but it gives me hope that the body might actually fix the other issues given enough time too!

 

Ideally, next reading the LDL will be better - just for the peace of mind.  And whatever the bilirubin reading means...

 

Gotta get to school.  My "extra time" is definitely limited for a few weeks!

[creekland]

Actually... just adding a thought before I head out the door.  If both of our readings dropped from mid normal to borderline low or low, what are the chances it was just a bad test and not really an issue?  Perhaps it's best to just sign up for Jan's testing date and see what things look like then rather than assuming these results are correct and need investigating?  That would make more sense than something rare hitting both of us (unless it's good and due to our changed diet).

[LibraryLover]

Timely thread. Ellie, on TSH levels. Mine came back elevated - about 4.2. My doctor was not concerned, but that number, along with my continuing struggles with lower D levels, I am concerned. My D is up a bit, but I don't care for that THS level. Everything else looks fine. Any insight?

[Greta]

My layman's understanding is that:

 

1. Cholesterol levels will temporarily increase during weight loss, and will stabilize again once body weight stabilizes.

 

2. Most labs are NOT actually measuring your LDL, they are calculating it: making an educated guess based on a formula that uses your total cholesterol, but assumes average or typical numbers for HDL and triglycerides. So if your trigs or HDL are not average, the estimate can be way off. If your lab report says "calc" or "c" or something similar next to the LDL, that means they estimated, not measured.

 

3. LDL cholesterol is not a good indicator of heart disease risk. LDL particle count is, but most doctors never check it.

 

4. HDL (the higher the better) and triglycerides (the lower the better) are far better indicators of heart disease risk than either LDL or total cholesterol. I once heard an interview with a cardiologist in which he said that if your HDL is higher than your triglycerides, that's the closest thing there is to a guarantee that you won't have a heart attack.

 

I think your numbers are fine. If I were going to try to change anything in your shoes, it would be to increase your HDL. Over 60 is best.

[creekland]

My layman's understanding is that:

 

1. Cholesterol levels will temporarily increase during weight loss, and will stabilize again once body weight stabilizes.

 

2. Most labs are NOT actually measuring your LDL, they are calculating it: making an educated guess based on a formula that uses your total cholesterol, but assumes average or typical numbers for HDL and triglycerides. So if your trigs or HDL are not average, the estimate can be way off. If your lab report says "calc" or "c" or something similar next to the LDL, that means they estimated, not measured.

 

3. LDL cholesterol is not a good indicator of heart disease risk. LDL particle count is, but most doctors never check it.

 

4. HDL (the higher the better) and triglycerides (the lower the better) are far better indicators of heart disease risk than either LDL or total cholesterol. I once heard an interview with a cardiologist in which he said that if your HDL is higher than your triglycerides, that's the closest thing there is to a guarantee that you won't have a heart attack.

 

I think your numbers are fine. If I were going to try to change anything in your shoes, it would be to increase your HDL. Over 60 is best.

 

No Calc or C present anywhere, but if weight loss is part of it, then not much of a mystery either.

 

HDL (46) > Triglycerides (104)?  I've got a bit to go before they are even close... but Triglycerides dropped from 146 in March, so that should be a plus.

 

The new dietary changes in general seem to be quite good.  I'll admit to being pleased - and inspired to keep it going.

 

Hubby's a bit more on board too which I'm very happy about. 

[Greta]

No Calc or C present anywhere, but if weight loss is part of it, then not much of a mystery either.

 

HDL (46) > Triglycerides (104)? I've got a bit to go before they are even close... but Triglycerides dropped from 146 in March, so that should be a plus.

That's a significant improvement. This took some time (I think maybe 3 years?) but my HDL went from 65 to 95, and my trigs from 130 to 75. So keep up the good work, because you do continue to see further improvements over time!

 

The new dietary changes in general seem to be quite good. I'll admit to being pleased - and inspired to keep it going.

 

Hubby's a bit more on board too which I'm very happy about.

That's great!

[Ellie]

Timely thread. Ellie, on THS levels. Mine came back elevated - about 4.2. My doctor was not concerned, but that number, along with my continuing struggles with lower D levels, I am concerned. My D is up a bit, but I don't care for that THS level. Everything else looks fine. Any insight?

 

I would be all over that doctor for TSH that high. I say this as someone who has been under-medicated for over 20 years by doctors who only tested TSH. . ::bangs head on keyboard::

 

Define "fine."

 

If your doctor only tested TSH, then he doesn't know how your thyroid is actually functioning. Here is the minimum that should be tested:

 

TSH (optimal level: .5 - 1.5)

Free T3 (optimal level: 3.7-4.2)

Free T4 (optimal level: 1.3 - 2.8)

Reverse T3

TPO, TgAB and TSI Antibodies

Vitamin D

 

Some people feel fine if their levels are not *optimal;* most do not. If you can convince him to test at least Free T3 and Free T4 and they come back at less-than-optimal levels, you will then have to fight the battle to (1) get natural desiccated liver [NDL] meds such as Armour, and (2) get a high enough dosage to bring your levels to optimal. Good luck with that.  [see my comment above. :glare: ]

[Liz CA]

http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2007/5/report_vap/Page-01

 

Here is a better explanation regarding the VAP test than I could attempt. I had mine done at my naturopath and it turned out I have large, buoyant particles which are way better than small and sticky.

 

To raise your HDL: Eat salmon, sardines, butter from grass-fed cows i.e Kerrygold or similar as well as cook more with olive oil and coconut oil.

For a good choice of salt, try Celtic Sea Salt or "Real Salt" by Redmond.

[creekland]

http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2007/5/report_vap/Page-01

 

Here is a better explanation regarding the VAP test than I could attempt. I had mine done at my naturopath and it turned out I have large, buoyant particles which are way better than small and sticky.

 

To raise your HDL: Eat salmon, sardines, butter from grass-fed cows i.e Kerrygold or similar as well as cook more with olive oil and coconut oil.

For a good choice of salt, try Celtic Sea Salt or "Real Salt" by Redmond.

 

I'll have to read the link after school in order to get anything done/looked at this morning, but thanks in advance!

 

We already eat salmon, but I'll step up the frequency a bit.  Sardines aren't happening... Why is grass fed different than regular butter?  Olive oil is my mainstay for cooking, though I'll swap to corn oil for things like boiling pasta (less frequent now that we've cut many starches).  Sea salt is my natural salt and I feel I use tons of it to stay feeling well.  Hubby uses far, far less and has higher sodium levels.  It's a good thing I like salty foods!

[kiana]

I'll have to read the link after school in order to get anything done/looked at this morning, but thanks in advance!

 

We already eat salmon, but I'll step up the frequency a bit.  Sardines aren't happening... Why is grass fed different than regular butter?  Olive oil is my mainstay for cooking, though I'll swap to corn oil for things like boiling pasta (less frequent now that we've cut many starches).  Sea salt is my natural salt and I feel I use tons of it to stay feeling well.  Hubby uses far, far less and has higher sodium levels.  It's a good thing I like salty foods!

 

More favorable omega-3 vs. omega-6 profile.

[whitestavern]

More favorable omega-3 vs. omega-6 profile.

Same reason to stay away from corn and food with corn in it.

 

Kerry Gold makes grass fed butter and cheese. It's not cheap - I get it at BJ's - but I think it's worth it.

[LibraryLover]

I talked to my Dr yesterday. She ordered an iodine excretion panel, and we went over the other numbers. T3 and T4 are normal, but just, as is TPO Ab etc. Vit D better, but still low. I'm doing D3 2000iu/day now, up from 1000. See if this helps.

 

I was surprised by the TSH, as I feel good. I have a pretty physically demanding job, walk about 3-4 miles /day, have good energy, and have lost and kept weight off ( with only slight fluctuation in summer).

 

I'd like to get to the bottom of this. Thanks for the push.

 

I would be all over that doctor for TSH that high. I say this as someone who has been under-medicated for over 20 years by doctors who only tested TSH. . ::bangs head on keyboard::

 

Define "fine."

 

If your doctor only tested TSH, then he doesn't know how your thyroid is actually functioning. Here is the minimum that should be tested:

 

TSH (optimal level: .5 - 1.5)

Free T3 (optimal level: 3.7-4.2)

Free T4 (optimal level: 1.3 - 2.8)

Reverse T3

TPO, TgAB and TSI Antibodies

Vitamin D

 

Some people feel fine if their levels are not *optimal;* most do not. If you can convince him to test at least Free T3 and Free T4 and they come back at less-than-optimal levels, you will then have to fight the battle to (1) get natural desiccated liver [NDL] meds such as Armour, and (2) get a high enough dosage to bring your levels to optimal. Good luck with that. [see my comment above. :glare: ]