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Homeschooling ethics?


Susan in TN
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Homeschooling Ethics?  

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  1. 1. See situation in post #1

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    • Depends
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Say you participate in a homeschool co-op or tutorial program in which students have the opportunity to participate in various non-homeschooling events or competitions along with public and private school students. Some of these events or competitions are divided or limited to certain grade levels.

 

Would you find it acceptable for a child/parent to lie about or "temporarily change" their grade level to be able to participate in a particular event, or to be in the grade level of the competition they prefer? This involves deliberately deceiving the event organizers and officials.

 

This assumes that the state or other laws or regulations require the designation of a grade level for students. If the child's true grade (via state or umbrella designation) were discovered, they would be disqualified. The child's grade is not actually changing, it is simply being written down differently on the event registration. Public and private schooled students must also adhere to the grade level requirements.

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This is actually a big deal in some of the circles I am in. Participation in various contests is the biggest reason that some parents choose not to grade skip their child. None of my kids are interested in these things so it wasn't an issue for us, but it can be.

 

My opinion is that you should pick a grade and then advance it like the rest of the schooling community does.

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Unacceptable. Dishonest. Cheating.

 

Now, if a homeschooler said, "I don't know what grade my child is in, because our school doesn't use grade levels, but he's 12," and the judges said, "Well, we'll count him as a 7th grader," and that benefited the team, then fine.

 

But you're talking about changing a previously declared grade level to gain an advantage, b/c hs'ers can say whatever they want about their grade level, unlike brick and mortar school students. Which I think is horrible sportsmanship and shouldn't be allowed.

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This is actually a big deal in some of the circles I am in. Participation in various contests is the biggest reason that some parents choose not to grade skip their child. None of my kids are interested in these things so it wasn't an issue for us, but it can be.

 

My opinion is that you should pick a grade and then advance it like the rest of the schooling community does.

I will edit the original to add that they are not actually skipping or officially changing their child's grade level, simply writing down a different grade on the event registration.

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Some competitions require a homeschooled child to be classified as the grade she would be in (by age) if she were enrolled in public school in the district you reside in. When in doubt, check with the organization.

 

If it's a matter of tinkering with grade level in a way you wouldn't want the organizers to know about, think about the possibility that you could disqualify your whole team, and have your child barred from future participation.

 

(ETA: Generic "you," not you "you."

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DS9 was allowed to participate at a higher grade level before our former charter school officially grade skip him.

By birthday cutoff he would be at a grade lower. So for one year he was a 2nd/3rd until the grade skip was finalised.

 

I am assuming that your scenario is the other way round, similar to redshirting but just for competitions. That won't be ethical.

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Some competitions require a homeschooled child to be classified as the grade she would be in (by age) if she were enrolled in public school in the district you reside in. When in doubt, check with the organization.

 

I selected depends and this is why.  I have a daughter who has always been ahead.  However, for almost everything outside of our home, we listed her as the grade she would be if she was in public school (age-mate grade) so it was with people her own age (we never did any group academics... that would've been different; sports and fun activities same age group made sense).

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Generally, very wrong. I selected depends because I think if the organization has looser guidelines then it may be fine - I know that there's a national competition that my kids compete in where we spoke last year to state level officials about which level my kids are required to compete in this year and they decided that based on age that either level could be fine but as I understood it, if we chose to do the lower level bracket, we were to not put down grade level since they would technically be too high a grade. If that makes sense...

 

I do have sympathy for how sometimes the rules as applied to homeschoolers are a bit less fair. In some places you cannot reclassify a homeschooler who really should be reclassified either up or down a grade whereas public school parents can redshirt their kids as much as they like to try to give them an advantage. But one of the reasons the rules are more strict for us is because of nonsense like this being rampant. :( I mean, it's behavior like this that gets homeschoolers banned from competitions or rules made that basically preclude their participation on a practical level.

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Generally, very wrong. I selected depends because I think if the organization has looser guidelines then it may be fine - I know that there's a national competition that my kids compete in where we spoke last year to state level officials about which level my kids are required to compete in this year and they decided that based on age that either level could be fine but as I understood it, if we chose to do the lower level bracket, we were to not put down grade level since they would technically be too high a grade. If that makes sense...

 

I do have sympathy for how sometimes the rules as applied to homeschoolers are a bit less fair. In some places you cannot reclassify a homeschooler who really should be reclassified either up or down a grade whereas public school parents can redshirt their kids as much as they like to try to give them an advantage. But one of the reasons the rules are more strict for us is because of nonsense like this being rampant. :( I mean, it's behavior like this that gets homeschoolers banned from competitions or rules made that basically preclude their participation on a practical level.

Is redshirting the same thing, though? Aren't those kids put in a specific grade and required to adhere to that grade? They aren't allowed to be in 8th grade at school, but participate in a weekend competition limited to 10th graders, are they? Maybe I'm wrong about that.

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I voted "depends." If you had an advanced child who would benefit more from competing with older students, I don't see the problem.

 

If you were entering the child in a level lower than his actual age/ability in order to give him an advantage, that's cheating.

I agree. Gifted students are frequently in grade (age) for legal purposes or age purposes but working at grade (age + X) in some or many subjects. So I'd be ok with shifting up a grade if that's the level the student is working at to compete. If it's ok with the competition. To deceive and grade down to give an advantage, not cool.

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Is redshirting the same thing, though? Aren't those kids put in a specific grade and required to adhere to that grade? They aren't allowed to be in 8th grade at school, but participate in a weekend competition limited to 10th graders, are they? Maybe I'm wrong about that.

They adhere to that grade but are one year older (and mature, experienced, etc, theoretically), than their class peers. So they have an advantage because of their age but are in the class with the younger kids. In our local PS, many kids are redshirted. DS was youngest in the class, just meeting criteria for school, and there were classmates 1.5 years older than him. Held back for the "benefit" of being older in class. Not all do that for those reasons of course, but a lot do.

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I agree. Gifted students are frequently in grade (age) for legal purposes or age purposes but working at grade (age + X) in some or many subjects. So I'd be ok with shifting up a grade if that's the level the student is working at to compete. If it's ok with the competition. To deceive and grade down to give an advantage, not cool.

What if the participant is deliberately deceiving the competition officials? That is what is in question here. The rules for this particular event are very strict. You participate with those in your same grade, not your ability or age or any other factor. Other events are open to participants regardless of grade, age, or ability, but not this one.

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Is redshirting the same thing, though? Aren't those kids put in a specific grade and required to adhere to that grade? They aren't allowed to be in 8th grade at school, but participate in a weekend competition limited to 10th graders, are they? Maybe I'm wrong about that.

 

I'm thinking of how one of the reasons to redshirt is to give a kid an advantage in sports and competitions that go by grade. So if you hold a kid back, then a kid who is a year and a half older could be competing against other 8th graders and following the rules. But because homeschoolers sometimes have stricter rules or don't have the ability to change grade early on as easily in some states, then it becomes that in effect, the public school kids can bend the rules a little and the homeschoolers cannot.

 

But it depends on the competition - some always go by age. Others go by a very specific age+grade formula meaning that any kid who was redshirted (or just legitimately held back or jumped a grade or whatever) will never have a chance to compete ever. And others let you choose to go by age or grade. Different rules in different things...

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What if the participant is deliberately deceiving the competition officials? That is what is in question here. The rules for this particular event are very strict. You participate with those in your same grade, not your ability or age or any other factor. Other events are open to participants regardless of grade, age, or ability, but not this one.

 

If the stated rules are that all participants compete in the grade level to which they are assigned (or would be assigned in public/private school), no exceptions, then deliberately writing down a different grade level is obviously wrong, IMO.

 

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Not for competitions. Absolutely not. It's cheating.

 

Perhaps for participation in a valuable experience that was otherwise difficult to obtain. (Example 'outdoor school camp' for 5th grade only, just now opened, to homeschoolers, child is in 6th, but not really too old to reasonably have been in fifth... Etc)

 

No big deal for unimportant things (such as, perhaps a picnic that the rest of the family was attending but one sib was a year out of the stated grade-range.)

 

Basically, the less important it is, the less seriously I would take the "limits".

 

Not for more than a one-year shift.

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What if the participant is deliberately deceiving the competition officials? That is what is in question here. The rules for this particular event are very strict. You participate with those in your same grade, not your ability or age or any other factor. Other events are open to participants regardless of grade, age, or ability, but not this one.

I think if the officials and rules were strict I would not enter (and don't think others should either). I would just see it as a life isn't fair example and forget about it. Or maybe see about legally changing grades if my student was gifted enough.

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What if the participant is deliberately deceiving the competition officials? That is what is in question here. The rules for this particular event are very strict. You participate with those in your same grade, not your ability or age or any other factor. Other events are open to participants regardless of grade, age, or ability, but not this one.

 

If the rules are specifically the grade at which you are being educated then it is 100% wrong to change it on paper just for the purpose of that activity.

 

I wonder, though... what if the kid is asynchronous and doing math at 5th, but reading at 2nd?  That's another reason I go with age-mates grade level.

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I don't care if the child is in too low or high a grade. The answer is, if the child has a grade, that's the grade.

 

However, I would not be opposed to a family simply not doing grades, advancing a child per subject at her own pace, and then stating the age only or grade-level of the subject in question on a form. In the latter case (grade level of one subject) you'd be obligated to note that you don't have grades, note the child's age, and say they are in subjects ranging from grades X to Y.

 

The only reason this seems even remotely do-able to the family in question, IMO, is the fact that they think they won't get caught.

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In this situation, I think it is POSSIBLY okay to go up a grade. Definitely not okay to go down a grade. However, I'd want to know more specifics about the situation, including how formal the activity is, before I would feel comfortable making a call like that. 

 

I'm pretty sensitive about honesty; the only reason I'd even entertain the idea is that I view homeschooling as fairly grade-fluid anyway. A kid might be doing 8th grade math, 6th grade English, and 7th grade spelling. Thus, he fairly reasonably could be categorized as any of three grades. Picking "a grade" is kind of arbitrary. If the child had gone to public school, he may have needed to be held back a year at some point, which would mean his number might not have advanced. But in homeschooling, you can advance the number how you choose.

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Grades are fluid, from August to December, across the country, as well, which is why I'd consider an "alternative" possibility. In the Seattle area, possibly all of WA, it's September 1 with hardly any exceptions. There is a test but it's very hard for a child to pass all of it (it is socio-emotional, math, reading, physical, etc. and basically the child must be two grades ahead in all subjects to be considered for advancement--after entering, the child may be skipped). Whereas in New York, amazingly to me, they can be four in November in kindergarten, and in other states, you must be 5 by August 15th.

 

So if that's the kind of "fluid" we're talking about, and if a family "advanced" their child but really might consider themselves as doing a gifted program at home... I could totally see the temptation. But in that case, they should stick with what they chose, or go through a process to change the grade level at home and with the registering agencies.

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In this situation, I think it is very unethical. For casual, unimportant stuff, I'd probably see if there could be an exception made, rather than lie about it. For a competition with strict rules, if I felt that a gifted child needed extra challenge, I'd explain that and ask for permission to register with a grade higher, but to choose a lower grade to make my child stand out more and have a better chance of winning? No way. That's wrong.

 

I tell my children, "character is how you behave when nobody else is watching and when it doesn't benefit you." If I lie about their grades to misrepresent them, what does that tell my children about honesty?

 

(Note: I have zero problem with parents listing their children as second grade one year and the fourth grade the next here in PA in order to skip standardized testing in third grade, because there is no arbitrary cutoff for what age is what grade. I feel that that decision is up to each family to decide what is right for them; I do not think it is a clear right or wrong answer. I chose not to do that with my own children -- they're listed as whatever grade they'd be in in public school, third included -- but I think it's a perfectly ethical choice.)

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We had a homeschooling mother try this with us. Rocket team members must be in 7th grade in school or the age equivalent if homeschooled. She tried to lie about her son's age not knowing that our sponsoring organization, 4H, would double check before the team registration was faxed. He was a tall ten year old.

 

We refuse to work with these kinds of parents so her son became immediately barred from team participation in the future. Sorry for the child, but we can't have cheating amd unethical behavior going on.

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Parents are role models for their children. A dishonest parent teaches the child that dishonesty is ok, even a good thing.

 

Lying about a grade level in order to gain an advantage over other competitors is, as already noted, bad sportsmanship and actually is anti-competitive. Good way to train up a future Lance Armstrong.

 

Lying about a grade level in order to place a child with possibly/probably less prepared students teaches the child, "I am a hot-shot! I am going to leave the others in the dust because I am so great (in comparison)!" If the result is that the child wins easily, he has lost the chance to know what his actual ability is. He does not even know about himself.

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I wouldn't lie either way, to move dd up or down. I wouldn't try to get her placed in a lower grade for a competition because it's obviously unfair. I also wouldn't lie to have her placed with students in a higher grade, because it's not fair to the other students, especially if it's a team competition type of deal. I don't know how many activities I've seen locally at the library and other places where people bring a child several years below the age guidelines saying, "Oh, it's okay, little Johnny is very advanced." And then everybody has a miserable time because, while Johnny might be working ahead in math or whatever, his maturity level isn't also several years ahead. 

 

If someone really truly feels that their kid just HAS to be in a different grade for an event, they should speak to the organizers and get permission.

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I voted that it depends. I just signed up my son for Mathnasium's math contest. The minimum grade for the test registration is 2nd. My son is in 1st grade by age, but working at at least a 3rd grade level in math. I put him in the 2nd grade contest.

 

Our homeschool charter often runs various field trips that have grade levels, and I have often asked for my son to be included even though he is technically too young. But, the charter is aware of my son's grade. I was asking for an exception to the general rule.  

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I say it depends. Deliberate deception to gain an advantage is definitely wrong. At the coach's suggestion, my oldest is running as a 5th grader in cross country although she is a sixth grader. There is no competitive aspect to this. She has almost finished under the maximum time for the time-keepers at 15 minutes for her mile run. Her best finish so far is 97th. The 6th graders run 2 miles while she can barely handle one.

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I voted that it depends. I don't have to tell the school district yet that I'm homeschooling B, but will have to next school year, at which point I may very well write "2nd grade" on his IHIP, even though he'd turn 6 in November of that year, so he'd be starting "2nd grade" as a 5yo (if I'd had to write an IHIP for him this year, I probably would've written down "1st grade"). So, if I signed him up for e.g. basketball, and there were minor competitions, I'd feel no ethical dilemma whatsoever about lying about his grade level and telling them that he's in K (this year) or 1st grade (next year). In many (most?) school districts in the US he'd be in pre-K this year and K next year, and even here there are a fair number of parents who red-shirt, and I suspect ones who hope to have little sports stars are more inclined to do so, so reporting him as K (this year) or 1st (next year) would be a disadvantage enough, as he'd still be young for grade.

 

It also depends on whether there *are* other competitions that don't care about the kid's grade level. I would rather not have my kids compete in things that go by grade level (because doing serious competitions by grade level is stupid, imo, because then you're basically encouraging combining redshirting and afterschooling, or, if you're homeschooling, just writing down the lowest possible grade level and teaching at a much higher grade level, which doesn't seem any more honest), and would much rather have my kids compete in things that go by age, which seems much more fair/reasonable/etc. Never mind that I think that "grade levels" are silly.

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No. Not acceptable. 

 

When ps and private school students are involved, they're basically forced to match their ages to standard grade levels.  It's sort of understood in that context that age and grade level are linked. When our homeschool art class kids compete at the County Fair Art Contest, we all have to take a minute and figure out what grade level each kid would be in if they had been on ps or private school and we put that grade level on the entry even if they're academically more advanced. 

 

If it were only homeschooled kids in the competitions surely the organizers would have sense enough to set the groupings by age, not grade level.  Maybe making age rather than grade level the criteria in the OP's situation would be better for the competitions to avoid this problem when homeschoolers are involved.  Maybe a meeting with the people organizing the event and letting them in on the efficiency of homeschooling and how grade levels are completely meaningless outside institutional school settings leaves loopholes some unscrupulous homeschoolers may be tempted to exploit in some circumstances. 

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We had a homeschooling mother try this with us. Rocket team members must be in 7th grade in school or the age equivalent if homeschooled. She tried to lie about her son's age not knowing that our sponsoring organization, 4H, would double check before the team registration was faxed. He was a tall ten year old.

 

We refuse to work with these kinds of parents so her son became immediately barred from team participation in the future. Sorry for the child, but we can't have cheating amd unethical behavior going on.

 

That said, if the kid had been in school, the kid might have been grade-skipped twice and actually have been in 7th grade at 10yo. Is it fair that public-schooled kids can be grade-skipped but homeschooled kids have to go by calendar age? Why not simply make all of them go by calendar age?

 

Not that I would've lied about it. I would've been open about it and pushed hard to have my kid included, if I believed that he should've been included.

 

ETA: not that I even would have the option of lying about it... I do not have any tall kids... B is about average for age (surprising since we're all *short*), and C is at the 5th-10th percentile of height-for-age, aka really short. I constantly get "he's EIGHT!? REALLY?!" Um, yeah... I can't help it that he looks like he's 6.

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Not acceptable, and a very real possibility of getting an entire team in trouble or disqualified.  We recently had to start checking this and asking for birthdates, after a mother declared her daughter in the same grade for three years in a row. :glare:  We can be a *little bit* flexible in the initial declared grade, but after that you need to advance them every year.  And it needs to be at least in the same ballpark as the birthday would indicate.

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I voted "it depends".

 

We have this issue sometimes, as we do year-round homeschooling.  Most of my kids' grades do not match their ages.  And all but one of them has a late summer birthday.

 

For church/social activities, we use the child's actual age (which more closely matches maturity level than grade level).

 

For academics, we use the grade that I assigned them when we registered with the county.  

 

However, dd11 and dd13 each completed two grade levels during this last calendar year.  Last year they were registered in 5th and 7th.  This year they are registered in 7th and 9th.  So dd11 was never "technically" a 6th grader and dd13 was never an 8th grader.  If there had been a competition this past spring that they had wanted to be a part of that was for 6th or 8th graders only, I would have not had a problem with calling them a 6th or 8th grader.  Even though it wasn't "true" as far as the paperwork was concerned, it was true by what they had accomplished.

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Deliberately deceiving for this purpose is always wrong.

 

 

DS was gifted in math, and young for his grade.  He started College at 15yo (Jr in high school) and finished Calculus 3 when he was 16yo .  If he were going to do a math competition, it would have not be fair for me to put him with the other 15/16yo kids who have only completed Alg 1, Geo. Alg2.     DD16 did Alg1 as an 8th grade student so she is considered on the advanced or honors track for math in public school.  She is just starting Pre-calc and will be 17 next month. He had finished pre-calc and 3 other calculus classes at her age  :blink: In his circumstance, I would possibly talk to the organizers to find out where to put ds, because it wouldn't really be fair to put him with his High school Junior peers. 

 

 

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Generally, deliberate deception is bad. I babysat for a kid long ago who graduated from public high school around 14. He was doing 8th grade math in 3rd grade (the year I babysat him). If he'd been homeschooled in an online format, his parents would've bumped him up several grades to be challenged, but maturity wise, he was not in 8th grade and could not have performed in a group setting with 8th graders. He would've enjoyed academic competitions probably at around a 5th grade level. Putting a 3rd grader in 5th vs 8th might be a "deliberate deception," but it wouldn't be to get an unfair advantage. (Side note: never ask a lawyer to answer a yes or no question. We can screw up even clear cut things with maybes and qualifications. I still get queasy thinking about the law school final from hell that was one sheet of paper with 20 true/false questions and a Scantron sheet.)

 

Competitions should have birthday cutoffs I guess as most sports do now.

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Some more thoughts: while I still do believe what I wrote earlier (basically, it depends), I was thinking some more about the OP's distinction deliberately deceive.

 

With this caveat, I think it goes into the realm of unacceptable. If one truly views their DS as a certain grade, I think it's inappropriate to say he is otherwise. If one doesn't really place much stock in the grade number, then that is where a judgement call comes in. I would say when in doubt, play it safe and honest.

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